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00:02
hehe, nice ideas.
I'm not too worried about the worst case, I'm covered there, no need for real HA and I can always fallback on my ISP router.
I'm curious about the common case.
but as you say, hard to tell. I guess it can equally go either way.
just glad to hear you saying anything other than "NO WAY DONT TOUCH THOSE"
thanks @Gilles.
15 hours ago, by AviD
So, it would be okay to eat a drunk coed with a camel-toe?
3 hours ago, by AviD
hows it work with touch?
2 hours ago, by AviD
@RoryMcCune ah, she's jailbroke?
2 hours ago, by AviD
@LucasKauffman congrats! vodka should get the taste out.
2 hours ago, by AviD
I enjoyed the part of convincing them how great we/I am, and we can give them what they need. The price-negotiation part, not so much.
9 mins ago, by AviD
just glad to hear you saying anything other than "NO WAY DONT TOUCH THOSE"
Your conversation is … interesting @AviD
(though you'd have a really hard time topping that first one)
00:21
@Gilles LOL
MY WORDS WERE TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT.
I DID NOT HAVE SEX WITH THAT WOMAN.
7
actually, some of those were pretty rude in context, too.
but I blame the @scott.
@AviD you refer to your wife as “that woman”?
@Gilles no, your mom!
bazinga!
oh wait... dammit.
this is amusing: a Steve Jobs movie, starring.... Ashton Kutcher. techreport.com/news/24269/…
@AviD you refer to your wife as “your mom”? Well, that does make sense, when you're talking to your children
01:05
Two points. 1: @AviD, you shouldn't blame me for you being such a creeper. 2: @Gilles, I would like to have on the record that, no matter my place of origin, I am unlikely to be the product of incest.
I... have no response to that.
01:18
so why is Amazon alluva sudden so much cheaper for parts, than Newegg?
01:45
@Gilles Ohhh that's so wrong.
@TerryChia And it feels SO GOOD!
02:07
@RoryMcCune Just read that EVE article. I don't play the game but damn.. that sounds epic.
02:40
I still don't understand why the option to enable USB Debugging is under Applications->Development.
@ScottPack Android?
Probably because normal users don't know and don't care about it.
The wife's phone stopped syncing any accounts on Saturday, even though they're all set to auto-sync. And I hit the sync now button.
@TerryChia That's fine, but why under that tree? Why not 'Security' or 'Connect to PC'?
@ScottPack Probably just an arbitrary decision based on the fact that the feature is gonna be mostly used by developers.
02:43
Fuck developers.
@ScottPack That's the general consensus.
Mm
Does it seem unreasonable that the entire time I've been working on this thing the Facebook app is always in the top 3 slots for cpu usage?
Nope, the Facebook app is a poorly optimized resource hog.
I really hate using it.
Hm. 75MB free on phone. I wonder if that's the culprit.
03:37
So I'm trying to encrypt hidden form data in a HTTP POST and realized I'm recreating _viewstate (minus the controls)
Anyone know if ASP.NET MVC4+ allows for _viewstate that is encrypted with MachineKey?
0
Q: How do I emulate an *encrypted* non-tamperable Viewstate in ASP.NET MVC?

makerofthings7Classic ASP used an encrypted Viewstate as a hidden field in a form. One of the benefits of this is that the cryptography was "authenticated", meaning that any tampering would be detected in addition to the privacy features available in an encrypted payload. There are many many questions on thi...

@makerofthings7 Of the people usually hanging out in the chat room, probably either @AviD or @Polynomial.
 
3 hours later…
07:03
The OP has asked for this to be sent to sec.se serverfault.com/questions/474022/what-is-cert-pinning ping me if you want it.
07:39
@Iain Hi Iain - yes, that would work here. Send it on over. Cheers :-)
@RoryAlsop all yours - cheers
 
1 hour later…
09:11
@TerryChia yeah it does sound awesome, but I'd never play, I just don't have the time that you'd need to dedicate to it. What I thought was interesting was how they're developing their own social structures, economy and language.
 
