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12:00 AM
[Minesweeper] Games Played: 87, Bombs Used: 51, Moves Performed: 11495, New Users: 14
actually I wouldn't be surprised if there was, but I don't know off the top of my head
hmm ... I meant something more structured than chat search
[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] 3 issue comments
I'm struggling to remember what I understood on Friday for how to fix the tests I broke.
If nothing else WPF is less bewildering than when I started. I can code myself out of my own paper bag problems.
12:45 AM
> # [Codecov](https://codecov.io/gh/rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck/pull/5357?src=pr&el=h1) Report
> :exclamation: No coverage uploaded for pull request head (`Issue5346_Extract_interface_creates_private_classes@d0a341a`). [Click here to learn what that means](https://docs.codecov.io/docs/error-reference#section-missing-head-commit).
> The diff coverage is `n/a`.
You able to help me with a few breadcrumbs Mug?
Sure what's up?
Mocking with Moq.
After my updates for extract interface I'm getting 4 failing tests.
Sorry I'm trying to articulate correctly.
12:55 AM
the good news is that they're failing, which means they compile =)
There is that.
Why are they failing though?
github.com/IvenBach/Rubberduck/blob/… is one of them. All 4 tests are ultimately failing on interfaceComponent.ExportAsSourceFile(...). The return value is null.
Based on what I know the interfaceComponent is being mocked and because I haven't explained to Moq what it's doing it can't provide a valid return value.
[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] build for commit d0a341a4 on unknown branch: AppVeyor build failed
we'll need to configure IVBComponents.Add to return a mock IVBComponent
1:03 AM
I think MDoerner did that already.
2 days ago, by M.Doerner
@IvenBach The AddComponentService should now allow you to to specify everything you need for the new component in your PR.
Argh... Didn't notice what time it was.
hm, but AddComponentService.AddComponent returns void
basically AddExposedAttribute is doing too many things for its own good
Talking with him Friday chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/14929?m=53267710#53267710 had me starting to understand. I want continue with my PR but can't finish it on my own.
I gotta head out. Hope to come back to chat after getting home. Class registration might keep me away.
basically all the VBIDE-level stuff isn't at the right abstraction level - that gruntwork problem-solving has already been made.. ttyl :)
1 hour later…
2:32 AM
> # [Codecov](https://codecov.io/gh/rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck/pull/5364?src=pr&el=h1) Report
> :exclamation: No coverage uploaded for pull request head (`RemoveRefLibraryStrings@f703ce9`). [Click here to learn what that means](https://docs.codecov.io/docs/error-reference#section-missing-head-commit).
> The diff coverage is `n/a`.
2:48 AM
[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] build for commit f703ce96 on unknown branch: AppVeyor build succeeded
> # [Codecov](https://codecov.io/gh/rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck/pull/5364?src=pr&el=h1) Report
> Merging [#5364](https://codecov.io/gh/rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck/pull/5364?src=pr&el=desc) into [next](https://codecov.io/gh/rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck/commit/5cc81de7fe77bd638834e85092dd1abd944a7a86?src=pr&el=desc) will **increase** coverage by `0.01%`.
> The diff coverage is `n/a`.

@@ Coverage Diff @@
## next #5364 +/- ##
[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] build for commit f703ce96 on unknown branch: 61.7% (target 0%)
[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] build for commit f703ce96 on unknown branch: Coverage not affected when comparing 5cc81de...f703ce9
4:11 AM
@MathieuGuindon does that mean it’s in a PR that needs to be submitted? A bit confused by your phrasing.
If the refactoring takes that service as a ctor parameter, a lot of code disappears, is what I meant ;-)
5:01 AM
@MathieuGuindon are you here?
@theVBE-it'srightforme not for long..
i got vs working and started playing around with vb.net
thank you for pushing me to do that
i fully get the motivation for RD now
vbe is so bad
anyways i just had a quick question about diamond problem with inheritance
is that only a thing if class D is inheriting from B and C rather than implementing B and C as interfaces
B and C inherit from common base interface A
then D implements B and C
could not find an answer from googling and figured it would be easy for you
hm, wiki should be pretty decent on the subject, hold on...
Multiple inheritance is a feature of some object-oriented computer programming languages in which an object or class can inherit characteristics and features from more than one parent object or parent class. It is distinct from single inheritance, where an object or class may only inherit from one particular object or class. Multiple inheritance has been a sensitive issue for many years, with opponents pointing to its increased complexity and ambiguity in situations such as the "diamond problem", where it may be ambiguous as to which parent class a particular feature is inherited from if more than...
maybe i missed it there
oh i didnt read that article
> If there is a method in A that B and C have overridden, and D does not override it, then which version of the method does D inherit: that of B, or that of C?
