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12:01 AM
[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] 5 opened issues. 2 closed issues. 16 issue comments.
[Zomis/minesweeper-server] 3 commits. 1 closed issue. 33 additions. 98 deletions.
[Minesweeper] Games Played: 65, Bombs Used: 46, Moves Performed: 8359, New Users: 14
12:51 AM
@Hosch250 Mentions imposter syndrome. Good sign.
@MathieuGuindon @this @jcrizk I guess from your conversations about UI automation. Just perhaps suggesting we could make a working model on response time overall at certain point of usage which gives us a benchmark. Once a framework comes along that gives us that UI automation ability our manual data can verify just those useful points achieved
1:44 AM
> Hello Rubberducks!
I am very excited about this project as I've just been put in charge of an overgrown and undocumented spaghetti monster Access program. I initially came across it because I am sorely in need of a version control system. I am most used to git but I'm open to whatever will help me track changes.
I have been looking through the issues in the repo looking for someone else who's had my problem of not knowing how to get started using the git features in Rubberduck and many answe
> Hi! A very good question. Because this is Access, you might want to consider looking at two commercial tools that helps with version control; [OASIS-SVN](https://dev2dev.de/index.php?lang=en) or [Ivercy](https://www.ivercy.com/). The reason I mention those is because they already have leveraged Access-specific capabilities for supporting version control and can handle document modules which is not even handled by VBIDE API alone.

Rubberduck does help with exporting and importing VBA object
> @bclothier thanks so much for your prompt reply. I have downloaded a trial version of OASIS-SVN but I am totally lost on how to start using it. Is there any chance you'd be able to give a little more guidance on what to do.. all the documentation appears to be in german
2 hours later…
4:03 AM
> I normally use Google Translate on those page which suffice to get an overview. That said, one aspect that usually stumbles up people is that with a VBA project the process is now two-step; you have to export your VBA project into the filesystem so that git can do something about it. Likewise, if you want to merge changes from git, you must pull the changes or switch branches or something like that, *then* import the files back into the VBA project.

For OASIS SVN specifically, you do need
4:48 AM
> The 3 highlighted features (featured highlights?) are now randomly selected. Aligns the ducky & buttons, adds download count (cached along with inspection docs).
[rubberduck-vba/RubberduckWeb] retailcoder pushed commit c9c537f1 to master: changed glowing ducky to yellow ducky; removed black bar and too-small-for-anything image at the top.
[rubberduck-vba/RubberduckWeb] retailcoder pushed commit 81ad3a39 to master: added Build/CacheStatus controller action
[rubberduck-vba/RubberduckWeb] retailcoder pushed commit ecfcc985 to master: fixed web.config (system.codedom must be empty on GoDaddy), added missing 'While' keyword, target 4.7
[rubberduck-vba/RubberduckWeb] retailcoder pushed commit 36b273f5 to master: updated home page layout & content - show download count
[rubberduck-vba/RubberduckWeb] retailcoder pushed commit c764188d to master: updated images
Merge pull request #65 from retailcoder/master

Home page mini-facelift
1 hour later…
6:12 AM
5 hours later…
11:16 AM
sooooo.... anyone else having issues of SSMS randomly deciding to crash multiple times in a row?
oh, even better - the first time it offered to restore all the open queries. This time? Not so much. >-(
2 hours later…
1:16 PM
Does anyone else find it frustrating to have a ticket failed because whoever wrote the requirements changed their minds, not because there's an issue with how I wrote it?
Isn't that the definition of life as an IT guy?
@FreeMan IT ≠ Developer but your point still stands.
Pretty close to true in the hardware world, too.
@FreeMan it's usually unequally more expensive in the harware world, though
1:47 PM
tru dat
2:12 PM
@FreeMan More or less. But if anyone looks at the tickets to see who gets the work done right the first time, it hits my stats.
They should create a new ticket for requirement changes.
they dont' let you reject a ticket or redirect it?
No, I can only fix things.
@Hosch250 didn't know you were getting scored. Can you at least add notes to explain extenuating circumstances?
at the very least, it'd be something you could peruse at review time to defend yourself.
2:38 PM
@FreeMan I'm not at the moment, by anyone other than myself.
But if anyone does...
And it was one of the things we've discussed potentially using as a performance indicator about a year ago...
Management was pushing for better performance tracking stats for the IT team.
2:57 PM
^ @this see, IT!
No, he meant the team of clowns
From the sounds of it, you may be right.
3:19 PM
Be Smart. Don't get 2 hours of sleep. Brain function severely drops as I'm experiencing right now.
~sigh. Why is git show --raw different than git show --format=raw?
because git needs a punch command?
i guess it would be git --punch
git --Hawaiianpunch?
more like git --supermanpunch
3:30 PM
folks... unix options are generally all lowercase
yeah, it is
git --supermanpunch
or alternatively:
git -s
git -ded lol
3:50 PM
man, im looking at this access "application"...
its terrible
so... yeah
Private Sub txtDiode1_Click()
' Declare variables
Dim ChannelNumber, mydata, StringVar As Variant
Dim diode As String