1 hour later…
10:36
just saw it tweeted by i0n1c
Cybersyscan in Cybersingapore will most probably be Cyberawesome and you will cyberly regret to cybermiss it.
and the open Cyberbar
haha
Z'ers no Canada like French Canada, it's ze best Canada in ze land! The other Canada is a bullshit Canada, if you lived here for a day you'd understand!
love this episode.
heh, this is cool: hackaday.com/2013/01/21/…
10:54
@Polynomial curse you corporate proxy. apparently that site has been categorised and "hacking"... god forbid we should have developers learn about how to break into their programs, so that they can learn to write them more securely... grrr..
heh
hackaday isn't hacking at all in the sense that they're blocking anyway :P
I can put a request to open it up. Oddly we had sexydefence.com blocked as a porn site. keyword blocking ftw
@RoryAlsop Ugh, $_$
@RoryMcCune Yeah, EVE sounds more like a second job than a game.
@ColinCassidy hahaha
"but... but... but... we only make turbines, why would anyone use a PC for anything other than outlook..."
11:01
@ColinCassidy WTF is outlook? IE6 all the way!
@RoryMcCune They apparently take roleplaying VERY seriously as well.
@TerryChia oh no, we're high-tech, we've got IE 8 and everything
@RoryAlsop Dropped you an email back :)
@Polynomial looks good dude - will see what I can do with it :-)
will keep you posted
cheers :D
@RoryAlsop Oh that's not the best line:
> After that, there are terrifying lunatics who know SO MUCH about Windows Internals that they write a WHOLE KERNEL from scratch for a bizarre stunt-OS that is binary compatible with Windows - presumably after a drunk bet got waaay out of hand.
actually scratch that, there are some even better lines in that announcement :)
11:20
@Sadaluk it is a good one :-)
ooh - what animal are you now?
@RoryAlsop This is my first animal avatar. Gonna leave it open for bored people to work out what it is, though :) (AND NO USING GOOGLE IMAGE SEARCH!)
@Sadaluk looks like a hyena from one o them thar lion films
but I haven't watched it so not sure
Damn
and the kids aren't here to tell me
Yeah it is. It's Ed, the slightly crazy one that can't speak.
11:21
hahahaaha - now I need to go and have a look online. Sounds great! :-)
overheard at work... "it's more readable in perl"
@ColinCassidy were they comparing it to egyptian hieroglyphics by any chance?
@RoryMcCune to be honest I've had more luck translating heiroglyphs
Holy crap this is a cool hardware mod: youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zWKhb6EOgJQ
essentially turned a gameboy colour into a multi-platform emulator
with all sorts of epic features
11:47
@AviD the lady doth protest too much.
 
2 hours later…
14:01
does anyone know anything about websphere, especially regarding the keystore?
 
