The Frying Pan

Chicken eggs don't start developing until they are held at 99.5F. They will also stay viable, if they don't get too hot or cold, for upwards to a month.

So as soon as she starts sitting on them they all start developing together and hatch almost exactly 21 days later.

rumtscho

2:29 PM

If I had known that this machine makes such good ice cream, I would have bought it last year

I just thought that these prefrozen machines don't make too good ice cream, because everybody swears in the compressor machines

This is the plain Philadelphia vanilla I posted yesterday

I wanted to make it first, as a benchmark for all future ice creams

and it it great, only slightly overchurned (slight traces of butter)

A blueberry-banana sorbet mix is already cooling in the fridge

Sobachatina

@rumtscho My prefrozen machine works wonderfully.

rumtscho

@Sobachatina my new one too.

Sobachatina

@rumtscho Wonderful!

rumtscho

The cheap ones from Clatronic and the likes are available for about 30 Eur

But I decided to invest in a Krups for 68 Eur

Sobachatina

I have a cuisinart.

rumtscho

2:32 PM

It had mixed reviews on Amazon, which kept me a long time from buying

But I love the ice cream now

Very soft and nice

I can't wait for the sorbet

Sobachatina

I would like to pick up a spare bowl for it. In hindsight I should have waited for deals they run where you can get two bowls. But that was years ago and I didn't know that at the time.

We use ours almost every week in the summer.

rumtscho

Yes, the bowls are expensive.

I plan to leave mine always in the freezer.

Then I will be able to make ice cream on short notice.

I thought of a two-bowl version (they had one, for 93 Eur) but I don't have enough place for both bowls in the freezer.

I was even afraid that not even one will fit in my mini-freezer, but it is OK.

Sobachatina

@rumtscho That's what we do as well. The deep freezer in the garage is much much colder. I can almost get two batches with one bowl.

Almost.

I like experimenting with reduced fat recipes so we can eat them more frequently.

More protein and starch gels, etc.

They don't have to be quite as creamy because we can eat them as a snack instead of a dessert.

rumtscho

Well, you don't need to, completely. My leaflet says that the second batch only needs 4 to 6 hours of cooling. If your freezer is so much colder, and if you isolate it while churning, you might get away with wating one hour only for the second batch

Mien

I have a two bowl.

But we hardly use it.

Sobachatina

2:36 PM

Frozen yogurt is very good too.

rumtscho

But you would probably need a fairly bland batch for the first, so you don't warm it by washing.

Sobachatina

@rumtscho Good point.

rumtscho

Or wash it with salty water at -10°C or so.

Sobachatina

@Mien Poor neglected bowl. You need to start making ice cream for neighborhood kids. That will make you popular.

rumtscho

I can understand that you might want two batches at once with your big family (although your baby is probably not ice-ready yet). I am afraid that I might eat too much ice cream the next few days, if I am allowed to make a batch every 6 hours.

Mien

2:38 PM

Most kids here are my age. So no real 'kids' anymore.

Sobachatina

@Mien I think it will still work. Everyone loves ice cream.

rumtscho

@mien any age loves ice cream

jinx

Mien

Nah, just saying I don't have a lot of contact anymore.

Plus my neighbor has a "ice cream car"

rumtscho

Oh, I just wanted to say that if you go and knock on your neighbour's door with a portion of ice cream, you will regain contact

But I guess that an ice cream selling neighbour is a special case

Sobachatina

@rumtscho I hope he doesn't play the obnoxious music at home. That would get old really fast.

rumtscho

2:41 PM

@Sobachatina Music?

Sobachatina

Do they do that in Europe? Drive around town with annoying jingles playing so kids will know to come buy ice cream?

rumtscho

What kind of ice cream sellers do you people have?

You remind me of Hoodwinked, with the schnitzel cart with its bad songs

European kids are lured to the cart by the icecream, not by any jingles

And they don't really drive around.

Sobachatina

Something like this: youtube.com/watch?v=8uzQuHsqTXo

@rumtscho Yes, that's what they were making fun of.

rumtscho

No thank you, you said it is annoying. I will believe you and not play it.

