The DMZ

AviD

00:00

hahaha

not this time... decent chance next I would consider it.

D3C4FF

@AviD But you could push it THAT LITTLE BIT FURTHER

:D

AviD

hell, I gave thought to it this time, too, but it wasnt in the budget. Not quite the price/perf point I was looking for.

@D3C4FF sure, but then I would need to get a premium mobo to justify it, and upgrade the RAM to dominators, probably should make the PSU a platinum instead of a gold, and dont forget the screen card. Cards.

all told it can get quite expensive...

I built this rig with upgradability in mind, so I can swap parts as I see fit over time.

D3C4FF

@AviD Nah not really, H80's are great beginner WC sets cause they fit on practically any board, you can keep all the components you have, Gold vs Plat PSU's only refer to efficiency. If your not using SLI, you can probably get away with using 750W PSU (i'm going to assume you're probably using higher than that anyway)

oh, and they're like around $100 bucks :P

And the fans are less noisy

AviD

@D3C4FF yeah, but it was more about the premiumness of the box.

D3C4FF

:P

AviD

00:05

@D3C4FF now THAT was a big draw for me. Still, I managed to pass on that for now.

D3C4FF

You ever seen PC's submerged in liquid (usually oil of some sort)?

AviD

@D3C4FF actually, no. lower. my power draw is much less than that.

@D3C4FF seen som HCOC vids :)

not oil, LN.

D3C4FF

@AviD Lucky, i'm running a 1200W PSU.

dat power draw! $$$$ :(

AviD

well, with that much draw, you NEED the liquid cooler. Dat be hella heat :-)

D3C4FF

4x GPUs under water bebbeh :D

AviD

00:09

whoa

you aware of the latency hit from multiple gpu's yes?

techreport.com/review/21516/…

D3C4FF

Not to fussed with FPS's. All about the hashcating :D

AviD

ahhh, of course. :-)

the REAL use for gpus...

D3C4FF

Yeah, if i'm rocking just 1 GPU that's more than fine for games

I have noticed though that OC'd GPU's can be 'stable' for gaming, but not for cracking...

Which i find wierd.

AviD

really?

interseting.

now, how do I sort this x43? What do you think I should try?

I dont want to just skip over it, without knowing why, it feels secretly unstable.

should I give it a bit extra volts?

btw, its better to give it a bit overvolt than undervolt, right?

TildalWave

00:38

@AviD yar I know about the bclk and multiplier, but my point was that it might be screwing with some other timings, like on my mobo. (i mean for BIOS tables)

D3C4FF

@AviD There shouldn't be to much of an issue either way, undervolting will cause instability when its to low, overvolting should fix stability at the expsense of heat

@TildalWave Modern mbds have so many fucking frequency controllers its not even funny anymore. You basically need an EE degree to understand them all properly

AviD

well, I'm trying again on x43, this time with the vcore manually forced at 1.300v. Lets see what happens.

TildalWave

@D3C4FF Yup that sums it up

D3C4FF

If you boot, flick us a CPU-z shot

AviD

gorrammit, the K started off so simple. Just set how much perf you want, and you'll get it. Then I had to go muck things up and try to optimize everything.

@D3C4FF and I really dont... I'm trying, but I'm really just guessing my way past most of this.

D3C4FF

00:41

@AviD yeah, that happens xD

AviD

@D3C4FF oh yeah, it boots fine, it bluescreened only after about 20-30 minutes of stress.

screenshot too complicated, its other computer...

D3C4FF

phone cam? :P

AviD

but tell me what specifically.

eh. too late for that crap. wanna go sleep.

just waiting to see if it crashes at the 30 min mark...

