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9:42 AM
Episode 130 of "CEH is a Joke"
> Q: Which of these measures does not protect against rainbow-table attacks?
1.) Use of a long and strong password
2.) Use of a salt
3.) Use of NTLM hashes instead of LM
4.) Locking of an account after 5 wrong logins
4, right?
WRONG! It's 3, because neither support Saltes
WHAT THE FUCK!?
How does locking your account after 5 invalid login attempts make rainbow table attacks more difficult?!
 
Who are the king of guys writing those questions?
 
> **Q:** A hacker gained access to an account with limited privileges. What can he do to gain admin privileges?

1.) Deactivate the Anti-Virus
2.) Nothing. He needs physical access.
3.) Escalate his privileges
4.) Start a DoS Attack
Answer: 3
NO SHIT
"Escalating your privileges" LITERALLY MEANS GAINING MORE PRIVILEGES
> CEH: To do the thing, you need to do the thing.
What kind of drugs are they smoking?
 
@MechMK1 Ethical pot.
 
Since they're an indian company, I assume Ethical Kush would be more politically correct
But damn, they better give me some of that stuff after my certification so I forget all of this
 
More like LSD I guess, to see thing that do not exist.
 
9:58 AM
Man, that'd be amazing though
Some LSD, some Tool in the background...
And those bonkers questions
I wonder if I would score significantly less than the control group
Damn, they ask about the EICAR-Testfile!
Seriously
EICAR? That's what I need to know as ethical hacker?!
 
Well, that's an ethical virus. It can't harm anything.
 
"Someone asks you for advice. They say on every boot, some undesired program launches. What do you first check?"
1.) BIOS Config
2.) Task Manager
3.) Autostart Entries
4.) DNS Cache
Gee, I wonder...
This sounds more like Computer Basics 101
 
I must admit I only hear badly about it, but I would never have believed the level to be so low, and so wrong.
 
CEH has very low quality
My boss said "You know, you need at least one certificate. If you don't have one, and don't want to waste too much time, get the CEH."
CEH is the worst. Starting from how the company presents itself, over the predatory certification scheme, ending with the content of the certification
 
10:50 AM
@MechMK1 some people don't even know that
:D
 
@JourneymanGeek What do you mean?
 
@MechMK1 lots of "IT" folks don't even have basic knowledge :(
They imagine booting Kali makes you a hacker
 
What do you mean? Are you saying it doesn't?
But I boot Kali every day?
 
Does the tool make the man or the man make the tool?
(or woman)
 
Hi @all
 
10:56 AM
@venter Hey there
@JourneymanGeek The man makes the tool and the tool does the job :D
 
@MechMK1 Thanks for the hint with the juice shop. I enjoy exploring the possibilities.
 
@venter What did you already exploit there?
 
@MechMK1 Not as much as i would have liked. I managed to login as admin with sql injection, also got a admin bearer token and his email this way. So i will change his pw next. But i'm not yet able to find the scoreboard
 
11:23 AM
@venter Keep trying. You can also read the OWASP Testing Guide
 
I think i found it. After i tried out to just change the url /scoreboard the site send a request to check if i finished the challenge. /api/challenges.
But it looks pretty raw
 
11:40 AM
 
12:20 PM
@MechMK1 Okay, i only got the api request for the scoreboard but now i found the real deal
 
@venter Nice!
 
12:59 PM
@MechMK1 Just solved this challenge "Give a devastating zero-star feedback to the store", but that one was easy
 
@venter Yes, some challenges are easy once you think of it. And you might be tempted to think "This would never happen in real life"
Well, I'll just say I once ordered -2 things in a web store :D
 
@MechMK1 Nice :D
 
@venter So yeah, you see that lots of automated vulnerability scanners just try to do "the busy work" for you
But it's still good to know how that works
And to identify their shortcomings
 
@MechMK1 It really is. Honestly i feel like a child, cause this is really fun to me
 
That's good. Enjoying what you are doing is the best part
I mean, I giggled like a child when I had my first "big" custom exploit
And I went to a co-worker and was like "Hey, watch this!", pressed enter, and BAM!
I can't tell you what "BAM" was, because of NDA, but it was cool
 
1:09 PM
@MechMK1 I can really relate
 
Did you check out the OWASP Testing guide I linked to earlier?
 
