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12:00 AM
eh, probably its me being subjective, based on the OP.
 
 
3 hours later…
3:12 AM
@AviD The wikipedia article on STV will get you pretty far along the way, as will the conversation we had here right after the vote.... But to get all the way there, expect to spend some quality time with Arrow's theorem, a spreadsheet, and some aspirin....
 
 
1 hour later…
4:20 AM
@AviD I think, given the great answer and the final overhaul of the question, it can be left as it is. Then again, given that I was the one who did the overhaul, I may be biased.
 
 
5 hours later…
8:59 AM
@Iszi yeah, on second reading I realized it was just residual badfeel from the original. The current form is good, great edit.
 
9:22 AM
@nealmcb saw the convo, dont really need the math, just wanted the gist of it (and the high level theory). the wiki article did a good job there.
Though I think the biggest coin dropping was grokking the single part of stv - I was under the impression we all had 3 votes, when in actuality we only have one. the 2nd and 3rd choice are only counted if the 1st is either already elected, or no chance of election. Is that correct?
so what happens, if there is not enough consensus on the 2nd choice for an already elected candidate, such that the proportion cannot be kept after removing excess votes?
 
9:38 AM
Hey @AviD!
 
9:50 AM
@Mvy hey @Mvy
good diurnal isomorphism to you!
thats right, I'm bringing it back!
 
^^ thx, same :P
 
urggh, the only thing I hate writing more than RFP's is responses to them.
 
RFP?
 
10:08 AM
request for proposal
I think its similar to RFQ (request for quotes), but in my mind at least RFQ is more appropriate to OTS product, with a fixed(-ish) price, as opposed to a services-based proposal....
 
10:21 AM
Hm, i now have a big hammer, but no place to talk about it.
 
Jul 10 at 23:10, by Scott Pack
user image
just to make sure you have one in hand.
and, as long as I'm trawling the archives, never forget:
Sep 13 at 21:43, by Rory Alsop
user image
 
11:00 AM
@AviD can you get me an invite to the lounge?
 
@HendrikBrummermann ymean teachers lounge? should have access.
hmm... I notice your name is not in blue.
try logging out of chat, and logging back in - that should pick up your mod status, and that grants you access.
 
11:56 AM
@HendrikBrummermann seems you need to set your chat account to security profile
Well I heard of that once
 
12:34 PM
@AviD Seriously? I got the person and the event, but you're going to make me go google the year? :-|
@AviD Tell me about it. We're doing a SIEM RFP right now. On the plus side, we've already gone through the responses and this week we have our first onsite for the bake-off stage.
 
@HendrikBrummermann You need to associate your chat account to the site where you're a moderator (it's currently associated with SO)
 
@AviD To give a bit more clarification -- For instance, here we would use an RFQs when we have an exact product we want. I.e., "I need 150 9"x14" chaffing dishes with stands for insert product here burners."
And an RFP for "We want a new SIEM. Here is our 25 page questionnaire/requirements. Build a design and convince us how it meets those requirements."
 
@Gilles thank you.
 
 
5 hours later…
6:11 PM
@ScottPack hehe, no, you get the points. I was just hasslin' ya
@ScottPack yeah, I guess reading a pile of equally putrid responses can be mindnumbing....
@Gilles @HendrikBrummermann oo yeah, forgot to mention that. I guess that was the issue, you're blue now.
that also means you now have uber-mod powers all over chatland....
@ScottPack ahh that makes good sense.
but still not disagreeing with what I wrote, just more precise
 
@AviD yes, there's only one vote. I think the key part from wikipedia and what requires the aspirin edition of excel is this:
> There are variations in applying these STV rules, such as in how to transfer surplus votes from winning candidates and whether to transfer votes to already elected candidates. When the number of votes to transfer from a losing candidate is too small to change the ordering of remaining candidates, more than one candidate can be eliminated simultaneously.
Running different versions of STV elected different third place candidates; I tried several and depending on the algorithm I think I managed to elect every candidate...!
 
6:31 PM
@Ninefingers thats.... shocking.
not trivial at all....
and here I thought it was gonna be a much simpler scheme, such as:
> 1. Give 3 points to each vote of 1st choice, 2 points for 2nd choice, and 1 point for 3rd choice.
> 2. Sum up all vote points.
> 3. Elect the 3 candidates with the highest scores.
but now I realize how naive that is.
 
@AviD it's not simple; that I think is one of the drawbacks of STV and why I personally voted against the alternative vote (or IRV) - a similar system - when the UK balloted it compared to first past the post (most votes wins). I think it's hard for people to understand that it depends on how you allocate the votes when eliminating or electing candidates.
 
but, especially based on the point that everyone only gets one vote, 2nd and 3rd choices notwithstanding.
@Ninefingers see, in my system, you dont need to eliminate or reallocate anything! single pass, 3 electees. very straightforward.
 
@AviD the problem is deciding, I think, say my vote. Let's say I cast my first vote for Rory and my second for Nealmcb. When Rory is elected (that happened quickly) does my vote go to nealmcb, or does my vote count towards Rory's 33% required to elect him? That will impact nealmb's score etc. So that's why it depends how votes are allocated.
Also, I that may or may not have been my actual voting preference. It was just an example.
 
6:48 PM
@Ninefingers right, I got that.
curious though if everyone else realized they are actually getting only one vote.
Then again, I rarely vote in political elections, so it may just be that I am a n00b at this....
 
@AviD I have starred that; I'm also interested. I expect so, but y'never know.
 
there was discussion earlier about those that voted only for 1st and 2nd (no 3rd). that sounded (maybe only to me, cuz I misunderstood it) like they were talking about a 3rd vote.
thank the jeff that you dont need to understand the election, in order to win it :)
 
@AviD No, I did not. I assumed more as you did, that I had 3 votes, of 3 different weights. Now, had I actually read what STV voting was, I might have known that from the outset.
 
7:19 PM
@ScottPack yay! I'm not the only dummy in the room! :)
 
Hey there!
Need other dummies?
 
I wouldn't go quite that far. ...
 
heh
well, as scott adams says, everybody is an idiot at some things.
I just learned enough about elections to realize that I have another one to add to my list :)
 
Kind of complicated,eh?
 
7:41 PM
havent even delved into the what the various types want to calculate differently. hurts my head.
look, I know "secure elections" are complicated enough, without worrying about calculating the results. protecting your privacy, but also allowing you to verify that your vote was counted, without allowing you to prove to anyone else to avoid vote sales... yeah, it's it's own field altogether.
truthfully, in most cases (political elections, anyway), it doesnt matter how uncorruptible the process is anyway, since the result will always be more corruption no matter who wins.
 
8:26 PM
@AviD Now that is a level of cynicism that downright warms the cockles of my heart.
 
 
2 hours later…
10:18 PM
@Ninefingers and anyone else interested in a Stack Exchange site about computer science:
3
Computer Science (Non-Programming)

Proposed Q&A site for computer Science practitioners, researchers, and CS students interested in topics like theoretical computer science, artificial intelligence, programming language design, digital logic, or any other area of CS not directly related to programming.

Currently in definition.

Let's hope it will survive this time!
 
10:43 PM
@Gilles I'll add some possible definition questions in the morning. I hope it survives. I've no real thoughts on the two-level split vs one huge site debate, but I think a place that accepts non-research level questions would be excellent - it would also assist TCS as they then have an obvious place to send those (non research level CS) questions.
 

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