TildalWave

@AviD did you check your PSU voltages that it's stable enough? Upping vcore might make it more stable tho if it's fluctuating much over 2-3%

AviD

didnt check the psu. but I"m keeping an eye on the vcore fluctuations...

so far its between 1.248 and 1.296

TildalWave

00:44

I changed PSU because of that... some mighty fine but old Zalman for some XFX that's based on solid and tested design

D3C4FF

I still reckon whip out the multimeter :P

AviD

I went with the seasonic x. 80 plus gold, should be good enough :)

@D3C4FF I reckon you're right. umm, errrhh, uhh.... Maybe tomorrow I go out and buy one :$

TildalWave

oh that's exactly what my XFX is designed on... yarp that should be fine then

D3C4FF

@AviD OH FOR SHAME

AviD

@D3C4FF hey! I wasnt planning on going hardcore! still not... just want to make it stable with high performance...

D3C4FF

00:49

I'm pretty sure i've had a multimeter in my toolbox since before i had a toolbox :P

Fucking SQL injection is always to fun to not exploit. And then i forget to eat -_-

@AviD I'll be back shortly.

AviD

@D3C4FF I used to have one, long ago... havent had the need for one in years

thanks

D3C4FF

01:22

Ah food

Xander

Lovely. I can no longer connect to my firewall. And I can't find a USB to serial adapter, which I need to see if I can connect to console or if it's really dead. Sigh. I guess I know what's first on my to-do list for tomorrow morning.

TildalWave

02:22

@Xander Oh bummer. Happened to me before last Xmas when its PSU died. Replacement would cost me more than it later cost to replace the whole unit :(

TildalWave

02:52

Could we join (aliases) intrusion and detection with already existing ips and ids respectively?

D3C4FF

03:52

What rep do you need to be able to create new tags?

TildalWave

04:11

@D3C4FF Not sure but I think you can create new tags with new questions, so no rep at all? I went through a few tags that didn't have descriptions yet just now, I think I burnt out some mod with accepts :))))

The most ridiculous one I've ever written is tag description for book

If someone will need explanation on that tag, then God help us all :))

Stack Exchange

'It seems like it's still alive, Professor.' 'Yeah, a big one like this can keep running around for a few billion years after you remove the head."

TildalWave

Funny, I had no idea we get some rep for editing wiki stuff also. Probably another one of those that you get some rep for annoying mods to accept your edits LOL

D3C4FF

05:00

IS BACK.

I had some crazy freeze issue where there was lag of approx 20 seconds for every key press... Then the mouse and keyboard stopped working.

Now we're back

@TildalWave Alright cool, cause i've noticed a few tags that are missing that i have to write questions for when i get time

Also. Does anyone here have any skills/knowledge around document security (paper/plastic/etc)?

TildalWave

@D3C4FF I went by popularity (number of questions tagged with them) to avoid editing those that might not be accepted later on anyway... some new ones are rather pointless for this site, and some would be linked (alias) to their more meaningful versions

@D3C4FF what do you mean?

@D3C4FF so in a nutshell .. you had to replace batteries? :)

D3C4FF

@TildalWave Well the topic of document security (think passports, IDs, birth certs, etc) is fascinating to me. Its a field i've thought about doing professionally except that resources are usually A) 'underground' and B) not commonly taught anywhere :P

@TildalWave Doesn't usually need batteries on my desktop pc ._.

TildalWave

@D3C4FF then remove the hardware keylogger its buffer is probably full already :))

D3C4FF

The one i use automatically overwrites old data

and its embedded in my keyboard for stealthyness

TildalWave

@D3C4FF so you're interested in embossing and stuff like that? your best bet would probably be talking wiht someone from your treasury department

D3C4FF

05:10

Embossing? As in the raised bumps? nah, to simple. I'm interested in the 'next gen' features like super-high-res multi spec holograms, thermally reactive inks, 'DNA inks' etc etc

TildalWave

05:32

@D3C4FF embossing is actually pretty high tech nowadays, think of laser embossing inner layers and such

holograms... that's a type of embossing really, no? i mean, we're talking about how light reflects/refracts at different angles, i.e. by the angle of the embossing on a reflective surface... what's DNA inks?

hmmm.... dyed saliva?

