The DMZ

AviD

00:17

@RoryAlsop you should get one of these. or 50. engadget.com/2015/09/03/…

Scott Pack

01:09

twitter.com/blastr/status/640305252781162497

AviD

hey @schroeder why did you reopen that question that was asking for sites for practicing hacking social networks? its a clear product recommendation request...

schroeder

@AviD I thought it was something different and was trying to sync up with him

@AviD but yes, I'll close it

My recommendation to use IRC/Twitter bots to accomplish the task could have been on topic as a non-product recommendation option, but yeah - he wants a pre-made cyber range as a classroom.

AviD

@schroeder yeah, thats a nice idea! and, as you say, it's a "how do I solve this" answer and not a "give me a product" answer.

schroeder

@AviD now I want to design one to include in my SelfPhish service

AviD

hehe, go for it!

HackMeBook

schroeder

01:21

@AviD I was thinking more of an adaptive AI to use as a bot on existing social networks

@AviD I use an adaptive heuristic algorithm for phishing emails, and now I'm sketching notes for a IM bot ....

David Freitag

02:11

Scottish pork taboo

The Scottish pork taboo was Donald Alexander Mackenzie's phrase for discussing an aversion to pork amongst Scots, particularly Highlanders, which he believed to stem from an ancient taboo. Several writers who confirm that there was a prejudice against pork, or a superstitious attitude to pigs, do not see it in terms of a taboo related to an ancient cult. Any prejudice is generally agreed to have been fading by 1800. Some writers attribute a scarcity or dislike of pork in certain periods to a shortage of pig fodder. == Donald Mackenzie's ideas == He gave a lecture on the Scottish pork taboo in 1920...

kalina

03:20

yay for home

bigyawn

yay for sleepses

TheJulyPlot

By home do you mean the DMZ?

Rory Alsop

08:01

Highlights of yesterday - the awesome Vulcan, the Typhoon, Red Arrows and a fun display from a Saab Drakken!

AviD

08:15

@schroeder actually thinking about it, a "fake" social network makes no sense, since the biggest part of of hacking that IS some form of social engineering...

:23914160 was that your password??

Terry Chia

@AviD Thankfully, no. :P

Getting used to be new Razer mouse.

AviD

right, right. That was too short. Everybody knows the best password is "1234".

Rory Alsop

08:42

I thought it was "0000"

AviD

no no, "1234" is the password I have on my luggage

actually that's "12345"

Spaceballs 12345

►

TheJulyPlot

Pa$$w0rd..everyone knows that is the most complex password there is.

Lucas Kauffman

09:21

0

Q: Bypassing Stack Exchange unique IP visits

Stack exchange sites award Bronze, Silver and Gold badges to questions which are visited via a certain shared link by unique IP addresses. Announcer - Share a link to a question later visited by 25 unique IP addresses Booster - Share a link to a question later visited by 300 unique IP addres...

ip user-tracking

puttig this to the test

AviD

09:38

HE HAXORED OUR SYSTEMS?? MUST BE A VIRUS

TildalWave

09:53

@LucasKauffman off topic, should be on MSE

I VTC-ed to our meta, and it can go to MSE from there then

@AviD you know he might be a candidate for ban with that for rigging the system ... we have vote fraud ban, so why wouldn't we have badge fraud one? I mean, it's badges ... they're almost as good as photos of beer :)))

AviD

@TildalWave well, no, he is asking a security question, just happens to be using SE as an example for usage of a pseudo-security mechanism.

TildalWave

@AviD no dear, he actually did it security.stackexchange.com/help/badges/56/publicist

and the answer would be specific to SE

AviD

@TildalWave well it depends. He hasn't admitted it outright, and I dont have the tools to verify this. That said, the badge is pretty straightforward, and explicitly does not exclude his own access from different IPs.

@TildalWave that doesnt mean fraud. Suspicious, yes, but its not evidence.

TildalWave

@AviD what do you mean you don't have the tools? click on the link I just posted

AviD

12 secs ago, by AviD

@TildalWave that doesnt mean fraud. Suspicious, yes, but its not evidence.

limbenjamin

10:08

why would this be considered fraud? The requirements say "Share a link to a question later visited by 1000 unique IP addresses"

TildalWave

@AviD well evidence will be in the logs won't it? so it's something for CMs / Devs to look into

AviD

well correction, he did just sorta admit it.

but he does have an excellent point.

