The DMZ

Terry Chia

01:06

@tylerl Python with speed-critical code written with C extensions is pretty damn fast though.

tylerl

@TerryChia Yes, the C acceleration helps. And if it wasn't for the GIL, I'd have no reservations

Terry Chia

@tylerl Does cython suffer from the same problem? I heard good things about it although I have not tried it out personally yet.

My biggest complaint with python is the state of the packaging infrastructure really.

tylerl

@TerryChia cython still uses python (the standard python interpreter) but allows you to write extensions in C. It's the counterpart to ctypes

See examples

used to be pyrex, hence the "pyx" names

Python can "natively" be extended in C using the built-in API (which is what they use to implement most of the native standard lib) but cython makes it simpler

Terry Chia

@tylerl But cython is compiled right? Won't that offer a significant boost over interpreted python just by itself?

--not too sure about this-- i have not personally faced the need for speed critical python code yet.

tylerl

@TerryChia cython takes python-like code and translates it into C

Terry Chia

01:14

@tylerl I see.

Terry Chia

02:58

@RoryAlsop Hey Rory, I submitted a blog post for review about the recent SQRL question that has already been posted on my own personal blog. Mind taking a look at it?

It can either be a QOTW or a standalone blog post if you like. :)

Terry Chia

03:19

7

Q: I accidently zipped my whole server

Alright if anyone wants to play god and work miracles i'm down. So, i was given the task of making a script that found files that are older than 6 months, zipped them and then deleted them. On my way in making tihs script i ran this : find / -type f -mtime -400 ! -mtime -180 | xargs gzip blabl...

Hah!

Stack Exchange

04:03

Rory McCune

06:43

@AviD @Griffin ruby is great (IMO) for developer productivity in scripting and web apps. Good set of libraries, lots of stuff in the community. I wouldn't recommend it for somewhere that the speed of execution is paramount. Also I have my reservations on how well it works with really large teams. It seems that the language mutability features (gets called monkey patching in the community) are cool and useful but a recipe for disaster in large teams...

Terry Chia

@RoryMcCune That description can apply to python as well. It really comes down to which syntax you prefer imo.

Rory McCune

@TerryChia sure python/ruby is a toss-up really on whether you prefer monty python jokes or chunky bacon!

Terry Chia

Ruby is too "magical" for me. I prefer python's more explicit way of writing code.

@RoryMcCune Hmm, tough choice...

Rory McCune

@TerryChia well you can easily write explicit ruby code, it's just that a part of the community likes fancy stuff. Rails on the other hand has the fancy stuff baked in

which is great while you're on the happy path

tylerl

07:05

@RoryMcCune Yes, you can write explicit code, but the idiomatic way to do Ruby is to ride the magic. Idiomatic Python is explicit and pedantically consistent. Rubyists may prefer how little typing you have to do, but pythonists in turn prefer the absolute clarity that the idiom demands.

Lucas Kauffman

'sup guys

another python vs ruby discussion?

tylerl

Ruby is, first and foremost, an evolution of Perl

@LucasKauffman Someone's still trying to decide what lang to use for his webapp

Terry Chia

@LucasKauffman I know right, it's like we have this same one every 3 weeks.

Lucas Kauffman

Python python python python

what do we want?

Terry Chia

@LucasKauffman I just saw that forbes article you linked. nc and bash is considered hacking now?

Lucas Kauffman

07:08

Python

when do we want it?

now!

@TerryChia a bit like hacking with ramzy

►

Rory McCune

07:51

@tylerl but a much nicer evolution of perl

Terry Chia

08:10

@RoryMcCune Much much nicer. /cc @ScottPack

Rory Alsop

08:30

@Terry - will take a look shortly

Terry Chia

@RoryAlsop Cheers :)

Rory McCune

08:56

anyone else see this square.com/cash and just think massive fraud target...

Terry Chia

@RoryMcCune Give it a try! :P

Rory McCune

@TerryChia well an interesting research target to be sure, but there's no way in hell I'd put my main debit card anywhere near it :)

Terry Chia

@RoryMcCune Oh sure, I was actually suggesting you be the fraudster instead of the dummy. :)

AviD

imgur.com/e0LcT6J

Rory McCune

@TerryChia heh

AviD

09:01

Brilliant, and confirmed as true.

best part is, as one of the comments there noted - pay attention to what kind of ship/captain each is talking about....

