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barbecue
barbecue
14:27
There seems to be quite a bit of ignorance in these comments of what minimum wage means in the US for restaurant servers. The minimum wage for workers in the US is $7.25. The minimum wage for tipped workers in the US is $2.13.
Also @littleadv, you're pretending to be campaigning for change by refusing to tip, but you're just being a cheapskate. The law does not require you to tip, but the law does recognize that tipping is the primary source of income for these workers. It's literally written into the statutes, and you're choosing not to pay. That doesn't make you a freedom fighter for worker justice, it makes you a cheap-ass.
 
4 hours later…
littleadv
littleadv
18:21
@barbecue interesting... Is there a law forbidding me from being a cheap-ass? Also, I'd like to know what statute you're referring to that makes tipping a primary source of income.
 
1 hour later…
littleadv
littleadv
19:27
@barbecue so I checked, and in fact not only are you wrong but it's actually the exact opposite. In California, it is illegal to consider tips as part of the employee compensation: "Employers are not permitted to use workers’ tips as credit toward their hourly wages, nor are they allowed to deduct money from employees’ wages because of the tips they earn."
 
3 hours later…
barbecue
barbecue
22:55
@littleadv not only am I not wrong, I'm also not confining myself to California. Since I specified "US" in my comment, common sense would suggest I was referring to US law, not California state law, but common sense would also suggest that tipping people whose income primarily depends on tips would be reasonable.
Since you want to be pedantic, here's a link to the US DOL page which outlines minimum wages. dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped
Note that the minimum wage specified for tipped employees is exactly the number I said it was. So nope, I'm not wrong. You're wrong for assuming that all employees live in California, which is obviously nonsense.
In the US, states are permitted to make laws which specify higher minimum wages than the Federal law requires, however they are not permitted to go lower. This is how most state laws work with respect to Federal laws. States which have not specifically chosen to make other minimum wage laws must comply with Federal law. All employers must comply with Federal law regardless of what state they are in.
Employers must also comply with the laws of the state they are in, but not those of states they are not in. So your California law does jack shit for a server in Alabama.
Of course, if you don't tip in a state where tipping is legally not permitted to be considered part of wages, that's different than in a state where legally you can pay someone $2 an hour to bus tables and sweep floors as long as they make enough in tips to cover the difference.
This really happens, it's true, and you disbelieving it doesn't make it not be true.
For further illumination, you can check out this handy chart, showing which states allow the most abusive wages for servers and to what extent.
https://www.minimum-wage.org/tipped
littleadv
littleadv
23:13
@barbecue you said that that's the law in the US, I've proven you wrong. You're pointing to the Federal law, but most servers (if not all) are not Federal employees, and State laws apply.

That said, I was quite explicitly saying that this depends on the will of the voters, and brought California (where I live) as an example that things don't have to be the way you describe.

Bottom line - if **you** are OK with employers paying $2.13/hr salary - then the problem is with **you**. I'm not OK with that, and I tend not to spend my money in States that allow this.

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