What I meant was, I managed to get 1000 legit unique IP addresses, but there wasn't an actual user behind each IP. This defeats the purpose of the achievement, which is to share the question with a 1000 users and not 1 user behind 1000 IPs. — limbenjamin 16 mins ago

limbenjamin

No where does it mention that there needs to be an actual human being behind each IP?

AviD

@TildalWave yes, exactly.

TildalWave

yes, but this is meta, not a general question that we can answer in a general sense

AviD

10:08

@limbenjamin oh hai

TildalWave

it's too broad as such

limbenjamin

hi

AviD

did you read the question?

TildalWave

yes

AviD

@limbenjamin I agree. It is explicitly vague, though admittedly the intent is obvious.

TildalWave

10:09

> Other than unique IP addresses, is there a better indicator to track unique visitors?

and the answer is: depends

AviD

@TildalWave ah, true.

so he would need to provide more context - which he kinda did, using SE as an example.

TildalWave

which then makes it SE meta

AviD

look, I agree that this is not a great question - and I suspect @limbenjamin was using this as a sneaky way to raise this issue. Amirite? ;-)

limbenjamin

but it is also a infosec related qn, which makes it sec se

TildalWave

as in, report a bug, file a complaint, beg for forgiveness, whatever :)))

limbenjamin

10:11

i think its a legit problem we are likely to face very soon.

TildalWave

@limbenjamin the infosec one that doesn't pertain to SE specifically is too broad

limbenjamin

ipv6 addresses are handed out like free.

Terry Chia

@limbenjamin Nice to see a fellow Singaporean. :)

Also, who the fuck cares? It's just badges.

limbenjamin

oh hi.

AviD

@TildalWave if the name of the site was different, would it bother you?

@TerryChia yes, but SEI does tend to take manipulation of the gamification elements quite seriously.

Terry Chia

10:14

@AviD They didn't for hats. ;)

Also, pretty difficult to do anything about this unless they want to restrict it to registered accounts.

AviD

well.... to some extent.

TildalWave

@AviD I'd vote to close as too broad :P

Lucas Kauffman

@limbenjamin you used ipv6 for it?

@TerryChia exactly

AviD

there was an uncomfortable conversation about that one year...

@TildalWave why? too localized, if anything ;-)

limbenjamin

might or might not have done it. how do you prove it was done by me

i can easily sabotage someone else by boosting their badge count

the share URL is not exactly randomly generated

AviD

10:16

also, I'm not sure how much that is really outside the rules, even if outside the intent.

TildalWave

@AviD Damn it, OK now tell me, how many ways can you think of that this could be done on any platform, specific or not? Because I can think of so many ways how you could scrutinize it so your bollocks fall off, mine would fall of just listing them.

AviD

@TildalWave it's not about a list, though, which I agree would be too broad.

TildalWave

could they check credential? sure. could they check if the page actually rendered? sure. could they check for suspicious increase in visits? sure. .........

AviD

it's a pretty generic question, really, doesnt need to be specific: how can I uniquely identify users that might be anonymous?

TildalWave

you can't

which makes it really broad

because you have to opt for the next best thing

which can be kinda whatever fits

AviD

10:20

a proper answer could get into tracking cookies; graylisted ips; split paths for registered users; geolocation; or the very concept of "unique identity".

@TildalWave I don't disagree - it's a tricky question.

lissen, I agree with you that as the question stands, it is a poor fit.

but there are really two posts there in one: 1. I hacked the badges! 2. Btw how could we uniquefy anonymous endusers?

TildalWave

well you know how it is with tracking .... I mean, let's just mention EU cookie law here, shall we? :D

Terry Chia

@TildalWave Theoretically you can't. You can in practice most of the time.

AviD

if that was cleaned up it could be a good question, if there is no great answer.

TildalWave

@TerryChia that was my point

but means of achieving that will be different, system to system

AviD

okay then, lets take this specific example of hacking SE's IP badges. Let's crowdsource a better solution then, shall we?

Terry Chia

10:22

@TildalWave And? Still a good question.