5:14 AM
oh yeah i did read it
i was getting hung up on
"class D inherits"
however if that is the key concept
inheritance, yes ;-)
well its hard to understand it when its something i couldnt use in VBA
it's normal, too
vb.net feels like the shackles are off a bit lol
i see why you said the temptation is there to do as little as possible in vba once you get into it
don't be fooled by the name: VB.NET is an entirely different beast
5:17 AM
oh i know
i mean ish
i understood it as basically C# except with syntax that was familiar
from what i'd looked up
with "familiar" being.... meh
it's a completely different language
yeah its just helpful for reading it
i know C# is preferred
gotta go, 'night!
mk ty for the help
2 hours later…
7:38 AM
@theVBE-it'srightforme VBA only experience makes it hard to step into C#. Keep going and it'll make sense.
2 hours later…
9:23 AM
@IvenBach honestly C# does make sense to me when I read it more than i thought it would
i used dotPeek to look at the inner workings of Winforms controls and was surprisingly capable of understanding what was going on
maybe because of my knowledge of .Net/OOP from VBA and mixed with first real programming class being a C/C++ mixture
but when actually writing something, VB syntax is so much easier because of the practice and because it feels a lot closer to human language
3 hours later…
12:25 PM
@this or a large corp working with 40-50 legacy systems!
worked for a place that grew massively by buying other companies. Let them run for about a year, then picked up all the hardware and about a dozen key people and moved them to "home base".
I worked in the data warehouse group and we got monthly data feeds for 40+ systems, standardized the data and inserted into the warehouse. 1 million or so rows from each system IIRC.
It was our procedure to drop indices, import data, rebuild indices. Of course, that was Oracle 7.x, so I wasn't sure A) how valid the drop/rebuild index claim was, and B) if it still applied to more modern SQLs
> me@GWX09MOHCWS003 MINGW64 /h/git/ROIReport/Source (AutoXferInProdOnly)
$ git status
On branch AutoXferInProdOnly
Untracked files:
(use "git add <file>..." to include in what will be committed)


nothing added to commit but untracked files present (use "git add" to track)

me@GWX09MOHCWS003 MINGW64 /h/git/ROIReport/Source (AutoXferInProdOnly)
$ git checkout master
error: The following untracked working tree files would be overwritten by checkout:
Please move or remove them before you switch branches.
Why does it only report the actual file name when I try to checkout a different branch, not when I do a status?
1 hour later…
1:47 PM
Are there any significant changes between VS2017 & VS2019 that I might notice? 99% of what I'm doing in there work related is SSIS.
totally independent of what impact it may have on RD...
2:46 PM
@Mast The snow belongs to whoever owns the water rights in that area. Likely the municipality. — Luck 19 hours ago
@Luck good. they don't have my permission to store their snow on my driveway, so they need to come and remove it. — Harper - Reinstate Monica 8 hours ago
Status update--I broke Spotify.
I quit the app, and it didn't stop, LOL.
I find that frequently happens on the Mac at our church. Of course, I'm not much of a Mac person, so maybe I'm not quitting Spotify properly.
I killed it through the system monitor.
And configured the CTRL-SHIFT-ESC shortcut I'm used to from Windows.
@Hosch250 one may laugh now but when a lunkhead wins a court case over that, and cause large change where permit will be now bigger, and be affixed to the entirety of the passenger's side of the dashboard , it won't be as funny.
I was laughing over the implied "because the city owns the snow, they must remove it from my driveway" argument.
Of course, the city could take that to extremes and take the snow off his entire yard.
Which would seriously damage his ground because the snow acts as insulation and keeps the frost from going too deep.
More likely: the city start fining everyone for having their snow on everyone's properties.
3:00 PM
And also piss his kids off, if he has any.
1 hour later…
4:27 PM
lol, the whole entire Facts.Orders.dtsx package completed in 2 minutes and 5 seconds. this is insane.
I'm just curious - does WPF support expressions to make a color lighter/darker?
for example SystemColors.Caption, Darker 15%
hm, doubt it
4:28 PM
I don't think so. I mean, at that point, it's really just a different RGB color.
making it expression-based makes it easier when you have more brushes than you have the system colors.
still, SystemColors.Caption * Black * 0.15 would be cool
@MathieuGuindon better show that to your boss!
yeah... except I fumbled the package parameterization and overnight ETL blew up last night
@MathieuGuindon I will have to rummage if someone had that problem and solved it already. Surely should be on SO or GH. Hopefully on nuget.
Kind of surprised it's not built-in. Access has that ability to do just that.
4:31 PM
@Hosch250 Pineapple ahoy Matey!
@MathieuGuindon feh. You're batting .500. That's insane in a major league baseball!
What was the previous time for execution Mug?