1 hour later…
15:13
@LucasKauffman I may be able to help, especially if the keystore is used in a similar way to Jetty's
I've used it a little, but not a lot.
what does it basically do?
it stores the private key and certificate right?
@LucasKauffman it's a store of your certs, iirc.
so if you have the password for the keystore, that's a bad thing right?
I'm not sure where your SSL private key goes
@LucasKauffman no, that's the default.
@LucasKauffman it's not passworded for reading -- it's passworded for modification
aha I see
15:14
@LucasKauffman if you mean "you" == the bad guy, then yes, absolutely.
@Tinned_Tuna by default. can, and should, change that too.
@AviD yea indeed
@AviD iirc, the keytool won't let you have anything less than 6 chars.
@Tinned_Tuna whoooop!! yay, 6 chars for everyone!!
"Changes the password used to protect the integrity of the key-store contents. The new password is new_storepass, which must be at least 6 characters long."
from the keytool man page
it's called PKCS12
15:17
oh, I believe you that its the way it is. I just believe that the way it is, is stupid.
@LucasKauffman that's a standard.
@Tinned_Tuna so's your face.
@AviD that's nice thank you :-)
@LucasKauffman what're you trying to do ?
@Tinned_Tuna I'm trying to assess the risk of what could happen if an attacker got his hands on a websphere pkcs12 file
with a default password
@LucasKauffman can they read it, or modify it?
@LucasKauffman is your application making (i.e. effectively being the client) in any SSL/TLS connection?
e.g. opening an TLS connection to an LDAP server
15:34
@Tinned_Tuna I haven't got a clue
@LucasKauffman basically that keystore (usually) takes the place of the cacerts directory in a typical openssl install. However, it depends what you're using the keystore to
.. do. If you're using it to store non-default keys, then it can cause a problem
generally it'll only have publicly available CA certs
what I'm wondering is if it also has contains the private key of the server, for instance if I have the keystore, does it contain the key that would allow me to decrypt traffic between client and server
but it can be used to store other keys.
well there are two files
the Key.p12 and the Trust.p12
the last one is indeed used for cacerts
@LucasKauffman it depends on the setup.
15:39
I'm just wondering if I could do a MITM with what I have now
Some places don't have the servlet container do any SSL, they hand it off to an local apache/nginx install that does all the SSL. But I assume if your application is doing and SSL connections directly, then yes, a keystore leak might be a problem.
@LucasKauffman very often, keys that are used to encrypt the configuration file (e.g. db conn strings) are stored in the keystore too.
also often, keys used to applicatively encrypt sensitive data - e.g. service passwords, CCD, etc.
so yeah, pretty durn bad.
@AviD unless you're JasperReports, in which case the passphrase is in the config file and doesn't get set automagically :-p
(Or, at least it didn't in 4.7)
@Tinned_Tuna oh no, there are plenty others like that.
(btw @Tinned_Tuna if you click reply, others will know which message you're replying to. and the username gets pushed in automatically.)
click reply?
ohh, you can reply to individual messages?
15:45
@Tinned_Tuna yep - the wee arrow to the right of a message
@RoryAlsop Too awesome !
as a personal learning project, im going to see why its impossible to switch the cpu into kernel mode (via int 0x80), then to somehow trick it into staying in kernel mode while executing instructions i have control over. i know i will fail, but i think understanding why this is impossible should be a good thing to know, right?
@lynks It is all in the MMU
Each page has access rights
the access rights are in tables which the kernel manages
the kernel takes care to put the tables in pages which are never marked as "user-writeable"
and the kernel also takes care never to jump into code which is not his own
@ThomasPornin what part of the system knows what ring the CPU is in? can that be subverted in some way?
15:54
@lynks The CPU knows it
only the CPU, actually
the kernel code just assumes that when it is executed, it is with ring 0 privileges
interrupt handlers start in ring 0
@ThomasPornin see this is where i get fuzzy, what instruction tells the CPU to change ring, and why can only the kernel execute that instruction?
@lynks There is no specific instruction which "sets" the ring, but you change ring when:
-- you trigger an interrupt
-- you return from an interrupt handler
-- you call a "call gate"
-- you use the newer syscall opcode
the table which tells where interrupt handlers are is in RAM
