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12:55 AM
So someone is accusing me of trying to speak for an entire community
 
Ignore them
They are not worth your time
And just want to argue about something
 
I never said that I was trying to speak for the entirety of my community. I’ve always framed it as this is how I see things. It’s obvious that they’re twisting my words but it hurts to see it come from who claims to be apart of the same community.
 
If they claim that, then they should know better than to jump on you about this
My guess is they are trolling
But even if they aren't, they obviously grossly misread what you've been talking about
 
A very wise person once told me that said that when discussing things like this, they filtered people into one of three groups: "definitely opening to learning from me", "guaranteed will not agree with what I'm saying if not outright hostile", or "ambivalent and difficult". Depending on which group the person was in, they allocated a different amount of energy to dealing with that person.
I'd recommend not allocating any significant energy into any group besides the first, and only then if you have the energy to spare.
This person definitely sounds like they are in the 2nd or 3rd group.
 
Yeah
 
1:09 AM
Yeah, if somebody's treating you as a proxy in their "culture war" rather than a human, it's time to leave and focus on seeking out people who are interested in mutual support of folks' humanity.
I think this is kinda r🐘, but it's not an easy watch. CW online harassment, Nazis, mental trauma.
 
I'm trying to be respectful in my responses and I'm disengaging before things blow up
 
[looks up the post] ...Yeah, that's just "if I don't see it then it doesn't exist" with a side order of victim-blaming. Transparent bunk.
 
is it worth a flag
 
In this atmosphere, I'm not really able to say.
 
1:24 AM
@Gwideon you can point me to the comment if you want
However the worst thing that can happen is that a flag is rejected. Not a big deal unless you get piles of them rejected.
 
I would disengage. I also recommend anyone flag the way their conscience tells them. I would not advocate for or against.
 
@Rubiksmoose I'll drop you a link off-site.
 
Just because someone is a member of the community that you are apart of doesn't mean they get to tell you you can't speak up.
There are people out there that don't speak for me. That doesn't mean they are not allowed to speak for themselves.
 
it makes me sad that it seems there can never be a unified front among people.
and that people feel they need to dismiss and minimize someone elses perspective
 
1:32 AM
Yeah, the zero-sum game where people think nobody can succeed except with someone else failing, is pretty tragic and needs to get pushed back with model action wherever possible.
 
yeah and I'm trying to do that but I keep getting comments like that
and it makes it hard. It's hard for me to ignore them.
 
I stopped engaging because of the comments
And some people are trolling by claiming to be part of the community. Don't let it get you down
 
Making cogent arguments is valuable, but teaching by example means finding/making spaces and opportunities where we can model alternatives rather than just talking about them. Sometimes that means prying open room for it in an existing system, like the Stack Exchange, and sometimes it means making entirely new spaces. Depends on the context and resources each of us has access to.
 
It's hard to ignore the comments. To leave them unchallenged means they have the last word. It looks like they won the argument. It hurts to leave the damage unchallenged. I get it.
 
yeah. um I do ask have my responses to his answer and comments been pretty good
like um I haven't been disrespectful or anything
 
1:38 AM
No. I would stop defending yourself now though. You said what you needed to. They are just continuing to argue because it exhausts you.
 
okay
also it's very dismissive to say the pain that someone has felt doesn't matter because they belong to a minority. That's exactly the argument people have used to attack minority groups in the past. god this is so frustrating.
 
@Gwideon You matter
 
@Gwideon yes, you matter
Also they are a troll
 
I'm so tired of people making these big ignorant statements
 
A vampire who is trying deliberately to suck out your energy
 
1:45 AM
yeah I know
It's hard for me to stop. I feel like I have to fight
 
They don't deserve your energy
You do
 
You're not alone. None of us has to do all the work.
 
I feel like I have to show these people that I'm not just gonna lay down and take this, that no matter what they say or do they're never gonna make me shut up.
 