Sobachatina

This particular one is just The Entertainer. The song itself isn't annoying- it's that it plays on repeat FOREVER.

@rumtscho I suppose if they are always sitting on the same corner then you wouldn't need the music. They drive around through the suburbs here.

rumtscho

2:45 PM

Here, they pick a frequented spot in a public garden, and place the cart there, and people strolling through the park buy the ice cream

Sobachatina

@rumtscho I do like the pedestrian culture in Germany. It is pleasant.

You can't reasonably walk anywhere here- things are just much too far apart.

rumtscho

Maybe you people need drive-through ice cream carts.

Sobachatina

What we need is public gardens and public transportation.

The ice cream carts will come naturally after that.

rumtscho

@Sobachatina There are cities in America which want that too, but can't reach the density needed, because the law prescribes a minimum of X parking spaces per Y square feet of living space and/or offices and/or selling area

Sobachatina

I am encouraged that the train has been so popular here. I hope they continue expanding it.

rumtscho

2:47 PM

I recently read an article on it, quite interesting.

Sobachatina

@rumtscho That is interesting. It is kind of a chicken and egg problem. You can't just switch one day because it takes years for enough people to switch their habits.

Usually they switch when they are forced to by gas prices or traffic.

rumtscho

We pay so much more per square meter of living area, but I think that the reduced commuting costs offset it.

Well, when there is an incentive to switch (like gas prices) and an artificial barrier to switching (like the parking spaces law), switching still won't occur

Sobachatina

Perhaps. I haven't heard of ordinances that prescribe a certain amount of parking space. That's interesting.

Austin has made accomodations for bicycle riders for a long time but they just recently built a commuter rail that goes from one suburb to downtown on existing tracks.

It has become very popular and they are discussing building more legs onto it.

Building it is expensive of course and it isn't clear whether it will actually be successful so it is encouraging to see the train full.

rumtscho

strangely, I can't find the article again

It was somewhere in my RSS

Oh, or maybe it was in longform

Yes, it was longform.

lamag.com/features/Story.aspx?ID=1568281

Mien

@Sobachatina Yes, that's the one.

Another often heard djingle here is 'mister sandman' theme.

Sobachatina

3:28 PM

@rumtscho That was very interesting.

Thank you.

rumtscho

@Sobachatina I'm glad that you liked it

It is one of those things that no one stops to think about, but which have far reaching effects on our lives (or yours, in this case - I am not that bothered by the population density in LA, except very indirectly)

Sobachatina

@rumtscho I'm slightly more likely to see Heidelberg again than I am LA.

At least judging historically. I have seen Heidelberg a few times and never been to LA.

rumtscho

Yes, but there are political decisions made in America which probably depend to some degree on it

Sobachatina

Indeed.

rumtscho

For example, Austin would be more likely to build a new train line if there are profitable train lines in other big cities

But do come to see Heidelberg again, it is a good idea, and worth it :)

Mien

3:34 PM

What's worth seeing in Heidelberg?

rumtscho

@mien it is a very beautiful town

The river and the castle are nice

and also, I live here

It's also the population. Many professors and students, and generally affluent society

Mien

You live in the castle? Awesome.

Jk

rumtscho

The only people who make any trouble are actually the American solders :)

Sobachatina

@rumtscho Yeah- people don't usually join the infantry because they are "professors, students, or generally affluent society"

Mien

There are American soldiers where you live?

rumtscho

3:41 PM

@mien yes, there have been Allied forces stationed throughout Germany since the end of WWII

Mien

Oh.

To make sure you Germans behave?

rumtscho

I think the Russians haven't maintained theirs since the Wall fell.

But we are in American territory here, and the Americans still keep their bases.

Mien

Btw, @rumtscho do you already have your glasses?

rumtscho

They have a base in Heidelberg.

It has barbed wire all around, and if you want to go in to watch a show of the soldiers' amateur theatre group, you have to bring your passport (normal ID won't do).