Polynomial

09:35

@AviD That's awesome

Rory Alsop

@AviD - GoT still means nothing to me. Not seen more than about 5 seconds of it yet.

AviD

@RoryAlsop for shame.

ManishEarth

@RoryAlsop And you call yourself a DMZ regular. -_-

AviD

okay then maybe that version will get you more interested.

Terry Chia

@RoryAlsop You disgust me.

AviD

09:39

> Game of Bones

> Winter is Cumming

It's pr0n...

Rory Alsop

I missed episode 1, so wasn't much point

And I don't do online television

AviD

@RoryAlsop what, you were afraid you missed all the best killings?

Rory Alsop

or television at all, really

ManishEarth

@AviD I didn't get it

AviD

57 secs ago, by AviD

It's pr0n...

@ManishEarth the netflix guy was captain of a ship == boat. the customer assumed captain of ship == spaceship.

ManishEarth

09:41

oic

AviD

captain started with pirates, Lt. went to star trek.

Rory Alsop

Everyone just toldme that I needed the plot setup from episode 1 or else none of it would make sense. So I figured - fair enough.

Terry Chia

@RoryAlsop Read the books.

Then you can just skip over the parts in the TV show without violence or boobs.

AviD

s/books/imdb summary/

ManishEarth

@RoryAlsop My roommate is reading the books and then watching random good parts from the episodes. It seems to work.

AviD

09:43

@TerryChia there are parts like that?

Terry Chia

Which is basically the first 5 minutes of every episode.

ManishEarth

@AviD s/avid/blockhead/

Terry Chia

@AviD ^

Polynomial

10:04

gotta love going after spam campaigns on Twitter

seems now everyone forwards me the tweets so I can go after them :P

most recent one is a campaign that uses goo.gl to forward to a subdomain of a Russian financial services site, which has been popped and is now serving up spam / ads / scams

so now Twitter, Google, and the Russian company have been alerted. booyeah!

AviD

it reminds me of that kiddie game in arcades, where you have to bop the gophers on the head as they pop up? And the more you hit them, the faster they pop.

You can never win.

unless you decide to use that foam hammer to bop the kids on the head, instead.

Rory Alsop

10:20

@Terry - are the books good?

AviD

ermahgehhrd! dem berks are geeerrddd!!

Rory Alsop

ah - errrrrkeerrrrr therrrrrn

will get them bekindled later today

AviD

okay, I didnt actually read them, but I have been told by many that they are at least as good as the show - and if they were even half as good, they would be fantastic.

better than breaking bad! better than arrested development! Neither of which have I seen!

Rory Alsop

oh, hang on - these books all say they are by George RRRRRR Martin - isn't he a complete @@@@@@@ of a writer?

(that is all I have heard about him)

happy to click on 'buy box set' if you guys reckon it is worth it

£33 for Kindle or £35 for paperback for all 7 books...tempted by paper...

AviD

@RoryAlsop he is a complete @@@@ of a person.

dont take my word, as I said I never actually read the books, but the show is one of the best things on in a long time.

Polynomial

10:33

@AviD I can't win, but I can give spammers a headache, and that provides me with endless joy.

AviD

"I wont be able to keep my spam service live for very long, but I can give the whitehats a headache, and that provides me with endless joy."

Hmm.

Polynomial

not sure that's how it works

AviD

heh

some do....

Polynomial

I think it's more along the lines of "the longer my campaign works, the more $$$ I get."

certainly doesn't give me a headache :P

AviD

not all of them are in it for profit, some are just into chaos.

Polynomial

10:35

sure

AviD

Some men just want to see the world burned.

Polynomial

s/ed//

ManishEarth

@RoryAlsop he likes killing people

Polynomial

most of the chaos lot are writing RATs and other shitty malware instead ;]

AviD

I took artistic license.

oh lord. Hipsters hipsters hipsters!

Polynomial

10:52

@AviD FUCK. THAT.

major problem with hiring hipsters? they're trend followers, not setters.

as soon as the next thing comes out, they abandon the last thing. tech doesn't work that way.

