The DMZ

Stack Exchange

04:11

Now, if it selectively kills cancer cells in a petri dish, you can be sure it's at least a great breakthrough for everyone suffering from petri dish cancer.

D3C4FF

@RoryAlsop Cool stuff :)

D3C4FF

07:58

Cheese is some strange stuff...

Terry Chia

@D3C4FF So's your face.

D3C4FF

@TerryChia Duuude. I KNOW. You should see what i made it out of. All these itsy-bitsy tiny little cells made out of atoms

Adnan

@D3C4FF Checking Australian time to see if you're drunk..

2

@D3C4FF Why is it strange?

D3C4FF

@Adnan Not even drunk.

@Adnan Cause. Its texture is always wierd. It 'sweats' from time to time. Sometimes it looks like plastic or rubber or dried concrete...

Its grown cause of mould.

Its all kinds of strange.

Lucas Kauffman

08:17

@D3C4FF but you are australian, you are required to be drunk and play on a didgeridoo while having a BBQ :(

5

D3C4FF

@LucasKauffman Y'know, i was thinking about getting a didgeridoo the other day. I was like, "Mang. I'm unaustralian. I don't even have a freakin' didgeridoo!"

Terry Chia

@LucasKauffman Hey don't diss the australians. It's a wonder any of them are still alive with all the creepy shit on that continent.

D3C4FF

I've mastered the getting drunk while having a BBQ however

@TerryChia At least we don't have lizards that shoot blood from their eyes

Terry Chia

@D3C4FF Yet.

Evolution bitches. Wait for it.

Lucas Kauffman

@D3C4FF where do they have lizards who shoot blood from their eyes

D3C4FF

08:21

@TerryChia If i could ejaculate blood from my eye as a self defence mechanism, i'd drop my muay thai classes!

►

Terry Chia

@D3C4FF Holy shit.

Adnan

@D3C4FF JESUS!

D3C4FF

@TerryChia @LucasKauffman @Adnan clearly you guys didn't ever visit museums as kids :P

Lucas Kauffman

@D3C4FF I have, but we have like bunnies and birds

Adnan

@D3C4FF Not one that has that

D3C4FF

08:25

AND I JIZZED FROM MY EYES

Lucas Kauffman

not lizards with freakn blood beams

D3C4FF

@LucasKauffman Anyway. I just feel that cheese is stranger than blood beam lizards.

Adnan

@D3C4FF Ah.. memories..

D3C4FF

@Adnan At least someone got the reference :P

Adnan

@D3C4FF I got a reference by an Australian guy, and I.. JIZZED .. FROM.. MY EYES

2

D3C4FF

08:29

@Adnan I lold'd

@AviD for your next build: forum.coolermaster.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=15726

Adnan

@D3C4FF Laugh more

D3C4FF

@Adnan lulz acquired.

Adnan

@D3C4FF When you're trying to procrastinate, check their other videos. Very decent comedy channel

D3C4FF

08:47

@Adnan If there's one thing i can do. Its procrastinate!

AviD

08:58

@D3C4FF wow. that's.... pretty cool. and a hella lot of work....

the tables at least can be bought online... standard equipment for some companies, like Fog Creek.

at first I thought it was going to be table top computing... a neighbor of mine was telling me he wants to build one. Take a bunch of panels stripped from tablets, wire them all together and solder them on to a table frame... etc.

Adnan

09:10

@D3C4FF AMAZING!!

►

TildalWave

11:23

@D3C4FF hehe thanks but it turns out I fell asleep anyway due to sheer boredom... this Sunday was probably one of the least interesting that ever happened, and there was no Game of Thrones either, not to even mention loads of uninteresting questions here, most off-topic too

Rory Alsop

Now that is the desk I need. That would help my back immensely

TildalWave

@Adnan hey it's got built-in groin area fans... that's cool :))

2

Terry Chia

11:49

2

Q: Why RSA uses {d,n} as private key instead of {e,n}?

