Android Hell - 2021-02-18

1:55 PM

@Wipqozn "have rang"? :(

2:14 PM

@tchrist "rang" is correct, past tense, but "have" makes it super awkward.

MBraedley

"We have been ringing the bell" would be the better way to phrase that.

@Wipqozn grammarbook.com/blog/definitions/ring-vs-rang-vs-rung

if you want to use "have" and "to ring" in that manner, you need to say "have rung", but unless you're a walking dictionary, it's easy to make a mistake like that

We have been involved in an incident where the bell became rang

you rang, m'lord?

Jolenealaska

Covid-19 Live Updates: U.S. Life Expectancy Plummeted in 2020

> The drop was particularly steep for Black Americans, with life spans declining by 2.7 years. And communities of color are not getting equal access to vaccines.

3:18 PM

@Wipqozn I’m sorry, but that is incorrect. Ring is a strong verb in English, one that inflects via ablaut vowel-mutation deriving from the strong Class IIIa verbs of Proto-Germanic. Verbs that follow this same i→a→u inflectional pattern include: ring, rang, rung; sing, sang, sung; sink, sank, sunk; drink, drank, drunk; shrink, shrank, shrunk; stink, stank, stunk; swim, swam, swum; begin, began, begun.

Thus *have rang is an ungrammatical formulation unheard in educated speakers which should have been caught by the publication's editor so that they did tacitly license casting that speaker in a pejoratively doltish light. Unless, of course, this were the purpose.

@tchrist Okay, Tolkien

@Nzall I'm a native speaker of English. Sosumi.

@tchrist So was JRR Tolkien. I just wanted to make a joke about how you suddenly went all in on correcting grammar, English teacher style

@Nzall I wrote merely "have rang"? :( above. I was then mishypercorrected. That's what summoned up going full medieval on the miscorrector.

Publications have been known to deliberately introduce grammatical errors into the mouths of speakers whom they disapprove of. I was questioning whether this had been the case here.

@tchrist But you attempted to prove your point without citing sources, but presumably from some prescriptivist grammar book from over a century ago which has no bearing on modern english

List of English irregular verbs

3:28 PM

It's a rather wicked thing to do.

@Ronan Prescriptiwhathurts?

You want a paper, get a paper. And you're wrong.

This is a list of irregular verbs in the English language. == Past tense irregular verbs == For each verb listed, the citation form (the bare infinitive) is given first, with a link to the relevant Wiktionary entry. This is followed by the simple past tense (preterite), and then the past participle. If there are irregular present tense forms (see below), these are given in parentheses after the infinitive. (The present participle and gerund forms of verbs, ending in -ing, are always regular. In English, these are used as verbs, adjectives, and nouns.) In the case of modal verbs the present and...

Just because kids can't read these days doesn't mean publications should be deliberately making people they don't like look stupid.

Prescriptivest means telling people how they should speak, which is an antiquated view of grammar, and also it was a quote so I doubt the publication changed it from what was originally said

A: Is the past participle becoming obsolete? (I have went)

@Ronan No sir. Strong verb is a description of how inflections behave.

I think this is an example of "recency illusion," which you described very well as the situation where "increasing observation" is caused by "increasing awareness." From one point of view, the past participle could be said to be disappearing. But there are a lot of caveats, and the process has b...

A: Using "have ran" or "have run"

It appears to be just a grammatical error as suggested by the following source and as shown also in Ngram The past participle is run. I have run into resistance every time I’ve tried to solve the problem. She has run from her responsibilities. Regarding the problem that arises when forming th...

There are many more where those come from. Come to my site and we shall teach you.

I'm not saying that "rung" is incorrect, I'm saying that both "rang" and "rung" are in common usage and therefore both correct

> Regarding the problem that arises when forming the past participle, some people mistakenly use the past tense ran instead of the correct past participle

Good luck and good day.

Oh god is english SE full of prescriptivists?

Actually that's not surprising at all

Q: Usage question: "I hadn't drank any coffee before I lived in Italy."

3:34 PM

Ok, so as an English teacher, I know that in the present and past perfect tenses, the auxiliary verb have is followed by the past participle form of the verb. Using most verbs, I find that this is true for all sentences I have heard. However, on several instances, I have run into a native speaker...

@Ronan You don't know what that word means. I'm sorry. Therefore we shall not converse. You use it as a way to dismiss scholarship. That's wrong.

@Nzall Is this saying that they're making specific miners so that people who want gaming cards don't have all their stock bought out?

@Ronan yep

They're making a specific line of CMP miners for Ethereum

I guess that's a good thing?

Yeah, it is. It means that cryptominers won't use consumer GPUs anymore to mine cryptocurrency

@tchrist Enlighten us on what prescriptivism means then?

@Nzall I'm more worried about them selling things specifically for mining, on account of it being bad for guestures at everything.

Although I guess that's already happening

3:40 PM

@Ronan I thought the same thing, until recently, when I was pointed to a couple of articles on cryptocurrency miners. Cryptocurrency miners generally use excess energy from renewable sources that otherwise would be wasted, because that sort of energy is sold the cheapest

The hardware itself is causing as much waste as a small european country though

Like, if you have a hydroelectric dam that generates 500 MW in an area that only consumes 400 MW, then those remaining 400 MW can't be easily stored, so instead they use it to mine currency. The articles compared it to how Iceland used to be a key aluminum producer because they had a lot of bauxite and geothermal energy

@Ronan I'm not sure how they handle that, but I assume that could probably be mostly recycled

It's not currently though

3:54 PM

@tchrist Yeah I know, @Nzall explained it

3 hours later…

6:45 PM

@Nzall All linguistics is descriptive, period. Your question is easily answered, and has been, on ELU, where you will learn that the word prescriptive in a linguistic context is considered a rude pejorative that you should perforce banish from your lexicon unless your intent is to deliberately offend people. I have no interest in interacting with people intent on giving offence; who would?

Quoth resident English professor emeritus John Lawler: There is no such
thing as "prescriptive linguistics". There are no "prescriptive linguists".
You actually hafta understand something about grammar to be a grammarian,
and something about language to be a linguist. There are a lot of people
with strong opinions about certain types of constructions and usages, which
they peeve about constantly; but they are not linguists. Nor grammarians.
As P.J. O'Rourke puts it, "Opinions on language are as interesting as

I merely asked whether there was a political publication bias sneaking through here trying to make someone whom they did not approve of look bad.

@tchrist They probably quoted him literally. I mean, you of all people as an anti-prescriptivist should realize that modern languages are evolving and the phrases that were considered grammatically incorrect might be considered correct these days

The ring-rang-rung split might be less and less relevant as English evolves and rang and rung both become proper parlances in the same tense

@Nzall I know that using the past inflection where the past participle inflection is expected has gone on for hundreds of years, and that it is considered rural, dialectal, or uneducated. It does not appear in published works written in standard English because it is considered non-standard, and hence uneducated.

I brang this to your attentions because I thunk you misunderestimated what I've wrote.

@tchrist Look, I just assume they quoted him literally and didn't see the need to put in a [sic] to indicate it's a literally transcribed grammatical malconstruct

Now, could we please drop the discussion? I have no interest in debating English with an English major

I think this is getting a bit out of hand, and is most certainly off topic in this room. @tchrist you've got your views on language, and they've got theirs. Let's just drop it.

Agree.

6:53 PM

Agreed