mydata = 0

' open a link to WinWedge
ChannelNumber = DDEInitiate("WinWedge", "Com1")
' get data from field(1)
DDEExecute ChannelNumber, "[SENDOUT('?',13)]"
DDETerminate ChannelNumber
ChannelNumber = DDEInitiate("WinWedge", "Com1")
mydata = DDERequest(ChannelNumber, "FIELD(1)")

' terminate the link
DDETerminate ChannelNumber

' make a positive number
mydata = Val(mydata) * -1
its in the form frmChipDataEntry
i want to burn it with fire
DDE? I guess they were playing 8 track in teh background when they wrote that
2 hours later…
5:38 PM
@this do you know why people overly concatenate like this:
Dim strWhere As String

strWhere = "[PartTested.TestDate] = " & "#" & txtTestDate & "#"
DoCmd.OpenReport "rpt_SingleRecord", acViewPreview, , strWhere
i look at it... and im just like... what the heck are they thinking...
because it hasn't occurred to them that they should at least write a function?
in fact, that could blow up.
what if the txtTestDate is Null?
the SQL would be then [...] = ##, which isn't legal
but frankly far too many samples out there won't tell user to at least wrap it in a function... they just do direct contatentation
(there's the whole other issue of using string but I'm not going to open that can of worm)
well to be fair, the control is locked, and has the current date set
but yeah, this particular db is essentially a best practices nightmare
i was nuking the call keyword left and right
changing off the ! notation crap where it was refering to "Me" but... in a roundabout way
using the forms collection
getting rid of pointless dlookups
wait, you're just omitting Me!?
why not just replace to Me.?
there is no good reason to use Me!, but you surely do want Me. prefixing your controls references.
5:47 PM
no im getting rid of forms!<formname>!(<controlname>)
oh ok.
i was like... what in the Eff
wondered because in the examplea bove you didn't have the Me.
again.... copy'n'pasta.
yeah i yanked it out of this hot mess of an "application"
to show how wtf it was lol
its like someone talking about themselves in the third person
but worse
This is going to lunch. This is going to eat a sandwich. This is going to enjoy eating a sandwich. :D
6:06 PM
having a name like This makes it all the worse
This disagrees. This thinks this is hilarious.
yay for ambiguous references
this is odd
this is case-sensitive
wait no, it is ambiguous lol... and hilarious
6:15 PM
sounds like a js framework
sorry, too much web lately
home page facelift turned out pretty well. I need to fix the navbar buttons though
@MathieuGuindon You did a good job there.
thanks =)
Saw the source code?
6:26 PM
sorry, no. the last few weeks has been crappy for me. :(
6:46 PM
@MathieuGuindon I'm going over it for accessibility issues now.
Should be pretty good since it's read-only.
Forms are much harder to do accessibility right on.
OK, #1 you have a bunch of URLs embedded on various sides of the 3 featured images.
That messes with navigation with keyboard.
I'll try to find it in the repo.
@Hosch250 I don't understand what that means
kb-navigation is usually based on tab-indices
<div class="col-md-4">
    <h2>Code Explorer</h2>
    <p>Organize your VBA/VB6 project like never before, using special annotation comments to customize a folder hierarchy.</p>
    <p class="text-center">
        <a href="/Navigation">
            </a></p><div class="feature-highlight"><a href="/Navigation">
                <img class="border-image" src="Content/Images/CodeExplorer.png" alt="Navigation tools menu">
            </a></div><a href="/Navigation">
    <p>Warning: Addictive.</p>
URLs grab tab focus, often unnecessarily.
Notice all those a tags.
They all point to the same URL, and the ones with just spaces aren't even visible.
That should be:
6:53 PM
the p.text-center can also go completlely. it's empty
<div class="col-md-4">
    <h2>Code Explorer</h2>
    <p>Organize your VBA/VB6 project like never before, using special annotation comments to customize a folder hierarchy.</p>
    <div class="feature-highlight">
        <a href="/Navigation">
            <img class="border-image" src="Content/Images/CodeExplorer.png" alt="Navigation tools menu">