Lucas Kauffman

@AviD to the kickstarter?

Terry Chia

@AviD Rollbacks when you see abnormal activities. Don't need anything more sophisticated. It's just freaking badges.

AviD

@LucasKauffman To the kickstarter!

To the Batstarter!

ooo okay new idea for a startup: sasme exact thing as kickstarter, but Batman themed.

TildalWave

@TerryChia you didn't say that for my FCrDNS question, which is more specific, and could be one of the ways of achieving this :P

Terry Chia

@TildalWave Your what now?

AviD

10:24

JUST so that people can exclaim: "TO THE BATSTARTER!!"

Terry Chia

I have not been actually looking at the main site for about 6 months now.

TildalWave

6

Q: Should content delivery depend on FCrDNS (forward-confirmed reverse DNS) look-ups and why?

First, let me clear that this isn't a duplicate of Does deliberately wrong information from a DNS server violate standards generally accepted good practices? thread, as I'm not interested in legal aspects or DNS standards, nor ISP best practices. That is not my concern at this moment, and while m...

web-application dns risk-management risk-analysis dns-spoofing

limbenjamin

@Terry Chia not necessarily. If it hits reddit front page, it goes viral and will definitely be flagged as an abnormality, although it is legit traffic

AviD

@limbenjamin true, but if that happens 47 times in a month, that is more abnormal.

TildalWave

I asked that with a different intention, but it is a way to check for same IPv6 tunnel

combine that with request rate and voila

Terry Chia

10:25

@limbenjamin Best part about Stack Exchange is that you can always yell on meta if something isn't right and they can fix it.

AviD

UNLESS you happen to have a huge following. Like @codinghorror. Or JoelS. Or Troy Hunt.

limbenjamin

I don't have a solution to the problem. For too long, we have been stuck with the mindset that unique IP = different person

Terry Chia

Question: Is paying people on Mechanical Turk to visit my share URL considered legit or not?

AviD

Damn but we should get Taylor Swift on here.

@limbenjamin I very agree with this.

@TerryChia right?

TildalWave

@TerryChia it's definitely not sanctioned if that's what you're asking

Terry Chia

10:27

@TildalWave Why not?

AviD

obviously outside the intent, definitely not outside the overly vague rules.

WHICH IS THE PROBLEM.

Lucas Kauffman

@AviD no I want this:

Darude Sandstorm DJ Detweiler Remix

►

AviD

@LucasKauffman huh??

Lucas Kauffman

instead of tailor swift

DJ Detweiller

makes beautiful music

it's all about the flute

AviD

@LucasKauffman wut

I was talking about this

twitter.com/SwiftOnSecurity

limbenjamin

10:28

anyway, i didnt spend a single cent, nor did I have abuse university/company resources/infrastructure

AviD

@LucasKauffman also, lets hear some of that beautiful music. No more of that crap you just linked.

Lucas Kauffman

@AviD DJ Detwiller is just 100 years ahead of time

TildalWave

@TerryChia because it would be nigh impossible to prove the intent the way it's currently tracked... they might still invalidate those badges for suspicious number of them tho, like they do with voting

AviD

@LucasKauffman ah that explains the distortion

TheJulyPlot

What standard of the test though. The intention of the law? Or the interpretation of the law. This isn't a legal court, so the burden of proof can be lower.

Lucas Kauffman

10:31

@TerryChia maybe a bit of a weird question, any chance you have an estimate what you normally spend on decent internet, gas and electricity a month?

limbenjamin

in singapore, 2gbps connection for around 40USD

AviD

hokay guise - lets just let it chill. Look, either this is a bug in the spec, and SEI will handle it, or they will answer that this is an intentional loophole, and we can put this all to rest.

Either way, let's not argue about the badges, and just get creative with actual solutions.

Lucas Kauffman

@limbenjamin so 60 SGD? Does that come with static IP?

AviD

We dont need no steenkeen batches

limbenjamin

dynamic IP, but sort of reserved, in the sense that when you reboot the router, u tend to get back the same one

Lucas Kauffman

10:32

@limbenjamin and whatabout electricity? How much do you spend a month?

limbenjamin

hmm.. depends I would say around 100SGD a month for a household of 5

Lucas Kauffman

@limbenjamin that's with an aircon right?

