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12:02 AM
@JourneymanGeek does the dell have an audio out connection method on it? like at least one for some sound bar (i would never buy)
 
I seem to recall it has a 3.5mm jack
and there's a dell sound bar
but I don't see the point. I just tap audio from my sound card
 
Dog with two noses
 
"How does he smell?" "Terrible"
0_0
 
I just realised the guy who drilled a hole through his 980ti was dumber than I thought.
He used a non reference card (and the same model I have)
 
Bob
12:24 AM
@JourneymanGeek How does that make it dumber?
 
@Bob basically he buys a cooler designed for the standard model (and MOST 980TIs are reference). He buys one of the few non reference cards on the market, finds his cooler dosen't fit and drills holes...
 
Bob
12:39 AM
ah
 
Its a less than obvious issue, but something you should have done your homework on
(Hell, I missed it was an AMP until I read the original forum post, and I own the same model)
 
yay, i finnaly figured out how to configure the lighting part of the keyboard. Now i got ExplodoType , i am going to have to watch out what i say from now on, as my words explode onto the keyboard.
The quick brown fox you mama you gonna die now suckers
ooops, could use a little less red.
 
Bob
Bob: at 11:48:59
Does that include licences I can use in a local VM? Or is that only on Azure?
Nelin: at 11:50:53
Yes, it is.
... "a or b?" "yes"
 
12:56 AM
@Bob "Yes, it is." isn't even a good answer for either of those questions...
@Psycogeek You straight up created a new word.... Google came back with 0 results for 'explodotype'. :O
 
kewl
 
Can anyone that understands delimiters in DOS/CMD perhaps expand my answer a bit?
0
A: ¿BUG? can not create file with '=' via command line ECHO and COPY CON

Michael FrankThe = character is a delimiter, functionally it seems to be the same as a space . As you can see in the example below: c:\NotBackedUp>echo abc>d efg.txt c:\NotBackedUp>type d abc efg.txt Likewise, = will do the same thing: c:\NotBackedUp>echo abc>d=efg.txt c:\NotBackedUp>type d abc=efg.txt ...

 
@JourneymanGeek It is not necessarily true that a master cannot learn anything. Even Master Yoda learns things.
 
Yoda: Opposite is what sarcasm say
known is less when more is observed wide view only see more yet know less about more.
translation: the more you know, the less you realise you know.
 
Bob
1:21 AM
Oh god. I'm going back and forth with MSDN chat support.
 
@Bob Yes, it is.
 
Did you type in the password correct? it is ********** write it down next time.
 
Bob
If I ask him if the annual cloud sub includes MSDN access, the answer is a very clear "No". But if I ask him if it provides access to local Windows licences the answer is "yes". Or a link to the same product comparison pages I'm asking him about.
It's like playing 20 questions with Cleverbot
 
Tell him you would like to order a burger and fries, if he says pull up to the next window, then move to 2nd level support.
 
1:35 AM
@Bob Probably more like playing 20 questions with Cavil.
 
Bob
I give up.
And the phone support isn't much better. Worse, actually.
And the email support still hasn't replied.
What, am I supposed to drive up to their door?
...maybe Twitter
 
I emailed Steam Support yesterday about how long the lockout on trying invalids keys is...
All I got back was a canned message stating that if you have trouble with a key please reply with a picture of the key with the reference number written on it.
 
Report fraudulent advertising with the FTC (federal trade commission) They will change the web page.
 
Bob
@MichaelFrank Don't worry. Someone will see it and reply in a few years.
 
Turns out, it's about 45mins to an hour.
 
Bob
1:38 AM
@Psycogeek I'm not too sure they accept reports from Australians.
 
But only because I had to wait.
 
Bob
I'm tempted to sign up again with one of those virtual credit cards with $5 on it and just seeing if it magically starts working if I wait a week.
 
Then stand in line for another $4 (class action) payment from microsoft, which is $400 minus legal fees.
 
Bob
@VisualStudio Does the annual cloud sub include local dev/test licences or is it Azure-only? i.e. can I run Windows dev in a local VM?
Let's see what happens here.
They're going to somehow give me a third different answer, I bet.
 
Bob, did you sleep at all?
 
Bob
1:44 AM
What's sleep?
 
You were here when I went to bed and you are here before I woke up.
 
Bob
I mean... of course not!
 
~~ is reddit syntax lol
 
hi, I installed debian today and I have a problem with the network
 
Bob
@jokerdino ~ is a typo for !
 