    <p>Warning: Addictive.</p>
    <p><a class="btn btn-info" href="/Navigation">Learn more »</a></p>
@foreach (var highlight in Model.Highlights)
    <div class="col-md-4">
        <p class="text-center">
            <a href="@highlight.ActionLink">
                <div class="feature-highlight">
                    <img class="border-image" src="@highlight.ImageUrl" alt="@highlight.ImageAltText"/>
        <p><a class="btn btn-info" href="@highlight.ActionLink">Learn more »</a></p>
That may or may not be quite correct. Notepad is crap.
@MathieuGuindon okay, so ASP.NET MVC messes that up...
No, that's right.
There's something higher up on the page.
I've seen this happen before, with an unclosed tag.
Get me to go over the website sometime this weekend.
At least read it; I can't build it.
6:55 PM
you probably can now
also, assuming there was at least 1 green-release download today, we'll know tonight if the 24-hour cache invalidation works :)
> 21,409 total downloads
@MathieuGuindon It builds with 2019? That's cool.
oh, don't know about that. maybe.
build was broken until the inspections page pulled inspections from GitHub/release assets rather than Rubberduck.dll
that said I'm not sure why it wouldn't build with 2019
hm, download button links to the /releases page with all the prereleases
7:46 PM
I don't have the room on my 128 GB drive to install 2017 with all the other programs (Docker, K8s, VS 2019, VS Code, Mongo DB, SSMS, Office...) on my system.
I have a 1TB data drive, but it doesn't give me an option to install there.
I'd not settle for less than 7200.
eh, it's WD-Blue
I'll probably get a 1TB SSD.
And keep my 1TB HDD.
@Hosch250 good enough for cheap long-term storage
nto good enough for a system drive, I agree
@Vogel612 I have my 1TB 7200 for my D drive.
It's my C drive that isn't big enough.
The one that programs demand to be installed on.
They're letting us off early at 3PM today.
it's 3:57PM here
so you're off in 3 minutes?
They closed the office at 3PM for the long weekend.
So, yeah.
And I already am home--I forgot my phone at home, so I couldn't get into our systems because 2FA.
@Hosch250 IIRC I used a 64GB SSD for my server's OS drive - I'll come to regret it I'm sure
7:59 PM
So I had to come back home and get it.
And my boss said "just finish the day at home :)"
8:36 PM
How is it I can be busy all day so far and have nothing accomplished and no physical evidence of my busy state? :grumble grumble:
8:48 PM
better than getting nothing done all day with plenty of evidence of your idle state?
@IvenBach how about the distinct additional heat you generated from being busy rather than idle?
9:20 PM
That just dissipates.
oh WOW... somebody released a new game for gameboy. the original gameboy with the green pixels.
holy crap the hacks that are in there
9:45 PM
@MathieuGuindon They do 64GB SSDs? Why?
See - this is why I buy second-hand IT. Lenovo x230 i7, upped to 16GB ram, with a 512MB Samsung mSata SSD and a 2TB spinner in the bay. Total cost maybe $500. Buy an x280 at that spec and get a 50% quicker processor, quicker SSD but no secondary HDD, spend $2000...
Oh, and glued components you have no hope of repairing ;-(
10:25 PM
@Vogel612 skiwi'd for later reading.
And by skiwi'd I mean bookmarked.
Woot! Caching works!
> 21,428 total downloads
the only thing missing is that old skool visitor counter from 90s. :p
10:50 PM
no, that's too fancy. Think MySpace one
no, wait, I think it should be GeoCities
what's a my space?
is a geo city one of those new-fangled green things?
a Stone Age version of FaceBook
10:53 PM
and GeoCities is a prehistoric version
but they all have basically the same content, so it's OK.
heh, what's a face book? oh wait, you mean a photo album?
> Version
OS: Microsoft Windows NT 10.0.17763.0, x64
Host Product: Microsoft Office x64
Host Version: 16.0.11601.20204
Host Executable: MSACCESS.EXE

If the @ModuleDescription was already set at synchronized before then an edit was made changing the content of the description, is it by design that applying the "Fix all detected occurrences" will update the value of the @ModuleDescription to whatever the value of attribute VB_Description is?