While studying the RSA algorithm I referred to some books and some sites such as RSA (wikipedia) and all of them chose {d,n} as the secret (private) key and release {e,n} as the public key but as d and e are multiplicative inverse of each other, can't we keep {e,n} as private key and use the othe...

@RoryAlsop, @AviD throw this one over to crypto?

AviD

12:20

@RoryAlsop check this one out: store.steelcase.com/products/airtouch-height-adjustable-desk

or go full desmond with this: store.steelcase.com/products/treadmill-desks-sit-to-walkstation

@TerryChia thrown.

TildalWave

It's incredible how many questions we get that are OT or really poor quality of late. What gives?

@AviD bloody hell that's expensive for a few sleeve motors and a few buttons

AviD

@TildalWave sure, but supposedly its really high quality.

you could say the same of an Aeron chair, but you cant compare to a regular chair.

TildalWave

12:36

@AviD I still find kneeling chairs most comfortable for desk work... good for back, comfortable once you get used to it (shouldn't take long), some are pretty compact and they don't cost much

Kneeling chair

A kneeling chair is a type of chair for sitting in a position with the thighs dropped to an angle of about 60 to 70 degrees from vertical (as opposed to 90 degrees when sitting in a normal chair), with some of the body's weight supported by the shins. The original kneeling chair was the Balans chair, which was developed in 1979 by Hans Christian Mengshoel and the designers Oddvin Rykken, Svein Gusrud and Peter Opsvik. Purpose The intended purpose of a kneeling chair is to reduce lower back strain by dividing the burden of the weight to the knees as well as the buttocks. People with ...

And there's even a Wiki page for them, of course :))

Terry Chia

@TildalWave There is a Wiki page for everything.

TildalWave

Everything

Everything (or every thing), is all that exists; the opposite of nothing, or its complement. The totality of things relevant to some subject matter. Without expressed or implied limits, it may refer to anything. The Universe is often defined as everything that exists. It may refer to an anthropocentric worldview, or the sum of human experience, history, and the human condition in general. Theory of everything In theoretical physics, a theory of everything (TOE) is a theory that would explain and unify all known fundamental interactions of nature in a single model. Originally, the term wa...

True :)

AviD

12:56

@TildalWave yeah, I like them - but only for a short while. Tried using it for real work, only lasted a few hours...

D3C4FF

13:43

Hey @polynomial, this question: security.stackexchange.com/questions/36521/…

shows up here: ds4jilljigehsjilla.blogspot.com.au/2013/05/…

And then links to all these blogs... blogger.com/profile/09689621664024125602

which looks like they've all just ripped content outta SE sites and started blogs with them (for some reason?)

@Adnan @AviD Its awesome ey? The dudes level of craftsmanship is outstanding!

TildalWave

@D3C4FF I've seen same for other questions here, it appears to be some scrapper bot that creates blog posts automagically... have you been checking those pages for any reason behind it? Might be some lame scheme again

D3C4FF

@TildalWave Agreed, its been fairly shit. And i spent 12 hours of saturday underground in 6 degree water... And now my arms and legs are bruised and torn to shreds.

@TildalWave I just noticed now. I just decided to google that question for the hell of it.

TildalWave

14:19

@D3C4FF awww I know the feeling, not nice. Alcohol patches should work a bit for that, but prolly best you could do is not waste alcohol on your skin and rather drink it :) You're probably cold till your bones, literally

D3C4FF

@TildalWave im already on the cider feelin' sleepy :P

TildalWave

@D3C4FF you should probably better consider some stiffer drinks than that... and if you have dextrose candy of something like that... I can't pretend I'm too knowledgeable about local hypothermia but I've suffered it also, mostly legs too... stiff drinks seem to help a lot, and probably an advice you won't get at the doctor LOL

D3C4FF

@TildalWave I could crack out the gin?

Maybe see if i can't find a nice bottle of tequila on my shelf somewhere...