@Mien For more than a week now

Mien

When will we see a picture of you wearing them? :)

Sobachatina

3:43 PM

@Mien The military bases in Germany are strategic for logistical purposes. As a staging area for operations in Asia and the middle east.

Mien

I'm curious.

rumtscho

@Mien I haven't made any yet

I'll post links when I come around to it, but don't know if I will do it soon.

Mien

Okay, fine.

rumtscho

Self-portraits are unpleasant to make :(

At least without the Nikon-software.

Sobachatina

@rumtscho Just hold your mallet again- it'll make you more comfortable.

rumtscho

3:44 PM

With it, you can see the preview on your computer screen. Without, you only see the picture after it has been taken.

@Sobachatina That session wasn't especially comfortable. I made something like 300 shots.

I was either not in focus, or only half in the frame. Because every time I positioned myself behind the camera again, I risked not standing exactly where I should.

Mien

It doesn't matter if it's totally in focus or not

rumtscho

@mien for me, it does.

Mien

Perhaps, but the picture's for me!

rumtscho

Hello @yossarian

And congratulaitions on joining the club!

Now you are a blog author too

BTW, I took the liberty of adding "Part one" to your blog post title today, just to avoid false advertising

yossarian

Yes. I noticed that it was missing that.

And thanks.

It's a rarefied club I've joined: people spouting off on the internet.

rumtscho

3:51 PM

Hehe, but this is us spouting off on the internet

Which makes the club important for our community :) I am aware that the general public doesn't seem to care for it much

yossarian

Was wondering about that this morning.

rumtscho

about what?

Traffic from outside?

yossarian

Should we do some very intro level stuff, like Intro to Stir Frying

rather than steam injection ovens and bread hydration experiments.

Or are we going to keep with a very high level of geekiness / technical proficiency?

rumtscho

I think that there are lots of sites on the internet which publish on "just cooking"

It is good to have a niche.

Sobachatina

@rumtscho But this is us talking about it. As you said.

rumtscho

3:53 PM

And the community is already very geek-heavy.

Sobachatina

And often heavy geeks as well.

rumtscho

I would prefer the blog to not replicate stuff which is already found a thousand times over on the Internet. That doesn't add value.

It doesn't mean that all the articles should be about stuff which normal people wouldn't do at home (like the steam oven injector)

But I would only write on Intro to Stir Frying if it says things which a hundred other intros don't say.

Sobachatina

It adds value if someone in our audience hadn't seen it before- regardless of where else they might have found it if they searched.

rumtscho

There is a reason the Internet was build on hyperlinks - if there already is a good guide to stir-frying freely available, it is better to link to it than to write our own

Of course, if it is not freely available - for example, if all the good guides are found in the NBR and in the paid rouxbe videos, it is fine to retell it.

Mien

What we could do is a blog post consisting of a collection of links to pages that explain something well. Laymen don't know what's a good source/technique/recipe.

Or not a whole post, but a link per post if relevant. Like Soba might do.

rumtscho

4:00 PM

Oh. I just learned about Ray Bradbury.

I love reading him. I even called my main computer after him.

bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-18345350

Mien

Relevant:

imdb.com/title/tt0129634

rumtscho

@Mien Yes, I think that making each "higher" post relevant to readers with less exprience is a good idea.

@Mien Sounds worse than the average holywood comedy :(

I recently watched Zoolander. I was very disappointed.

I didn't see a single scene to make it worth. Just tired stereotypes from beginning to end.

Mien

Hahaha, what did you expect?

It's Ben Stiller.

rumtscho

@Mien I have heard people saying it's good.

Mien

I like that type when I feel like it.

yossarian

4:06 PM

@rumtscho, maybe you could think about doing an "interesting link" as a post each week when there wasn't a long form post up.

rumtscho

I didn't even know that it is Ben Stiller.

yossarian

Things like the experiment with cooking pasta.

or an intro to stirfry.