Terry Chia

11:05

@RoryAlsop Very

It's a well written story imo.

AviD

11:43

@Polynomial exactly.

curious how it would work - "oh you should work in X. I used to like that."

Polynomial

12:02

yaaaaaaaaawn sexism in infosec flaring up on Twitter again

AviD

it died down?

Polynomial

for a long time, yeah

AviD

sexism, or complaints about sexism?

Polynomial

complaints

or rather one person complaining that women weren't specifically invited to submit to ruxcon

Terry Chia

@Polynomial What? That's just stupid.

AviD

12:03

were they excluded?

Polynomial

no

anyone could submit

and all talks were selected on merit

AviD

so they're looking for corrective prejudice.

Polynomial

and, as usual, I pointed out that affirmative action is equality for people who think that promotion is the same thing as equality.

AviD

boring.

its like that group called "White People Against Racism".

Polynomial

it's funny actually, because 44con had three female speakers this year and they were excellent, and none of that came about because of any positive bias towards women in marketing or talk selection

the reason they were excellent was because they were selected on merit.

AviD

12:08

same with OWASPIL.

I admit that I did try a bit to get specific women to submit, but then I did that with some men too.

Polynomial

there you go then

AviD

I was bothered at first, and would have been, if it was all male.

the women we selected were, as you say, on merit.

Polynomial

I'd say it's ok to ask some people specifically if you know they have good material, or have a talk you know would be good for the con

AviD

well, in one case thats not 100% true - but her gender was not the non-merit part.

Polynomial

fair enough

for example Travis Goodspeed was specifically asked to talk at 44con because he had done some really cool work on anti-forensics hard disks, and it was a cool selling point for the con

AviD

12:11

she was an unknown, and turned out to merit it after all. But we guessed on her.

Polynomial

giving someone a chance is part of merit too

AviD

I would say that if the entire conference IS only men, then there is something else wrong.

Polynomial

"this person seems to have some good stuff going on, but hasn't done any talks. let's invite them!"

that's fine

Scott Pack

@Polynomial I think I'm with you on this. Yes, I'm sure there are people who cause problems, but at this point it's hard to know where what problems might actually be.

AviD

@Polynomial yeah, but there were others that we didnt. in this case, the topic was interesting, but the fact that she was government (very unusual for OWASP) was a non-negligible factor too.

Polynomial

12:12

@ScottPack exactly. and it's made EVEN MORE difficult when there are people going around stirring the pot, and turning everything into an "us vs. them" battle.

@AviD oh absolutely, that's a definite plus point to go for

Scott Pack

@Polynomial Precisely.

AviD

@Polynomial it IS an us vs. them. but not men vs. women.

it's all of us vs. douchebags.

Polynomial

haha

Simon

NOT FUNNY

AviD

@Simon hahah, yes, @Simon, we are all against you.

Simon

12:14

I feel a bit grumpy this morning so I'll act like an old man who hates everyone.

AviD

@Simon like me....? :D

Scott Pack

@Polynomial I rather approved of Finix's approval of your statement regarding issues.

Simon

Nah, you're not that bad.

Xander

@Polynomial This is not a problem with InfoSec. This is a problem with life. And some people are determined to be unhappy about the perceived injustice of life, and target arbitrary subjects as the "cause" because they've mistaken correlation for causation. (And not sexism, specifically, but the impression of unfairness in general.)

3

AviD

anyway, my point is that if all proposed talks are male, there is probably something weird. If all selected talks are male, there is DEFINITELY something wrong, probably because of said douchebags.

Polynomial

12:15

@ScottPack I was somewhat surprised by it, but he's a surprisingly level headed guy sometimes.

Simon

It's so hard to go to bed at night, there's so much stuff to learn/see/do.

Polynomial

@Xander +1000 on that.

AviD

@Simon thats why I go to bed closer to morning.

Simon

Yep

Scott Pack

@Polynomial I've only ever seem him on zer twitters, and for all the spouting he may do it seems like he really is pretty level headed. at the core of it.

AviD

12:17

@Xander Agreed. That said there are quite a lot of sexist douchebags out there. Because there is a relatvely low ratio of women in IT, there is a perception that the sexist douchebags are the rule, not the exception.

