Discussion between Mari-LouA and ColleenV

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15:09

ColleenV has added Mari-Lou A to the list of this room's owners.

ColleenV

room topic changed to Discussion between Mari-LouA and ColleenV: Imported from a comment discussion on ell.stackexchange.com/questions (Not really just making the chat room look uninteresting to passersby) (no tags)

Hey I saw you were suspended on Meta.se -- I was going to try to convince you to run for mod on ELL. What happened?

(if you don't mind me asking. You can obviously tell me it's none of my business)

Mari-Lou A

Ha ha ha! me mod! :))))))))

ColleenV

I think you would be a good mod on ELL. You know a lot about teaching English and could right some of the wrongs when it comes to questions getting closed.

Mari-Lou A

Yes, suspended. Look at my profile page, the moderator letter is included and tell me if I'm not right in saying that Meta is sick.

You know....just maybe, just maybe I might have considered the "job" but I've been suspended too many times on Meta.SE

A year has to pass before any suspended user can nominate themself as a moderator.

ColleenV

wtf, I would escalate that to the CMs

Mari-Lou A

15:20

I did that the last time

ColleenV

Because "honest" can mean "sincere" not just "the absence of lying"

Mari-Lou A

It was Tinkeringbell's friend/ally who reviewed my last complaint.

And supported the moderator's decision to suspend me. Again.

Catija

ColleenV

I'd still escalate. Make them go through the process and document it.

Mari-Lou A

@ColleenV Oh yeah, and just get another letter by catija telling me what a negative person I am. She didn't use those words but youknow, near enough.

ColleenV

Some people are just hypersensitive to strong language

Nowhere in the TOS is there a requirement to "not be negative"

Sorry if participating on Meta is a burden on them, but jesus, grow up.

Mari-Lou A

15:24

@ColleenV if strong language had been used, I'd agree. Never in a million years would I think she'd get so defensive.

ColleenV

Well, strong opinions I guess.

Mari-Lou A

I might as well post you my reply. I'll be suspended on ELL and EL&U soon :)

"An honest answer would have admitted that the current status is not ideal, and perhaps it was time to review the situation. Or perhaps stating that the company is aware, and things have to get really really bad before considering closing a site. I expected that type of answer. P.S not my DV" //

I get suspended for that comment. Which just goes to show the atmosphere that is currently present. Discussion is forbidden. Disagreement with a moderator is not tolerated. No dialogue or any attempt to see the other person's POV. Can adults not reach a compromise? No, the easier solution and optio…

ColleenV

I'm trying to figure out when having a thick skin ceased to be a virtue

I think everyone in the world has been psychologically damaged by the pandemic lockdowns/masks/etc.

This isn't the only instance I've encountered of people being unable to interact with each other without it getting crazy

There must be stuff going down behind the scenes and they're worried about another flare up on Meta

The privacy policy changes didn't go over well

Mari-Lou A

All my comments deleted. And Tinkeringbell's comment suggesting I was arguing with her. No. Talking. Discussing. Then my last comment which broke her back.

ColleenV

Oh well, snailboat is gone from SE, JR is barely on ELL any longer. I may have to find some place else to spend my time

Mari-Lou A

15:30

@ColleenV perhaps. I think there is definitely something wrong. A lot of CM and staff members have left the company recently. I do like a bit of gossip :)

@ColleenV piccina, noooo. Why don't you ask to be reinstated as a mod on ELL?

ColleenV

Probably my only regret of resigning as mod is not seeing what's going on behind closed doors

Oh no, I can't be a mod again. It was damaging my health. I don't fit in with most of those people

Mari-Lou A

I will vote for you. I will campaign on your behalf. I will make pins, and flags, and banners, and leaflets, and get you interviews..

ColleenV

:) I'm sure I could just ask and be reinstated. I left on good terms

I just can't deal with arguing with people who aren't rational about things

I've contributed what I could and I think maybe ELL has moved beyond my style of moderation

The only thing constant is change :)

Mari-Lou A

"It was damaging my health. I don't fit in with most of those people" Oh, I had no idea. You seem very resilient. And very smart too. I mean, I didn't always agree with you deleting so many comments, but that was my only criticism. You were good for the site, and you worked well with J.R.

ColleenV

Yeah and I'm really sad that snailboat's account was deleted

I felt like we worked well together

Eddie and I have butted heads before, so I don't know if me coming back to the mod team would be helpful. He's doing a good job and I might just disrupt that

Mari-Lou A

15:35

@ColleenV Yes. That silent deletion across the entire network. I hope she's OK.

ColleenV

Me too I asked JR, but he doesn't know anything more than we do

Mari-Lou A

Eddie has improved considerably since he was appointed. I'd like him to be a bit more present on meta though.

ColleenV

Well, I think he has a lot going on in other parts of his life right now, and the other mods aren't around as much anymore

ELL used to have enough active mods to buffer when any one of us got busy

Even Malik is complete gone now

Mari-Lou A

"He's doing a good job and I might just disrupt that". No, I don't think so. Sometimes two strong personalities who can listen to each other is a bonus. Once a person builds their confidence, and feels they know what they are doing they can relax, and listen. And it's good if they can challenge or question the status quo if they feel it needs to be modified. Tweaked. There has to be a moment when an exception to the rule is the right thing to do.