AviD

WOW, our electricity is waaaay pricier

limbenjamin

not 24/7, 4 hours a day

Lucas Kauffman

@limbenjamin seems good, might need to learn how to sleep with just a fan then

TildalWave

10:34

@TheJulyPlot mod message and a "until we hear from you" ban is usual means of dealing with suspicious voting activity, for example, but I don't see how that could work here, OP is here for example and we heard form him already ;) I don't think there is any standard of test, it's SE, it's whimsical :))

AviD

@TildalWave also, I think it's clear that @limbenjamin had no malicious intent, and WILL NOT CONTINUE with this, until it is clarified.

RIGHT, @limbenjamin?? ;-)

Lucas Kauffman

@limbenjamin so let's put like monthly expenses at about 250 including water electricity interwebs?

limbenjamin

yes

Lucas Kauffman

@AviD It's for 'research purposes'

TildalWave

whimsical in a sense that it often means more who's complaining than with how solid arguments

limbenjamin

10:36

more of raising awareness, now that I think of it, there might have been a better avenue

@lu

TildalWave

@AviD oh I don't care about that

limbenjamin

@LucasKauffman yea, around that ballpark

Lucas Kauffman

@limbenjamin how much you spend on food?

AviD

@limbenjamin uhhh yeeaahhh.... "miiiiight have been", yup ;-)

limbenjamin

u thinking of migrating to SG?

AviD

10:37

@LucasKauffman you getting a little chummy there, eh?

limbenjamin

food ranges from $3 all the way to couple hundred

Lucas Kauffman

@limbenjamin I'm one interview left and the chances are quite high

AviD

don't get creepy.

limbenjamin

depends if you are ok with hawker food

Lucas Kauffman

@limbenjamin I am, but I doubt it's healthy for every day :p I don't mind cooking

TildalWave

10:38

@LucasKauffman you're not worried about the binge drinking ban? :)))

limbenjamin

single or bringing a family?

Lucas Kauffman

@TildalWave don't start me on that, I tried calculating how much taxes I need to pay if I want to bring my beer and whisky and it was close to 400 euros :(

TildalWave

hehehehe

limbenjamin

yea, alcohol/tabacco is heavily taxed

Lucas Kauffman

@limbenjamin single, aiming to rent a 4 room HDB flat and bring my own furniture

@limbenjamin considering the average belgian drinks 150 liters of beer a year, you can imagine this is quite painful :p

limbenjamin

10:40

single then not worth cooking, just eat out. $3 a meal eating out vs buying ingredients and all that

TildalWave

I think SG is an awesome place, I really like the attitude of people. But it kinda feels like California with all those restrictions in place, and I already have that in EU

Lucas Kauffman

@limbenjamin I always cook for several days and then freeze it into portion boxes

@limbenjamin but I know myself :( I will eat way too much

limbenjamin

i see. just my opinion. I did something similar when I lived in geneva. Food prices in geneva was unreasonable.

i find SG food prices to be not worth the effort to cook and all that

TildalWave

true that (about Geneva)

Lucas Kauffman

@limbenjamin geneva is crazy :p

AviD

10:42

is that a meme?

Lucas Kauffman

@limbenjamin true, and quite good too, but I'm just afraid I'll get too fat

AviD

Scrubs Hooch Is Crazy

►

Lucas Kauffman

@limbenjamin although the climate makes me eat a lot less

@limbenjamin transportation if you take bus and MRT? 200 a month?

limbenjamin

$120 a month gives u a travel pass, unlimited MRT rides, up to 4 bus rides a day

Lucas Kauffman

@limbenjamin oh sweet

Journeyman Geek

10:46

@limbenjamin: I considered that then realised I spend less than that ;p

limbenjamin

yep, its an upper bound, per trip price is around $2

Journeyman Geek

@LucasKauffman: cool ;p

I think I spend ~5 dollars a day on transport. Tho, I live relatively near where I work (Bus from home to harbourfront's ~ 5 minutes or so, then train to one north)

Lucas Kauffman

I'll probably living around Bukit Panjang, so one bussride to the MRT exchange to raffles