TildalWave

@D3C4FF that should be good enough... I don't think bones care much for the taste :)

D3C4FF

@TildalWave Pish posh, my bones are basically made of alcohol and cave mud

3

@Copy @paste @Copy @paste @Copy @paste @Copy @paste @Copy @paste @Copy @paste @Copy @paste @Copy @paste @Copy @paste @Copy @paste @Copy @paste

TildalWave

14:26

hehe

vignesh4303

@D3C4FF lol

copy paste

D3C4FF

@vignesh4303 indeed

vignesh4303

@D3C4FF how is u

D3C4FF

@vignesh4303 i is good

u?

vignesh4303

yup doing well

:)

i heard u dig atms

normally what os does atm system uses friend

D3C4FF

14:33

@vignesh4303 No, i dig caves

vignesh4303

for wine ? :(

@D3C4FF

D3C4FF

@vignesh4303 For fun!

@vignesh4303 ATM's use windows a large portion of the time

vignesh4303

li read some stuff related to atm

got curoius while i read about skimming technicques

unless the physicall access to device the atm can't be hacked right

@D3C4FF

D3C4FF

@vignesh4303 no

vignesh4303

no ? one min i once read this

126

Q: How is an ATM secure?

I'm curious why an ATM computer is considered secure. The general adage of "If an attacker has physical access to my machine, all bets are off," seems to not apply in this circumstance (since everyone has physical access to the machine). Why is this? I thought of the fact that many have securi...

attack-prevention physical atm

TildalWave

14:37

@D3C4FF congrats on the electorate badge! Now you can finally start voting on answers too :P hehe

vignesh4303

@D3C4FF according to accepted answer

Get the machine out of the vault and away from supervision and then yes... all bets are off.

so unless physicall access it cant be hacked/spoofed?

TildalWave

@D3C4FF send him that blackhat youtube link with ATM jackpot machine :))

vignesh4303

lol

@TildalWave

Terry Chia

@TildalWave I'm still sad that Barnaby Jack didn't turn up at syscan this year. :(

D3C4FF

►

TildalWave

14:39

►

D3C4FF

@TildalWave :P Yeah i know right. Fark it takes forever to get that.

vignesh4303

one min let me clarify one thing friend

D3C4FF

@TildalWave Glorious days

vignesh4303

@D3C4FF see the above image is it how atm works right?

D3C4FF

@vignesh4303 Just remember "You don't hack a bank across state lines from your house, you'll get nailed by the FBI."

@vignesh4303 Sure. Some networks yeah

vignesh4303

14:41

@D3C4FF just asking in curiousity does man in middle attack possible at linking ip part?

i mean what will happen when a person breach the central iplink access which connects the two atm's

correct me if i am wrong friend

Terry Chia

@vignesh4303 The ATM networks probably doesn't have an Ethernet port lying around for you to plug in.

D3C4FF

@vignesh4303 You mean the "Links - Any IP network" cloudy-thing in that diagram? That's just the 'internet'

vignesh4303

@D3C4FF oh got it now :)

D3C4FF

@TerryChia Actually, you'd be suprised :P

Terry Chia

@D3C4FF heh.

vignesh4303

14:43

@TerryChia got it friend nice website your 's :) keep update of it

@D3C4FF any website for u friend ?

bliog/

Terry Chia

From that diagram it appears that everything is going through a VPN anyway. So all that encryption voodoo.

D3C4FF

@vignesh4303 Not one that i link to this user name

vignesh4303

@D3C4FF cant get u :(

Terry Chia

@D3C4FF You probably have some weird shit on tumblr. ;)

3

D3C4FF

@TerryChia I thought tumblr was designed explicitly for weird shit...

Terry Chia

14:46

@D3C4FF Probably, but not everyone has a tumblr account.

vignesh4303

@D3C4FF one more doubt how atm's accept fake debit cards with same pin

is it there no other way to prevent it

i have heard about news that many manufacture fake debit cards

and loot the money

D3C4FF

Oh. Anyone who reads this, next time your at an ATM or EFTPOS terminal and using a debit card (NOT A CREDIT CARD) try enter your pin number xxxx followed by as many digits as the machine will accept ie xxx18852895255555555550054

Chances are high, it'll accept the pin as valid

copy

@D3C4FF Oh, hi 14600959

D3C4FF

@copy :)

vignesh4303

@D3C4FF what will happen if i do this

hope it wont connect to fbi :(

D3C4FF

14:49

@vignesh4303 It should accept the transaction regardless. as long as the first 4 digits are correct, it'll ignore the rest.

vignesh4303

does the atm response code is same for all countries?