ColleenV

No, he really really offended me, and one of my flaws is not being able to let go of grudges. I can wish him well and not be a jerk to him, but I can't work with him.

It's probably an age difference thing too. It doesn't help that I'm an old lady :)

Mari-Lou A

15:43

@ColleenV yes, Malik's been gone for quite a while. I think his enthusiasm for the language was his best asset. Although his answers on ELL were not always idiomatic, but then again being an Indian English speaker he knew the culture and why users asked the Qs they did.

It was a good team

ColleenV

Yeah, I thought his insight into InE was a good thing to have on the mod team, given how many people in our community hail from that part of the world

Mari-Lou A

@ColleenV I see! That happened behind closed doors or in the meta arena?

ColleenV

In ELL chat

We were discussing people posting questions that included porn

and, you know me, I believe it doesn't matter what the source of the question was, we shouldn't be squeamish about educating people

but when it's gratuitous I think it's unwelcoming

Mari-Lou A

and he thought those types of questions should be prohibited??

ColleenV

No, he told me I wasn't allowed to have an opinion "as a women" because some women surveyed like porn

I said "As a woman, (something about gratuitous porn on ELL being unwelcoming)

Mari-Lou A

15:46

"but when it's gratuitous I think it's unwelcoming" I'm with you, girl. Not. Allowed. To. Have. An. Opinion.....

I would have either gone ballistic or tried to convince him otherwise.

ColleenV

And if you really want to piss me off, tell me my well-reasoned opinion is "wrong" because a few stupid girls said they like porn in a survey

I went ballistic

and said something he rightfully chat banned me for

and never went back to chat again lol

But I purposefully said "fuck you" because I wanted him to be stunned and feel how mad I was

I also escalated that to CMs

Mari-Lou A

"I went ballistic" It has to be one or the other. Men's egos. Tough one. Then we, as women, we must always be accomodating. Or at least be aware of hurting their manhood. Then if we mix in cultural differences neither side understands the other

ColleenV

Because there was a power differential there, and he seemed to have forgotten that in ELL chat he has a diamond on and is held to a higher standard

And then of course the other boys in chat were all "the more erotica the better"

he was trying to argue that there was no gender difference when it comes to porn, and I just couldn't even fathom how someone could believe that

Mari-Lou A

Chuckle... at the time it must have been infuriating. But you have to see the funny side

ColleenV

Yeah, I'm over it lol

but I had a lot of buttons pushed... some young man telling me I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to how damaging porn is when it's dragged into conversations about other topics as if it's a perfectly valid thing to talk about in mixed company with perfect strangers

Mari-Lou A

15:53

Would make a great sketch, or standup routine. So much to be said, inferred. That's interesting. Go on

ask to be rienstated

ELL is quieter now

ColleenV

No, I don't want to do it. I can't do it and just ignore the bigger picture and what is going on with the rest of the network

And that's what really sucks the life out of me

Mari-Lou A

There's much less tension on ELL since a certain dogmatic user deleted their account. Ra**y something or other.

ColleenV

I can't even watch the news any more. I've given up all social media except for SE

Oh yeah

Rathony

Mr. Rules

Mari-Lou A

@ColleenV I stopped watch Italian news in 2010 :) I think it coincided when Berlusconi was elected for the 3rd time. I gave up then.

ColleenV

It's just not worth it

I try to stick to things I have some chance of changing. Local events where I can show up in person and talk to people

Mari-Lou A

15:56

No, it's not worth it. Let's tell them that over at Meta.SE though :)

ColleenV

I can't believe your suspension is for a month over that comment

People are just so frazzled

Mari-Lou A

tell me in all honesty if you find my comments hurtful or against the CoC. Leem see if I can upload the screenshot

ColleenV

Mari-Lou A

luckily the page was open when I got suspended.

wonderful poster!

ColleenV

You have to use the full desktop chat, not the mobile chat to upload

Mari-Lou A

16:00

and...

I get suspended for a month. For that.

ColleenV

Your suspension was unreasonable in my opinion.

The mods on Meta are way too comfortable allowing their personal animus to spill over into moderator action in my opinion

this is what happens with all people appointed to power instead of elected

they forget that they were given the power to serve, not to enforce their will

See, I wouldn't be saying half of this if I still had a diamond

Mari-Lou A

but can you see why the moderator got annoyed? I mean really annoyed that they had to delete all the history. Let me think.. 1984.

ColleenV

but now that I'm just a regular schmuck, I can let my hair down

I think it had little to do with that specific conversation

Mari-Lou A

I know love, I would have understood your silence as a mod as being in full agreement with me :)

ColleenV

I think they are dealing with other stuff and they're worn out and just don't want to deal with you

Mari-Lou A

16:05

hahahahahahaha! Me!

ColleenV

So they're giving themselves a break by suspending you

Mari-Lou A

Oh dear. How sad.

ColleenV

Yeah, if you don't want to be mad, feel sorry for how stressful their life must be right now for them to behave this way :)

Mari-Lou A

I need a break... otherwise a puddle will appear.

ColleenV

I've got to run, but I really enjoyed talking with you. I'll check back later if there's any new gossip :)

Mari-Lou A

16:08

.....so much better now. Yes. I have errands to do as well.

will check back soon.

Transcript for

♦ Discussion between Mari-LouA and Coll…