@MechMK1 Not in depth yet
 
No need to read it like a bible
But I like to go over it at the end of a test to see if I missed anything interesting
Or perhaps a not so interesting thing that still needs to be reported
 
@MechMK1 That's a good point. Currently i'm tagging along with the challenges because the provide a bit of guidance
If i may ask a question.
 
Yeah, that's a good thing to do. And sure, what do you want to know=
 
1:13 PM
Do you think i should look to get a job in security right away or go to university?
 
I went to university, but it's by no means the only way. It really depends on what you want
University has the downside that you don't earn any money while you go (assuming you go full-time), but the upside that you have some certificate that you know what you are doing
While applying for a job directly is a bit riskier in the sense of "Why should we hire you?", but it may be faster
The question you have to ask yourself is, do you want to spend 3 years of your life with very little income, just so you can write BSc after your name?
 
@MechMK1 Good point. I would opt into a hybrid model between university and working. In Germany we a the "dual Studium" where you're employed and payed while you go to university. It's like 3 months in university and 3 months in the company.
 
Or you can do what I do, spend 9 years of your life, get to write Dr. before your name, and then forget everything you learned because it is only tangentially related to your work in the future. It impresses people on occasion, but for the most part I don't recommend it.
 
What seriously? You are Dr. Mancone?
@venter Sure, if that's possible and you want it, why not?
Though if you study, you might as well go to Austria because literally every german seems to do that :D
 
I have a PhD in astrophysics. It at least involved lots of programming and data analysis, so it was by no means "bad" for my own development as a programmer, but sometimes I wonder if I would have been better off just going into engineering full time
 
1:20 PM
@MechMK1 God no, i stick in northern germany. It's cold and rain. So no reasons to leave the house all year
 
Then again the choices I made are the choices I made, and what's the point in second guessing things I can't change!
 
It's cool though
I would love to have a Dr. in my name, just to dab on my dad
Who, I kid you not, thought I was too retarded to pass primary school
 
Is everyone here German? Mech, and now Venter?
 
Mech is german?
 
(just kidding, I knew an Austrian dude once and occasionally called him German just to be difficult)
 
1:22 PM
@ConorMancone You're nasty
 
No, Ostmark
 
I'm just in the USA, and we don't know anything about geography
 
@MechMK1 And Austria is in the middle east, right?
 
Eh, almost. It's closer to Russia
 
1:24 PM
Anyway, I probably shouldn't go around trying to insult entire ethnic groups...
 
I do that all the time
Though I am probably not a good comparison :D
 
@ConorMancone As long as people understand, you're not serious about it
I held back my nazi jokes and it hurts
 
We've known each other for so long
He knows the rules, and so do I
 
@venter Oh yeah, that's right, you're new here. The sarcasm is strong in this chat, but that isn't obvious if you just drop in
 
@venter It's okay, you're in good company here
Oh my god, that reminds me of a funny story
One of my friends joined my teamspeak once while he was in university and his headset was not connected
So everything was playing on his speakers
 
1:27 PM
oh this is gonna be good...
 
Everyone around him heard :D
 
That's really good :D
 
lol, classic!
 
That makes it even better
 
I have to favorite that just to see if I can get you banned over it :p
 
1:29 PM
Yeah if I am away for 30 minutes randomly you will know :D
 
(Oh I can do far worse. Bad puns)
 
@venter In an attempt to actually be helpful though, I look back at my time in university as an opportunity cost. I got paid in grad school (so no loans), but at the same time my years there don't always count the same as experience gained as a full time job. If I had landed and started my career 5 years sooner, I might be 5 years "further ahead"
 
@JourneymanGeek Bad puns bad puns, what 'cha gonna do?
 
@MechMK1 presumably groan loudly
 
Of course, could I have landed a professional job? Who knows! Would I be in a better position in my career for it? Who knows!
Which apparently is to say that I don't actually have a suggestion for you. You never really know how things are going to work out in the end. There are jobs out there that require a computer engineering degree, and despite the fact that I'm very over-educated in a technical field, I still can't apply for those
Not that it is a big deal, but sometimes having a degree does help
In the end though life is pretty much a crap shoot anyway, so you give it plenty of though, make your best guess, and see how it works out 5 years later. :shurg:
Pretty sure that was the least useful life suggestions ever. If anyone else needs any suggestions I'll be here all week!
 