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15383691

D3C4FF

haha

i was just about to link to that

Yes, more or less. In essence, theres some bio-matter embedded to make sure that priceless artworks are authentic etc

i'll be back in a bit, meeting time -__-

TildalWave

interesting, but was used before and in a more secure way too... I mean, what's to say that the person identified is still alive? Now for where it was used before... remember Alien 4?

Identified by bad breath :))

TildalWave

06:05

0

Q: How is "hacking" even possible if I "defend" properly?

On Linux-based server, I follow basic practices as below: Make admin account password long and complicated enough (i.e. theoretically speaking, password cannot be cracked within reasonable time). Monitor every incoming network traffic to the administrative files. To extend the layer of protecti...

webserver

rep train alert!

Rory Alsop

06:32

Whooooo whoooo

AviD

06:46

@RoryAlsop I didnt know you were a woo girl?

@TildalWave meh

TildalWave

:8944651, @RoryAlsop, @RoryMcCune good morning! @AviD? Not your cup of tea? Or you think I called it too soon?

AviD

@TildalWave I think the question is meh. But yeah, that is usually a good indicator of rep train.

Though I doubt it will really take off, right before the weekend...

Rory McCune

@TildalWave morning :)

AviD

@D3C4FF 300

TildalWave

@AviD with the whole Friday to go... I gather many have more time on Fridays to read forums before they punch it out early

AviD

06:50

hey @RoryAlsop, how's the new job going? we havent coincided here much since you started...

@TildalWave Please no. There are actually intrusions, and even detections, without using a heavy IDS/IPS commercial vendor product.

TildalWave

@AviD oh sure, no problemo :) pls delete my suggestion then

Rory McCune

in case anyone's looking for a loud way to start their Friday

►

AviD

@RoryMcCune always

Rory McCune

try that then :) nice little bit of NoMeansNo

AviD

nice. Buncha old guys? Must be @RoryAlsop's real band :D

or they were his first fans :D

Rory McCune

06:56

lol think those guys have been playing even longer than @RoryAlsop , formed in 1979.. I'm going to see them in Glasgow next month so have been listening to more of their stuff in preparation..

AviD

@TildalWave did you suggest it? I cant see it.

cool

TildalWave

@AviD no no, I mean that post in DMZ

AviD

ahh, naw, I'm sure @Rory and @Jefff will figure that out.

and there really is still not quite enough mass to push the synonyms through without a mod.

hey btw @RoryMcCune, have you heard a rumor that MS is killing WP8? (/cc @Iszi)

Rory McCune

@AviD no Really?

AviD

I doubt its true, and cant find anything like that, but my neighbor (who is far from a trusted source of information) claims it was on HN a couple days ago.

Rory McCune

06:59

not seen it but guess it's possible. Shame if they did though I think it's a pretty good phone OS

If I had to bet on next drop out from that market it would be RIM

they don't have the deep pockets of Microsoft and have to be an acquisition target for their patents...

AviD

I highly doubt it. they havent given it enough time, and they might not have the %ages of market share yet, but they are the fastest growing.

and anyone that has one loves it.

TildalWave

"On the other hand the OS support date is reset with any never version of the OS, so a Windows Phone 8.5 or 9 update in November 2013 would bring along its own 18 month of security updates. Microsoft has already promised all current Windows Phone 8 handsets will receive the next major version of the operating system."

AviD

@RoryMcCune you mean last ;-)

@TildalWave cool, clear rebuttal. Thanks!

Lucas Kauffman

morning gents ^^

TildalWave

Morning @Lucas

Rory McCune

07:06

Morning @LucasKauffman

AviD

Doctor Doctor, Doctor Doctor

►

still funny

hey, anybody know how to rotate cells in Excel? I mean turning rows into columns, and columns into rows.

TildalWave

Hehe that's the appendix operation IIRC... starting of course with the facial shave :))

Lucas Kauffman

@AviD office.microsoft.com/en-us/excel-help/…

TildalWave

@AviD transpose option on copy?

AviD

oo! found it!

@TildalWave yeah, just saw that, thanks!