Polynomial

@ScottPack I've met him in real life a fair few times. He's a little erratic sometimes but yeah at the core he's on pretty level ground. Just depends what mood you catch him in.

Scott Pack

@TerryChia Did they get rid of curlies? Then you're probably wrong.

Xander

For sexism specifically, so far this week I've seen complains about sexism in InfoSec, sexism at Ruby conferences, and sexism on at the board/executive level of tech in general.

Polynomial

@ScottPack He has issues, some of which he hasn't dealt with optimally, but then that's not really entirely his fault.

Scott Pack

@Polynomial So....he's British?

Polynomial

12:18

@ScottPack Scottish

Xander

@AviD Yup. Agreed.

Scott Pack

@Polynomial I accused him of that but he informed me that he was raised English, then moved to Scotland.

Polynomial

@ScottPack Scottish accent, Scottish attitude, Scottish name ;]

Scott Pack

@Polynomial He does have the accent? Asshole! That was the entire basis of my accusation!

Fucker.

AviD

Also, since IT and infosec in particular tend to party hard, and seem to be a bit childish, some poor behavior does tend to come forth often. This room case in point.

Simon

12:20

Whoa, pulling the big F.

Polynomial

@AviD Indeed.

Scott Pack

So, when you say Scottish attitude do you mean that he's a skinflint or that he wants all those people south of the Wall to go away?

Polynomial

@ScottPack Drink hard, quick tempered, no bullshit.

Scott Pack

@AviD If that is the prevailing culture then I would expect it to be a) non discriminatory, and b) shared in roughly equal parts across the range of people.

@Polynomial Ah, floppy upper lip?

AviD

@ScottPack I think this is mostly the case (with the exeption of said douchebags).

that said, not everyone is comfortable with that culture.

Scott Pack

12:23

@AviD Granted. Although I think we've discussed in the past that the general fix for all of society's social problems would be to fix the douchebag problem.

AviD

so, nuke the NJ beach?

Scott Pack

@AviD That's fine, I wouldn't expect everyone, in any professional/hobby group to be comfortable with whatever their culture is.

AviD

@ScottPack right, and the the douchebagguettes (?) see this oft-childish culture as sexist, instead of what it is.

Polynomial

@AviD douchebagguettes is an epic word.

Scott Pack

I'm pretty ok with that conjugation of douche.

AviD

12:26

thank you. We should try to get that into popular usage.

hashtag that crap.

Scott Pack

I find it interesting that we're using a bastardization of a feminine hygiene product to pejoratively describe the creators of sexist fervor.

Simon

wat

Scott Pack

Which of those words are you getting lost on? Your Speak and Spell might not get all of them.

Simon

No I got it, it's just too early.

Scott Pack

@Simon It's 8:30, and the sun is very nearly visible.

Simon

12:30

IT'S TOO EARLY, SIR.

AviD

this might help.

Scott Pack

I found that a couple of days ago. Fascinating.

AviD

is ratemypoo.com still around...?

Simon

wtf

And I thought I was fucked up.

GRUMPY GRUMP

Scott Pack

This is pretty impressive.

AviD

12:35

what program is that?

MS Flight Simulator 11?

Scott Pack

No, that's from an MD-83

AviD

looks cool. is it on Steam?

Simon

Alright, there's something you guys don't understand right now. I'm grumpy. WE TALK ABOUT WHAT I LIKE.

Scott Pack

>_<

Simon

Avid, it's an IRL pic.

God damn it.

AviD

12:36

I don't understand.

Scott Pack

That's from a 30 year old plane. A small plane at that.

Simon

Old people don't understand a thing.

Scott Pack

Simon

lulz

Scott Pack

FYI. That cockpit design is older than that album.

Simon

12:37

I could design something better on MS paint.

AviD

seriously, do you have a script running that always watches the transcript, and pops up a relevant image from your heavily indexed library?

Scott Pack

I'm telling you man. Google images.

Terry Chia

@AviD So @ScottPack is a bot? I suspected as much.

Simon

@TerryChia DON'T FUCKING START.

Man, it feels great to be an asshole, no wonders why people do it all the time.

Scott Pack

@AviD In my 20s I got cranky like that if I didn't have sex in a long time as well.