1:33 PM
@ConorMancone How to teach my dog to not drink my vodka?
 
:53405308 I'm not sure if Mech ever deletes his own stuff, so I'm guessing we'll see him again later... and I missed the comment too... so sad...
@venter Don't pour it into his water dish?
 
@ConorMancone But he look thirsty
@JourneymanGeek Maybe i print this and hope for the best
 
That dog is clearly having more fun than all of you are :D
 
Man I hate it when I forget where I stored my keys... I feel bad downloading another one and having multiple keys attached to my service account - it just screams "THIS DUDE AIN'T ORGANIZED". I swear I am...
 
1:37 PM
@JourneymanGeek I just found juice shop. I high doubt that
 
@venter Oh... I rest my case.
 
@ConorMancone You're keys told me otherwise!
 
2:00 PM
Yo, guess who's back?
Precisely 30 minutes after a now deleted joke, that either the algorithm or a very poor soul did not take kindly to
 
@MechMK1 Welcome back, how was the isolation?
 
I was laughing at it the whole time
Well, actually I fixed TS3 not working anymore
Which was a pain in the ass
But then I went back to laughing
 
Sound good to me
 
Imagine seeing dark humor and instead of laughing at it, you just get really mad and want to delete it out of existance
One day I got banned 4 times
And someone manually went through all my messages to find flaggable things
The system got so overloaded I got my own messages to review :D
 
hehehe
I usually don't react to dark humor...
 
2:06 PM
It's not everyone's cup of tea, I understand that
But I don't agree with the idea that "if something could offend someone in some way, then don't do it"
Because that would make the offendee the judge, jury and executioner.
 
@MechMK1 Oh that sound like Hitler
 
:D
 
Crossing finger to not get banned
 
If you read the transcript, you'll see me talk a lot about freedom of speech and such
 
I often find that ppl confuse freedom with freedom, if you agree with me.
I'm off for a bit, see you later!
 
2:15 PM
I try to be nice to everyone, and I usually tolerate those who aren't
 
@venter See you
@ThoriumBR Being nice to people doesn't exclude making dark jokes
 
I know... but I am so bad at dark jokes that I don't even try
 
of course, if someone asked me politely not to joke about a specific topic due to personal reasons, I would absolutely abide by that request
 
and when I try, or it does not sound dark, or sounds too weird and nobody gets it
 
And that's exactly what it is: A request. Asking me not to do something is not the same as forbidding me to do something.
@ThoriumBR You want to hear an anti-joke?
 
2:17 PM
that's a very good point... asking is different of forbidding
 
One of the "so bad it's really bad" category?
 
@MechMK1 sure, tell me!
 
What's red and tastes like blue paint?
Red paint :D
 
hahaha
people around here found it funny
 
You want another one?
What's small, green and circular?
A small green circle :D
Damn these are so bad holy shit
I heard that one first when I was like 8 and even back then I thought it was dumb :D
 
2:25 PM
My sense of humor is terrible - I'm just not funny. I also have a very dry sense of humor, and my favorite kind of jokes are the ones when no one else realizes you are joking (which has definitely made situations awkward more than once). Unfortunately I'm surrounded by potty jokes. All my kids, including my 3 year old girl, think that potty jokes are hi-larious!
I still remember my oldest's first pun (I usually hate puns). He made a game out of naming the gas stations as we drove around - that's a Shell! That's a Kangaroo! That's a BP!
 
UwU
You better start to find them funny, because trust me, those jokes are going to be here to stay for a while
 
I have kind of a unique sense of humor, that's quite localized to Austria
People call it "Schmäh"
And it's...not just joking, just the way of communication
 
Full of sarcasm, irony and...the thing
Exactly
Except it's not just limited to vienna
It's in all of Austria, in one form or another
 
So we're driving down the road and my 3 year old points out that window: "That's a BP! .... no.... thats a pee-pee!!!!"
and just started cracking up in the backseat for the next 5 minutes
It was hilarious and terrible all at the same time. His sense of humor hasn't improved in the last ~10 years
 
2:28 PM
Shameless promotion of my meta question:
0
Q: Do we need a canonical ransomware question?