Journeyman Geek

no idea on utilities, parents pay it, and its dropped drastically since we switched to LED lighting, and my brother moved out

raffles? Swanky ;p

limbenjamin

hmm.. strange. i pay $1.70 per trip from bishan to kent ridge

Journeyman Geek

10:49

yeah, MRT's awesome when it works

Lucas Kauffman

@JourneymanGeek in all honesty, you don't even know how good it works until you've lived in Europe, it's absolutely amazing compared to Belgium

Journeyman Geek

@LucasKauffman: Oh, when it works, it works ;p

and its got great accessibility once you got used to it

When it breaks tho, all heck breaks loose cause no one is used to it not working, even now

Lucas Kauffman

@JourneymanGeek yea but at least they put in some busses

Journeyman Geek

yup

Lucas Kauffman

that doesn't happen here

if you're stuck, you're fucked

Journeyman Geek

10:51

lol

AviD

@LucasKauffman coming in blind, but are you talking about @Simon's mom again?

Journeyman Geek

government takes it quite personally when it happens.

AviD

12 secs ago, by AviD

@LucasKauffman coming in blind, but are you talking about @Simon's mom again?

Lucas Kauffman

@AviD maybe

Journeyman Geek

One moment you're happily in the tunnel. Next moment its dark and you're crying for mommy....

Oh wait.

AviD

10:52

yeah, I leave for a while, come back, first thing I see is obviously about @Simon's mom.

Journeyman Geek

@LucasKauffman: I've been in a bus that broke down

David Freitag

@JourneymanGeek Does sex always end that way for you?

Journeyman Geek

rest of your ride is free (if you wait for the replacement bus) as is your next ride (in the same day)

@DavidFreitag clearly you are relating too much to this.

David Freitag

@JourneymanGeek See, you have made the false presumption that I was having sex in the first place.

Lucas Kauffman

@JourneymanGeek for some reason I do love riding the LRT, it reminds me of a roller coaster ride

Terry Chia

10:53

@LucasKauffman I think my family pays about $200 a month for all.

Journeyman Geek

@LucasKauffman: never ridden one.

Terry Chia

But we use the air con sparingly.

$60/month for Internet is on the high side, we pay $30/mth for 200 Mbps.

David Freitag

@TerryChia I pay $80 for 150mb/s

Journeyman Geek

@TerryChia: SH?

SH's 200 mbps is 20mbps

Terry Chia

@JourneymanGeek M1.

Journeyman Geek

10:56

buuut ipv6

I think Myrepublic's about 50 for 1 gbps

Terry Chia

My entirely family uses M1 for Internet and phone so we get a nice discount.

Journeyman Geek

ahh

SH's nicee if you want to go for internet/tv/phone at once place or want redundant connections

I'd go with myrepublic (and pay the extra for the static IP)

Lucas Kauffman

I spent a month in SG without AC and I thought I was going to die

Journeyman Geek

lol

David Freitag

It's $250/mo for HD television, phone, and 100mb/s service here.

Lucas Kauffman

10:58

alright whatabout phone ?

Journeyman Geek

(If I move out, chances are I'm not bothering with a cable TV subscription)

David Freitag

Just for phone? $30/mo

Terry Chia

@LucasKauffman Honestly, you'll get used to it.

Journeyman Geek

I pay ~40 sgd for 100min/100 texts. current plans give you 2gb, but mine's 12.

I'll probably switch to the new telco when they come out.

hardly ever uses his phone outside data anyway

Terry Chia

@LucasKauffman You confirmed coming over?

David Freitag

10:59

@JourneymanGeek LOL, I pay $50/mo for 512MB of data

Lucas Kauffman

@TerryChia I have one last interview, but so far the messages have been positive

Terry Chia

@LucasKauffman Cool. Still with EY?

Lucas Kauffman

@TerryChia yep

just one last interview with their partner

and if he's happy I'll be able to come over

Terry Chia

What position will you be here?

Lucas Kauffman

@TerryChia I have no idea, normally I keep the same rank, I'll normally be joining their pentest team, but I hope I get to do some GRC as well with regard to business continiouity

but that's what Ill be hearing on tuesday I guess

Terry Chia

11:06

Nice. :)

What's the partners name? Might have heard of him.

