The DMZ

AviD

00:14

okay, I'm ready.

teach me everything I should know about RAID.

oh, and mention NAS while youre at it.

2 minutes, go.

Gilles

/dev/chat

General discussion for unix.stackexchange.com. If you have a q...

2

Ah, wait, no, you use some weirdo OS, don't you?

AviD

@Gilles really? you're gonna equivilate RAID and UNIX?

@Gilles no, Windows.

Gilles

Root Access

For all you Super Users out there. You have backups, right?

5

@AviD yeah, what I said

Terry Chia

00:36

@AviD Unix and ZFS. Done.

AviD

THATS NOT HELPING

YOURE NOT TELLING ME ANYTHING

Terry Chia

@AviD What's new?

AviD

@TerryChia and, still not done

what RAID?

Terry Chia

But honestly. Just use FreeNAS for a NAS.

AviD

which disks?

etc

Terry Chia

00:38

@AviD RAID-Z.

AviD

@TerryChia is that the one with zombies?

Terry Chia

@AviD ZFS.

AviD

YOURE NOT HELPING

file system != RAID

Terry Chia

IT IS IN THE CASE OF ZFS YOU DOUGHNUT.

AviD

okay, lissen - 1. ZFS supports different forms of raid. doersnt make it the same. 2. which RAID, and why? 3. it's DONUT not DOUGHNUT you donut

ahh fugget it, I'll ask again tomorrow, maybe somebody with useful knowledge will be around

Terry Chia

00:43

RAID-Z2...

It's honestly not difficult. FreeNAS is almost plug and play.

AviD

why?

@TerryChia and yet, it's almost as if that information is completely useless to me.

Terry Chia

Err, more redundancy?

AviD

extra unneeded redundancy.

Terry Chia

You aren't afraid of multiple disk failures..?

AviD

@TerryChia I'm afraid of 3 things: zombies, raptors, and running out of donuts.

multiple disk failures aint something to be afeerd of.

Terry Chia

00:47

Then why RAID? #yolo

AviD

though it is something to worry about, and manage accordingly.

Journeyman Geek

@AviD: or running out of donuts cause the world is overrun by zombie raptors?

AviD

@TerryChia yeah, exactly - yolo, which is why I'm gonna start raiding everything.

Gilles

@AviD If you're afraid of zombies, remember to always wait for your children

AviD

@JourneymanGeek Or the zombie raptors eating all my donuts

Gilles

00:48

If you're afraid of Raptors, don't buy WD

AviD

?

ahh

Journeyman Geek

@AviD: ZFS is hard to do right tho

AviD

wait, isnt raptor a Seagate disk

@JourneymanGeek IM NOT DOING ZFS

Journeyman Geek

good ;p

AviD

there is ZERO benefit for me to go to ZFS

Journeyman Geek

00:49

You should just get an SSD ;p

Gilles

Western Digital Raptor

The Western Digital Raptor (often marketed as WD Raptor or VelociRaptor) is a series of high performance hard disk drives produced by Western Digital. The drive currently occupies a niche in the enthusiast, workstation and small-server market. Traditionally, the majority of servers used hard drives featuring a SCSI interface because of their advantages in both performance and reliability over consumer-level ATA drives. Although pitched as an “enterprise-class drive”, it won favour with the PC gaming and enthusiast community because the drive was capable of speeds usually found only on more expensive...

AviD

ooh! is that what the Z is for? ZERO benefit FS?

Gilles

@JourneymanGeek can you get ZFS under Windows?

AviD

@Gilles ok, I was wrong. you can write that down.

Terry Chia

@JourneymanGeek Not really... FreeNAS...

AviD

00:49

@JourneymanGeek I would love to. Too damn expensive at high capacities.

Journeyman Geek

@Gilles: no

@TerryChia: right

AviD

@Gilles why on earth would I want to? NTFS and ReFS are available.

Journeyman Geek

You need a SSD for ZIL and some other thing

and heh. I may be building a storage box soon

AviD

aaand btw just so you can all stop being confused, windows does natively do (software) RAID.

Journeyman Geek

May need to get the drives off amazon since the 6tb cheap drives I want don't seem to be out here yet.

AviD

00:51

Perhaps I should have been more specific.