AndersDo we need a canonical question about how to deal with ransomware, so that questions like this could be marked as a duplicate instead of closed as off topic? An answer could consist of something along the lines of: You should keep backups. Restore if you have them. Don't pay. Check these sites...

 
Hahaha, that's great!
Why "Don't pay"?
What do you do if you don't have backups, and there's 500 USD between you and the possibility of a wedding photograph?
 
my 7yo girl keeps making variations of my terrible jokes, and they sound even more terrible than mines...
 
The state of NY is trying to pass a law that would make it illegal for cities to pay ransoms
 
UwU
Because it teaches the people who make ransomware that it works and that they should keep doing it.
 
@UwU But...it does
It does work because people don't make backups
 
2:30 PM
people made viruses 20 years ago, and weren't paid for that...
 
If the lottery is the statistics tax, then ransomware is the backup tax.
 
UwU
Well their goal is to make money, right? Usually ransomware is for a ransom.
 
@MechMK1 Nowadays, chanses that you get your wedding photos back are not that great. I would recommend divorce and remarry instead so you can take new ones.
 
it won't change much... people will still don't make backups, and still lose things...
 
> It's not you, it's...my backups
 
2:30 PM
speaking of that, where are my backups?
 
@ThoriumBR I used to be much more sarcastic. Then my oldest started taking after me and took my "level 8" sarcasm and cranked it up to 12. I started dialing back my sarcasm hard-core after that. There's nothing that helps you learn more about what it's like to live with you then having a kid who does everything you do except more...
 
@ThoriumBR Hopefully off-site in a secure storage medium
@ConorMancone Sarcasm is very Schmäh
It reminds me of a carbaret bit by Michael Mittermaier
 
It'll be interesting to see how this new ransomware+blackmailware works out...
 
@MechMK1 I once had a 1tb hdd plugged to a raspi on my network... when I connected on my home wifi, my computer would sync to it, and late night raspi would sync to a vps I had...
but now I only sync my 2 notebooks with syncthing... I have to change that a little, add another node
 
"I was driving in Austria, and I was at a red light. I took a look at my map (reference to an earlier joke about how men never use maps), when the light turned green. I was too busy looking at the map to notice, so I didn't drive. In Germany, 0.0004 seconds after the light had turned green and I was not driving, I would have had a tinnitus after the driver behind me pushed the car horn through his driving wheel into the engine compartment.

NOT
SO
IN
AUSTRIA

The guy behind me got out of his car, casually walked up to me and knocked on my window - casually of course - and asked: "Master, ho
 
2:34 PM
blackmailware will be a little more risky for the operators, and costly too. they must have infrastructure for file upload, and things like that.
 
And I swear I laughed my ass off for solid 5 minutes
The fuck is blackmailware?
 
@MechMK1 they steal your files, encrypt everything, and ask payment for the keys AND for not publishing your files
 
@MechMK1 The latest trend in ransomware. It encrypts your files like always but also uploads them to the attacker. If you don't pay they release them.
@ThoriumBR Interesting point - hadn't thought of that.
 
Oh no, random people will have access to my music collection :D
 
Usually hurts more for businesses :)
 
2:36 PM
Yeah, true
 
Although...
 
Also, if any of y'all want my music in high quality flac, just ask
 
if malware authors leaks all your userbase, GDPS will bite you, hard...
 
Did you ever hear about this one...
That was very effective against individuals...
 
@ThoriumBR That's why, if you have a breach, you have to notify the relevant authorities immediately
 
2:37 PM
ransonware authors are the criminals, sure, but gdps is going after you for not protecting your users
 
@ThoriumBR Rightfully so
 
I'm kinda the go-to guy for tech issues in my company, and when those extortion emails went around I got a panicked email from someone in my company about, "oh my gosh what do I do???!!!". I responded quickly and calmly with some articles and assured him that he could safely ignore it.
But at the same time learned too much about his personal life...
 
@ConorMancone that is and old-ish scam... people go after leaked passwords, and spam everyone the same message telling the receiver that the scammer got something as secret as his password, so he installed sw on the machine and knows everything he does/sees... and ask a payment for not disclosing.
when ashley madison got hacked, a lot of their userbase got those nastygrams too...
 