D3C4FF

It seems you can't code EFTPOS cards with more than 4 digit pins

@vignesh4303 dunno

vignesh4303

my just assumption so all the pins would be 0000 to 9999

D3C4FF

@vignesh4303 No shit

vignesh4303

no :(

ok friend guide me

D3C4FF

14:51

@vignesh4303 pastebin.com/2qbRKh3R Look. Its a leak of ALL CREDIT CARD PIN CODES

6

Terry Chia

@D3C4FF hahahaha!

TildalWave

@D3C4FF good one

vignesh4303

yup so as i said 0000 to 9999

is correct

@D3C4FF

copy

@D3C4FF Are you a wizard?

Terry Chia

@copy I think he's a pixie.

vignesh4303

14:52

@D3C4FF dont say to adnan same answer he will try with his atm :D

Terry Chia

Or some weird Australian thing.

D3C4FF

@TerryChia @Copy Eye blood ejaculating ATM god

@vignesh4303 @Adnan loves discussing ATMs

vignesh4303

@D3C4FF oops he is not here today :(

he flyed at rocket and never came back :(

D3C4FF

@vignesh4303 Yeah @Adnan will do that...

>_>

vignesh4303

hope he is not testing security of space :P

@D3C4FF

ok friends take care catch you all later time for testing :)

D3C4FF

15:02

Yer i'm out to. Later @TerryChia @TildalWave

TildalWave

@D3C4FF take care ;)

Adnan

@D3C4FF Indeed! I'm very impressed!

@D3C4FF I don't like ATMs.

Rory Alsop

15:16

@Adnan ... that was just possibly @D3C4FF's point :-)

How are all you this fine afternoon

...friends

Terry Chia

@RoryAlsop Can't resist can you?

Rory Alsop

@TerryChia not when its handed to me on a platter....nope

Adnan

@RoryAlsop Marvellous! How about you?

Terry Chia

@RoryAlsop @Adnan Dammit stop being polite. It's weird around here.

TildalWave

@RoryAlsop sunny, slowly getting warmer, and windy... and the weather is much the same :))

Rory Alsop

15:24

@TildalWave hahahahaha

I'm plinking on my new twin-neck Gibson SG...it's a good day :-)

Adnan

Jesus! The news from the UK, France, and Sweden are quite unsettling.

Rory Alsop

@Adnan Oh? I don't watch the news - have realised the value of it is almost nil. If there is something important, someone will tell me :-)

So what's happening here?

Adnan

@RoryAlsop The plane bomb threat thing

@RoryAlsop EDL riots

TildalWave

@RoryAlsop really dull actually ... I was complaining about it before. DMZ is as per usual (dunno where @ScottPack got stuck of late tho) but the site is sloooow and off-topic

Rory Alsop

@Adnan oh - luckily I'm mostly oblivious to that sort of thing

I saw a plane had a problem with its engine the other day, but that is only because I was with someone whose plane was cancelled as a result

@Adnan And I don't think the EDL exist up here in Scotland

@TildalWave Yes - I saw a range of odd, poor quality questions - I'll need to go and look at the mod stats, to see if they are coming from somewhere new

TildalWave

15:30

Terry Chia

@TildalWave I think he is busy finalizing his evil SE domination plans once he is a mod.

Rory Alsop

One really cool thing to see: the crap questions are getting closed really quickly without mods even needing to be invoked :-)

TildalWave

@RoryAlsop This one? EDS 1275?

Rory Alsop

@TildalWave Yep - it looks exactly like that

Rory McCune

@RoryAlsop I'm well do you have any more pictures of @polynomial perhaps?