If yes, would there be a way or an
I still remember the first time I heard about Facebook - it was written about in a college newspaper. The reporter who was female was complaining about how she was getting hit on by creeps at a bar, because they found her Facebook profile.
I thought back then, so don't use Facebook....
The sad thing is that she continued to write about creep things arising directly as consequence of her Facebook.
heh, couldn't find a generator for this, but:
@this I have a profile, just to reserve it. I have posted zero times.
10:57 PM
> Hm, the default fix for any inspection result is whichever quickfix is listed first. Would it make more sense to just flip the order of applicable fixes for these inspection results? Thinking it's more likely you edit the annotation than the attribute (right?)...
The only timelines I find useful are the ones on PRs (GitHub, Azure DevOps) - "I have contributed something, please critique". Not "I've eaten breakfast, please validate me"
too cynical?
ambiguous ;-)
What predated GeoCities? AngelFire is what my mind's want to say is the answer.
@IvenBach BBS
11:02 PM
@IvenBach stone tablets
in years to come, there will be professional internet archeologists...
Good thing the entire interweebs is backed up.
I'm old enough to remember when modems were kinda weird. Damn, I feel old.
Hey, this chat is perma-open, maybe we'll be someone's pHD in 2050 :-)
> Dissertation on the radical improvement of VBA code among non-coders in the late 2019's and early 2020's due tho the influence of Rubberduck.
11:06 PM
which they'll get everything wrong
no, more like...
> Examination of Early Duck Worshippers' Primitive and Animalistic Society
Mom: What's a MP3?!?
Napster has them, go ask him.
Hey, don't forget this is a secret conspiracy to overthrow the established world order by producing subversive add-ins for popular software. Oh wait, dammit, I hope no-one finds this in years to come. Damn!
@IvenBach now, that's a name I haven't heard in a while.
11:10 PM
Heh, MP3s at 4KiB's were a thing of wonder...
@IvenBach oh man, and limewire. fun times.
@mansellan what do you mean, "will be"?
@Vogel612 heh, good point
there are academics who do nothing else
@Vogel612 srsly? it's been like 1/4 century...
that's like digging up your back yard
I might be exaggerating a tiny bit, but I had an academic seminar about "origins and history of the web"
and if you count DARPANET, then it's been half a century
11:12 PM
@Vogel612 yeah i imagine they're starting to document it
which is firmly in the realm of history
pre-html was the dark ages of the net
consider that something like the reunification of Germany is history. Consider also that it happened about 1/4 century ago..
There was an actual thing around AOL CDs back then
very good point. I saw checkpoint charlie when the wall was still up.
@mansellan HTML actually just made everything messier
11:14 PM
@Vogel612 sure, but it opened it up to the masses.
the remixability of it did..
early HTML was human readable
heh, it still is... uh, kinda...
like... you could "view source" and boom use a bit of brain energy and experiment around and you can write your own webpages
11:15 PM
if you squint a bit
yet they decided that it was totally cool to go <br> all over the place. sigh
nowadays it's all generated...
@this you're forgetting &nbsp;-based table layouts
^ please don't remind me with that.
11:16 PM
and even then you can't trust the View Page source on a dynamic page, as well.
@this you mean back then?
no, nowadays
yea. today's web is a steaming hot mess
@Vogel612 that is horrid but at least there's nothing wrong with it syntactically, right? The <br> totally breaks the XML-ness of HTML.
@this yea, it's syntactically sound...
11:18 PM
@Vogel612 ^ forget about the page source. Is has nothing to do with the actual source
It's that I think the stuff like <br> contributed a lot to the poor state where we have to be loose in our input.... too loose.
@this &nbsp; is just an xml-entity that expands to the character code for a non-breaking space
@this if it were only br, it would be okay.
@mansellan tell that to the script kiddies scraping GMail inboxes in VBA...
because br is always self-closing.
@this HTML was never really *ML though right? To permissive by far.
11:19 PM
it's worse for <p>
Right. Had they stick to the standard more rigorously, the HTML wouldn't have to have so complex parser.
because <p><p></p></p> is not what you think it is
@mansellan well it is a Markup Language...
@MathieuGuindon Uh, we scrape at work... whistles
not gmail though
