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5:15 AM

(+1) Do you have any theory as to how KJV and NASB came to take it adjectivally? — ThaddeusB 2 hours ago

@ThaddeusB No idea, though the NASB does have a footnote “Lit one the face of”.

@Susan OK, a mystery it will remain. (Since you replied here instead of as a comment, I took that as a cue to delete the comment.)

FYI, The Q made the hot network questions list

Susan

@ThaddeusB Oh, I wasn’t really cuing; I've just done to much commenting recently. :-)

ThaddeusB

@Susan Heh. I may have made some progress with enegue, in case you haven't seen.

2 hours later…

James Shewey

7:10 AM

So, Revelation lad (bless his heart) is trying very hard on

-2

A: Was Ba'al relieving himself?

The meaning of the word שִׂ֛יג (Strongs H7873 - siyg) found in older sources: Gesenius’ Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon: the meaning as withdrawing, going away, from the roots שׂוּג (H7734) and סוּג (H5472) to go away. (HCSB) Brown Drivers Biggs: a moving back, away: there is a moving back to him...

And with his latest edit, I think he has struck upon something interesting - 3 of 4 of the actions Ba'al is said to be performing begin with שִׂ֧ and I'm wondering if this is intentional alliteration on the part of the author. Thoughts?

Susan

7:52 AM

@JamesShewey I think only two of them? But yes, I agree that there’s some intentional alliteration between those two which share a pronoun (what becomes in English the subject of verbs, in Hebrew preposition-fronted modifiers of nouns). (In bad English): “either there is conversation or ?defecation to him / or he is on a journey / perhaps he is asleep...". If it’s helpful: kî śîaḥ wəkî–śîg lô / wəkî–derek lô ʾ/ ûlay yāšēn hûʾ....

James Shewey

@Susan Two? I see: יָשֵׁ֥ן (sleeps), שִׂ֛יג (persuing/pooping/withdrawing), and שִׂ֧יחַ (musing)

That just leaves דֶ֣רֶךְ (journeying) as the odd man out.

Susan

@JamesShewey יָשֵׁ֥ן starts with a י = yod. yāšēn.

James Shewey

Ah - sure enough,

Susan

@JamesShewey A very small letter!

James Shewey

But perhaps this too is intentional?

Susan

8:03 AM

You mean that ש = shin = š in yāšēn? It’s a reasonably common letter....and a pretty common way to say “asleep”...and in the middle of a word separated from the others....I don’t think I’d make much of it.

James Shewey

Yes - that's what I meant.

In any event, the potential connection to David/Saul is pretty interesting

Susan

And actually, the other two are both sin rather than shin. Pronounced differently, at least per the MT, but written the same in the unpointed text.

@JamesShewey ? Oh, do I need to read that answer to understand?

James Shewey

Probably - the edit was pretty substantial.

Susan

8:39 AM

@JamesShewey I’m not sure I follow how he’s making that connection. Anyway, שיח is used way more than twice (20x for the verb and 14x for the noun) so that’s just wrong. And ישׁן is also not unusual (16x verb +9x adj.).

The other far-more-common word translated “sleep" (škb) is much less specific and more often means either lying down or having sex with rather than an emphasis on sleep vs wake. Amusingly - the very verse he references, 1 Sam 26:7, actually uses both - šōkēb yāšēn - “lying down sleeping” - which just goes to show that škb is too nonspecific to convey that on its own.

(Actually, it doesn’t indicate that - Hebrew is redundant as all get-out, but there are plenty of people doing various sorts of škb -ing while awake that could be brought to bear.)

James Shewey

Wait, so you mean to tell me it could mean "perhaps he's taking a dump or getting it on" - that's even more awesome.

Susan

@JamesShewey Woah, no. The term used in 1 Kings is specific for sleep. I’m just saying that it was probably chosen for that reason even though it’s less common than another term that is extremely versatile, contra that post which implies that it was a peculiar choice that must have been related to the David story.

(And the 1 Kings also follows with “and he will awake”.)

James Shewey

Oh - I see what you meant.

That is far less entertaining.

Susan

@JamesShewey You can go looking at all 212 instances of škb to entertain yourself, but I doubt it would be productive. ;-)

James Shewey

Lol. But maybe mildly entertaining. I have also been considering the idea of finding all possible references to using the facilities and studying them.

Susan

9:07 AM

@JamesShewey Should I ask what “using the facilities” means? Maybe not...

2 hours later…

Susan

11:01 AM

Q: What is the difference between en/eis for "Faith in Christ"?

Paul has several different phrases which all translate "Faith in Christ". This question pertains to the difference in meaning for faith in Christ where the English word "in" has a direct Greek word, either "en" or "eis". Is there a difference in the meaning when these greek words are used, or a...

Any opinions on duplicity, or lack thereof?

3 hours later…

Susan

1:50 PM

@JamesShewey Starting from something totally different, but you’ll love the link Joseph gave.

Susan

2:31 PM

Regarding that same question, can anyone enlighten me about the English reference from BDB:

> bless, with the antithetical meaning curse (Thes) from the greeting in departing, saying adieu to, taking leave of; but rather a blessing overdone and so really a curse as in vulgar English as well as in the Shemitic cognates:

My vulgar English is less-than-fluent apparently. I may just have to ask on English.SE.

2 hours later…

ThaddeusB

4:42 PM

@JamesShewey I don't think his musings have much relevance, but I did remove my DV (last night) as his answer is now at least not reliant treating Strong's as a dictionary and other faulty premises.

ThaddeusB

5:05 PM

Why nobody ever downvote Christian answers like these which make irrelevant conjectures and unreasonable projections. If I were to make such conjectures but with Jewish opinion and which violates Christian doctrine, it would be downvoted in a barrage. — Blessed Geek 8 hours ago

The guy is hopeless. He complains on every answer about how his (made up) translations get downvotes for "violating Christian theology" even when they have zero to do with theology.

James Shewey

I'm not sure I even realized you could flag comments. Done!

ThaddeusB

LOL, I accidentally overwrote my last chat message instead of posting a new one... Anyway you saw it in time, so now worries. :)

Caleb

@JamesShewey Yup. And it only takes a couple of users flagging something as non-constructive to auto-nuke comments without a mod ever having to come around and validate the flags. So don't hesitate.

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