Rory Alsop

15:30

@RoryMcCune hahahha

@RoryMcCune Had a bank holiday today:-) so have been boosting the livi portals. Edinburgh was roundly smurfed over the weekend, so I'm planning some retaliation this week :-)

Adnan

@RoryAlsop This one is some Pakistani-British guy tried to get into the cockpit, when they wouldn't let him, he said "don't talk to us or I'll blow this plane up".

TildalWave

@RoryAlsop I've been playing with it a few years back, it's got a really nice sound IMO... slightly mellow maybe, but that's to my liking +

@TerryChia Yup seems that way

Rory Alsop

@TildalWave My last two guitars definitely aren't suitable for Metaltech (Telecaster and this twin neck) but I have wanted them for so long that I had to get them when I spotted them at a good price

Rory McCune

@RoryAlsop yeah I was through Edi today, but didn't get time to play with the portals (wish ingress had a windows phone client) so settled for annoying the legion (QONQR equivalent of smufs) while on the train

Rory Alsop

@RoryMcCune hahahaha - I have looked at the QONQR thing - but I may have reached my available timeslicing limit. Thinking this might be the year to hand over IISP chair to someone new

TildalWave

15:33

@RoryAlsop Frankly I don't usually like twin neck guitars because they're kinda bulky but this one fits remarkably well actually .... and the colour is in real a whole lot nicer than on photos

Rory Alsop

@TildalWave yeah - they are wonderfully impractical. Although I did once nearly buy an 8 neck guitar. If I could have got it home it would have been mine!

Rory McCune

@RoryAlsop yeah it's kind of similar, although requires less moving about so fun for playing from home. I'm ingressing when walking about and then QONQR'ing other times when gaming..

Rory Alsop

TildalWave

@RoryAlsop You fraternise with Bill Bailey? :O

Rory Alsop

It was like that one

Terry Chia

15:35

@RoryAlsop How the hell do you play that?

Rory Alsop

@TerryChia not sure - but it was only £300 so y'know...

@TildalWave Haven't met him yet - but as my lead singer is friends with a lot of the comedy circuit regulars it isn't out of reach of reality during festival time

TildalWave

@TerryChia we have an instrument that suggests how you could play that ... it's called citre (zither in German I believe)

or, you could use it as a surfboard :)

Terry Chia

@TildalWave Something similar exist in the chinese culture as well i think.

TildalWave

@TerryChia yup there's plenty of similar ones... tho they're still quite alive here, not just some ancient folklore

@TerryChia this actually looks a bit more like the neck of sitar

Terry Chia

@TildalWave Well, i only hear it used in traditional chinese orchestra. I wouldn't exactly call that alive.

TildalWave

15:40

@TerryChia no I meant "citre" ... even some girl is now playing them (nice voice too) on our talent show... and you can hear them used by other still existing bands

Terry Chia

@TildalWave hehe. can't say my musical taste are that diverse. the type of songs i listen to don't go anywhere near those type of instruments.

TildalWave

then of course there's Ravi Shankar

Adnan

Hmmm.. I've just tried to login to GMail and I've received the browser's cert warning. I'm a bit concerned now

TildalWave

@TerryChia well I've also played flute in a hard rock/metal band before (among other instruments) and such combinations can be pretty interesting IMO

Terry Chia

@TildalWave well, i mostly listen to pop punk sooooooo. :P

Adnan

15:43

Strange! Same thing with Hotmail.

Terry Chia

mostly just guitar, bass and drums.

Adnan

Could you guys please confirm this for me?

Terry Chia

@Adnan Cert looks fine from my end.

Adnan

@TerryChia GMail and mail.live.com ?

Terry Chia

@Adnan yup.

TildalWave

15:44

@TerryChia pop punk? recent or stuff like Blondie, Clash, Sham 69...?

Adnan

@TerryChia Shit! I'm being MitMed!

Terry Chia

@TildalWave more recent i guess. blink182, green day, sum41. paramore, all time low on the more poppish side.