but setting the address of that table in the CPU (with a specific opcode) is reserved to ring 0 code
And the kernel takes care to never let the pages containing this table be user-writeable
@ThomasPornin im starting to see the chain of trust. i guess the CPU powers on in ring 0?
If you can convince the kernel to put the interrupt table into pages that you can modify, then you could make the CPU jump to arbitrary places with ring 0 privileges
and ring 0 could be used to do physical damage to hardware..?
15:59
@lynks the CPU powers in "real mode". At some point, the bootloader sets a flag in the cr0 register, which switches to "protected mode" (where there are rings) and, indeed, it starts its life in ring 0
Ring 0 code has uncontrolled access to I/O ports (the in and out opcodes) which gives it quite some leverage on hardware
Including triggering firmware update procedures on hardware which has flashable firmware, so I guess this count as "damage"
In older times, privileged code could make the graphic card send high-frequency signals to the CRT display, and could damage it
@ThomasPornin tell the motherboard to turn off the cpu fan?
but newer CRT have protections against that, and LCD panels are immune
or is that pure hardwiring
very interesting
@lynks Yes, could be done. But most motherboards have a failsafe which cannot be deactivated, and shuts down everything if the temperature rises too much
the other big one would be to cause thermal run-away in batteries.
16:05
What should be remembered is that hardware is oblivious to kernel/userland distinctions
ring levels are a CPU concept
other hardware does not care
it is up to the CPU to allow or disallow hardware accesses
understood, thank you very much
got a q for all you hardware geeks. I'm having a brain fart, and too tired right now to figure this out.
@Sadaluk: the aeskeygenassist opcode allows for managing two subkey words in parallel so that you can make key schedule twice faster. Indeed, the key schedule for a single AES allows for that.
RAM modules, dual channel / triple channel / quad channel - different modules, or just a question of how many you stick in in parallel?
e.g. if i get a set of dual channels (2 modules), can I then add a 2nd pair of duals?
or do they need to be 4 modules of quad?
it's... been a while since I've built a system.
"*-channel" means that some memory modules will be accessed simultaneously. It may happen only between identical modules.
Then it all depends on the motherboard, which may or may not allow what you envision
16:14
@ThomasPornin right, that I know.
but are two pairs of dual equivalent to quad?
I need to do that hashing benchmark on my friend's rPi...
@AviD Theoretically, quad-channel requires four identical modules and offers twice the bandwidth than dual-channel. If you have two distinct pairs, then you will probably do dual-channel
not both pairs working simultaneously
I meant that both pairs are the same.
but not bought as a quad channel kit.
@Sadaluk: cross-unit opcodes are expensive in the CPU, which is why the keygen opcode works only on xmm registers (opcodes which handle both xmm and a 32-bit register are a special category). Since they were using xmm, they could fit two parallel key schedule units, so they did. It does not matter often (key schedule is not a frequent operation, with regards to block encryption).
@AviD I don't think that modules are specially marked with their originating "kit". As long as the four modules are identical with each other, they should qualify for quad-channel as well as a packaged "kit".
I'm contemplating between getting 4 modules of quad, or 2 modules of dual (both totalling the same GBs). Right now, I'd probably be better off with the 4 quads (price notwithstanding), but I'm looking for upgrayddability - If I can add another identical pair of duals later on, that will allow me to gracefully move to quad at double the size.
16:19
(Advice provided without any guarantee, of course)
@ThomasPornin cool, thats what I wasnt sure about.
I'm looking forwards to CPUs being 128bit. I wonder when it'll happen, if ever?
@ThomasPornin heh, it always is.
@Tinned_Tuna CPU already have 128-bit registers (SSE2), even 256-bit registers (AVX)
@Tinned_Tuna year 2112.
16:20
@AviD I think the more important question is whether or not your RAM has blue strobe lights overclockers.co.uk/…
they will have generic purpose integer registers of size 128 bits when it will become relevant, i.e. when there will be more than 64 bits of address space to manage.
It may take a bit of time before reaching that point.