Mien

@rumtscho You should've ;)

rumtscho

@yossarian That sounds like a good idea

Mien

@yossarian I like that.

yossarian

4:07 PM

Or suggestions for interesting blogs like Khymos, Fire and Water, Michaels blog, etc.

rumtscho

Curating good links from our community every other week, writing a real post every other week.

yossarian

You could probably put together a back log of 10 - 15 quality links in 30 mins to an hour.

rumtscho

I would make more than one link per topic

Mien

@rumtscho Preferably links that are relevant to the upcoming blog post.

rumtscho

Ask people who have gone into a certain area to make the collection

For example, Soba has made lots of cheese - he must have 5-6 cheese links in his bookmarks, all of them good

@Mien Also an interesting idea

yossarian

4:09 PM

I could easily do one for molecular gastronomy.

rumtscho

Although we shuffle a bit the upcoming post

Mien

@yossarian How basic would you go?

I know hardly anything about it.

yossarian

@mien, i think that would be too hard. The goal would be to add an "easy" post, not another hard one. :D

rumtscho

@mien I would always include basic links in the collection

Also advanced ones, if the subject requires it, of course

yossarian

Medium to advanced. I'm not sure there is "basic" molecuarly gastronomy. :D

Mien

4:10 PM

@yossarian Oh, you meant a blog post about MG?

rumtscho

But it should be interesting for people who want to start on the subject.

yossarian

I meant a list of links for MG.

Mien

I thought you meant links explaining MG.

yossarian

I did mean that.

rumtscho

The ones who have started already will have found some links and be able to evaluate the rest.

So, basic should be included.

yossarian

4:11 PM

None of them are "basic". They are all fairly science heavy. It's the nature of the beast.

Mien

Hmmm, if you do it, and I've read and don't understand it, I'll complain. Okay? :p

rumtscho

@yossarian I am actually thinking of making a blog post on "basic" MG

yossarian

Fine.

rumtscho

Not much science, just easy recipes

For example, I discovered a great un-mayonnaise a few weeks ago

Sobachatina

@yossarian I would like to see that.

rumtscho

4:12 PM

Lemon juice, oil and avocado puree, with some lecithine

Much less fat than oil-containing mayonnaise

and it has the texture and feel of normal mayonnaise

without the food safety concerns of raw-yolk mayonnaise.

Sobachatina

Alton Brown has an avocado ice cream recipe that I've always wanted to try.

rumtscho

And it is super easy to make - put everything together and turn the blender on.

@Sobachatina I wanted an avocado ice cream recipe too. But I have heard from several people now that AB's techniques are good, but his recipes aren't

The booklet of my ice cream machine came with some interesting-sounding recipes, I must try them

Mien

I made his guacamole last week and it was so-so.

rumtscho

One of them was a tomato sorbet with candied tomatoes

I tihnk I will try that one soon

I only have to go to the market for better tomatoes.

Mien

Btw, I've written my idea on the ice cream spreadsheet.

Feel free to say what you think.

I'm not that good at coming up with ideas.

rumtscho

4:18 PM

@mien is reversing the colors done on purpose?

Mien

No, out of practical considerations.

I might do it right, if it works.

Sobachatina

@rumtscho I agree with that. I almost always try his recipes and then change them.

Like Shirley Corriher, he tends to have needlessly complicated recipes to demonstrate a point.

rumtscho

I am afraid we will get some indignant Americans who will cry about flag desecration :)

@Sobachatina how are your fellow Americans likely to react when they see a 4th of July icecream with blue stripes and red stars?

Sobachatina

Candied tomato!? I've never heard of such a thing but now I must have it!

rumtscho

@Sobachatina I'll give you the recipe when I get home

The fresh tomatoes get peeled and seeded, then covered in sugar, and put in a low oven for 30 min

Sobachatina

4:21 PM

@rumtscho Close enough. No one is going to mind.

Mien

@rumtscho It's the flag of Chicago, apparently. It's an ode to hobodave.

rumtscho

I forgot how he makes the sorbet part, but probably with normal pureed tomatoes.