But you don't have to
They aren't going to stop until they can't get a reaction out of you anymore
 
One of the things Lindsay Ellis says in the lecture I linked above is, it's useful to flood the "discourse" with positivity. Instead of talking to or about the bad-faith arguments, find ways to create conversations about how excellent people are.
Which reminded me of something 'Abdu'l-Bahá said in a 1912 lecture in Paris:
> When a thought of war comes, oppose it by a stronger thought of peace. A thought of hatred must be destroyed by a more powerful thought of love.
 
1:50 AM
I hate ignoring it though but um yeah. It feels like I'm letting them win.
 
@Gwideon It's hard. No one here thinks it isn't
 
There are times and places and people for actively opposing toxic talking points. Public one-on-one arguments by the most vulnerable of us is usually not that. You can oppose that toxicity just as vehemently and probably more effectively by focusing your energy on living well and supporting positive actors.
 
And if you do have the strength to stand up, choose where and when you do it. Don't let them decide that for you.
 
Flag, downvote, and move on to find activities that can serve humanity by actively demonstrating better ways of being.
 
I guess so. Um I guess I keep saying to myself that if I can just make a more rational argument that they'll see my point but they'll never see my point. they never wanted to see my point so what's the point in trying.
 
1:56 AM
in RPG General Chat, Feb 22 '16 at 11:16, by BESW
> Not everything that a man knoweth can be disclosed, nor can everything that he can disclose be regarded as timely, nor can every timely utterance be considered as suited to the capacity of those who hear it. (Bahá’u’lláh)
 
In case you would like to be distracted by something more adorable: here is a monkey hugging a cat.
2
 
awww that's really freaking cute
 
@V2Blast brought a much needed smile to my face.
 
Ellis also says, "You cannot reason someone out of something they did not reason themselves into."
 
:D
 
1:59 AM
And if you need to, stay away from MSE for a while. Make sure self-care comes first. It's like the airplane oxygen mask. If you don't take care of yourself first you can't help anyone else.
 
true
 
Absolutely yes. I'm keeping pretty far away from anything Stack-related outside three chat rooms because I know I don't have the spoons to do anything except melt.
You're welcome to chill in my Discord channel where Stack drama is pretty much off-topic and it's always cool to ask for a topic change of any sort.
 
yeah I can feel myself running out of spoons
anyways
 
And the RPG General Chat has been declared a De-MSE-erized Zone for the foreseeable future, so you can just leave the Not A Bar and hang in General, too.
 
yeah
 
2:08 AM
You get to control your inputs.
You can even put adblock on your Stack message notification element.
 
I don't know if I want to completely disconnect
 
@BESW That's amazing!!!! I didn't know that!
 
I haven't done it myself, but somebody mentioned doing it last week and it sounded magical.
@Gwideon I get that, yeah. Unfortunately the Stack Exchange system hasn't offered any granular safety tools. H*ck, even putting someone on "ignore everywhere" in chat still leaves their starred posts visible.
 
yeah
 
@AGirlHasNoName You can use adblock/uBlock to block basically any page element
@BESW why am I not surprised
 
2:19 AM
I never explored adblock and its features
I just threw it on and moved on
 
I've ranted at length in the past about how the Stack Exchange doesn't implement any features that treat its users as humans with individual needs and concerns, unless/until there's so much clamor that it'd create more friction not to. Their safety tools are a classic example.
 
 
1 hour later…
3:30 AM
Hey
Um I took a break and played some splatoon with a friend so yeah I’m feeling a bit less wound up I guess
 
Relaxing with friends is good! I'm gonna have tea with a friend this afternoon.
 
That sounds nice
I’m still a bit frustrated but um it’s been tempered a bit by laughter. Um it also looks like I got the last word in with that user so um my mind can now rest it’s need to fight stuff
Um yeah I’ll be quiet now
 
@BESW you didn't inform me of it :p
 
3:53 AM
@trogdor He said "friend". [sick burn]
 
Nice, Splatoon sounds fun. I've played maybe once I think?
@Rubiksmoose oof
dang, was gonna point out your misquote before you fixed it
:P
 
bullet dodged :)
 
@Rubiksmoose ooooh I thought he said "fiend" my bad
XD
 
hahaha
 
 
9 hours later…
1:23 PM
heya
 
1:42 PM
welp I'm mad
 
1:55 PM
@Gwideon what's up?
 