@LucasKauffman thanks

@TildalWave of course! you should always be cleanly shaven before having your guts sliced by fake spies pretending to be fake doctors.

Rory McCune

07:21

@TildalWave well the missus will be pleased to hear that :)

she's a fan of WP8

Lucas Kauffman

@RoryMcCune I was wondering, what's the memory footprint of W8? Because we are looking in making new A&P images for windows

Rory McCune

@LucasKauffman good Q. Let me fire up a VM a sec and I'll tell you :)

ok so w8 with office and not much else installed shows 512MB ish of memory used (although some of that will be caching)

in general my experience of W8 is that it's as fast or faster than W7

oh that 512 includes defender as well (which is the largest memory footprint on the box)

one thing to watch if you're doing A&P images is that Nessus doesn't run on W8 yet

Rory Alsop

07:38

Had to jump on the train

Rory McCune

@RoryAlsop ooh an early morning train, people might make it in before a bear comes along :)

Rory Alsop

@avid - is good. I already knew a fair bit about the environment and people here as I have probably 7 years consulting in here, but still scurrying around figuring out contacts, areas of responsibility etc.

Definitely a place to make positive change overall, but nibbling away is more likely than step change. It is a large company.

Rory McCune

@RoryAlsop trying to find the right people in there was the hardest part of working there I found, it's just huuuuge

weirdly one of the best ways I found of finding who else in a company is doing something is speak to tools vendors and they say "oh yeah we're talking to so-and-so about that"

Rory Alsop

Yep. And to provide cake. Cake is an enabler :-)

Am working with Scott Barnett a bit this week - takes me back

Rory McCune

heh I think you run into everyone again after a while in scottish security..

D3C4FF

07:49

@TildalWave I lol'd

But thats biometrics

which is more 'instantaneous'

when you actually want to validate the DNA stuff it takes time.

But i dunno, i spend a lot of spare time trying to figure out creative ways to forge things from common household/art supply stores xD

Fun fact. Certain era birth certificates in australia can be wrapped in glad wrap(cling wrap(that annoying plastic shit)) placed in a freezer for a few hours and then 'gently' hit, at which point the ink on the page literally drops off!

Lucas Kauffman

@RoryMcCune thanks! looks promising

TildalWave

08:06

@RoryMcCune missuses are always a priority :)

@D3C4FF I'm actually really starting to like that DNA ink idea... might be interesting to work in such area

D3C4FF

@TildalWave Document security. Super cool stuff for something that usually goes totally unnoticed :D

TildalWave

it also reminded me of the works on the cellphone suitable size of the scent sensor... so we should soon see B.O. enabled lockscreens :)

AviD

@RoryMcCune no way, that's it? really? awesome.

What about installed disk space? Wanna figure out how big to make the VM...

or rather the VHD

D3C4FF

@TildalWave Despite the insane amount of exercise I do, i produce very little BO. Either that, or everyone around me is super polite since i never wear deoderant :P

AviD

@RoryAlsop very cool. So its a new place but not completely new. Kind of like hooking up with an old girlfriend.

are you adapting to not being an external consultant anymore? ;-)

you make a mess, YOU have to clean it up!

TildalWave

08:12

@D3C4FF oh we all have it, don't worry... just our nose isn't that reliable. I actually think it would be a really good thing. I've worked with blind dogs for example, and they never failed to identify anyone (that they knew)

D3C4FF

@TildalWave Haha, police dogs mis-identified a mate of mine and took a chunk out of his arm...

He sued them and won $400K

AviD

@RoryMcCune same in Israel... very rare for me to bump into a company where I dont know someone, worked with someone, taught someone...

and if I don't, then for sure we know some of the same people.

TildalWave

@D3C4FF well they get confused I guess... I mean the company they keep with, who would blame them? :))

AviD

All companies have an AviD Number of 1 or 2 at the most :-)

D3C4FF

@TildalWave Haha. I think it had more to do with the fact that he decided to hang out underneath a parked car...