Terry Chia

@AviD This is me honestly trying to be helpful: ZFS is so much better than traditional RAID it's not even comparable. If it's a NAS you want just run FreeBSD.

AviD

I want to RAID the storage on my desktop ( / server / VDI / etc).

Journeyman Geek

@AviD: What do you need? Speed, redundancy or concatination?

AviD

I need to know a. what level of RAID is right for me; b. which disks to prefer; c. is there anything wrong with sw-based RAID.

Journeyman Geek

C: software based raid tends to suck performance wise

AviD

00:53

@JourneymanGeek redundancy, preferably with no hit in speed.

Journeyman Geek

ahh, no hit in speed is tricky

I was about to suggest storage spaces

Terry Chia

@JourneymanGeek Not really... SW RAID is definitely better than HW.

AviD

@JourneymanGeek or as little as possible

@JourneymanGeek oo! not a bad idea at all!

Terry Chia

If your HW RAID controller dies you are screwed unless you can find the same model.

AviD

@JourneymanGeek though I dont think redundancy is the focus for that.

Journeyman Geek

00:54

@TerryChia: "Performance wise"

@AviD: There's an option for redundancy I think

Terry Chia

@JourneymanGeek There isn't that much difference.

AviD

@TerryChia yeah, well, that's just, like.... your opinion, maan.

@TerryChia can you elaborate?

Journeyman Geek

AviD

@JourneymanGeek ah cool, thanks. other than simplicity, is there any benefit to this over actual OS RAID? downsides?

Journeyman Geek

Slowness

BUT this will work with anything

AviD

00:58

ah

dont even need to be the same type of disks, eh

Journeyman Geek

Want to add ISCSI drives? Sure. Drive offline? Bring it back on. Want to test it with VHDs? Sure

AviD

it does look nice

Journeyman Geek

Yeah, it will use whole disks IIRC

arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/10/… worth a read

But I tested it on a mix of physical and VHD disks

AviD

thanks!

hmm, while VHD has very minimal overhead, I could imagine that for something low-level like this it could make a difference.

Terry Chia

@AviD chriscowley.me.uk/blog/2013/04/07/…

AviD

01:01

cool, thanks!

okay, now I have some reading to do.... this can deff help me figure out what I need

@JourneymanGeek does SS function actually as RAID, or is it something else altogether that serves a similar purpose (at a higher level of abstraction)?

Terry Chia

I actually don't even RAID my stuff anymore. I have my FS as BTRFS, that repairs minor damage. Important stuff is backed up in multiple locations.

Much much easier.

AviD

what I like about that is that I can just go get any new drive right now, even a cheap one, and when this one gets RMA'd I can add it in and just have it as backup.

and continue doing the same.

also, I dont have to exchange the quiet Green drives for noisy Red ones...

@TerryChia well, that was my situation. problem is total drive failure - it doesnt even register with the BIOS.

so while all (well, almost ;-( ) important data is backed up, that doesnt mean I wont have huge amounts of downtime getting everything back online and configured.

Terry Chia

@AviD True, can't you automate the rebuild though?

I can rebuild most of my systems within an hour.

AviD

I could, should have set that all up...

actually its not really worth it for me.

again, all my systems are on VMs. so easier to just back that up then to rebuild.

Terry Chia

Aye. That's an option as well.

AviD

01:08

and each system is tweaked and configured, not to mention in constant use, so automated rebuilding is kinda not worth it.

Journeyman Geek

01:23

Something else

Its storage concatenation with redundancy

Closest things in Linux would be greyhole, and maybe mhdd

AviD

01:39

ha! take that, @TerryChia you linuxlover!

Journeyman Geek

Lol

I was actually considering a similar set up for my fileserver

12 to 16 tb on 2 disks :p

AviD

so even though the disks dont NEED to be identical, you're still better off with them as close as possible to the same configuration. right?

otherwise you're just wasting capacity / performance that wont be used.

hmm, and another question. if the disks are already virtualized storage, is it then a bad idea to virutalize VHDs on top of that?

perhaps its better to just create dedicated spaces per VM, and use passthrough disks to the VMs.

naw, I dont think so. in most cases there are benefits to VHDs, like ~~snapshots~~ checkpoints.

and xcopy "imaging".

though in some case I might do just that - e.g. large data disks, where the data is backed up anyway.

anyway, I can go ahead and just order any ol' disk tomorrow.

thanks all!

