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00:00 - 18:0019:00 - 00:00

00:46
Sup all
Anyone coming to RuxCon this year?
 
6 hours later…
06:28
@D3C4FF morning ;) dropped you some answer to your CCTV questions... I'm on my first coffee mind you, so if you think I messed it up, drop me a note here. :)
07:45
@LucasK Did you ever find the time to look through your source code? I still can't figure out the Flask-Login issue.
08:23
@LucasKauffman I checked their prices, very decent. The student ticket is 50 eur.
@Lucas I'm actually now trying to find a cheap flight to Gent
@Adnan you need to fly to brussels and take a train to Gent
@Adnan are you still a student :p?
@LucasKauffman Yupsies!
@TerryChia ah I knew I forgot something
@LucasKauffman I have justify my alcoholism somehow
08:45
@LucasKauffman I found one for 132. Seems like a very good price. How much is train?
@Adnan not a lot, maybe 10 euro or something
09:00
@Adnan I thought that's a given in Finland? :O
6
Q: Is there any way to tell if CCTV is on or not?

D3C4FFIs there any way that an attacker can identify if a CCTV camera is on/operational without direct physical access to the cable/camera If it is on, is there any way an attacker can tell if its being viewed/recorded or not with access to the camera/cables but no access to the recording/viewing roo...

@Adnan Did you VTC as too localized? I thought it's actually more leaning towards the exact opposite - too broad :O
09:44
@TildalWave Yes I did.
@TildalWave I meant to choose NaRQ.
@TildalWave @D3C4FF I do like the question, it's fun and exciting. I just don't think it's a good fit here. Tons of types of cameras, tons of models for each type, and tons of installation-specific settings for each model. It's a good question, but it's bad for Sec.SE
@TildalWave I'm now actually reminded of your balls-licking outburst, remember? You already think it's too broad, yet you didn't cast your vote.
@Adnan yup NaRQ would make more sense, I was just confused with the choice... maybe you were thinking "close - circuit" ... hmmm "too localized" ? :))
i know, it was early morning :)
@Adnan no I said maybe... and since @D3C4FF is often here, we can ask him easily to add stuff to the question
@Adnan and it wasn't "outburst" I'm still equally partial to that question as I always was... my VTC on it is there since when I also posted that "answer"
just to be clear - that's from before the top rated answer on it
HIPSTER ALERT!!
2
Q: Asynchronous vs. Synchronous authentication process

Ko IchiI'm currently developing a web application using Node.js (server-side JavaScript) and MongoDB (NoSQL database). I'm at the stage where I have to design the authentication and I had a question about asynchronous programming. One of the advantages of using Node.js is that everything can be progra...