AviD

08:15

@D3C4FF whoa, that sounds cool.

TildalWave

@D3C4FF clingfoil?

D3C4FF

@AviD If i could get a penetration tester job where i was tasked with trying to duplicate high-security documents i'd be very happy

@TildalWave Whatever you want to call it -_-

AviD

@D3C4FF that would mostly be guvmint, passports and defence Id's are probably the most relevant.

TildalWave

Plastic wrap

Plastic wrap, cling film (UK), cling wrap or food wrap, is a thin plastic film typically used for sealing food items in containers to keep them fresh over a longer period of time. Plastic wrap, typically sold on rolls in boxes with a cutting edge, clings to many smooth surfaces and can thus remain tight over the opening of a container without adhesive or other devices. Common plastic wrap is roughly 0.5 mils, or 12.5 µm, thick. In Australia and New Zealand the genericized trademark glad wrap is commonly used, while Saran wrap has become genericized in North America. Material...

This no?

D3C4FF

Yes that stuff

@AviD Yeah, i've got sec clearance, but i dunno, as far as their concerned, im still just another random guy with no qualifications or experience in that are

area*

Antony Vennard

08:20

@D3C4FF Dunno if you know, but you can edit your previous messages for a short time. Press up arrow in the edit box and it'll skip up to your previous message.

3

Rory McCune

@AviD well the VM I'm looking at has been running a while, and the windows directory is 18.2GB. That said I've not tried keeping that down so there's probably some cache files and the like I could get rid of. Overall the VHD is 30GB and with office installed there's currently about 9 free..

TildalWave

D3C4FF

@TildalWave Well put ^_^

Rory McCune

@AviD yeah it's pretty lightweight. For me once you've got Start8 installed it's just a nicer version of W7

D3C4FF

testies

3

@RoryMcCune True that!

AviD

08:21

@RoryMcCune thats it? fantastic. for some reason I was sure it would be at least double that. Thanks!

@TildalWave oh yeah, cash too.

D3C4FF

I like how all I have to write is 'Testies' and i get two stars in under a minute

TildalWave

@D3C4FF that's the DMZ currency ;)

Rory McCune

@TildalWave which is quite a bit more stable than bitcoins :)

TildalWave

@RoryMcCune (chuckle)

D3C4FF

@TildalWave @RoryMcCune A psych ward is more stable than bitcoin

Rory McCune

08:25

@D3C4FF true true

AviD

@D3C4FF so I still havent figured out that x43 anomaly on auto Vcore, but I have it stable with Vcore=1.250v

D3C4FF

@AviD That's a pretty good voltage i think!

Whats your temps?

AviD

@D3C4FF pretty low - peaks at 74C at stress

oh yeah, and case fans dialed all the way down.

would still like to make them go even slower, but whatevs

D3C4FF

@AviD assuming your using pot-switches as a dial or something, you can add another one in series

Also.

Awesome temps

Whats your Cpu Freq @ now?

Lucas Kauffman

@AviD you could upgrade your standard fans with Noctua, those are really silent but not cheap unfortunately

AviD

08:28

@D3C4FF no, I have the fans plugged into the case, it has a built in dial. not very granular, but good enough I guess.

D3C4FF

Get a fan controller, they're the shit :D

Also. The more dials you have, the more badass you look

AviD

@LucasKauffman the built in fans are pretty quiet, truthfully. Two x 200mm, but I replaced the rear 120mm with a Scythe 140mm.

D3C4FF

@LucasKauffman The do make some awesome coolers, but fuck they're big

AviD

@D3C4FF haha, I was strongly considering skipping the dial and letting the MB control it for me. I'm lazy that way.

TildalWave

@RoryAlsop could you please add to your answer also something along the lines of plan for security but don't neglect to plan for when it fails too? I wanna give it a +1 and am missing some advice like this on that question. Most just fail to plan for what to do on breaches and then they panic and do even more damage than the breach did.