1:46 AM
I even tried using my external usb device to find connection but it seems like it doesn't recognize it
 
@Bob I can't make it not work.
 
There are only 2 network connections (lo-eth0)
 
@BobEbert Is it wireless that is not working?
 
What do you mean?
 
Is it a laptop or desktop?
 
1:48 AM
Well, it is not showing up on my debian
laptop
 
could be missing driver for the wireless card.
 
I installed debian 8-3-0
It printed something about that in the installation process, indeed
 
let's hope it is not broadcom.
 
iw something
Should I reinstall to show the message again?
 
@BobEbert without knowing what your system is, we can't help
go grab the specifications. Pastebin it or something.
 
1:50 AM
What do you need?
 
Knowing what wifi adaptor it is is critical
 
Well, I have a alfa NEH (external adapter)
 
especially with debian since they try to keep their distro ideologically pure by default
 
@JourneymanGeek it's Debian..
I doubt any of those cards work at all there :P
 
plug it in, pastebin lsusb I suppose
I think alfas are ralink but with beefed up antennae
 
1:51 AM
indeed they are ralink, and it is showing up with your command
my intel corp. is also showing up
I can't pastebin since I do not have internet access with that device!
Bus 004 device 003: Ralink Technology, Corp RT2870/RT3070 Wireless adapter
I believe it is a firmware that is missing
 
google installation instructions for it
 
which I did
 
ralink ought to have kernel support, typically
 
Shall I reinstall? I didn't use the external adapter during the installation
Could be the source of the problem?
 
shoudn't particularly matter
its old enough that it should work out of the box...
hm
ugh. I've done this before. I'm not somewhere where I got access to a linux box tho
 
1:57 AM
You don't have to read it but :debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch06s04.html.en explains my situation and (I believe) I need to add a new cd with the missing firmware
 
Seems a bit bass ackwards. Anything is fixable, and that feels cargo culty.
Oh
there ought to be a firmware package...
 
I'm reinstalling to see the missing package
 
installing that could help
 
ok I got them:
 
I'd rather go with ubuntu in situations like this
 
2:02 AM
iwlwifi-6000g2b-6.ucode and iwlwifi-6000g2b-5.ucode
 
iwl is the 'generic' driver....
it should work out of the box :(
 
I even have my external wifi adapter pluged in!
missing firmware: rtl_nic/rtl8168e-2.fw rt2870.bin
@JourneymanGeek Do you recommand anything I could do?
 
Say no to Debian. Embrace Ubuntu.
 
I always thought Debian was better
Guys I believe I found the answer, thanks to you
It seems to work!
 
2:18 AM
come on, don't leave us hanging.
 
On another USB, I installed the missing packages (packages.debian.org/fr/wheezy/firmware-iwlwifi) and thus, found the wireless AP
I'm reinstalling atm so I do not know if it will work afterwards, but I will update you with my results.
 
All the best
 
Very busy, so availability is going to be limited. Just went through a couple of baseball photography assignments and I have academic work to cover.
 
superuser.com/questions/1052460/laptop-mouse-power-draw "Device manager says the mouse draws 100mA and it is rated at 5V. Running for an hour: 100mA*5V*3600seconds=1.8KWH"
lol 1.8 kilowatts , math is worse than mine.
should be more like .1A X 5v = .5w ?
 
2:33 AM
yes.
 
@Bob if you're still lurking around, I'll be replacing my current build with a nice Intel setup: secure.newegg.com/WishList/MySavedWishDetail.aspx?ID=29380065
 
It's not even 1.8 anything... 5W over an hour is 0.005KWH.
 
My mechanical keyboard can draw upwards of 3 W at peak load and more than 1.5 W continuously. This can noticeably shorten laptop battery life.
 
That's why there's a built-in ^
 
@Daniel a built-in...
 
2:36 AM
keyboard
 
yay, newegg's captcha is not speciesist.
 
and trackpad.
 
@Daniel Are you talking to me or the other bob?
 
@Daniel the link needs me to login
 
Really?
 
2:36 AM
@BobEbert @Bob prime.
 
Weird...
 
@Daniel Why would I even bother lying about something like this :)
 
That was a rhetorical question
 
(seriously dude, pc parts picker. Even if its entirely useless in terms of where to buy parts from for me)
 
@Daniel Not really, you linked a secure part of the website that clearly says "MySavedWishList". There's probably a share link on their somewhere.
 