> I'm currently developing a web application using Node.js (server-side JavaScript) and MongoDB (NoSQL database).
@LucasKauffman :)
@Adnan Shush you. MongoDB is awesome.
10:07
McAfee is gone completely nuts: mobile.theverge.com/2013/6/19/4444266/…
10:17
@LucasKauffman NSFW
FUCK PHP!!! FUCK PHP IN ALL HOLES POSSIBLE!!!
5
Fucking incompetent "developers"!
Bug:bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=38805 Reported in 2006. Fixed in the release in 2012!!!!
@Adnan Fucking <s>incompetent</s> developers!
and it's not a small cosmetic bug
it's HUGE critical bug
Well that's why we try to avoid PHP
Interesting, that message got exactly 3 stars.
Somewhere in the world there's a Sasha giggling
10:38
@TerryChia I think you forgot to assign the user_id to the session
@LucasKauffman That should be done by the login_user() function of the Flask-Login library though..
@LucasKauffman ah come on that video is hillarious, I'd say he was parodying what people say about him :)
@Adnan There are a few different types of cameras, but not that many, there's CCD/CMOS, CCTV(coax)/IP(cat5e), IR LED enabled/not present, ones with LED's/No LED's
All the cameras are more or less variations of eachother, the same as computers... More or less the same all the time, any wierd vulnerabilities that anyone knows of can be pointed out and maybe i can adapt that towards future attacks
@Adnan as a side note, I have a pretty good understanding of physical security stuff already, but i like getting extra ideas input from people here, @TildalWave's idea regarding watching wireless camera's network bandwidth was an excellent idea and one i'll have to try in the future :)
11:26
anybody interesting in going to the OWASP EU conference? August in Hamburg, again I know nothing beyond what it says on the site...
Hmm, that looks damn pricey. our regional conf is always free, by definition...
@AviD be an OWASP leader, you can get a free ticket IIRC :) (although the hotels still ain't cheap!)
I was thinking of going to TBH probably conferenced out for now..
@RoryMcCune booyah, I am. Flights are where I'm costed out...
@RoryMcCune yeah, I thought that was pretty obvious. 'Course it doesnt mean he's NOT raving batshit insane.
@AviD ahh ..
@AviD you'd hope, but then if people really have been sending him messages about uninstalling the software for 15 years it does imply a lack of intelligence in some people :)
@AviD no but insane + money = eccentric which is always ok.
@RoryMcCune not sure, but the flight alone is probably 50% more expensive than the conf. Unless somebody's paying my way, Imma have to take a pass.
11:30
@RoryMcCune weeelll.... Charlie Sheen...?
@AviD yeah I dunno if they're covering travel stuff for anyone..
@AviD he seemed to recover from it ok, hell he did a tour off the back of being nuts and people actually bought tickets to see it!
@RoryMcCune I dont know if they still do, but they used to cover for the global leaders. Remember that all-expenses holiday in Portugal?
@RoryMcCune 'course they did, everybody loves seeing a trainwreck.
damn rubberneckers.
@AviD heh yeah I do (wasn't there myself) that was not a cheap experience for OWASP..
@RoryMcCune neither was I... but it did make me view the fiscal aspect of owasp in a different light. (I.E. I aint givin' them my personal money...)
11:54
@D3C4FF I already know that. It's obvious from your answers and questions, but that's not the point. This question specifically, I don't think it fits here. Whether it's good or not in general is irrelevant.
@D3C4FF oh cool :) and also nice that it was posted as a separate thread, so it fits with Q&A better here... good answer also. IIRC you'd get slightly better results with green lasers than with the red ones due to the light frequency they produce, but I don't think it matters that much (the intensity is what prolly counts a lot more)
i.e. laser's Watt rating
On a totally different topic
@Adnan hehe congrats! enjoy it while it lasts, it's your last day in the 4-figure league :P
@TildalWave Once I get a K, you'll start addressing me with "my Lord"
@Adnan Ah, so you are into that?
12:02
@TerryChia Or better, "your grace"
@Adnan yes m'lordy! :)
@TildalWave Speaking of Lordi youtube.com/watch?v=uGe8qID9gSs
12:23
@Adnan congrats!
@AviD Can I suspend your account now?
heh, go for it.
@TildalWave Yeah obviously the power has something to do with it, but actually the lens had a lot as well, if its super wide, it works less effectively, if its tele, it'll work better. If you want to distract the camera you simply need to shine it as your moving around, to do permanent damage you need 3+Watts and to have it focused for a length of time (Depends on lens/ccd/etc)
@TildalWave there's a security shop that i came across once that sold CCTV cameras, and as an ad they had about 20 cameras set up around their shop front, Its been on my todo list for ages to go buy a stack of really cheap red laser pointers and the same number of tripods and aim them all at their system, then slipping cat pictures under their door :P THEY'LL NEVER KNOW
@D3C4FF Oh sure the camera's lense will diffract the light ... you have to account for lense elements, focal point,... you name it. Tho I'm pretty sure a 5W white/green laser will completely fry all current CMOS/CCD sensors, maybe even 2.5-3W ones
@AviD Jesus! So many things in the Tools.
12:32
@Adnan Toys toys everywhere! :-)
@AviD I didn't ask you to describe your bedroom.
Badam tsss
@D3C4FF if you know exactly what type of process the sensor was built on, you could then adjust with your laser shopping :) but white/green will obviously give the best power in the visual spectrum, something the sensors were built for
hehe
@Adnan I think @AviD's toys are in his lair.
@TerryChia I think, I think, that @Adnan was referring to sex toys.
12:34
@TildalWave Yeah, if you had the time for a proper lengthy engagement, you'd scope out the system before hand, figure out the exact makes and models of the cameras, purchase them yourself and test them in the lab to determine all the characteristics, that's what we've done in the past and its worked pretty well :)
@AviD Oh cmon, you are telling me you have nothing of that sort in your lair? What kind of supervillian are you? ;)
hehehe
0
Q: How to be sure content was generated on a specific software?

user27396I am developing an open source software. This software generates content that is sent to a server for publishing. Anyone can get this software and generate content. The API for publishing at the server is also public. (Can be changed if necessary). Is there a way I can make sure the content was...