hehe, yeah, seen that stuff.... I couldnt really care less about how it looks. If I'm doing this right, I should never have to look away from my screen again, let alone peer into a dusty ol' case.
hell, I dont even want to see the case at all. it should be tucked away in some closet somewhere.
@AviD dusty? get a dust-free case :P
@lynks sure, for perfomance / noise / heat reasons. Still have no interest in climbing in there, except for purposes of working there (hopefully upgrades). I don't need to watch the pretty little lights, or show off my memory colors.
@ThomasPornin aha, you being the crypto authority on here, what is the risk if I have a PCKS12 store with a default password (key.p12) on IBM WebSphere?
16:26
@AviD I run Fractal Designs cases; stunning, silent and I never have to remove dust from inside, not a spec, in years.
pretty. what are they like on the inside?
I subscribe to the Atwood School of Hardware. It has to be awesome all the way through.
I have an Antec 1200
I like it
@AviD very solid, aluminium throughout, painted black on all surfaces, click in/out HDD trays, rubber holes for cable tidying (i shall take a photo of mine later, you will see no cables :P)
Lyanli is pretty as well, but quite expensive
I bought an Antec for my previous build a few years ago, based on his recommendation. Well placed.
Huuuuuge difference from regular cases that I've dealt with in the past.
16:29
@LucasKauffman LianLi are awesome too.
hmm. Okay, so in a performance system (but not crazy overclocked gaming rig), which is more significant wrt RAM: and increase in clock speed, or lower timings?
@AviD interesting, im not sure, but I would say FSB frequency wins the day as that has knock-on effects
@lynks meaning what?
since the timings are based on number of clock cycles, making the cycles shorter means that overall time is lower too.
@AviD meaning that your system will bottleneck at whichever has the lowest frequency - cpu or ram.
so buying faster ram will do literally nothing if your cpu won't use it
hmm, maybe I should just do the math. problem is, timings usually affect first blocks more, whereas the clock would affect bursts too.
16:42
@AviD I would go for 9-9-9 timings, the difference with for instance 7-7-7 timings i s not that big, but the price difference is
@lynks ahh, no - I'm talking only about the ram now.
and memory is cheap anyway
I'd invest in a better cpu
i.e. ram with faster clock, but higher timings - vs. slower clock / lower timings.
@LucasKauffman thats seperate.
@LucasKauffman and, news is that memory prices are about to soar in the next month or so.
@AviD yeah but what I'm saying is that you can't make that decision without knowing your CPU bus frequency
so now is the time for it...
@lynks ahh, I see what you mean - if the ram has a faster clock than the cpu, then it's being wasted. Thats what you mean?
if so - then good point :).
16:44
@AviD yeah
@AviD why would they soar?
because the prices are going up.
ah you mean the clock of the memory
@AviD generally you push up the bus speed and dram voltage until the RAM starts to freak out (memtest), then you push up the CPU multiplier and core voltage until the CPU starts to freak out
but why are prices going up?
16:46
@LucasKauffman prices always go up
@LucasKauffman it's a govt. conspiracy to keep everyone poor and working.
memory fluctuates massively
(The previous statement was in jest)
got my 3.2GHz ivbridge (8 vcores) purring at 4.1GHz with idle temps of 32C, load temp of 62Cish.
@lynks very cool.
but to be honest - I'm not sure how much I'd notice that.
sure, its fun and all, and a vague sense of accomplishment, but I doubt the performance would improve.
I prefer stability, and not spending many hours hopefully not breaking something expensive that I need.
Besides the fun, of course.
@AviD all depends on what you use it for. i run some pretty heavy applications, adding almost 30% throughput makes a huge difference to me.
16:58
@LucasKauffman see e.g. techreport.com/news/24281/…
@lynks after you get the memory, disk, and mobo bottlenecks out of the way, sure. I guess.
@AviD yeah absolutely, but pushing up the FSB frequency is what really makes the difference, the ultimate CPU clock speed is less important. add never running a swap, crucial ssds in raid, and you're flying :P
@lynks right, thats what I was thinking. at this point, the overclocking gains are less crucial than those other points.
@AviD again, it all just comes down to your usage model, disk speed doesn't come into play much in what i do. i run long-lived apps that reside wholly in memory a lot of the time.
so good (== size+speed) memory would come in to play more than raw cpu clock speed.
hang on, I found it.
3
A: RAM types and speed