And I really love JEW. :)

TildalWave

@TerryChia gotcha ;) I'm more of an old-school punk rocker myself but sure, I listen to all kinds of stuff... fusion jazz quite often for example

Terry Chia

@TildalWave Have you listened to The Greatest Generation by The Wonder Years? Just listened to it and it's pretty nice.

YT has a stream of it: youtube.com/…

TildalWave

@TerryChia found the whole album ... it's green day-ish ... I'll leave it on for now, but I didn't hear it before I think

Terry Chia

15:50

@TildalWave hehe. is that a good or bad thing to your ears? i enjoy green day quite a lot but most people seem to hate on them.

TildalWave

@TerryChia Frankly, I don't follow much what's new... every now and then I hear something I like and get the album, otherwise I just stopped being too picky and have radio on, or pick from my collection if those annoy me

Terry Chia

@TildalWave well, i mostly only listen/buy albums of bands i'm already familiar with. once in a while i come across something good on YT though and start listening to their entire catalog.

TildalWave

@TerryChia Pretty good, but will have to listen to it more than once to decide if I'll order it too... maybe it's a bit too teenage rebel-ish and I have tens of dozens of such records in my collection already... tho that's hardly a reason not to get another one :)

►

Terry Chia

@TildalWave Woah that's epic!

Well, I'm gonna go head to bed now. Have a nice day. :)

TildalWave

16:28

@TerryChia thanks Terry, you have a good one too ;)

Scott Pack

19:40

@TildalWave I was out of town for the long weekend. I'm back now.

AviD

Android users: having a bit of a crisis, We need your help.

TildalWave

@ScottPack Went to Wooster to walk your rooster?

AviD

my daughter's phone (galaxy mini, android 4.1 if memory serves) has been hard locked out (wonderful friends, those highschool girls). WiFi and data are off...

only answers I could find on Android Enthusiasts involved either internet, or rooted... I have neither.

Rory Alsop

@ScottPack yay

TildalWave

@AviD what do you mean by hard locked out?

AviD

19:51

I am also not sure which account it wants for unlocking, hers or mine...

Scott Pack

@TildalWave That's a negative. I was about 187 miles from Wooster.

AviD

@TildalWave too many wrong passwords, too many times....

Rory Alsop

@AviD I think you should be able to hard reset - losing all settings etc, but I thought that would work

Oh - you mean you want to know the sequence for a hard reset?

AviD

ah, yeah, trying to avoid that....

TildalWave

@ScottPack Cleveland? Or just in the neighborhood of Athens? Sorry, my ESP is unreliable :P

AviD

19:53

no, trying to avoid the hard reset.

either her password should work, or mine - dont remember which I used to set it up originally....

Scott Pack

@TildalWave A State Park down near Portsmouth.

AviD

hmm, wait a second. usually she has the pattern unlock, that was blocked because of too many wrong patterns. so now its asking for a username/password - which username is it talking about?

Adnan

@AviD I've had this before, it's easy to solve.

@AviD But first do you have the USB debugging option enabled?

AviD

nope

Gilles

@AviD think of it as an opportunity for applied pentesting: see if you can find an exposed JTAG port, or failing that dump the flash memory with a logic probe or whatever the tool is called

Scott Pack

19:55

@AviD Step 1) Plug into a computer and start up ADB. Step 2) Find a hammer.

Unlike @Adnan, my solution works whether you have USB Debugging enabled or not.

AviD

@Gilles heheh, nooo thank you :-)

Adnan

@AviD You're screwed! Hard reset

TildalWave

@ScottPack Oh nice, and I thought you were campaigning... turns out you were just camping :)

Gilles

@ScottPack isn't adb disabled before login?

AviD

@Adnan there ya go! expected / worried that...

Adnan

19:58

@AviD It's asking about your Google account. But of course it's no use, since you have no Internet connection

AviD

@Adnan the one usually in use, or the one used to originally set it up?

I guess the current one...

Adnan

@AviD The one associated with the device.

@AviD How do you know that USB debugging isn't enabled?

