The Back Room: Live Tabletop Games

12:22 AM

:7068 They certainly have emotions, and thus they can fall in love. And because the whole backstory thing is ... handwavy... they can procreate, otherwise things break horribly.

:7094 New backgrounds should not contradict any established facts, but they can certainly "reinterpret"

Eric Weilnau

:7177 what is your reaction to my additions to Naturae's background?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

:7172 Whee :)

:7179 Ummmm, I'm awfully close to raising an "Are You Sure" dialogue

I would if one player had created it, because it means they want to be chaotic stupid

Eric Weilnau

:7078 I agree that this has been the most enjoyable way to make characters that I have ever participated in

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

::Grin:: I'm glad you both like it.

Eric Weilnau

:7182 That was not my intention. I see it as more of desperately trying to maintain control which he is now achieving through his faith

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

12:26 AM

I basically took a char gen method from Pax Draconis and smushed it about with Microscope

:7185 Hrmm... okay, that I'm OK with

And that's why I said I was on the edge

cause if one person had done it, it just sounds like a pre-hoc "Oh, well, I'm insane, I kill the king"

Eric Weilnau

:7188 i have been trying to balance the two background options out to provide internal conflict for the character without pushing for blatant conflict with the party

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

:7190 ::nod:: Works

I'm quite interested to note how the backgrounds have moved to a much more... RP heavy demand

Everyone has provided some awesome hooks for their characters

Eric Weilnau

:7192 which I see as a natural output of this method of character creation

though it may be more of a product of the players tendencies

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

::nod::

Totally not opposed to it.

Hrmmm, I think I'm going to try "preferential voting" for character choosing.

Phase 5 is up.

Should be quite easy.

Iszi

1:16 AM

I'm thinking after we've been assigned our characters, we need to move the character creation process to a different document. This one's gotten way too long.

The particular issue I'm starting to have with this one, is the fact I have to jump all over the document in order to read through the relevant details of a single character. Whatever we do, further character creation documents need to be sectioned per character. Assignment updates can be put at the top of the documents.

C. Ross

:7210 Or something to that effect. I agree with the general point. A lot of scrolling

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

1:32 AM

Yes.

Sohum

1:47 AM

ah, for the days of wave

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

yes

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

2:19 AM

Point of order, everyone, do you have access to wave?

Cause I kinda want to do the mechanical bits on wave...

Iszi

Point of order: When was the last time everyone was online at once?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

never.

Iszi

And isn't Wave meant for live collaboration?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

Nope.

It's a really nice... mixture... having used it for quite a lot of gaming, it's perfect for talking about the mechanical bits

Iszi

Hm.

Well, wouldn't our Google accounts get us to it?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

2:24 AM

Yup.

Iszi

Then answer to your question is yes.

It's more a matter of familiarity than access.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

hrmmm...

Iszi

3:12 AM

@BrianBallsunStanton I'm going to include Player Characters and some condensed information about their backgrounds in the Character Roster.

Fun part's going to be piecing everything together from the current doc.

Bah, if my desk wasn't so cluttered, that spare monitor would be useful...

...or, how about - yes, of course!

Just gotta hook up the HDMI cable, and boom! 42-inch secondary monitor!

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

well... done

Iszi

Been awhile since I've used this, but a 15' spare HDMI cable is handy sometimes, if your laptop supports it.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

3:33 AM

wave.google.com/wave/waveref/googlewave.com/w+ugXoo3OVA

I really hope the essentials CB elements drop before I have to make the thief.

doing it by hand is so... annoying.

Sohum

otoh, the thief is easy

Iszi

Why not just make it a standard Thief, then?

Sohum

standard Rogue, you mean?

Iszi

Hm. For some reason, thought we had a Thief. Rogue, then.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

I wanted to try thief out, explicitly

worth the annoying.

I want to see how it runs.