Terry Chia

12:39

@Simon Try harder.

AviD

@Simon that may be, but remember how its us vs. douchebags? Sometimes we might do this.

Simon

Did I just get kicked?

WHAT THE FUCK?

Scott Pack

I thought you grumped out.

Terry Chia

I think @kalina gave @AviD some ideas.

AviD

lulz. feels good to pick on assholes, I wonder why people dont do it more often.

kalina

12:41

?

I did?

Terry Chia

I want to be a mod so I can kick @Simon too. :(

kalina

oh, more mods abusing the kick function

AviD

@TerryChia nah, one kick per day.

Simon

@AviD wuttttttttttttttt

AviD

unless he really deserves it.

Terry Chia

12:41

@AviD It's @Simon...

AviD

@kalina nah, he deserved it. It was educational.

Scott Pack

What if he starts to like it?

AviD

besides, @Simon knows we love him.

Simon

@ScottPack Oooooooooh, kick me.

AviD

@ScottPack heh, there's a scary thought.

Simon

12:42

KICK ME ALL OVER MY BODY.

Alright, let's go back to Simon normal (not so normal but still).

Scott Pack

I'm a cultural relativist. So I always assume the word "normal" is fluid based on what is considered normal for said societal group.

Simon

Well yeah, I consider myself a normal little boi but people (especially here) seem to think that I'm weird.

Terry Chia

@Simon You are delusional.

AviD

well, you ARE canadian, so....

Scott Pack

You forgot to apologize before calling him Canadian.

Simon

12:47

You guys don't deserve me.

AviD

sorry!

Simon

Hey @ScottPack, I already bought my VIP tickets:

kalina

@Simon reminds me of GnomeSlice

Simon

Are you coming?!?

Don't mind the weird language.

@kalina Who the heck is he?

kalina

If you don't know, it's probably for the best

Simon

12:57

Good.

Scott Pack

@Simon That looks like a Final Fantasy game.

Simon

Ehhhhhh. If you say so.

Scott Pack

Simon

Alright, maybe you're right.

Scott Pack

Over saturated colors, background fade, people standing back to back, stylized font

Simon

13:04

And a weird language.

AviD

@Simon @ScottPack Final Fantasy was before his time.

Terry Chia

I dislike Final Fantasy.

Simon

Me too.

Terry Chia

I love playing Golden Sun though.

AviD

@Simon you hate everything older than you.

Like New Coke. Well, that is justified.

Polynomial

13:16

I just never really got into FF

plus I find a lot of those "random encounter" isometric RPG games a bit tedious

AviD

@Polynomial I used to enjoy them for a while, but the whole "family" thing and "no secret identity" was just a bit off. And the movies really ruined them.

Except for Jessica Alba.

Simon

@AviD You clearly missed the part where I said I hit on a MILF yesterday.

Scott Pack

@Polynomial In some games I'm ok with it, some not so much. I'm not sure why for either.

AviD

@Simon yeah, sure, she was probably 22.

Simon

She was at least @ScottPack's age.

AviD

13:18

yesterday, by AviD

Ahem. If you are 23 years old, YOU ARE NOT A MILF. you are a little kid, just barely out of the child pornography section.

Scott Pack

@AviD My grandmother's neighbor became a grandmother at 27.

Polynomial

@AviD I dunno, I did kinda like the CGI one with all that stuff about Gaia

what was it, The Spirits Within?

Scott Pack

@Polynomial The movie? Yeah.

Polynomial

I remember two CGI movies and one of them sucked, and the other was good

AviD

@Polynomial my kids enjoyed the animated series.

@Polynomial one of them sucked, the other sucked harder.

Polynomial

13:19

but then I guess I didn't really get into the games / backstory so I didn't see any "what the hell this doesn't fit at all" aspect

like watching World War Z without reading the book

AviD

heh, that would be a great set of action / pornos - "Suck Hard" and "Suck Harder".

Polynomial

Suck Hard With A Vengeance is a bit creepy

AviD

@Polynomial they made a game out of Fantastic Four....?