TildalWave

@AviD ultratechy.com/…

might be worth a shot dunno

there's 3 methods... didn't read it all, the 1st one seems a bit odd LOL

Adnan

@TildalWave huh.. very interesting.

TildalWave

@ScottPack Any bears in that area? :))

@Adnan yeah maybe dunno I don't care much for these generations of smartphones... wake me up when they'll be able to make calls more interesting ;)

Adnan

20:10

@ScottPack @Xander and other U.S. people. Have you ever come across an ATM that asks you if you want another transaction and it allows you to perform it without re-entering your PIN (or re-swiping your card)?

Scott Pack

@TildalWave We were staying in a cabin, so meh. It's hard to tell.

TildalWave

@Adnan I did here, but not one that would only require you to swipe your card tho... that seems rather stupid to me

Scott Pack

@Gilles Does it matter when you use the hammer?

Adnan

@TildalWave Well, I want 3 things from my phone. Make calls, wake me up as loud as possible, and show me maps.

TildalWave

@Adnan that sounds really far fetched to me... didn't wanna comment on it, since you already did... any replies?

Adnan

20:12

@TildalWave Not yet.

Scott Pack

@Adnan I think most, yes. The multiple transactions are treated as the same session. There are usually relatively short timeouts on that question.

Adnan

@ScottPack So you have experienced that personally? If yes, to which bank the ATM belonged?

TildalWave

@ScottPack on card swipe ATMs?

Adnan

Because I'd like to call some banks/authorities to confirm this.

@TildalWave They have weird ATM systems in the U.S. but I didn't expect something that weird.

@Tildal Oh shoot! I forgot to tell you. Last night I had a dream that I went to Slovenia.

TildalWave

@Adnan well if that's true then it's funny it doesn't happen more frequently, seems like easy pickings to me

Scott Pack

20:16

@Adnan Yes, and a local credit union

@TildalWave Technically yes. It's a momentary capture style swipe.

TildalWave

@ScottPack @Adnan that's the same bank, isn't it? CU?

Adnan

@Tildal We were on the bus going from the airport to the city centre, when a man with a gun stopped us and asked to check our passports.

@TildalWave Hers is called SECU

TildalWave

@Adnan LOL that wouldn't be here then... we're not Italy :))

Scott Pack

@TildalWave Credit Unions are similar to banks, but are something closer to member-owned systems.

TildalWave

@ScottPack that sounds an awful lot like a bank to me, just different ownership structure (?)

@Adnan dunno that one but could that be something like south-east credit union?

Scott Pack

20:22

@TildalWave They operate exactly like banks. Slightly different regulations, I think.

Adnan

@ScottPack I hope you don't mind me asking again just to be sure. So you swipe your card, the card is with you, you enter your PIN, and after that someone could use your account even though they have neither your card nor your PIN, right?

TildalWave

@Adnan Google says State Employees Credit Union... so still some credit union's ATM then, like @ScottPack said (different CU tho)

Scott Pack

@Adnan Yes, that's true. Pretty much every ATM I've seen, though, has a fairly short inactivity timeout.

Adnan

@TildalWave Well, here's something interesting emerecu.ukma.kiev.ua/offline_courses/course86/files/file38/…

Ctrl+F for ASKING_DO_ANOTHER_STATE

@TildalWave If that class represents/mimics a real ATM (I assume it does), then you can clearly see that the next transaction is part of the first transaction under the same PIN check.

I'm a bit shocked.

TildalWave

@Adnan Well that's some course example only, not necessarily applied in real world ... tho obviously some do so... can you imagine this in Europe? There'd be people fighting for who gets to be the next one in that minute from the last one LOL

Scott Pack

20:31

@Adnan Although, to be fair, in my experience the use case that concerns you is much more hardened than the normal usage of an ATM.

From what I've seen the timeout for doing another transaction is on the order of seconds.

Were you, however, to swipe your card, type in your PIN, and then walk away, the timeout is much longer.

Adnan

@TildalWave I was thinking it's simulating the real life application.