2:37 AM
Here's the parts:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130924
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117625
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232249
Total of $208
 
Bob
o.O
 
I looked for one, but couldn't find it. I used the email button to send it to myself and I used the link in that email. I guess newegg doesn't like me.
Baffled @Bob?
 
recycling a case?
 
Bob
Looks good, but also costs significantly more than the previous option :P
 
(nothing wrong with that)
 
2:40 AM
Yes, but it's modern. It's a 6th gen Pentium on an LGA 1151, with 16GB DDR4, upgradable to a 6th gen i7 or Xeon with 32GB DDR4 (or 64GB with a new mobo in 5 years)
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek He was asking about the cheapest way to upgrade an old AMD box
 
And the cheapest way to upgrade it is to not ^
A new machine will last me 10 years
That AMD clunker will maybe last 3
 
Bob
Heh. If you want future-proofing, DDR4 is a decent way of doing it.
 
I build for 5-7 personally
 
Bob
2:41 AM
The problem with Intel is they chance sockets every other generation. So don't expect to be able to upgrade to a modern gen a few years down the line.
But CPU speeds aren't changing much these days anyway.
 
There's no such this as future-proof
 
(course the latest system might do a bit longer)
 
only future-resistant.
 
@Daniel @Bob isn't there a DDR5 spec?
 
Bob
And you still have a lot of breathing room from a Pentium to, say, i7, within the same gen.
 
2:42 AM
@Daniel kinda sorta
depends on what you want to do
 
future-proof is a farce. It's only future-resistant.
 
With some minor upgrades a old high end box would probably outperform a new low end box
 
Bob
@Daniel Basically, as long as your budget is alright - go for it! But don't push yourself too hard if you can't really afford this yet.
 
My core 2 duo boxen are still useful in their current roles
 
But in 30 years it will be worthless @JourneymanGeek
I can take a $200 hit if I'm not buying again for 5 to 10 years.
 
2:43 AM
@Daniel what modern hardware of any sort does 30 years?
 
I used to have an IMB PS/2
original model
 
modern
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek That's debatable...
 
old stuff was built like a brick shit house.
 
Bob
A "high end" 2008 c2d is fairly easily beaten by a low-end 2015 i3 iirc
 
2:44 AM
@Bob for certain values of old?
@Bob I was thinking atoms and celeries on the low end
 
for value in $old
do
trashit($value)
done
 
Hey guys, if I wanted to learn what all the files and how a linux system work, do you have a suggestion of a great book?
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek eh, I was comparing like-for-like. basically, mainstream chips.
 
Point is, outside power consumption, older machines seem to be less useless than they have ever been.
 
2:45 AM
that book was good?
 
I have friends who swear by it
and they use it for competitions.
 
I'm a firm believer in learning by doing ;)
 
Bob
> Linux continues to be an excellent, low-cost alternative to expensive operating systems.
 
You don't need to know what all the files do.
 
what do you mean they use it for competitions?
 
2:46 AM
That too @JourneymanGeek
 
Bob
If I judge cost by time spent it's the most expensive OS I've ever used.
 
@Bob ._.
 
well if I want to become a pentester, I have to know where to find important files
 
That probably holds true for me as well @Bob
what important files are you looking for?
 
2:46 AM
@BobEbert there's a standard called the LSB
 
*hand wave* These are not the important files you are looking for...
 
/etc/group
/etc/hosts
/etc/motd
/etc/issue
/etc/mysql/my.cnf
/proc/self/environ
/proc/version
/proc/cmdline
 
Most linux distributions more or less follow it.
Except when they don't.
 
Those are just examples
 
Its useful to understand what the top level of the hierachy is, but beyond that, you can look it up
 
also, manpages
 
/etc/passwd and /etc/shadow.. but I found them in a book, so I am sure there are way more interesting files :P
 
What are you looking to do?
 
Didn't I link LFS 101 to you?
 
shot term, Learn how the os works and longterm, exploit it
 
Bob
2:48 AM
I think a pentester, really anyone working with security on that level, needs to be able to learn things for themselves.
 
such a narrow view :)
 
Bob
Not from books. Not from guides.
From actually playing around with it.
 
True ^ that's how I learned
And I have arguably one of the most secure servers on the net
*public net
 
Bob
Book knowledge is all well and good for a typical user
 
@JourneymanGeek I've been going through the EdX LFS101. It's pretty interesting.
 