Lucas Kauffman

Steve Lam

Terry Chia

Hmm nope. Doesn't ring a bell.

Lucas Kauffman

Well let's see what happens I hope I get this sorted asap

AviD

@LucasKauffman Isn't he the guy from Broken Lizard?

Lucas Kauffman

what

AviD

11:17

imdb.com/name/nm0501399/?ref_=tt_cl_t14

Lucas Kauffman

LAM not LEMME

AviD

meh, I've heard it both ways

Lucas Kauffman

btw anyone here playing planetary anhilation?

AviD

@LucasKauffman is that another euphemism for your dirty games with @Simon's mom?

seriously, its like every time I look at this tab someone is saying something nasty about @Simon's mom. Cmon guys, get over this.

kalina

12:05

@TheJulyPlot no, I mean where my bed is physically located

@LucasKauffman there isn't really anything to test...

@LucasKauffman sampling a huge section of the track and then layering a breakbeat over it is not "remixing"

and then the flute starts

oh god my ears

well this is awkward

I appear to have woken up allergic to myself

Journeyman Geek

._.

That would mean... it could be lupus.

Its never lupus.

Lucas Kauffman

12:29

@JourneymanGeek It's lupus or hodgkins

kalina

oh right, I recognize your avatar now

@LucasKauffman the only broken part about all of this that I can see is that this guy has 49x linked to 1000 people badges but has only reached 36k people according to his profile

nice math

kalina

12:54

seriously though I need to stop sneezing

Rоry McCune

13:17

afternoon all

David Freitag

@RоryMcCune o/

Rоry McCune

^That was my location at 10:30 this morning

Up a hill in cloud.. nice walk

bit a bit blowy

AviD

@RоryMcCune I bet you have a few clients like that

Thomas Pornin

@AviD Well, your comment on "don't roll your own" is of course correct -- it always is.

AviD

@ThomasPornin hey now, that's all you're not ruling out?

and no comment on the cryptosnobs? ;-)

I bet you're just upset about the cryptosnobs comment.

Btw, you should know the cryptosnobs comment was made lovingly.

Also, I'm really liking this cryptosnobs term.

Thomas Pornin

13:26

"snob" means "without nobility" which is statistically true of most cryptographers (and most everybody, really).

My main point, though, is that "adding randomness" does not necessarily implies extra security.

Conceptually, you get more security out of some extra randomness, you need the defender to know that extra random value, and the attacker to not know it.

Here, neither defender nor attacker knows the X value, so it should not change things with regards to overall security.

AviD

@ThomasPornin oh I agree. I was taking the edge case of his own mindset - thinking that it is "moar securer cuz random", I simply wanted to show him the outside possibilty of what would happen if his perception were true.

I explicitly declared that, too, and then gave a proper, if extraneous, answer.

"Speak to them in their own language" (as long you make clear it is inaccurate)

@ThomasPornin and in fact, harms overall security.

btw @ThomasPornin d'ya mind if I quote you on that thing you said about engineering and economics?

Thomas Pornin

@AviD I don't mind, but I read it somewhere so I cannot be considered the original author.

AviD

kk

Thomas Pornin

Actually I think I read it with "engineering", and I added "economics"

AviD

@ThomasPornin also, I could be wrong, but I dont think our answers differ substantially - other than yours being more strictly correct, and mine aiming to clarify his own mis-assumptions.

kalina

13:38

@Adi do I even want to know what you were looking for?

AviD

@ThomasPornin that's very cool, that also correlates with what you were explaining to me the other day about Makwa, scrypt vs bcrypt, and "memory hard"...

Simon

14:16

@RоryMcCune That is soooo cool, very movie-like!

Rоry McCune

@Simon aye what the picture doesn't show is the wind was howling around when we got to the top!

Simon

@RоryMcCune Creepy, love it.

Oh come on.

Rоry McCune

Simon

I like creepy atmospheres, not creeps.

Rоry McCune

^^ that's the view up to the top "The black castle" as it's called

(BTW I didn't star that :) )

Simon

14:25

Is there an actual castle?

Rоry McCune

nah they just call it that

there is a wreck of a WWII aircraft around there somewhere

Simon

Nice.

Rоry McCune

but didn't find it this time..

Simon

How far away are you from stores like groceries etc?