AviD

08:29

@D3C4FF x43, so just over 4.3ghz. I'm pushing it up to x44 right now, wanna see that heat cliff @TildalWave was talking about.

Lucas Kauffman

has anyone tried out peltier cooling? I might get it next time I build a machine to work on so that it's completely fanless

D3C4FF

@LucasKauffman careful with it

You'll run into condensation issues

if you put the cold plate on the CPU side

AviD

@LucasKauffman ymean, like fur coats? wouldnt that do the opposite?

D3C4FF

@AviD xD ololol

Lucas Kauffman

@AviD no a thermoelectric device that cools by using black magic

D3C4FF

08:31

'TEC coolers'

work by using physics

(also known as black magic)

AviD

@D3C4FF really dont care how badass it looks, besides that fact that I never care about other people's opinions, it's in my "LAIR" so almost nobody ever sees it.

except on the rare occassion I shlep it up for a gaming session....

TildalWave

@AviD well hopefully you'll be seeing that at as high frequency as possible, each chip being different and all... mine is at 4.3 for what noise I can live with day by day (with the cooler I have)... and I did go till 4.8 IIRC and it was still stable... just too loud

D3C4FF

@AviD Fair point. Its funny. Cause i put a lot of effort into making the computer look nice, but my desk? Fuck that shit. Crap everywhere!

AviD

@TildalWave right, so I'm actually going to keep going, and set up 2 uefi profiles, one for max stable, and one for optimal.

D3C4FF

@LucasKauffman If you end up trying it out, I wana see pix :P

AviD

08:33

It's the optimal thats tricky, hard to make those tradeoffs when every fiber is screaming MOAR PERF

TildalWave

@AviD that sounds good to me

AviD

I still need to put more insulation on the case, which would have some effect on heat AND noise. Worse, I have it turned wrong way around for where I'm sitting... :-(

D3C4FF

FUCK. I hate it when i think of something awesome, then forget it seconds later because something has distracted me!!

TildalWave

@AviD look for games and other casual stuff they're all fast enough as it is, but with gaming you wouldn't even notice noise... problem is that when you want the most juice you're running something in the background for a long time and then wanna do something else on it, maybe something relaxing like playing cool music or watch a movie... nothing too stressful on the CPU but the noise gets annoying

AviD

yeah. Almost makes me miss those ol' XT boxes, with the little "TURBO" button on the front.

hmm, either this is weird or I just dont understand something.

I have the vcore set in uefi to 1.250v. I have a reading now (at stress) that vcore is currently at 1.284v. I thought the setting was the max voltage, but it could only be equal or less?

TildalWave

08:39

@AviD Asus ROG series have those... but it's useless nowadays IMO

D3C4FF

@AviD Actually, you'll find there are boards with 'instant stable oc' buttons

@AviD Nope, that's why you need a multimeter probing the board

:P

AviD

@D3C4FF yeah, seen those. but that's not while the computer is on.

D3C4FF

@AviD "Intel TurboBoost" :P

Does it for you

AviD

heh. wait, nope what, I understood it wrong?

D3C4FF

@AviD What what?

TildalWave

08:41

It's an instant switch IIRC

AviD

1 min ago, by D3C4FF

@AviD Nope, that's why you need a multimeter probing the board

what did you mean "nope"

D3C4FF

@AviD Oh right. No. I'm saying that your getting readings from software. Which isn't what the actual readings are

Hence the need for a multimeter

AviD

ohhh. So you say I shouldnt trust those readings, and shouldnt worry about it "too much"?

D3C4FF

I'm saying get a multimeter :p

-if your concerned about the voltages (which at such low voltages i would not be)

AviD

until then... not running out now!

@D3C4FF only concern is giving it enough juice, while keeping it cool.

D3C4FF

08:44

@AviD Should be fine then

AviD

also. My understanding of the vcore setting was correct?

Lucas Kauffman

I still need to get my multimeter in

3

that's the only thing that's keeping me away from finishing my quadcopter

D3C4FF

@AviD That what you set should always be <= that voltage?