Pretty much impossible. Am I wrong?
I wanna sleep.
@Simon Go on, @AviD is waiting.
12:42
@TerryChia That sounds so creepy.
@Simon I think thats the way he meant it.
@Simon It is meant to sound like that. ;)
@TildalWave i haven't seen these before : 2bsecurity.com/OHS1000-camera-housing.html
Self cleaning CCTV?
I felt the need to mention it anyway, boyz.
@D3C4FF yes these are pretty frequently used here... watch it tho, some might have pretty good light filters on them too, limiting your options with lasers. Even the polarizer filter will render it less effective ;)
12:47
@TerryChia Goddamnit.
@ScottPack That's what she said!
A lot of them wouldn't have a screen wiper but a rolled thin transparent screen that the motor moves back and forth constantly, wiping the screen in the process
You know it's gonna be a great day when your boss wants to talk to you in private to give you a salary raise.
@TildalWave I always get the feeling Australia is rather behind with these interesting security do-dads
@D3C4FF neah we just get more bad weather LOL
You could probably put up a normal webcam and be fine with the weather conditions for months on end... not here. Sure it's sunny and hot now, but I bet there's gonna be a storm due to it tonight or by tomorrow
13:01
@TerryChia ah might be
@D3C4FF Hopefully my answer to your meta question is a little more informative than Rory's. His was ok, but I felt was lacking in critical details. He probably wrote that from his phone.
3-hour PSI is 290. Issued 9pm. http://bit.ly/MSSpsi
Holy fuck...
13:20
@ScottPack I kinda didn't get it until I read your last sentence about removing the dreaded "T"... That's a good point, possibly that best that can be said in a single sentence that I've heard of.
@TerryChia PSI is pollution index?
@TildalWave Yeah... the air over here is incredibly hazy right now.
@TerryChia hmmm that's not nice to be in, better stay indoors IMO
@TildalWave Yup. Staying indoors with all the windows closed.
On another topic, I am finally doing the crypto course on coursera. Pretty interesting so far.
@TerryChia Crypto I or Crypto II?
@Adnan Crypto I.
13:28
@TerryChia Are you sure?
As far as I can see, the one happening right now is Crypto II
I've finished Crypto I a month ago
@Adnan that's in July... last I checked we're still in June :) At least I hope so LOL
@TerryChia Wow! Thank you! I totally missed that one.
@Terry This course must be taken at least two times (at least for me)
I've signed up
@Adnan I think I'm gonna be in the same boat. ;)
14:06
God damn it! I posted a big ass answer on the HTTPS question only to realize that the whole Wireshark is irrelevant.
0
Q: Is it safe to connect mobile devices to rental cars?

Lord TorgamusMany modern cars feature Bluetooth connections and USB ports that allow passengers to connect them with mobile phones and digital music players (and smartphones, which serve as both). Is it safe to use these features in rental cars? Could data on the device be stolen? Could the devices themselves...

is this NC?
@LucasKauffman I think it's fairly ok.
@LucasKauffman This boils down to: If a device pairs to mine, what can the other device do?
Which has already been answered in makerofthings7's question
AKA my big-ass bluetooth answer
@Adnan link me so I can VTC
17
Q: What can an attacker do with Bluetooth and how should it be mitigated?

makerofthings7What are the security risks of Bluetooth and what technologies and best practices should be used to protect my device? What can an attacker do once a malicious device is paired with mine? Specifically Is it a good idea to remove & re-pair my devices on a set interval (thinking that this is ch...