Mien

I don't think it will be stars.

rumtscho

@Mien It's OK, I'm not going to do stars or stripes either

Sobachatina

@rumtscho Is the goal to cook down the sugar or just dehydrate it? If the latter I may find it to be faster in my dehydrator.

rumtscho

4:22 PM

I will just swirl simple syrup, colored, through the ice cream layers

Mien

I'd just try a topping.

Sobachatina

Do a candied tomato and basil ice cream and serve as an appetizer.

Mien

But hopefully different enough from Sobachatina.

rumtscho

@Sobachatina I didn't pay attention. I have never done it, and each recipe is given in 3-4 rows (on a beautiful layout with gorgeous food photography)

Mien

Plus isn't PBJ extra American?

rumtscho

4:23 PM

@Sobachatina I have already thought of non-sweet ice cream too

But it was more in the direction of black olives.

Or black olives and tomatoes together.

I must look more into cheese ice cream too

Sobachatina

@rumtscho Salty ice cream would be a shock. That would definitely need to be served in small quantities with a fancier setting.

rumtscho

I have seen several recipes with goat cream cheese or quark. But a feta ice cream would be great for me.

I just don't know if it would work.

Sugar makes ice cream scoopable.

I don't know what I would have to use to get enough dry matter in a salty ice cream. Although cheeses are probably a good start.

Maybe starch would work well too, gelato-style

Sobachatina

Sugar binds up water. You can remove the water and have more protein.

rumtscho

I could just throw in some xanthan and hope for the best.

Sobachatina

I would start with a frozen yogurt personally made with drained yogurt.

The candied tomatoes would be a shock of sweet and the olives a shock of salty.

rumtscho

4:26 PM

Hmm, frozen yogurt? Another style to go on my "must make" list

I don't think that the candied tomatoes would be oversweet.

Probably more sour.

Sobachatina

Not oversweet but it would be sweet when you get a chunk and everything else is salty or cheesy.

rumtscho

Oh, so many recipes to try, so little space in my tummy.

@Sobachatina I think that the tomato sorbet is sweetened too.

If you guys star that, it should at least use proper grammar.

Or rather proper lexic.

Sobachatina

I wasn't going to criticize your grammar.

rumtscho

But I was.

Sometimes I notice my mistakes after seeing the sentence typed, but don't bother to correct them (although I am sure that there are many mistakes which I don't even notice).

Sobachatina

The bar is higher for you since you aren't a native speaker. I feel the need to correct myself most urgently when it isn't obvious that I know better.

rumtscho

4:29 PM

But if it is going to be remembered with a star, it deserves to sound better.

Sobachatina

Apparently my most frequent typo is forgetting my negations. :(

I leave out the word "not" far too frequently here.

rumtscho

Yes, it has led me to wonder a few times (like right now)

Sobachatina

I am still thoroughly annoyed about the acid in pie crusts discussion btw.

rumtscho

I feel oddly drawn to the dose of vanila ice in my freezer, and the beaker of banana-blueberry base cooling in the fridge

@Sobachatina why?

Sobachatina

Not only because you were totally right but because it is wrong everywhere and I never noticed.

rumtscho

4:32 PM

You probably have read somewhere that too much acid damages gluten

Sobachatina

Not at all.

rumtscho

and forgotten the small part that it is only under a certain "perfect" value

I was not so sure myself after I read your comments.

Sobachatina

I knew that acid in bread aids the gluten but people talk all the time about how the acid in pie crusts is to make it tender. I never compared those two bits of data side by side to realize that they contradicted.

rumtscho

This is why I looked it up. I frankly thought that I was the one who has forgotten which way round it is, happens to me all the time.

Sobachatina

I hate finding out that long-held assumptions are false. It's uncomfortable.

But better than not finding out at all.

Mien

4:34 PM

So what does vinegar do?

rumtscho

People aren't that good at distinguishing what they like in a crust.

For example, Corriher evaluates "tender-chewy" and "flaky-uniform" on separate scales

Sobachatina

I'm considering bring On Food and Cooking to work. I wish I had it here all the time and I rarely read it at home.

rumtscho

and some things which aid one of the dimensions are bad for the other.