Ah yes, I know those kind of e-mails. "Pay us money or we'll tell everyone what porn you watch". Joke's on them, I don't watch any.
Which, I guess, in today's society does make me kind of a freak :D
 
UwU
It's probably really scary for people who still use only one password for like 10 years :p Seeing it come up in their email from an old database leak.
 
2:40 PM
Meet the guy who is 25 and has a retirement fund.
@UwU And those people should be rightfully scared
 
UwU
I love finding out that people still do that. How??? how could you possibly think one password is a good idea???
 
"Because my banking website told me that Password!123 is very safe
 
UwU
correcthorsebatterystaple is my go to
 
Seriously, a website I recently used told me "Pick a word as your password. Then add a special symbol, then some numbers"
 
UwU
correcthorsebatterystaple! is my second
 
2:42 PM
Mine are like WP9D_7Yybu]#5m}/CTFj3$ftu[(c8qJZge*PR5a'
 
UwU
See I think long sentences are the way to go
 
For memorable passwords, yes
 
I have a password manager, and it generates passwords for me... usually 5-7 words, separated by dashes, dots, underlines... and couple digits around
 
UwU
I still write all my passwords on paper lol :p
 
i find it better than random gibberish to type when I cannot autocomplete...
 
2:43 PM
BricksOfSaltFallIntoTheQuietSea.WhoIsThereToCountTheWaves?Nobody.
 
UwU
^^ very safe
 
The trick is to visualize a scene
 
it's easier to type coconut-staple3-beach-kilo3 than WP9D_7Yybu]#5m}/CTFj3$ftu[(c8qJZge*PR5a'
 
UwU
exactly
 
@ThoriumBR Yes, but WP9D_7Yybu]#5m}/CTFj3$ftu[(c8qJZge*PR5a' is auto-typed by Ctrl+Alt+A
 
2:44 PM
@MechMK1 this very, very long pass is good to the master password
@MechMK1 you will have to type it if you connect to the IPMI console of your server that lost network connectivity...
 
Just use a paragraph from the play you had to memorize in high school. Problem solved!
 
so no auto-complete on that decades old supermicro ipmi java-applet from hell...
 
UwU
I'm not sure why having password like WP9D_7Yybu]#5m}/CTFj3$ftu[(c8qJZge*PR5a' is more safe than BricksOfSaltFallIntoTheQuietSea.WhoIsThereToCountTheWaves?Nobody.
Unless I'm missing something
 
@UwU One is completely random and unguessable
 
people watching over your shoulders when you type it on the clear?
 
2:49 PM
Whereas the other may be calculatable through clever uses of markov chains
 
almost nobody can memorize that one, but the bricksofsalt are easier
 
The BricksOfSalt passphrase can be analyzed by how likely it is that "The" follows "Into"
Because those are legitimate sentences
Whereas the completely random password I typed can be extended ad infinitum
XkYTG!gNbAEkR+smS8TZbgABtJL_TfgV8Z&ssQt_%XTM@CEHtJ*hk=ng62Wr72@A-=!mB=sjgf&9$sMa+!GQfxMG38x?wpsSqr_4N%$La*UHVcJ9zzf%yZSCW7p#r!hMq7j=Zw_uYy7hFMJ5Tt-w7u!6B3wmm@UZJPBnTpccC+RLUL&KuGgJ!w6R3Qmp+Px7yD3bZj9bD2!LuC4=K@8LuVkJ=$e&JVG$haJdHDSTR$^@Emt=RXzvwgV3&EUcFFhA
Good luck guessing this
Basically traditional passwords try to be high entropy, but short. They fail.
Passphrases are low-to-medium entropy, but VERY long. They succeed for the most part, depending on the inspiration.
True Random Passwords are very long AND have very high entropy. Literally unbreakable
 
dd if=/dev/urandom bs=256 count=1 | base64 -w0 creates very long passwords
 
When I use passphrases, I use the following schema, because it keeps most of the entropy while beeing faster to type and harder to read over the shoulder.
WIupps,Iutflwsm,bcikpmotetpwlbefstttahdtrovtsd.
 