Terry Chia

04:03

Linus is really smart for branching out and developing Git. This way, he'll still be famous when systemd replaces Linux.

Tweeted by SwiftOnSecurity on January 16, 2015 at 3:50 AM

Stack Exchange

05:02

If you encounter a hex bolt, but you only brought screwdrivers, you can try sandwiching the head of the bolt between two parallel screwdriver shafts, squeezing the screwdrivers together with a hand at either end, then twisting. It doesn't work and it's a great way to hurt yourself, but you can try it!

skullpatrol

05:42

in English Language & Usage, 49 mins ago, by EnglishMaster

Is there a terminology for technologies that add extra layers to securing personal online accounts? For example, in Korea, some webapps ask you to verify with your mobile phone or external security webapp in order to verify the account belongs to you and you are the owner who tries to log in.

Would that^ be called "password protection"?

AviD

08:01

@TerryChia you dont need to post her tweets here, everyone already follows her.

@skullpatrol not necessasrily. there are other factors.

@skullpatrol the generic term would be "authentication", or multi-factor authentication.

skullpatrol

Thanks for responding @AviD :-)

Rоry McCune

10:23

@TerryChia @LucasKauffman was it you two who were interested in the JRuby / Burp stuff? raesene.github.io/blog/2015/01/15/…

btw @LucasKauffman just found out there's more Llamas with hats!! 7 8 and 9 are out youtube.com/user/SecretAgentBob/videos

Terry Chia

@RоryMcCune @LucasKauffman I think, don't think it's me.

I'm not that into web stuff lately.

Rоry McCune

@TerryChia it is a bit old-school and fuddy duddy for you I know

you're more a wearables/IoT guy these days I guess

Terry Chia

@RоryMcCune Nah, I have fully converted to the dark practice of SEO.

Rоry McCune

@TerryChia ... that better stand for Security Enterprise Organisation

Terry Chia

@RоryMcCune Is that any better?

Rоry McCune

10:27

@TerryChia marginally

2

Lucas Kauffman

10:43

@RоryMcCune yep me

Arperum

Yay. I fixed an issue by looking at a screen and not doing or saying anything.

"Oh, now it works..."

Rоry McCune

11:01

@Arperum that's my favourite way of fixing things! then you just say "I am that good" and walk away

Rory Alsop

@RоryMcCune We used to call that "Engineer Magic"

Arperum

@RоryMcCune It was viewing through teamviewer, so the walking away wouldn't have done that much.

kalina

11:51

people call me weird for getting excited about PC parts

I have built a fortress out of PC part boxes to keep those people at bay

I'm now going to ruin a perfectly good PC by putting Linux on it

skullpatrol

:O

kalina

I'm joking, I'd never put Linux on it. I'm putting Windows 8.1 on it.

skullpatrol

-_-

kalina

this PC isn't even for me anyway

I'm just kind like that

I am, however, up to my evil tricks

cable tieing EVERYTHING and then cutting the excess off so there's nothing you can do about it

skullpatrol

};-)

kalina

11:57

that moment when you put the graphics card in and it doesn't quite fit

Also: hello everybody! How is everybody today?

Rоry McCune

@kalina pffft you youngsters and your fancy cases with their easy access and good cooling. When I were a lad it were sheet steel wi hard corners and no thought to layout at all... and it came in one colour... beige!

kalina

when you were "a lad", the cold war had just started.

that has not only finished, but we no longer excrement outdoors into holes in the ground and we invented internal combustion as well

this case is blue

it's a nice blue, not the best blue, but it is blue

It is intended to be used by a man

so I'm purchased fans with pink LEDs in them

pink goes with blue

major win in the aesthetics department

I actually purchased a second set of fans, just in case he has the audacity to complain about the free PC I just built him

because ultimately the pink fans are just a joke

however, he doesn't know that, and I'm not going to tell him

Journeyman Geek

@RoryAlsop: and all the corners sharp?

kalina

so he has to ask

Journeyman Geek

oddly I do believe I have an actual beige box lying around

Rоry McCune

12:04

@JourneymanGeek hells yeah I lacerated myself loads of times trying to get stuff in and out of cases

Terry Chia

@JourneymanGeek Wrong Rory.

kalina

I didn't even need a screwdriver to put this machine together

Rоry McCune

@kalina blasphemy!