Sobachatina

@rumtscho Cookwise or Bakewise?

rumtscho

@Sobachatina cookwise - I still haven't started Bakewise

Sobachatina

4:35 PM

I need to read Cookwise again- I read it years ago and I would learn a lot more from it now than I did back then.

rumtscho

@Mien It helps gluten develop

Mien

Okay.

I never saw it in bread recipes though :)

rumtscho

In a pie crust, you want gluten not to develop in the butter-flour paste, but you want gluten to develop in the flour-water paste.

@Mien Me neither. Probably because the gluten in bread recipes develops well enough without it, and people don't want the slight vinegar taste

Sobachatina

My biggest problem that I've had with sourdough experiments is letting it proof too long as I would artisan bread. The gluten practically falls apart into goo- assumably because the ph falls below 3.

rumtscho

Whoever wants a slightly sour bread probably eats sourdough bread - it contains acetic acid.

Mien

4:38 PM

I'm thinking what pairs well with acid.

rumtscho

Adding vinegar to yeast bread sounds like cheating. And it could seriously disturb the yeast.

Sobachatina

@rumtscho "Bread enhancers" usually consist of citric acid and sometimes extra gluten.

Mien

If you would put that in the bread as well, you might have something interesting.

Sobachatina

Some of Shirley Corriher's bread recipes call for a crushed vitamin C tablet.

rumtscho

Ah yes, I remember I bought vit C tablets to try as an enhancer, Corriher recommends it

Sobachatina

4:38 PM

Jinx

rumtscho

I had trouble finding pure vitamin C tablets at all

They are probably too cheap for the drugstore to get a decent margin out of

Sobachatina

@rumtscho Yeah- the only ones I could find have various flavorings and colors added.

rumtscho

they were full of C+zinc, C+magnesium, C+echinacea extract and so on

@Sobachatina No, most didn't have flavorings. I didn't watch for color.

Sobachatina

I did try some orange flavored vitamin C in bread. It wasn't bad.

rumtscho

But there are effervescent ones too (which I hate passionately)

I found some "normal" ones, but they are depot

Sobachatina

4:40 PM

If we have leftover orange juice from breakfast I'll throw it in bread.

rumtscho

I hope that they will be released in the bread when I open the capsule

I should bake a bread with vitamin C sometime and see how it is

But I recently found out that I don't like over-glutenous bread that much

Maybe it is just dependent on what one grew up with

But after experimenting with 12% gluten flours, I find them somewhat rubbery and not nicely soft

I made my last bread with 11% gluten and some butter (it was Reinhart's Anadama bread) and liked its texture more than the high-hydration lean ones which needed so much gluten

Of course, I also kneaded it a lot (8 min per hand) so I had well-developed gluten, just not so much of it when compared to the starch amount

I wonder how vit C will work for homemade pasta

This is one dough where stronger gluten will probably improve the texture

Egg pasta, not durum-water pasta

Sobachatina

I wonder if citric acid would have the same effect as the ascorbic. Pure citric acid is easier to find.

rumtscho

Yes, I have lots of it. She somehow seems to think that ascorbic is better.

Also, citric has some taste.

Maybe you should ask an apothecary, if the drugstore doesn't have it.

Tomorrow is a holiday here.

I think I will go to a supermarket for ice cream or sorbet ingredients on my way home.

I wonder what to get

don't have any books here.

@Sobachatina what does your buttermilk-ananas recipe need? Anything special besides buttermilk and ananas?

Sobachatina

@rumtscho My recipe uses gelatin to make is smoother but similar recipes don't.

Sugar of course.

I think it may have added some acid but I don't recall. I'll look it up when I get home tonight. It's in an obscure book and I can't find the recipe online at the moment.

rumtscho

I have gelatin.

It is just that I want to make a shopping list now. But if you say it didn't have anything unusual, I will probably have the stuff available.

And in the worst case, I can buy it the day after tomorrow and make something else tomorrow.

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