AviD

there you go, we all know you only said that to grab yourself a seemingly out of context star.

Lucas Kauffman

@AviD ...

D3C4FF

08:45

xD

AviD

@D3C4FF no, the other way around.

what I set is the max?

Lucas Kauffman

dat moment when you have 40 line stacktrace and the only clue is that you gave an argument too much in a constructor...somewhere

D3C4FF

@AviD To be honest, i'm not sure. Its never been something i've had to check.

I've always just set it and read whats on the MM probe

but never paid attention to WHAT the differences was

AviD

heh. and, was the MM usually under or over the setting?

D3C4FF

usually under

AviD

08:46

ever over?

D3C4FF

But i think under full load it would be possible for occasional spikes.

Can't say for sure. If it ever was, it wasn't by much

AviD

okay then, mister overcocker, explain me something else.

Please.

TildalWave

@AviD look at it from the motherboard perspective and it'll make sense... it can't generate more juice, but it can request a certain amount and control it's upper voltage, maybe iron out short dips with capacitors, but that's pretty much it... if it asked for more juice in the first place, then you get more heating problems to no apparent avail

AviD

still havent been able to understand what this PLL is. also VID.

D3C4FF

@AviD PLL is set to what on your system?

AviD

08:50

and dont send me to WP to read about phase locked loop! I just dont understand how it plays with the other parts.

@D3C4FF Auto, 1.800 according to uefi.

TildalWave

PLL is phase lock something.... it's a clock related thingie that is probably pretty hard to explain... where's The Bear when you need one?

D3C4FF

@AviD Okay, for the clocks your trying to get, its not really necessary to play with

AviD

@TildalWave yeah, thats pretty much what I got.

@D3C4FF I want to try to lower it, to reduce heat. Ostensibly, this is a good idea if you're at moderate clocks.

but I dont know what it does.

D3C4FF

Basically, All clock circuits have a certain amount of jitter(variance whathaveyou). Increasing the clock speed results in the jitter increasing also. By raising the PLL voltage the noise margin is increased effectively lowering the perceived jitter.

@AviD @TildalWave The VID is the "stock" vCore for each chip, and it varies from chip to chip based on Intel's testing procedures. The VID will tell the motherboard: "This is the voltage I require at stock speeds when the VCore setting is on 'Auto' for proper operation." Nothing more. It is said that a lower VID value will yield better overclocks, but nothing's been conclusively proven.

TildalWave

@D3C4FF so it's adjusting the sine wave frequency?

AviD

08:54

@D3C4FF Ah. noise margin, as in, raising the acceptable range of jitter, i.e. not really lowering the jitter, just lowering the variance of jitter outside of the range?

@D3C4FF ah, so once I change anything - clocks, vcore, etc - I can just ignore the vid?

what about heat?

D3C4FF

@TildalWave Yep :)

TildalWave

@D3C4FF OK now I get it

D3C4FF

@AviD Correct

@AviD I think so. Not something i've ever had to touch

TildalWave

it's the smooth operator :)

AviD

wow, excellent. Thanks! I have read sooo many articles about it, havent gotten anywhere. I would like to ask this as a question somehwere just so you could post your answer.

D3C4FF

08:57

Yay! Learning is fun for everyone!

2

@AviD I reckon an oc.se.com site would be awesome ;)

TildalWave

►

If anyone wondered how PLL sounds like

D3C4FF

Would also stop most of the penis waving that OC forums generally tend to introduce.

@TildalWave Hahaha!

AviD

@D3C4FF theres quite a few oc q's on su, but doesnt seem to really be in depth. but yeah! propose it on area51, I'd follow that!

TildalWave

@AviD can you commit?

D3C4FF

ALRIGHT. Outspoken badge for all my fucking around in here :D

@AviD Not a bad idea!

AviD

08:59

@TildalWave been married for 15 years. Don't think I have a problem with that.

3

My mistress and 2 girlfriends would agree ;-)

TildalWave

@AviD you OC them as well?