Iszi

3:37 AM

Can you make sure I have appropriate permissions to the wave? My vote doesn't seem to be getting cast.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

mind you, I'd love to have a party with a thief and a rogue

Sohum

yea, but thieves don't really need a build

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

right

iszi... hrmmm

try replying with a message...

it says you're "invited" rather than an active user

try it now

Iszi

Resend invite?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

hrmm

done?

Sohum

3:40 AM

inviting via email != signing up via email maybe?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

what happens when you go to wave.google.com

damnit

I think adding public borked it

Iszi

Hang on...

k... I see no invites.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

right

go to wave.google.com

what do you see?

Iszi

I'm at the Start a new wave screen.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

hrmmm

what does your inbox look like?

Iszi

3:45 AM

Just standard-issue first-timer stuff.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

on wave

okay

create a new wave and invite me

and there you are

odd

Iszi

So...

?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

check inbox :)

or click link again

is working?

Iszi

What? Looks good to me now I think.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

cool

Iszi

3:51 AM

Fer cryin' out loud, why won't my Wave profile pic update?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

oh, /that/ problem

it's powered off your google profile picture

Iszi

But... I changed the pic in Wave.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

yes. Wave is... beta

and being discontinued.

Sohum

yea, Brian, it's weird now

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

So it's very ideosyncratic

Sohum

3:52 AM

you can change it in wave, and that's supposed to work

Iszi

Yeah, thought it wss dying.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

so yeah, will be using this because it's the right tool for the job

Sohum

I don't think it was

it just wasn't as alive as el goog wanted it to be

so they pulled the plug

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

I hope hope hope that someone will take it over

cause it's a great tool for a couple of very specific tasks

Sohum

I hope hope hope they won't kill wave for hosted domains

Iszi

3:54 AM

...and I'm guessing there's no comparable free alternative?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

hahaha

no. It's actually innovative

greywulf.net/2010/10/…

Iszi

I'm gonna go back to piecing the character info together.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

fun

Iszi

Step 1: Aggregate all existing character background information into a new document with everything grouped by character.

Step 2: Based on existing data, summarize the character in the Character Roster.

Iszi

4:28 AM

@BrianBallsunStanton - Could you elaborate on this part of Serai's background?

She lost her husband to conflict, then followed him, first as a mercenary, then as a shardhunter. She’s survived till now.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

Um...

explain nature of query

Iszi

Don't make me write a 5-page e-mail to you, too. ;-)

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

Basically, are you asking for specific details, or just wanting me to write?

Iszi

Need to better understand the meaning of, or story behind, "lost her husband to conflict, then followed him".

Sohum

I believe I speak for brian when I say:

ESTABLISH IT!

Iszi

4:30 AM

Also, what particularly do you mean by saying "she's survived until now.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

ever read Pterry's monsterous regiment?

Iszi

Negative.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

and yes, Sohum speaks for me.

in this, at least

Iszi

I prefer to give the original author a chance to clarify themselves, first.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

Survived is "made a career out of being a soldier"

lost husband he was solider first, she wasn't. He dropped off the map at some point. She enlisted to find him.

Iszi

4:32 AM

Did she find him, or was she always one step behind? If the former, what was his reaction?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

I dunno :)

I'm going to leave that to the primary player to determine

because that significantly impacts the character

Iszi

Ok. I'll try to leave those points ambiguous.

What about the enlistment/survival issue? Is this to imply she had no prior experience or inclination toward combat?

And was apparently a quick learner?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

Again, a function of primary player decision.

it significantly determines motivation

Sohum

holy carp how is it so dark at 3:36 pm

Iszi

Hm... k. Can probably work with that, I guess. Just trying to come up with a short narrative for all the PCs, since most of the backgrounds have been established.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

4:37 AM

@Sohum Rain

Cthulhu.

Iszi

(By short, I mean one to two paragraphs that roughly encompass the given backgrounds)

Sohum

I pick Cthulhu

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

Good afternoon, @EricWeilnau :)

Iszi

@EricWeilnau Howdy

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

the google doc is waiting for your input :)

Sohum

4:39 AM

FEED IT

it desires your flesh

I mean thoughts

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

no, you were right the first time

thoughts.... made flesh! IA IA CTHULHU FTAGN!

er, did I say that out loud?