David SchwartzPriority one: Clock speed. Higher numbers are better. Priority two: Latency. Lower numbers are better. Priority three: Voltage. Lower numbers are better. Priority four: Heat sink. Cooler looking is better.

and there you have it.
yeah, and vcores are important to me too, some of my processes spawn over 4000 threads in a few minutes.
17:08
daaang. what is this, some form of interactive porn?
> ohhh baby, imma spawn my threads all over you.
that particular example is an mmo server
in a style i like to call 'thread oriented programming'
@lynks @AviD lol
17:50
@ThomasPornin Ah, ofc. That makes a lot of sense. I didn't see there being any harm in the way they had done it, but aside from the parallel keyschedule (can't think how often that would be necessary) I couldn't see much point in it. Thanks, I knew you'd know!
18:03
2
Q: Does adding dictionary words to passwords weaken them?

user194346This might sound like a stupid question, but hear me out. If I'm encrypting my financial information and sensitive data via a program like TrueCrypt, the strength of the password is going to matter a great deal. The common advice is not to use dictionary words. I understand that. But what happen...

@LucasKauffman I don't know about Websphere, but a PKCS#12 with a known password is equivalent to just having the objects contained therein as so many plain files.
I.e. any private key in that file is known.
18:30
@AviD How does one quantify "cool looking heatsink"? What if I draw a pair of sunglasses on it. Does that make it cooler?
@ScottPack Only if they are aviators!
@Sadaluk I can work with that.
@ScottPack if you can fit a skateboard on, I think that adds to the cool factor too. At least if any of the TV shows I've seen involving US teenagers are accurate, anyhow.
19:02
Afternoon, everyone!
19:15
@David evening!
@LucasKauffman how goes it?
chilaxing
@LucasKauffman maxin' all cool?
@ScottPack shooting some b-ball outside of the school
Good man.
19:30
The same goes for how viruses are typically represented. Viruses are a pain, but they can't damage your hardware, browse for porn under your name, or infect alien spacecraft. Dear LifeHacker: 2/3, unless you're controlling a centrifuge. Then 1/3. Unless the intelligent being really likes , then 0/3 and @Scott will flip his shit.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻)
2
19:48
@ScottPack stupid lookin'.
 
1 hour later…
21:07
@AviD So's your mom's face.
21:30
-1
Q: Are there any extra security risks with leaving wireless enabled while ethernet is connected?

dolanMainly I'm wondering if operating systems will always use ethernet for internet connections if it is available, falling back to wireless when it is not. My thinking is based around the security threat of someone snooping on a wireless connection, and would prefer for that vulnerability to not be...

"wants security, too lazy to press a button"
@ScottPack waited for laser eyes
Don't confuse the Dalai Lama. He'll go all laser eyes on you.
22:42
@ScottPack How does that .gif not exist yet?
@JeffFerland it does
@Lucas I don't see the "too lazy to press a button" at all. It's a valid question regarding a scenario that's not uncommon. I see folks wire up (particularly in conference rooms) all the time without disabling wireless, and IMO it's useful to know if there are security implications here.
@Xander I refer to: Yet, don't want to go through (minor) hassle of disabling wireless.
23:07
3
Q: Is Microsoft Word 2010's "encrypt with password" secure?

Ken ShawI have heard that security in earlier versions of word was not robust. With Word 2010, if I use the File > Info > Protect Document > Encrypt with Password option, is this a secure way to protect a file? Or is it trivial to crack the security provided by this option?

@Gilles I bet their password was test
@LucasKauffman I always use Test1234. Don't you know a password must contain at least one uppercase letter and one digit?
Ab1234 is my prefered pass
hunter2
hunter2
23:20
@Lucas I totally agree that it's easy to disable wireless as an individual user. But from a sysadmin perspective (and in real life I'm not, so this is purely theoretical for me, but not necessarily for people Googling this topic) what are the security implications for employees that don't turn off wireless?
err, i mean *******
I normally use swordfish when I'm testing stuff
<now watching the SSH login attempts with gilles:swordfish>
@Gilles But first, look at this picture of a cat so I have your IP address...
@JeffFerland I will if you look at this cat picture
2
Warning: may cause blindness, dementia, or the rising of Elder Gods
@Gilles EGADS!!!!
Fortune Days by Glitch Mob oddly reinforces that image.

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