“we understand that you cannot achieve happiness in life without going through some pains. Stress and anxiety are a normal part of modern life.” - I think you should cite a source for that, given that some people (namely the ultra-rich who do no work but make more money than many nations combined) go through life with virtually-zero pain and never feeling the same stress that most others do. Could you also cite a source for the quote? Also, why bring up anything about modern life if you’re asking what Epicurus (ancient Greek) meant?

"ultra-rich who do no work but make more money than many nations combined" - It sounds really strange, as if you grew up somewhere in North Korea.

I did not - I grew up in the USA. The people to which I refer should need no introduction. My point stands: many people do go through life without pain anything like those that many other experience for no particular reason; can you explain what you mean by your first paragraph?

What pain did you experience that you consider greater than Elon Musk's pains while growing up in South Africa?

Why my pains? Why not the endless pains of those who have to work 80-hour weeks to just barely feed their families and keep roofs over their heads, while he now gets to run the government and sit through board meetings and makes billions of dollars a year? What about the people in South Africa who are still there? If this is just another “good and evil are balanced” personal thing of yours, I’m going to VTC as such; otherwise could you clarify what you mean? You say that “we understand [this]” and the point I’m making is that not everyone does.

"and the point I’m making is that not everyone does" - I am asking because you are making statements from the point of an extreme minority. "No Pain No Gain" is about a pretty universal understanding.

Like we have talked about before, it is not universal. If you’re actually just asking about Epicurean philosophy, I don’t see why you need to include the first paragraph, and if you’re asking about something else, that should be clarified.

A simple and joyful life need not be pain free. Or vice versa. I have known people who have lived joyful lives despite severe pain.

"Why not the endless pains of those who have to work 80-hour weeks to just barely feed their families and keep roofs over their heads" - In New York State, the minimum wage is $15 - 80x15= $1,200 a week. Is this not enough?

@keshlam - Do you know people who raised their children without going through some pains?

Epicureans clearly thought about some specific pains, not just normal life pains. But I am missing this part.

@TheMatrixEquation-balance: No, minimum wage is generally not enough when compared to cost of living. And I'm not going to discuss pain/gain again in this context; see past responses.

You earn minimum wage if you did not go through the pains of learning in school. Who's fault it should be?

It is not every minimum-wage worker’s fault that they could not ever pay for good education or college. It is not every marginalized person’s fault that they didn’t feel safe going to school where they live. It is not every child’s fault that they weren’t even informed of the options they have available to them. That comment uses exactly the language that rich conservatives use to justify the destruction of social programs that benefit people but cost money; I don’t care about your politics, but don’t be surprised to get backlash for that.

Also, wasn’t keshlam’s point that even minimum wage isn’t livable? How do you reconcile your idea with the generationally-wealthy who have never had to work in their lives and still get whatever they want?

"I don’t care about your politics" - You did not answer - who is to blame. I can tell you my opinion. You live in a free country, where the government cannot interfere in the cultural values children grow up on (good books, good movies, good music). It would be called state propaganda. As a result, way too many kids in US grow up on a poor intellectual diet that is not enough for a healthy and happy life.

Throwing blame around is a great way to escape considering what to actually do about a problem. How we got here is less important than how we are going to get to where we want to be. Beyond that, politics really is off topic here except as examples of where philosophy has been or could be applied to governance, and what's the demonstrated or expected effects would be.

See The Epicurean Life

Also, if this is just you trying to express your opinion, the post should be closed as pushing a personal philosophy.

I have proposed a rewording that removes the presuppositions and leading questions, and focuses on the actual question being asked. I don't think I have removed anything essential, but feel free to reject the edit if you disagree.