Eric Weilnau

hey all

are we still going to have one person create all of the characters?

Iszi

4:55 AM

@EricWeilnau Not by my understanding.

Right now, the verdict seems to lean to each player being given primary responsibility over one character.

Eric Weilnau

not everyone has the necessary source books or a DDI subscription

Iszi

Yeah... I seem to recall someone mentioning that early on...

Eric Weilnau

i only have PHB1 which would limit me to being able to create Therin or Zankul

Sohum

Iszi's kindly volunteered to create chars for anyone

and so would I

Iszi

Whoah, I meant build DND4Es, not characters.

There's a difference.

Sohum

4:57 AM

uh, yes

that's what I meant as well

sorry

Iszi

Give me specifications for a character, I'll plug them into the CB and have a file and sheet made to post.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

That is what the "maybe" answer is for

Sohum

but it's the DDI subscription bit that's annoying

Eric Weilnau

the original pitch was that after getting a primary character the player would provide general direction and "theme", then someone who enjoys the mechanics would create all the characters

Sohum

There is an option to "state rough guidlines and have a mostly-complete character presented to you"

Iszi

4:59 AM

How many of us do have D&DI?

Sohum

you and Brian, I think

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

and as I /like/ making characters

::grin::

but there are a number of options... and I'm slightly tempted to have a group wrangle over everything

Iszi

I was just figuring, if there were at least three we could pair off and assist those without.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

hrmmm

actually, I'm far more in favour of the group wrangle idea. I believe it's essential for everyone to grok what everyone else can do.

cool

Iszi

Yeah, but I really feel like the only way that can truly work is with live sessions.

Otherwise, we'll spend forever going back and forth to build 7 characters.

RMorrisey

5:02 AM

hey, guys

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

heya, mate.

Sohum

hey

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

Iszi, parallel, not serial

Iszi

@RMorrisey Howdy.

Sohum

btw, @RMorrisey , do you have DDI?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

5:02 AM

I'll probablystart with a flavour transition period of "describe moments of awesome"

Iszi

@BrianBallsunStanton Even more confusion, methinks.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

:7540 yup, but that's what we are here to iron out. avoiding confusion means that we're not doing a solid playtesting job

RMorrisey

@Sohum no, I only have the trial version of CB

Sohum

right

RMorrisey

catching up on chat

Sohum

5:04 AM

so I'm pretty sure Kedearian doesn't either

which makes us 2-4

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

:7546 hrmmm, which actually allows for a really nice control group :)

cool

Iszi

He doesn't have D&DI, but I'm sure he'll find other means of simple character construction.

(knowing him...)

Sohum

that thing brian linked the other day

the javascript

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

naah, we'll do group mechanical discussion

Sohum

that was horrendously extensive

Iszi

5:05 AM

So is the CB

But much friendlier.

Sohum

true.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

I do hope no-one votes no on the wave thing

doing this with blips will be soooo much gorram easier

RMorrisey

woo! the dude filled in squeaky's other 2 stories. reading up =)

Iszi

I love that we're playtesting and beta testing a dead project at the same time.

But, if it works...

Sohum

ha. ha. ha. ha.

you should've seen the other g̶u̶y̶ game!

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

5:09 AM

:7561 alpha-techno-necromancy

Eric Weilnau

i liked your idea of the group brainstorming strategies and power combinations for creating the characters

RMorrisey

Why is it a dead project?

Sohum

El goog killed it.

They've said they'll keep it up "at least until the end of the year"

RMorrisey

wave?

they're not killing docs, are they?

Eric Weilnau

from @BrianBallsunStanton's shorter answer on the question that started this experiment

Iszi

5:10 AM

Further reason not to lean too much on it. We should find an alternative soon, if we want to keep the group going.