14:10
@Adnan Eh, not nearly close enough to be considered a dupe...
That question @LucasKauffman linked also asks about USB.
@TerryChia True. BT and USB.
@TerryChia It's just a question, if I connect my device to another device is it safe?
@LucasKauffman Yeah - so answer it unless you can find something closer to it. It's not an exact dupe so it shouldn't be closed as such.
@LucasKauffman A question with a few flawed assumptions attached. (e.g.: rental cars are inherently more of a threat than "factory fresh" cars)
@TerryChia true
14:14
The Bluetooth part boils down to "What can a paired Bluetooth device do to mine?", which has already been answered in "What can an attacker do with Bluetooth and how should it be mitigated?". The USB part has already been answered in Protecting cellphones from USB attacks (a.k.a. Juice Jacking)Adnan 1 min ago
So it's a double dupe
@Adnan Oh, wow - a split duplicate. How do we close that?
@Iszi I don't know that this specifically is a flawed assumption. A parallel - Is a shared kiosk-type computer a greater risk than a brand new PC?
@Iszi I think if it gets 2 votes for each dupe it gets links to both questions
@Xander The flawed assumption is that the factory workers and dealership workers are more trustworthy than anyone else who might handle the system.
@Iszi I think closing it as NARQ (overly broad) works? The comments will point to the other questions.
14:17
@Adnan No, because it takes 5 to close - there will always be an odd one out.
@Iszi Oh my god! NO?! It does?! Really? 5!!! I didn't know that!
@TerryChia Or NaRQ (rhetorical) - I went for NC.
@Iszi Here
2
Q: Where to store sensitive client details (MYSQL DB credentials)

0NejiI have a security related question about storing some client information - specifically their database login credentials. My app works based on the client and so the database details need to be set at the start. My initial thought was to hold it all in a MYSQL database table but if that gets com...