and WTH we use the word scrape. That kinds of retarded. Are you going to take out a ice scraper and scrape your monitor with it?
11:20 PM
@MathieuGuindon yeah but iiuc technically derived from SGML. But really, actually, not.
Waiting for the inevitable "how do I click the I am not a robot checkbox using VBA?" question
answer: UI automation!
calling it a markup language is somewhat wrong :/
at least in the modern sense of the word
sure XML is also a markup language
but you wouldn't try to compare XML to Markdown
W3C: let's rename HTML. and HTTP.
HTTP is not html-specific..
11:22 PM
no but it's still "hyper text"
wth is hyper text anyway
ohhh I got a link for you
...a hyper link
^^ Douglas Engelbart, the inventor of the mouse presenting a hypertext editor at a conference
@MathieuGuindon <deleted because it's AAF>
you're welcome!
hypertext originally meant something pretty close to what today is mostly done by pdfs
just so very much deeper ingrained in the OSes back then, because it had to be
11:25 PM
I like how the text on the introduction slide don't even align
A hyper link is one surrounded by <blink> tags.
@this It's to scrape all the public facing nasty into your data bin.
@Vogel612 1968... that's mind-blowing
what are you at?
cuz it's not only text editing that he does
5 minutes in
11:32 PM
They basically open a skype call later
and the way the presentation is blended is also really awesome. Most of that displaying is still done using analog techniques
and in 1990 we get:
Quite an improvement, yes?
it doesn't need a literal team of PhD and Grad students just so the demo doesn't fall apart :D
@Vogel612 meh, I prefer Word. That one doesn't have a ribbon.
> Well, for me, yes. :) I think it makes more sense that the reason for editing the annotation is to edit the attribute. :)
11:38 PM
seriously though, woah. 1968?
^ #Imagine
But can it run Crysis?
I wonder if he was ctrl-c and ctrl-v back then.
or did he had to use a command to do it instead
Windows really was the Betamax of the day. Amiga OS was almost a decade ahead in OS, and they blew it.
11:44 PM
> However, after 90 minutes, when it ended and the audience of senior London computing academics filed out, I heard several make comments such as "Interesting, but it will never catch on" and "What a waste of time." They had just seen the first ever Mouse, Hypertext, WP, video conferencing, and the Internet (Arpanet). I BELIEVED Doug Engelbart - they didn't! Here we are. years later, after the Xerox Star, Apple's Lisa and Mac and finally Windows.
(Uh, guess I'm not getting my MVP any time soon!)
feh. MVP don't have to kiss asses.
they're one because they're passionate about their line of work, basically.
pre-emptive multitasking in 1985. just saying....
> Why is his 45 year old pre-web-cam stream clearer than my 2013 Skype?
Changing the subject, does anyone object philosophically to moving to .Net Core (losing Vista), or is it just a case of waiting until it's stable enough for us?
11:50 PM
@mansellan as it stands, we're waiting for .NET Core 3 to be released, because we don't want to go for a prerelease to get support for WPF and WinForms
@Vogel612 agreed sorry, I meant after that
the only other roadblock woudl be teh requirement to upgrade to VS 2019
I personally like the idea (mostly because I probably could start working on RD on my linux machine)
@this is that a major problem?
@this VS2019 is currently broken, because Sunburst doesn't work there
11:51 PM
if VS 2019 is even slower than 2017 then... :( :(
It's my daily driver at work
and IIRC we don't need to go for VS2017 to use .NETCore3
but is it at least as performant as 2017?
Hmm, I might be mistaken but I read that at the moment .NC3 would only run on 2019
@this Hard to be objective there, my work machine has 16 cores and 32 Gig. Uh, it runs it fine for me ;-)
11:53 PM
@mansellan yea, that's not really the specs that we can expect of RD contributors -.-
I'm still running around with 8GB and 4 physical cores
@this iiuc you can persuade (the current preview of) core 3 to run in 2017
@mansellan 16 cores and 48GB RAM on the physical machine here, but the dev VM isn't allocated it all
@mansellan I would honestly be surprised if you couldn't
@Vogel612 dev VM looks pretty much like that
11:55 PM
yea, but it's everything I got :/
well, virtual cores anyway
Seriously though, it performs no worse than 2017 on that box. I should put it on my laptop (5 years old), I'd expect it to be fine.
AFAICT, they'd changed the start page for a start splash, compacted the title bar, moved the extensions (to howls of complaint), and... uh... other stuff? maybe?

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