Eric Weilnau

:7571 not yet

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

:7570 oh no, docs is consdiered to be very successful

RMorrisey

that's good

Eric Weilnau

:7571 google did buy another company solely to get the collaborative editing tech

RMorrisey

as long as they make me a car with autopilot, I will forgive them for anything they do

Sohum

5:14 AM

they're planning on rolling the innovations of wave into docs etc. eventually

but from what I've heard

Wave was handled like a completely separate group

RMorrisey

they already have somewhat

Sohum

they had to show something in a period of time, or bust

RMorrisey

nod

Sohum

and the Wave people ... were not marketers

hence lack of interest

hence bust

RMorrisey

I thought Wave was fantastic, but it was such a niche thing, simply because they couldn't put together a "killer" app for it that would draw people in, and I think only tech geeks ever heard about it

it looks like I have "Squeaky" unless someone else puts his name up first? do I start writing his backstory or wait until everyone fills in their selection?

I probably won't get to do it until tomorrow night at least, anyway

Sohum

5:18 AM

@BrianBallsunStanton I haven't been able to find any theory on preferential selection, as opposed to voting. I have the strongest feeling I've not been looking at the right places.

Iszi

I thought we were done with most of the background stuff. I've already started writing summaries based on what's already written, for another document.

RMorrisey

ok

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

:7591 Is OK, I have methodology

Iszi

@Sohum I would think it could be rather simple.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

:7589 wait until I describe who gets what

RMorrisey

5:19 AM

k

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

hrmmm

interesting how no one wants to /touch/ the shardmind

Iszi

Crap... I'm going to end up with him aren't I?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

um...

No further information is available here

Sohum

@Iszi you'd also think so about voting, wouldn't you? I don't trust my instincts on this sort of thing

Iszi

I'm a fan of the Telekinetic Shardmind Class/Race combo, but sure of this particular one's backstory...

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

5:21 AM

as we still have one person out

Iszi

(not sure)

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

well, as a note, everyone gets line-item veto power over their character's

Sohum

@Iszi oh? did I do something?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

... everything, really

RMorrisey

@BrianBallsunStanton For me, it's a number of factors. My version of CB doesn't support him. The TK powers didn't seem that interesting. I don't have a very strong impression of what the race is like... etc

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

5:22 AM

:nod:: Oh, isn't a problem per se

Sohum

^RMorrisey

Iszi

@Sohum I probably just need to re-read it. More clarity will come when I try to summarize, I'm sure.

Sohum

those are pretty much it for me

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

We'll see how things work, and I may recommend that someone shift class to controller if it fits

Iszi

Another reason I put him at #3 on my list is because I play that combo most of the time already. Wanted to get some other exposure.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

5:22 AM

controller is the most "optional" of the domains...

::nod::

iszi, if you kick ked hard enough, when I come back from a very late lunch, I'll divvy up people

Iszi

If no one else wants him, I can take him. Wouldn't have put him on my list if I couldn't - just not my first choice.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

::nod::

good to know that you're using the list correctly

:)

and now... food

Iszi

Tossed him an IM, but not sure if he's up. It's 0124 over here.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

::nod::

oh, @RMorrisey check wave

RMorrisey

URL?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

5:25 AM

wave.google.com/wave/waveref/googlewave.com/w+ugXoo3OVA

RMorrisey

oh hey, you sent me a thing already

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

for that matter, @EricWeilnau you too :)

Iszi

@BrianBallsunStanton Will we have a repository somewhere for DND4E files? Can you do that with Docs?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

yup

iplay4e

we'll have a campaign :)

bbiab

Iszi

Oh, right.

Eric Weilnau

5:28 AM

night all

Sohum

'ta

RMorrisey

night

@BrianBallsunStanton I put in my 2c on the Wave. Going to take off for tonight. Later guys

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

6:26 AM

huh, funky. The dual-leader support is kinda awesome or horrible depending on just... how things work out

Iszi

I think we have about two of everything, don't we?