Rоry McCune

@Simon we have a small shop in the village (5 mins walk) for like milk and bread and stuff

but a decent ASDA (UK walmart) is about 50 mins drive

Simon

14:27

Ouch.

Rоry McCune

although, hopefully, they're going to start doing home delivery here at the end of the year!

which will be awesome 'cause it'll save me 2.5-3 hour trips every week

Simon

Yeah no kidding, it must take a whole afternoon to do the trip.

Rоry McCune

that Hill I was up this morning is just across the loch from our house though so while we don't have shops we do have like 3-4 good mountains to climb right next door

:)

Simon

Yeah that's definitely the kind of place where I'd like to live when I get older.

Rоry McCune

@Simon yeah well Canada has loads of good wilderness places to be for sure

Simon

14:32

Oh yes but it's inconvenient right now because of work and our activities.

So later on that will most-likely happen, or at least get a cottage.

Lucas Kauffman

@RоryMcCune it holds the black night?

Simon

@LucasKauffman pls, no one knows since you need to wear the black amulet to see the castle.

Lucas Kauffman

@Simon Legend has it, it is protected by several Rories

Simon

:O

Rоry McCune

@LucasKauffman dunno but in Gaelic it's "Caisteal Dubh"

the gaelic language is not one for easy spelling

AviD

14:47

@RоryMcCune is that like Scottish dubstep?

Rоry McCune

@AviD ... no

AviD

right, that would be "Steaippehh Dubh"

wow I'm like really good at languages

Lucas Kauffman

15:04

@RоryMcCune WOB WOB WOB

or more like

Wubh Wubh Wubh

AviD

@LucasKauffman shouldnt that be WERBLE WERBLE WERBLE

Lucas Kauffman

could very much be

AviD

So, I'm having to learn python.

some people here would be happy.

Lucas Kauffman

@AviD finally

it's about bloody time

AviD

yeah well, we needed a language schoolkids could understand easily.

kalina

15:17

blah

I said blah dammit

obey the blah

fine! I will take my presence and go elsewhere!

TheJulyPlot

Meh

kalina

probably to bed

where it's snuggly

TheJulyPlot

Sorry i mean blah

Hoe about pffft

kalina

and I can contort myself into weirdly comfortable positions and play Fallout Shelter

TheJulyPlot

How*genuine typeo

kalina

15:26

*falloutshelterisnotaeuphemism

AviD

@kalina you misspelled "blerch"

TheJulyPlot

Ineverthoughtitwasaeuphemisms untilyoupointeditout

Btw serious advice required; who has done a PhD, and how did it affect job prospects after taking N years out of the workplace to complete it?

Rоry McCune

15:41

@TheJulyPlot IIRC @ThomasPornin has one of those

but I'm not sure in what order he did it

I'm definitely the wrong person to ask, as I have but a BA degree.. in accountancy

Thomas Pornin

@RоryMcCune The PhD is what you do first when you begin a career in Research

But then I went to the private sector

TheJulyPlot

I believe he does, among many of his other achievements. I am under no illusion that I will ever match his achievements.

Rоry McCune

@ThomasPornin where there is some semblence of good pay :)

Thomas Pornin

The PhD is not important in itself; what matters is what you learn while you are writing it.

TheJulyPlot

See I think my motivation is wrong, I want it for the achievement of doing it and possibly to change paths to lecturing.

Although I have a thirst for knowledge and a lot to learn.

Thomas Pornin

15:45

Ah, if you want to enter the Academic world then there is no choice; you have to comply to the Tradition.

TheJulyPlot

I currently have a 3 years funding for a studentship, and turning it down is proving vwry difficult, as I would have to quit my job.

Thomas Pornin

You want to learn and you get money to have time to learn. What's difficult in that choice ?

Just remember that Academia will make you knowledgeable, not rich.

TheJulyPlot

Because it is a lot less money than I get now, I have a job in security already and I would have to give that up.

Im not motivated by money...I want to do the PhD, i just need to get the courage to hand in my notice. PhD starts on October the 1st and may have to spend 6 months on gardening leave, so there may be complicating. Thank you for the advice. I think I may have just made the decision.

Thank you as well Rory. :)

Rоry McCune

np :)

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