2:49 AM
!!xkcd wrench
 
Should I still read the book: linux bible, or take the time to "play" with the os?
 
@BobEbert play with the OS. Look up the things you need to online.
 
Bob
You should always take time to put whatever you learn into practice.
 
google > any book
 
Bob
2:50 AM
Whether you want a book in addition to other learning methods is up to you.
 
I'm a firm believer in learning though projects.
 
thanks guys
 
Bob
But a book by itself is more or less useless.
Actually, more useless nowadays since everything is moving so fast.
Unless the book was published within the last year a good chunk will be outdated.
 
(There's a FEW books that are useful in specific fields, but they're more for understanding a way of thinking, than oldschool reference)
 
It really is. Ubuntu 16.04 nightly builds are finally stable. And undocumented...
 
Bob
2:51 AM
Starting with modern Linux using systemd instead of upstart/sysvinit.
 
When I learned networking, I made python scripts with scapy to put what I learned in practice, yea
 
@Bob heh, I need to work out an excuse to mess with systemd ;)
@BobEbert also document everything.
 
What do you mean?
 
Bob
@Daniel If you believe you're secure, you're probably not :P
 
I'm sad they got rid of /etc/inittab - it was so easy to use
 
2:52 AM
This I have an example for ;)
 
Want to test it @Bob?
 
Bob
@BobEbert Write down what you do so you don't forget it later.
 
I never done that haha
But it is true that it is a great idea omg
 
Bob
@Daniel Nah, I have better things to do :P
 
formatting is a bit borked but
 
Bob
2:53 AM
But, yea, security is usually a matter of starting with a sane config and keeping up with news and updates.
 
I'm starting today to note things I learned
 
Oh wow... okay. This app just played me a video advert.
 
1. Document your sources
2. document what you did
3. Document why you did it
4. Document any pitfalls you faced and the solutions.
 
5. Document how much coffee it used
 
@Daniel the answer to that is all the coffee
 
2:54 AM
True dat ^ the folks at Pixar went through almost a thousand 55-gal drums worth of coffee in the making of Toy Story 2
 
Basically in 6 months, if something goes wrong, you want to be able to look back and answer the big question
"WHAT THE HELL WAS I THINKING?"
most people do 1 and 2.
 
6. (Optional) Document how many swear words were used in the process for graphing your progress over time?
 
Ahhh I should have started long ago
 
I find 3 and 4 to be more important
@Jonno that might cause a buffer overflow.
and heh
I might be testing migrating my stuff to ngnix
 
7. Document the number of times you got carpal tunnel because you think faster than you can type
 
Bob
2:56 AM
@JourneymanGeek Oh now you do it -_-
 
I DO use ngin
*x
 
@Bob I have time, I have a few small projects where being able to use ngnix as a proxy may be handy
 
Anyways, I have to run fellas. Have fun (and if you're an ethical hacker www.km4ayu.com = 104.168.167.30)
 
@Daniel You can press the up arrow to edit the last message you typed.
 
Bye
 
2:57 AM
cya
 
serverfault.com/a/117600/33193 this is an example of poor documentation ;)
 
I know @MichaelFrank
Anyways, I'm leaving now, have fun killing each other.
 
but the official upstart docs weren't much better ;p
 
Use it then. ;)
 
Bob
@Daniel cya
 
2:59 AM
(so its what I did. Did not cover pitfalls - the chdir command and exec command using whole paths were a workaround for something - and there's room for improvement, I could/should have set it to aurorespawn)
So yeah
document everything
I actually use pen and paper as I do things, then transfer it to a text file
oh, and least when I did forensics, they actually did recommend using a physical book or form for that sorta thing
(yeah, you could use a second screen and a text editor/word processor, but that workflow is what I use)
 
I started my paper, will be useful
 
3:19 AM
I documented tons of stuff when learning OSes and programs, never re-read ANY of it ever, it became obsolete and I tossed it. But writing it down, ground it into my mind more than the ink sticking on the paper.
 
If I wanted to pass the terminal through a socks proxy, would I have to use iptables? On debian, because I remember when I was on mint, I was able to set it up with the default network program
 
Bob
user image
3
 
lool, what version of windows is that? 95?
 
I remember those good old days when operating systems were simple.
 
@Bob We used to load Hearts this way. Except we'd copy it from the Open File dialog in MS Word.
 
3:30 AM
@Bob Is there a CVE number for this authentication bypass vulnerability?
 