Except Controller of course.

And, this would all depend upon who ends up with what after character selection is finished.

Sohum

marks override each other, apparently

'zat what you mean, Brian?

Iszi

Yeah, they do.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

more, bard and warlord love granting MBAs

if the party is built for it, it's insane. if it's not, it's... kinda meh

Sohum

MBAs?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

6:28 AM

melee basic attacks

Sohum

oh, melee basic

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

also, I've figured out the rough order, especially if ked chooses someone who hasn't been touched

Gut says he won't though

which makes things annoyingly complex

Sohum

knew it was going to be complex :P

Iszi

When in doubt, roll-off!

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

nope

no need to, I've got an optimization mechanism

Sohum

6:30 AM

you've got an Optimisation Mechanism?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

right now only [redacted] getting their second choice.

Of course I do.

and I'm quite pleased with how neatly everything's fallen into place unless someone goes and monkeys with their choies

Sohum

what am I thinking. Of course you do.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

how did you get 2 tied for 4th btw?

and did you mean it?

Sohum

uh

no

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

cause it's impressive :)

and technically meaningful for me

holy... 7k words

Sohum

6:32 AM

um. I don't see two tied for me?

I see Rihkim as 4 and Zankul as 5

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

1,2,4,4,5

Iszi

I see two people with Sam as first pick, it seems.

Sohum

and Squeaky as 3

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

yup

I see squealy as 4?

Sohum

I don't

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

6:33 AM

that's the only conflict right now and it's trivially resolvable

mind you, this is the only stable configuration for... quite a few votes.

hrmm

ah wells

Iszi

It does help that we have one more character than we do players.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

yup, that's why I designed it like that

Iszi

Though, after all of this collaboration, I think that one character will be missed by all.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

well, it's more that he'll be around, just not in the squad

also, do you guys think 33 is a dupe of 16?

Iszi

Selection was a little tough for me, since a little bit of me has gone into each of them.

Sohum

6:38 AM

@BrianBallsunStanton phew

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/33/online-pnp-rpg-software and rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/16

Iszi

Do we think what?

Hm

Trying to interpret "PnP"

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

plug and play

Iszi

That's what I thought... just didn't sound right.

I'll say, the questions are very similar but technically could be different.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

::nod:: no worries

Iszi

6:41 AM

For example, one question could be addressed by using Skype with a webcam on a physical battlemat.

The other, not so much.

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

mmm

fair 'nuff

Iszi

Well, 5/7 ain't bad for one night's work I guess.

I'll put in the other two tomorrow, and then start filling in known NPCs and background characters.

Sohum

oh, right, there was the thing you made

you should totally link and fave that in here

at least

Iszi

Yeah. Feel free to critique it.

I'm pretty sure I avoided re-writing anyone's history.

Sohum

Char Roster: docs.google.com/document/…

uh

where's the fave button?

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

6:45 AM

er

can we unfav that one and have a link with a title before it?

Sohum

howzat?

Iszi

spiffy

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

spiffy

Sohum

I guess you can't fave your own thing

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

either of you have access to the gumshoe pdf?

Iszi

6:47 AM

I think I've managed to cover each PC in a little under a page.

(Except for the 2 I haven't gotten to - Squeaky and the Shardmind)

Sohum

mind if I tweak the bits that I'd written to clarify intent?

Iszi

Sure thing.

I was just trying to get a baseline summary established, so not everyone's having to write a full entry.

Sohum

/me nod

Iszi

Chat log at the end is for me to reference, when writing about the NPCs that were discussed then.

Sohum

yupyup

Iszi

6:53 AM

(On tomorrow's to-do list)

Why knock out the tabs after "Class"

Sohum

because they weren't aligned right

Iszi

Looked proper to me.

Sohum

looked as if class had an extra indent to me

Iszi

Maybe GDocs is mucking it up.

Sohum

grarr gdocs

Brian Ballsun-Stanton

6:59 AM

?

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