Polynomial

"Live Free or Suck Hard"

lol

@AviD ?

probably

I dunno

AviD

Fantastic Four

The Fantastic Four is a fictional superhero team appearing in comic books published by Marvel Comics. The group debuted in The Fantastic Four #1 (cover dated Nov. 1961), which helped to usher in a new level of realism in the medium. The Fantastic Four was the first superhero team created by writer-editor Stan Lee and artist/co-plotter Jack Kirby, who developed a collaborative approach to creating comics with this title that they would use from then on. As the first superhero team title produced by Marvel Comics, it formed a cornerstone of the company's 1960s rise from a small division of ...

Polynomial

13:22

I know what Fantastic Four is :P

AviD

@Polynomial ohh are you still on Final Fantasy? Last time you said FF I thought you switched to the Four...

Polynomial

I just didn't get why you bought it up.

yeah I meant Final Fantasy

or the new one, FFIVXZQQPXSV

AviD

now I'm all confused about which parts of our conversation were about what.

Polynomial

I think you were the only one talking about Fantastic Four.

AviD

huh. So why did you bring them up?

Terry Chia

13:24

@AviD You brought them up.

AviD

Was Jessica Alba in Final Fantasy movie?

Polynomial

^

who bought up Jessica Alba?

AviD

8 mins ago, by AviD

Except for Jessica Alba.

Terry Chia

@Polynomial I'm interested to know this.

Polynomial

right, anyway, bbl

AviD

13:26

okay, nevermind. This was just one of those conversations where we talked past each other.

Simon

14:33

Hello, my name is @AviD and my favorite activity is to kill the chat.

Scott Pack

Sorry. I'm still plowing through a 800-18 document.

Simon

A 800-18 document, you say? That sounds amazing.

Scott Pack

mm

AviD

@ScottPack the transcript from today?

Scott Pack

It's the NIST document that describes how to format a Security Plan for an information system with respect to 800-53 defined security controls.

AviD

14:39

oo, exciiiiiiting

Simon

Oh, the famous 800-53.

Scott Pack

800-53 makes for a good framework for a security program, but it's rather dry.

Simon

And God knows how dry humping sucks.

Terry Chia

@Simon Did you tell her that?

Simon

My non-existent her? Sure did.

I didn't mean to pull an @AviD, I'm sorry.

Scott Pack

14:48

There we go. Finally Canadian. Eh.

Simon

I'M SORRY.

You know how much of a prejudice this whole "aboot" thing is?

Nobody in the eastern part of Canaduh Lands say that.

Scott Pack

Except for the podcasters I listen to who are from Montreal.

AviD

@Simon Let's go to the mall.

Terry Chia

►

AviD

Todaaay.

Simon

14:50

God damn it. They probably grew up in the west.

Terry Chia

@Simon Are you afraid of the dark?

Simon

Funny how I got 2 quotes of HIMYM at the same time.

Scott Pack

@Simon You mean the west side of the city?

Terry Chia

►

Simon

@TerryChia Yo, don't even kid about that, the dark is so scary for Canadians.

@ScottPack noooooooooooooo

Scott Pack

14:51

Because, based on his constant pimping of Chimera Games, I'm guessing he's eastenr.

Simon

Honestly, I never EVER heard that here.

However, when I watch Canadian shows, it happens quite a bit.

Scott Pack

Oo, here we go. This is one of those guys.

►

Xander

@Simon My brother-in-law, who was born and raised in Ontario says it too.

Scott Pack

Notice that around :23 he says "ootlet"

Then at :46 he says "aboot"

Simon

@Xander Sigh. Why have I never heard it IRL?

Really? That didn't sound like "aboot" to me at all.

Xander

14:54

@Simon You have, you just can't tell because you're a Canadian. Your ears are deaf to your own defects, essentially.

AviD

►

Simon

Fuck, you know what it means then...

I'M ABOOTED.

AviD

Canada frozen icy wasteland.

Simon

@Xander Yep. Fuck.

Scott Pack

Most people can't recognize the weirdnesses of their own accents.

Jim Carrey is Canadian? Jesus. That explains so much.

Terry Chia

14:56

@Simon Is Tim Hortons really that good?

Simon

@TerryChia I really like it.

Scott Pack

@TerryChia They make pretty good donuts yes.

@TerryChia Drive Through coffee that actually tastes good too.

Simon

It's even better at like 11 PM.

For whatever reason.

Transcript for