Journeyman Geek

(I had an old mini ITX with a small, dead PSU so I moved it into a spare dead beige box. ALL THAT ROOM)

kalina

I did break a nail getting the heatsink/fan assembly to clunk into place properly though

and I broke a second one trying to get the backplate to be where it should be

those are the only casualities

I'm not a fan of the new method of fixing the heatsink and fan to the motherboard

with the push pins

Rоry McCune

12:07

@kalina the older once that you had to put a lot of force behind were a bit nerve wracking

raz

@RоryMcCune I haven't built a computer in about 5 years, but I always thought I was gonna snap the motherboard with the amount of force I had to press down on some of those older heat sinks.

Rоry McCune

@raz yeah that was always the bit that made me nervous...

raz

@RоryMcCune Those Zalman's though, they were nice. Fairly easy to install too.

Rory Alsop

@TerryChia it's okay - I lacerated my hands all the time as well

Terry Chia

@RoryAlsop Starting fires with rocks must have been pretty difficult.

Rory Alsop

12:12

@TerryChia does lava count as a rock? If so - no, fires are easy :-)

raz

@kalina Did the computer boot up on the first try? That was always a great feeling. When you push the power button and nothing happens your heart kind of just drops.

@RoryAlsop Was your first computer lava cooled?

AviD

@RоryMcCune wow #7 is brilliant. very apropo, we have elections coming up.

Rory Alsop

@raz I remember getting the boss's kids to help make PC's in time for Christmas one year. They would have been 486DX2-66's. They had smaller hands so could get the screws in for the ISA cards more easily :-)

@RоryMcCune and @kalina - did you guys watch CyberBully last night? girl from Game of Thrones in the starring role.

Very good - and very disturbing

AviD

@RоryMcCune and lots of sharp things sticking out everywhere.for.no.goddamn.reason.

raz

@RoryAlsop What network is that on?

Rory Alsop

12:18

Going to show my 2 eldest kids - should put them off ever putting anything online :-)

AviD

though my case now is super awesome.

Rory Alsop

@raz channel 4, I think

raz

@RoryAlsop haha, smart ass

AviD

@kalina that's so '80's of you.

Rory Alsop

@raz no - it's the correct answer - channel4.com/programmes/cyberbully

in the UK, a TV 'network' isn't so much a thing

raz

12:20

gotcha

I'll have to check it out this weekend.

I doubt BBC America plays it

Rory Alsop

@raz it definitely won't, as it's not BBC

:-)

raz

Basically Americans think that BBC America is all of British Television.

Rory Alsop

traditionally (historically) we had the BBC. Then Independent TV (ITV) turned up. Then Channel 4. Then Channel 5. Then it went crazy.

And about that time they even started transmitting through the night, rather than playing God Save the Queen and wishing us a good night, and closing down.

raz

@RoryAlsop haha, and now you have infomercials.

Ever fall asleep and then one of those things come on? The product enters my dreams, weird things happen.

Rory Alsop

@raz nope. I don't fall asleep in the living room

raz

12:26

@RoryAlsop I have a TV in my bedroom.

Rоry McCune

@AviD every time you think it can't get any darker.... it gets darker

Rory Alsop

@raz Ah - I'm just about modern enough to have 1 TV in the house... it does have a massive home cinema sound system, and I have computers everywhere, but no screens in the bedroom

Terry Chia

9

Jediism - The Church of Jedi

Proposed Q&A site for committed followers of Jediism, experts in Jediism, avid fans of star wars movie, and the curious ones about Jediism.

Currently in definition.

Rory Alsop

@TerryChia How's Pastafarianism coming along

Terry Chia

@RoryAlsop No clue.

Rory Alsop

12:35

75

Pastafarianism

Proposed Q&A site for anyone with questions about the Flying Spaghetti Monster or the religion based around him.

Currently in commitment.

much better than Jediism, but still not going to succeed

TildalWave

heh beat me to it

kalina

@raz of course it booted first time, I'm no amateur.

raz

@kalina Hey it happens to the best of us!

kalina

@RoryAlsop TV... don't watch it

@raz in that case, the only PC I've ever had not boot first time never booted at all

and that wasn't my fault

it involved a cat

it was the first PC I ever made

raz

@kalina hahaha of course it did

kalina

12:47

@raz fucking animals and small boxes

"oh, this looks like it could be comfortable"

Simon

@kalina Who are you, deadmau5?

kalina

@Simon ...