UwU
XkYTG!gNbAEkR+smS8TZbgABtJL_TfgV8Z&ssQt_%XTM@CEHtJhk=ng62Wr72@A-=!mB=sjgf&9$sMa+!GQfxMG38x?wpsSqr_4N%$LaUHVcJ9zzf%yZSCW7p#r!hMq7j=Zw_uYy7hFMJ5Tt-w7u!6B3wmm@UZJPBnTpccC+RLUL&KuGgJ!w6R3Qmp+Px7yD3bZj9bD2!LuC4=K@8LuVkJ=$e&JVG$haJdHDSTR$^@Emt=RXzvwgV3&EUcFFhA this is an unbreakable password, I agree, but you won't ever catch me using something like this for any of my passwords ever. It just seems too ridiculous to be practical
 
2:55 PM
@UwU That's why you use a password manager
The password manager keeps all your passwords in encrypted form, and is protected by a passphrase, like BricksOfSalt
 
UwU
True enough
 
That's what I highly recommend for personal use
 
UwU
I'm very anti password manager on my computer, though
 
Why so?
 
@MechMK1 that's what I do... I have my pw manager generating 40-byte passwords for me, and have to memorize only one long password that I don't ever ever use anywhere else for it
 
2:57 PM
@ThoriumBR It's best practice
 
UwU
Just because even if the chance is slim to none, there is still a chance that someone can break into it. If I keep my passwords in a book, who's going to break into my house to steal it?
Though this is very much just paranoia on my part
 
@UwU But then you are forced to use passwords that are "typeable"
 
UwU
But long
 
Which makes it easier for someone to steal your passwords from everywhere else
It's a risk management thing
Also, you can have your password database on a removable medium, with backups where your book is
 
@UwU if you use a unique password for your manager, it is more secure than your book... losing your book is more probable than someone stealing your password manager and breaking the encryption. if you use a good manager, of course...
 
2:59 PM
Which means the database is only in memory
Sure, nothing is perfect, but this is pretty close
 
I use Enpass on my android, iphone, and linuxes... it have an encrypted db, and syncs only the encrypted db using dropbox or gdrive. it's very good, the encryption is sound, and have very good usability
 
UwU
New idea: get your passwords tattooed on you and just always wear long sleeves
take that hackers
 
It's better to encode them as QR code first
 
UwU
even better
cover your body with qr codes
 
Each one of them with a 0-day that fries QR readers
Like the grail room scene in Indiana Jones :D
 
UwU
3:02 PM
Now we're talking
 
thgen you forget which QR code which is
 
"One of these...is the real QR code. The others...are certain doom"
 
UwU
Oo good point
Label the qr codes with more tattoos
 
@MechMK1 for some reason I am reminded of the iocane scene
 
The wha?
 
UwU
3:03 PM
0
Q: Which is better practice: a keyring or a physical book of passwords?

AetherfoxThese days, it's not uncommon to have dozens and dozens of passwords for various sites and services. If you're using different passwords for each service it can be basically impossible to hold all the passwords in your memory. Some people keep a book with their passwords written down, and are oc...

people asking real questions
 
Princess Bride?
 
 
1 hour later…
4:16 PM
On a random note, this answer is amusing
1
A: Using IP as authentication

Soutzikevich Is it acceptable in this case to rely on IP as an authentication mechanism ? Yes, because performing an attack that will spoof a connection requires the attacker to be placed in a very very specific location along the path of communication. So you are safe from that. The above holds, assumi...

You have to look at the edit history.
The original answer and the current answer are literally completely different. Schroeder and I both argued strongly against his initial answer, and he argued his points to the death
Then suddenly decided to completely rewrite the answer. Normally I'm all "People edit their answers in response to feedback - great!" but in this case, he was so hard-core deadset against admitting he might be wrong, it just seems crazy
the comment thread was great but is of course deleted now...
I can't decide if he is just really good at changing his answer when presented with convincing arguments, or if he just can't stand downvotes. He also has another answer on this same question which he deleted after receiving a downvote.
 
UwU
Never seen a battle of that much green and red before
To be fair, if my question gets enough downvotes I just assume it probably wasn't worth asking / a better version of the same question exists somewhere else
 
5:17 PM
first answer: absolutely not, no way, never...
after the edits: of course you can, no worries...
 

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