@Adnan You bring up an interesting point though. I have seen closed questions on other sites pointing to multiple dupes. I don't think I seen one over here. How does that work?
@Xander Is a rental/kiosk more likely to have been compromised than a "factory fresh" system? Certainly. However, is it inherently more susceptible to compromise? Not really.
14:19
@Adnan Ahh! Interesting..
@Adnan I think that requires moderator action.
@TerryChia Like I said, I think it works like that, 2 votes for each dupe. But you know @Iszi.. he's, well, him.
@Iszi I think that's why I said "I think"
Now we need TL VTC and we'll get a xmas tree
@Iszi I don't see that as an assumption. It's a given that a far greater number of individuals have access to a rental car, and many of those individuals have no vested interest in your experience with that car. That creates more attack opportunities and less pressure to conform, which intrinsically raises the level of risk without having to assume the trustworthiness of any single individual in either system.
@Adnan heh.
@Xander Yes, but the system could just as easily have been exploited at the factory or dealership. Again, it's more likely that it would be done on a kiosk or rental, but still just as easily done on any system.
14:23
@Iszi Oh sure, that's absolutely true, but that's only a single factor in the overall risk assessment.
I find it stupid that Apple doesn't offer 16GB of RAM on the Air. :( Perfect machine otherwise.
@TerryChia Agreed. Particularly the 11 inch. I don't really care for the keyboard on the 13 inch.
But that's just personal preference.
@Xander Eh? The keyboards are the exact same thing no?..
@TerryChia Nope. The spacing between the keys is significantly greater on the 13.
@TerryChia You can always download more (posted my Manish)
14:25
@Xander Huh. I have a 11", my friend has a 13" Air and another friend has a 15" Pro. Can't say I noticed any difference. Not really that picky though. :P
But I wish I could afford to upgrade my 2010 Air to the latest Haswell ones. :( 2GB of RAM is getting a little stupid now.
@TerryChia Huh, I dunno then. I played with both the 11 and the 13 at the Apple store around Christmas, and they were quite different.
> You get the same size keyboard from the 11-inch MacBook Air all the way up to the 17-inch MacBook Pro.
Granted it's an old review, but nothing has changed.
@TerryChia Yuck
@Iszi What?
One of my favorite features of large PC laptops is the addition of a number pad. Seems like a waste of real estate for Apple to not do the same.
14:30
@TerryChia No, there's definitely a difference. You can see it pretty clearly here:
(That's a 2010 appleinsider review)
Maybe less of a difference than I remember, but they sure did seem to feel different to me when I was typing on them.
@Xander Hmm, it appears that the function keys are somewhat larger. Interesting. Never really noticed the difference till now.
@Iszi I don't miss the number pad that much. I barely use it with my desktop keyboard.
@TerryChia Yeah, rough measurements from the image show that the bottom row of keys are all taller by a couple of pixels, the arrow keys are bigger, the function keys are bigger, and there appears to be an extra pixel's worth of spacing between the rows. Can't say exactly though.
We need more Close Hammers. @Ladada and @Manish should get to 3k
@adnan I think you can help me reach that wink wink
@ManishEarth ahhhm!
14:52
There's nothing in the close queueueueue
@Adnan It looks like it doesn't even need two of each. That might be part of the re-work on close-as-dupe that they did awhile back.
15:12
@TerryChia Haa! In @Iszi's face!
15:22
@Adnan nasty
@TerryChia stop breathing!
This Joffrey boy is such an arsehole!
@Adnan What an understatement.
@Adnan Where are you?
@ScottPack I think S02E5
@Adnan Ah, ok. Yeah. He gets worse.
@Adnan Has he enjoyed his birthday present from Tyrion yet?
15:31
@ScottPack Ugh. That scene was godawful.
@ScottPack Yes he has
@TerryChia Why?
@Adnan Shows exactly how cruel Joeffry is.
It begins to show how broken a person Joffrey is.
I think this character is just a reflection of the author's own opinion about incest.
Could be.
15:39
> Every time a new Targaryen is born, he said, the gods toss the coin in the air and the world holds its breath to see how it will land.
Beat me to it.
But, yeah, the Targaryens were notoriously insane, but not always.
Of the 4 Targaryens we have good information on, within the show, 2 were out of control (if not insane) and 2 were great.
@ScottPack Which 2? Aemon and Daenarys?
Maester Aemon and Daenerys being the good ones.
Viserys being out of control, if not proper crazy, and Aerys II being batshit insane.
@ScottPack The other Targaryen later in the series seems pretty normal as well.
@TerryChia Oh yeah, I had forgotten about him.
15:49
@DavidHogue Is it true what they say about Portland?
@D3C4FF I think I need your help with a small project. I'm trying to make a proximity sensor that'd lock my computer when I step away.
@scott you forgot Rhaegar
@D3C4FF A sensor would fire a signal, a basic IC would take that signal and fire some signal to the computer. In my inexperienced opinion, I thought that a keyboard signal is the easiest. What do you think?
@ManishEarth From the show we really don't know much about him.
Ah
And <Targaryen #6> hasn't yet arrived
@Adnan Use an Arduino with a proximity sensor? That should be the easiest way.
15:58
@ManishEarth The hotly speculated but not proven natural born Targaryen?
@scott no, the noble born Targaryen.
I'm not talking about r+l=j here
@scott though there is speculation that he's not who he says he is.
Book 5, iirc
@Adnan What do they say about Portland?
@ManishEarth You talking about r+e=a?
16:10
@terry ...whoa
@scott yeppers
@TerryChia Yup.
@TerryChia Hmm... how can I send the signal to the computer?
@DavidHogue Lots of stuff. My opinion of Portland comes mainly from the TV show Portlandia
@Adnan I think Arduino has USB/Serial interface for communications.
Might wanna look into it, should be easier than implementing something from scratch.
@TerryChia So I should also have something on the computer waiting for the signal?
@TerryChia I have already done basic servo stuff with Arduino, but never actually done something that sends signal back to the computer
@Adnan Yeah probably. I don't have that much experience with it though.
If it can send USB signals it should be (relatively) simple to write something to read it.
16:21
@Terry Cool. I found this. I guess I could just send Win+L and be done with it. No listener, nothing
@Adnan I work from home in the suburbs, so for me it's not too different than any other suburb. Downtown though I do see plenty of skinny jeans and food carts everywhere. Oh and our old neighbors actually did have a pair of chickens...
@terry @adnan arduino does have a usb serial interface. It works well with matlab and labview
@ManishEarth Parfait!
I just noticed this: zamfoo.com/updatezamfoo
Who the fuck does software updates in this manner?
@ManishEarth Only slightly more concrete than Mr. J. :) He was also not a product of Sin against the 7.
16:30
@TerryChia ZamFoo!
@TerryChia @RoryMcCune posted yesterday or the day before. This guy, apparently. webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1275572
@Xander Yeah, I was following up on that thread.
Requesting the root password to my server?!?!?!
@TerryChia Ah! Ok.
Wow, and no encryption of any kind on that form?
X-Frame-Options has the be the best innovation by Microsoft.
16:36
@DavidHogue Yeah... Plus the last few pages of that thread has a hilarious amount of laughably easy exploits posted...
I bet I could run nikto against his server and come up with a lot of nice goodies, no effort needed...
Root Password (Special Characters May Not Work):
Get out of here.
@TerryChia Seems legit
@ScottPack The sad thing is that it is completely legit.
@ScottPack Look at this perl script. pastebin.com/vKQbhYwE
Did a little part of you die?
I'm too busy giggling
Did you notice the example IP address?
16:48
@ScottPack heh yeah. localhost ftw!
Look again, bigboy
> IP Address (123.456.789.123):
@ScottPack Wait, which part are you looking at now?
Ah the form.
Look at the perl script, line 50 to 63.
Best way to determine perl version. EVAH.
16:52
@terry what's,wrong on the reddit comment?
@ManishEarth That's how the software updates itself. It asks for your server's root password on a HTTP form, donwloads a CGI script and executes it...
It also requires root access, it won't attempt to elevate. Meaning sshd must be permitted to allow root login.
@ScottPack Good point. facepalm
I dropped it in the Comms Room. They're having a blast too.
@terry ohhh. I didn't see the form, only the bash script. Which didn't look too bad
16:56
I should probably go back to the office now.
Well, I had a good laugh. I'm gonna go sleep now.
Good day. :)
0
Q: Is it bad to make a new password similar to an old one?