Simon

A mouse died in his computer if you didn't know.

You dotting blimp.

kalina

shrug

Rory Alsop

@kalina that sounds very wrong...even for the DMZ

:-)

kalina

12:50

so anyway

Rory Alsop

so - good PC then

?

raz

@kalina You shouldn't be effing small animals or boxes...

Simon

@raz pls

kalina

@RoryAlsop meh, it's a PC

Simon

Does it compute?

kalina

12:51

my main studio PC still has a sandybridge chip in it, that's fast enough

this is what... 15% faster?

according to internet benchmarks, anyway

raz

They can't put anything on the internet that isn't true.

kalina

it's faster than "not having a PC", though

raz

This makes me want to build a computer.

kalina

who the hell really adopts a tablet as their main computing device

Rory Alsop

@kalina hipsters

Simon

12:53

People who hate life.

kalina

this guy uses an ipad for everything

raz

@RoryAlsop What he said.

Rory Alsop

@kalina even if I needed to use a tablet for many things, it would still not be an ipad

raz

Can't code properly on a tablet.

kalina

@RoryAlsop tbh, other than the nexus 10, there isn't really a non-apple tablet with the ipad's quality

Simon

12:54

Can't do shit properly on a tablet.

AviD

@raz Scott Hansleman disagrees.

kalina

if you're shitting on your tablet, you're doing it wrong

AviD

@Simon EEMMMAAAAA

raz

@AviD Is he the paranoid Rob Lowe?

Simon

@AviD wat

kalina

12:55

I tried writing music on a tablet

AviD

►

kalina

however, one thing I do use my tablet for is as an additional interface to my PC

raz

@kalina Yeah I don't like Apple products, but when it comes to tablets they did it right.

TildalWave

@kalina Moses?

kalina

whether that using some software that integrates into my sequencer directly or what

Simon

12:56

@AviD LOL

KARMAAAA

kalina

@TildalWave he didn't really compute with it, though, did he?

Rory Alsop

@kalina ahh - depends on your definition of quality then. I do not rate the sound quality on the iPad, and I cannot stand the UI, and the interfaces fail big time. Aside from that - I do like the iPad screen, except when outdoors, then it sucks too

kalina

I suppose you're the wrong person to ask

@RoryAlsop did Moses use a stone tablet to compute the 10 commandments?

Rory Alsop

@raz The Galaxy Tab S is sooo much better

@kalina probably

kalina

or was it actually more of a rudimentary notepad

Rory Alsop

12:57

@kalina Eventually - when I had forced him to upgrade

raz

@RoryAlsop There's so much crap on Samsung products.

The Nexus 5 was nice enough, but I'd rather just have a laptop.

Rory Alsop

@raz nope - remove all Samsung stuff

kalina

@RoryAlsop Samsung does that PC OEM thing of bundling shitloads of nonsense that nobody will ever really use

AviD

@kalina I think you need @RоryMcCune to get his wife to chime in.

raz

That's a lot of effort.

Rory Alsop

12:57

@raz totally agree with this. And even better - a big desktop

kalina

and then slapping an interface on it and calling it something it isn't

Rory Alsop

@kalina yeah - so you remove it

Simon

@raz Nexus 5 = phone

Rory Alsop

no effort - root and pop on decent ROM - sorted

kalina

"no effort"

"except..."

raz

12:58

@Simon Good call... Nexus 7. I broke its network stack a couple of times.

But other than that it was kinda cool.

Rory Alsop

Even my kids rooted their own phones

kalina

"download android sdk, get adb, root device, flash bootloader, flash OS"

Rory Alsop

Hamish seems to run a new ROM each week

TildalWave

@kalina you're right, those are more like OS

Rory Alsop

@kalina almost zero effort

raz

12:59

@RoryAlsop It's fairly easy now, I must admit.

kalina

@RoryAlsop maybe for somebody who is technically competent, which I do not claim to be since 2013

Rory Alsop

@kalina nah - it's almost point and click now

raz

@kalina It pretty much roots itself.

Simon

I bought a N7 when they came out, I don't think I've spent more than 30 hours on it.

/dev/chat

Root Access

Transcript for