I've disengaged from the comments but um the guy from last night just wrote a new comment and well it's.... very dismissive
 
@Gwideon That doesn't sound like you've disengaged.
 
I wrote a comment letting them know I'm not continuing the conversation
 
Unfortunately, that's still engaging.
 
yeah
 
1:59 PM
Dealing with trolls is a lot like dealing with children. Any interaction is engagement. If you need to disengage, then you can't interact at all.
 
The only way to win is not to play
 
Took me a long time to figure that out as a parent.
And i'm sure that strategy will start to fail soon :P
 
yeah I guess
 
@NautArch please let me know what age that falls apart
 
@goodguy5 Ha! So far at 7 it's still working.
every kid is different, though
 
2:00 PM
phew, at least 7 more years
 
I wouldn't recommend that strategy yet...
but when it's time to sleep train, then it starts.
I'd also heavily recommend removing pacifiers on their 1st birthday.
old enough they don't really need them, but too young to vocalize their dislike of it :P
 
We've brushed the surface of sleep training. and 1 year is our planned pacifier max anyway
We think we like:
put them down awake, but tired. (good night love you etc) Walk away. allow to cry for 5 minutes. check. repeat
 
2:17 PM
sorry
i should go
 
@Gwideon why?
@goodguy5 yeah, the check system works, but when it's time to go full sleep training, then we went with just let them figure it out. Super hard to not go in. I did it when my wife was away.
 
We're trying to consolidate all of his wake-up feeds later and later. I think it's mostly working.

Though, my mom is watching him overnight Sunday for a wedding..... so I'm sure he'll be spoiled rotten by monday.
 
I'm just causing trouble
 
@Gwideon Not here you're not!
hmm, that looks like awful grammar. But you're not causing trouble here :)
 
2:36 PM
i guess I'm kinda just not sure if i'm bothering anyone or if I'm not but um if you're fine with me then I guess I should stay.
 
@Gwideon I'll definitely say if i'm being bothered - and I'm not!
 
okay
 
2:57 PM
@Gwideon One thing I did with my friends to deal with Imposter Syndrome issues that might help: if there ever comes a time where you're actually a problem (and so far, just to be perfectly clear, you've never been), we will tell you to your face. There's not going to be any kind of "well, we weren't saying anything because we weren't trying to be confrontational". We will talk to you if there's a problem.
@Gwideon You've been very welcome in this chat, and if that changes, we will let you know. So if we haven't said anything, it's because you've continued to be welcome.
2
↑ As someone who has dealt with issues like that before, having someone say basically that to me helped a lot. Not sure if it'll help for you.
 
yeah you're fine
 
Okay. um thank you
 
3:31 PM
@Gwideon what's something good about yourself you can say today?
 
i'm not sure
 
by my clock, today has over 12 hours left. that leaves you plenty of time to come up with something ^_^
 
okay
 
 
2 hours later…
6:05 PM
I try to be compassionate and empathetic
@goodguy5 um there’s my one good thing
 
bam. good job you
Just do that every day.
 
Okay
 
6:27 PM
My only concern is that the people who need to hear it most probably have too much wiggle-room to avoid actually internalizing the advice. Like, "both sides" aren't equally culpable in the fights you've been in on this stack: pretty clearly, it's been mostly people being unreasonable/not listening towards you, whereas you've been trying to respect their arguments and be kind.

But a lot of the people responding to you are not operating under the mindset that they're being rude/unreasonable/whatever, but instead under the mindset of "well, this is just how people argue on the internet, what
 
6:42 PM
@Xirema that's true. most people see themselves as the hero of their story which means they don't often truly allow self reflection
 
@Gwideon I like it. Have a plus.
 
okay
 

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