@ScottPack Well, makes a bit more sense now

But I still think they should start applying the European standard. At least that virtually eliminate skimming.

Scott Pack

@Adnan Which is?

Adnan

@ScottPack Chip and PIN.

Scott Pack

@Adnan So do all draft cards over there contain a chip?

TildalWave

@Adnan Don't think so it's missing a fair deal of options real ATMs would have.... it's a code sample for some class from some faculty of the University of Kyiv

Adnan

20:35

@ScottPack I don't know what's that. But all ATM cards contain a chip, and you don't get the money before taking your card out.

TildalWave

@ScottPack The only one I have that doesn't is from an American bank and even that's a prepaid card

And frankly, when I use it for purchases, people at counters have problems realizing it's not chip and pin and sometimes I have to tell them their readers have a swipe slot also

Scott Pack

@Adnan Ah. The mechanics of how card are handled vary from machine to machine, which will vary from manufacturer to manufacturer.

Adnan

@ScottPack Not in the EU. Everything is standardized under the EMV

Scott Pack

@Adnan I've only seen 3 types when it comes to card handling. 1) Swipe the card such that it never leaves your hand. 2) Insert the card which is read and immediately ejected before requested PIN entry. 3) Insert the card, which is held until the transaction is complete.

Adnan

@ScottPack Oh, it seems that there are plans to apply EMV in the States en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMV#United_States

Scott Pack

20:39

To be fair, #3 seems to be relatively ancient at this point. I mostly see #2s, and the occasional 1.

Adnan

But it's really interesting. Before yesterday, I've always thought that it is the same ATM system in all the world, I would have never imagined an ATM with a magnetic-stripe card.

I guess that explains why skimming is so popular there.

Scott Pack

Probably.

I'm not sure what it would take to skim a chip, but I imagine it would be slightly more difficult than skimming a magstripe.

Adnan

@ScottPack Much more difficult. So far it's only possible with brute-force to extract the data from the card, or by some rare preplay attacks.

TildalWave

21:06

What's the question? Looks like polling to me, and I believe that's what @Adnan wanted to point out, too. Polar is probably just a Freudian slip because he saw all those encryption schemes listed and was thinking of bear territories, one of them being the North Pole LOL — TildalWave 29 secs ago

TildalWave

21:18

@Adnan - Polar question? You miss The Bear that much? :P

Adnan

@TildalWave A bit, yes.

But what I meant by "polar question" is what polar question means. He's asking if one of us has experience with some law. That question can be answered with yes or no.

TildalWave

@Adnan It's a poll, or polling question I believe... tho now that you mention it so, I'm getting slightly confused too if it's indeed so LOL

Adnan

@TildalWave It's not a poll. He's not asking us which crypto scheme is better. He's asking which of these schemes wouldn't break the United States' export law or something like that.

Of course, he failed to even form the question in that way.

Ladadadada

@ScottPack I remember the guys at Light Blue Touchpaper doing some amazing things with chip-and-pin cards. Pre-play was one of them but there was a relay attack too where they used your credentials and a fake card to double-spend.

It seems that the systems fail open too, so a cloned chip is useful if the merchant is offline. lightbluetouchpaper.org/2006/06/30/chip-and-pin-again/…

TildalWave

21:42

@Adnan Oh I get it now. Sorry for the confusion ;)

Gilles

1

Q: Understanding getlogin spoofing

My question is in three (or so) related parts: 1) My understanding is that getlogin() will effectively return the auid associated with the process and so isn't actually changable by the user. Is that understanding true? 2) I found this old exploit regarding getlogin() used in pam_wheel. I'm fam...

linux security su privileges

what do you think: SO or sec.se?

Rory Alsop

21:57

Hmmm. It's a bit of both isn't it. I think part two is sec.se but the others are more SO.

D3C4FF

@RoryAlsop Heh.

TildalWave

22:34

@RoryAlsop Have you watched Star Trek: Into Darkness already? I'm making contingency plans for tomorrow if the weather doesn't hold ;)

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