I'm not up to date with chat.
over 50 minutes for the order detail units, and that was after rewriting the header and details to complete in 11 and 14 seconds, respectively - before that the thing might have run for over 2 hours
in other news, I suck at SSIS
or SSIS sucks at performance and efficiency, but I'd be more inclined to think I've just done it wrong.
I find it that SSIS is better when you don't do so much. If all you do is move data from point A to B, it's great.
4:38 PM
2 hours reduced to 2 minutes. That's a good reduction.
but to get it right with all the lookups & transformations? Forget it.
That's why I usually prefer doing most of the work in stored procedure. Besides, it's much more testable that way
and tuning-capable
like @table -> #table -> poof, 50 minutes gone
IKR? Unreal.
been toying with batch sizes and various other knobs in SSIS. at one point I made all "facts" process sequentially, to reduce memory pressure (would blow up randomly with memory errors). still sequential to this day.
with the actual work done in stored procedures, I think I can make them parallel again
That's the other problem - it's darned impossible to tell whether works are parallelizable in SSIS
and there are several operators that can cause it to be non-parallelizable.
IIRC, if you had a lookup, that would cause it to be sequential
too many things to juggle => NFIWIMDA
4:47 PM
^ No Freaking Idea What I'm Doing Actually?
Anymore, but yes
Actually would work, too
I feel that way too.
The more tasks I seemingly show aptitude for the more requests I get.
if you wanted both, I guess you could opt for NFIWIMADA.
@IvenBach or that it means you're growing into a big boy!
My waist isn't big enough. I'm not ready for pants, they'll just fall down.
:click: Oh....
So that's why you wear a belt & suspenders.
Well, better than than being too big for your britches.
4:53 PM
I'm a hillbilly at heart but not the Walmart kind of hillbilly....
I mean, you wouldn't want to try and pull on a pant that's 3 sizes too small and crushing your family jewels in the process.
Whenever you grow into your pants is the time to get the next size up.
Like my pappy taught me "Just say no to crack."
Pretty sure he didn't have that particular kind of cracks in mind.
Knowing Iven's dad, he probably did :D
4:54 PM
The Peter principle is a concept in management developed by Laurence J. Peter, which observes that people in a hierarchy tend to rise to their "level of incompetence": an employee is promoted based on their success in previous jobs until they reach a level at which they are no longer competent, as skills in one job do not necessarily translate to another. The concept was elucidated in the 1969 book The Peter Principle by Dr. Peter and Raymond Hull.The Peter Principle was published by William Morrow and Company in 1969. Peter and Hull intended the book to be satire, but it became popular as it was...
I keep telling myself I'll only get so much responsibility.
More keeps coming when I don't ask.
5:34 PM
ugh I'm so annoyed today. SO annoys me. Excel-L mailing list annoys me. US Senate annoys me.
@MathieuGuindon be glad you're a Canuck?
I am
like, very
Don't hold it against us Mug.
When setting up a mocked object how do I accomplish that for a method which returns void?
you just set it up, and then you can verify whether it was invoked - that's all you need to test
we have few unit tests where we simply call it
on the premise that if there was a problem, an exception would be thrown which would fail the test
5:45 PM
I need more failing with it before comprehension start coalescing.
mock.Setup(m => m.DoStuff(...));
something like that
with It.IsAny<string>() & similar for arguments
and then mock.Verify(m => m.DoStuff(...)) asserts that the method was invoked as specified
That's the part I'm not understanding. I need to take each generic piece apart and understand them individually before using them together.
ugh. I hate that SQL Server won't allow use of alias in UPDATE or DELETE queries
update d
set d.DateUpdated = getdate()
from dbo.Foobar d
not that blasphemy
that's not SQL standard.
5:49 PM
huh, works perfectly well
works wonders with joins too
until you join it on non-key.
protip: don't join on non-keys
Maybe, but when you're normalizing crappy, it's going to disappoint you big time
because it won't tell you that it can't make sense. MERGE will give you an error if it can't map the row 1:1.
whereas UPDATE...JOIN will happily apply random values to it and go "what? I just did what you told me to do..."
but that's besides the point --- you're right that one could just do UPDATE ... FROM but the case here is I'm usually doing SELECT * FROM averylongandannoyingname AS a WHERE a.ID = 123;, then changing to SELECT * to DELETE and then SSMS whine about aliases then.
so I have to remove the a.. Why? I like typing less!
Much more annoying when there's a subquery (e.g. an EXISTS)
Can't you just do delete a then?
5:53 PM
delete a from dbo.FooBar a where a.Foo = 42
now that's a good question :)
5:55 PM
yeah, I now feel like a dunce
for update, it doesn't work as well since you have to change the select list into SET expression but well, that's an improvement for delete, I guess
now I wonder if that allows joins on a DELETE. I always thought you could not.
it does
I do that all the time
... it most certainly do.