CeleritasIs it bad to make a new password similar to an old one? For example if one followed some sort of pattern such as adding more numbers inbetween words.

I flagged it as duplicate and found out that the duplicate was by the same user.
morning
17:12
@Simon Apparently the author agrees with you, since he just deleted the question.
@Xander That's funny, I guess he didn't remember he posted the very same question a year ago.
@Xander But but but how? How did he manage to do that?
@Adnan Sorry @Adnan, no repwhoring.
Just too late to pull you over the 10k @adnan :(
@Adnan By clicking the "Delete" button perhaps? :-P
17:22
@Simon I said "how" not "why".
@Xander I actually meant how did he manage to make a dupe of his own question like that.
Haha, nobody understood your question correctly.
@Xander Interestingly, it was asked almost 11 months ago
@LucasKauffman You wanted to do the honor?
@Adnan LOL! Ah, ok, that makes more sense. :-) And I haven't the foggiest clue.
Yes :( I wanted to be that special person you know
@Adnan Maybe he didn't get the answer he wanted the first time, and was trying again?
He did accept an answer last time though, so I find that scenario to be unlikely.
17:25
@TidalWave just found out my dad still had a limited edition Duvel triple hop from 2010 in his cabinet, apparently it will go bad next month. Now poor old me will have to drink it
@LucasKauffman Nice!! You'll have to report back after drinking it.
@Lucas Go ahead. You can do it now!
@Lucas Come on! I'm waiting!
Nevermind.
@LucasKauffman How was it?
@LucasKauffman Yaaay!
@Lucas Wanna cuddle now?
@David Hey hey hey! What's up, David?
17:36
@Adnan howdy
t-2 days
:D
Bro cuddle!
I enjoy non-sweaty non-stinky cuddles.
@David Until you change your orientation?
@LucasKauffman Hmmm.. let's google that.
@ScottPack Non-sweaty?!! Well it's not a cuddle anymore then!
@David But seriously, have fun. It's all downhill after those awesome days.
17:51
@Adnan until i'm done @ this dreadful workplace lol
4 hours remain of today, then 5 on Friday (which includes an hour-long going-away lunch and a 1-2 hour staff meeting)
@David Yaaaay!
@David what will you do afterwards?
i have a 6-week summer class that starts Monday, then 2-3 weeks after that I'll be moving in @ CSU Monterey
00:00 - 18:0019:00 - 00:00

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