Bob
:O DL made a joke!
:D
 
I am not getting any of this, mine still works and looks just like that :-)
bet you dont get that cool Icon in the systray with the 2 computers showing network I/O in real time live :-)
talk about security features, every I/O that occured over the network could be seen right there on your desktop.
If you wasnt doing it, something was wrong.
then windows 7 added Gadgets :-) if it was showing network activity and you wasnt doing it, something was wrong.
now what you got ? they tossed that, threw out this, made the resource monitor look like barbies playhouse. and put Useless tiles on the desk that Could have all that data.
 
Bob
3:51 AM
ughhguhuhugh
@JourneymanGeek Now I got a reply to the email saying I can use those licences
@bwDraco It's 95, I think.
 
Just checked the Imgur page, it's Windows 98.
 
@Bob Now I've seen everything :)
@Bob I think your tech support guy went and checked ;p
 
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek It's a different guy responding to my email from Friday -_-
 
4:07 AM
got escalated?
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek Nope. He copy-pasted some response.
"At present, the software, services, and other benefits included in the Visual Studio Professional annual subscription are the same as those included in Visual Studio Professional with MSDN. "
 
Bob
"However, there are three key differences to highlight :" "Perpetual software use rights are not provided for Visual Studio cloud subscriptions" "Sign in is required for using the Visual Studio IDE with Visual Studio cloud subscriptions" "Purchasing channel and subscription duration."
If I take that at face value, that's exactly what I wanted.
Except it's also the opposite of what chat and phone support told me.
sigh
@JourneymanGeek Guess what chat support told me? "Yes, that is correct and we have a dedicated department for Cloud inquiries. "
 
Bob
They literally have the same phone number (and extension) and email address for MSDN and 'cloud' subs
 
4:12 AM
Isn't there a guy who works for MS on das biertube?
 
Bob
The guy who responded to my email to the "cloud" team ... has an MSDN signature
wtf is going on over there
@JourneymanGeek Not a clue. Maybe I'll poke in there and see if anyone has an idea.
 
ryan I think
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek Unless he deals with VS specifically...
lol
 
naw
I don't think he does
 
Bob
Thought not
@JourneymanGeek I can't believe it's so hard to get a straight answer to such a simple question.
"Can I run your software in a local VM or not?!?!"
Maybe I need to swear more.
 
4:15 AM
why wouldnt SO already have a question of that type , even if it can only be seen now by 10k and mods :-)
 
Bob
Obviously providing calm responses isn't helping.
 
Ifromatun huh :0 234 questions on VS licences
 
Bob
4:29 AM
@JourneymanGeek The really annoying part is the probable language barrier.
 
@Bob india? ;p
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek "please revert"
 
yeah, india.
 
Bob
It's not that bad but sometimes I just get the feeling that they don't really understand what I'm asking.
It's such a simple question!
 
prolly going off a script :(
 
Bob
4:31 AM
But if I rephrase it slightly differently the answer is literally the opposite.
"Can I run it on a local VM?" "Yes"
"So this is effectively equivalent to a MSDN subscription, except the perpetual part?" "No"
?!?!
"Does this include MSDN access?" "No"
"How do I get the product keys then?" "Ask our cloud support"
@JourneymanGeek Probably. There's the distinct impression of either being intentionally unhelpful or having no idea what they're talking about.
I wonder if this is what @OliverSalzburg deals with daily.
 
@Bob erf
yup
DEFINATELY india :(
I should grab some street urchins, teach them english, and they'd do a better job
 
Bob
lol
 
street urchins have less preconceptions ;p
 
the supervisor might know, actually they are the only ones that do know, the rest of the people are just there for moral support.
 
Bob
"moral support" lol
@Psycogeek Good luck getting in contact with them.
 
4:38 AM
thats where the swearing comes in
 
Bob
Problem is, phone is only available during working hours and I can't really have an extended phone call right now.
And the last time I tried phone I got similarly useless answers.
@Psycogeek I try to be nice when dealing with cust. support. But this is quite honestly ridiculous.
 
there is nothing wrong with saying , your information is incorect, Is your supervisor available? Yaawn, Look I want to speak to your supervisor, 3 minute delay. I am maintaing my temper here, Please put your supervisor on. Look #^&$Head, put your supervisor on before i fly over there and fill your butt with buckshot.
now you wont nesssiarily get the supervisor, but your now at level 2
 
Bob
lol
 
4:58 AM
blah.
2 more days to home.
 
5:23 AM
That seems a random thing to star
 

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