That is so weird! I swear, I've never seen that particular usage.
and I've read lot of SO threads or SQL Server forums.
I see the UPDATE...FROM in plenty of place but never DELETE ... FROM
I learned that through trial and error :P
I still struggle to understand most SQL docs.
6:01 PM
I can imagine that Joe Celko will scowl every time he sees someone using UPDATE...FROM, since that's not standard.
OTOH, I think he scowls at basically anything.
> Britney Spears, Automobiles, and Squids
That's the second time I've seen that term in a few days, LOL.
yeah I saw that article -- where was the 2nd place you saw?
The Joe Celko Apprentice blog.
Where they compile his responses from QA sessions after talks.
Someone was doing something wrong, and he told them to stop making a "Britney Spears, Automobiles and Squids module"
Looks like it's one of his sayings.
I don't remember where I saw it in the first place now, LOL.
6:10 PM
I saw it in a redgate article
didn't know about the apprentice blog
I have to wonder - is he dating himself with the Britney reference?
I mean, she hasn't been in news for a while.... right?
@this Don't know. I don't follow the news.
If it's important enough for me to know, it leaks down to me somehow.
I hadn't, so I assume she either faded away from the spotlight or fell off something tall.
Celebrity stuff isn't important enough to make it all the way down to me.
6:32 PM
> Rows are not records; fields are not columns; tables are not files
All I know of DB is a lie?
I can easily see the "tables are not files" thing.
That's entirely an implementation detail.
Just like "classes go on the heap, structs on the stack." That is entirely up to the runtime implementation.
When running unit tests the project for the implementing class is a mocked object. Does the behavior for the IVBComponent.ExportAsSourceFile(...) need to be setup/assigned as part of the mocked behavior?
Another way of stating it. Is the default return value for a method call, whose behavior has not been set, typically null?
@IvenBach I agree with Hosch RE: table/file & implementation details. That said, SQL Standard uses "rows" and "columns", never "fields" and or "records" and because of that, we had to write that way in our SQL book even though it is common, especially among Access developers to use "fields" and "records"
Putting aside the implementation, there's not really much difference and I do truthfully feel weird talking about "rows" and "columns" because they are something much more generic than "records" and "fields" in my mind.
But don't feel bad - even mathematicians like Mr. Date might snub his nose at either; he'd rather that we use the proper terms "tuple" and "heading" and "attribute"
6:47 PM
I'm fine with smoke-n-mirrors hand-wavey explanations. I no smrt enurf to undrstnd wut's aktuly hapnen.
To get started. Once I've understood an idea then I can begin correcting my comprehension towards reality.
FTR, there are very very few people who can fully understand a DB.
I think so many terms exist just to give all those pedants something to argue over.
Most DBs, especially commercial ones like SQL Server, have been heavily optimized.
Knowing I'm going to be venturing into DB stuff for reporting isn't particularly exciting for me.
Storage and querying both use exotic techniques to squeeze the last seconds out of it.
6:49 PM
@Hosch250 except when it hasn't been. (see: Mat's adventure with @table ;-) )
We're high enough level we just need to know SQL.
@this Even that has been optimized for its particular thing.
I mean, if it had the same goals as the #table, they wouldn't have duplicated it.
The point remains - SQL as an abstraction still does leak.
Just like C# leaks .NET stuff.
So you have to understand what it's abstracting over in order to deal with it intelligently.
and all web application leak HTTP.
No getting away from it.
Your epidermis encoding is showing.
6:56 PM
@this In fact, that's part of the topic of my latest blog post--IoC leading to leaking abstractions.
when it's published LMK.
Published this morning :)
oh, that link from morning. Thoguht it was about checkers, LOL
Yeah, I had to keep a blog while I wrote my checkers game for school.
I just repurposed it into a programming blog, and abandoned my old blog.
I should consider reviving my old blog and posting Linux stuff there.
user image
hadn't even heard of LISP before seeing that comic
7:05 PM
> dotnet/corefx#42768 fixes this, which is targeted for 3.1.2 milestone.
> We release updates at approx. 1-2 month cadence (.NET Core Roadmap]).
> Note that the last update (3.1.1) was released on Jan 14, 2020, and we hope to release this fix in the next update to .NET Core 3.1 (unless, of course, something unexpected results in a change of plans).
FWIW, a VB.NET guy posted a solution by referencing the mscorlib but IDK if we wanna that.
@Cyril Don't bash Country :(
@Cyril requires going to a speech therapist before you can do it.
@Cyril learned about LITHP way back in college. Even wrote a little of it, took the test, then promptly erased it from memory.
7:31 PM
Randall should cut back on the absinthe
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