D3C4FF

@TildalWave I can hack mine

;)

And penetrate them repeatedly

AviD

@TildalWave no, I underclock them. everything takes a loooong time :P

TildalWave

@D3C4FF every second counts, huh? :P

AviD

hmm, would that be in the Technology category, or the Recreation category?

1

Overclocking

Proposed Q&A site for all Overclockers, for Hard Core overclocking or moderate overclocking, anyone who wants to dig in and optimize their computers.

Currently in definition.

I gotta run, will flesh it out later...

thanks for the help!

D3C4FF

09:04

@AviD no worries! Cheers!

@TildalWave Yeah! If i gotta get it in and out at speeds of 5GHz cooling becomes a SERIOUS ISSUE

TildalWave

@D3C4FF double-entendre+libations my son! ;)

D3C4FF

Ahahaha!

It appears i have pretty much half of the stars in the right hand side there xD

TildalWave

09:26

@D3C4FF well I have a sticky star :P quality over quantity!

Morning @Adnan ;)

Adnan

@TildalWave Morning!

Like I even know what morning is.

Sun sets at 10, raises at 4.

TildalWave

@Adnan it's that part of the day that you want more of... that's why it's moarning

by the time everyone wishes you a good one, it's gone

Adnan

@TildalWave This is actually deep.

D3C4FF

@TildalWave Whats a sticky star?

Adnan

@D3C4FF A star by a mod.

D3C4FF

09:30

Ooooooh!

Modtastic!

2

TildalWave

reached questions cap on OC

D3C4FF

Nice!

Im just gonna head home, i'll be back laterz

Rory McCune

ya know sometimes you have to wonder how Cisco stay in business. I've just bought a new 3 port router/firewall does decent VPN support and all three ports are gigabit capable. under £100

Compare to the hideously over complex ASA 5505 we have at the moment

that was more expensive and slower...

Rory Alsop

09:45

@rorym - wow. Maybe I should replace my ancient linksys router with something a tad more up to date. Does that Cisco have any ports that can cope with 10Mb? I always have one of my car stereos in the computer room and they can't talk any faster than that...

TildalWave

@RoryMcCune they buy everyone's opinion, that's how they stay in business

I'm still waiting for that fat check to change my opinion about Cisco

Rory McCune

@RoryAlsop hmm the ASA I think has 10/100 ports could be wrong. I'd expect them to auto sense down that far...

new one I got is one of these ubnt.com/edgemax

now that the iPad has OpenVPN support I can use this. Main reason to have the Cisco was that they had iPad VPN support, but that was a bust anyhow as they want more money for it

crappy business model "sure you can have the firewall with VPN" unless you want to use a mobile device

in which case pay us more..

Antony Vennard

@RoryMcCune Most ports should switch between 10/100/1000 as needed. If not, I have a netgear gs105 switch that does. Both lights=gbit, left light=100M, right light = 10M :)

And they're pretty cheap to pick up these days. About £20 on Amazon.

I'm thinking of building my own router on an Atom box, with pfsense.

Rory McCune

@AntonyVennard yeah I was considering that, but I saw that the ubiquiti will take any debian package to be installed, and thought it might be a good plan (also some of those small atom boxes are awful pricey for what they are...)

Antony Vennard

@RoryMcCune That is true, they're much more costly than commodity routers, but I like the idea of being in control (real control) of my router.

Plus, I can make it do IPSec or OpenVPN for remote access!

Rory Alsop

09:57

Will have a look at both of those. My requirements are actually pretty simple on that network anyway. So either of them will work

Rory McCune

@AntonyVennard yeah it's always a balance between control and amount of time... I'll be interested to see what the ubiquiti is like. seems to support the features I need (firewall, VPN, fast) plus has some nice graphs and things for monitoring..

<other rory may want to look away now> one reason for the new firewall is that I'm thinking about getting BT's FTTP on demand service when it comes out in may. it has 330MBps down so I'd need to upgrade then anyway as the ASA is 100Mbit...

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