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12:04 AM
I also looked at drug tests today and like sacks full of chemicals. Somehow, I find it fascinating that you can buy that stuff online
And, apparently, they also make fake urine :D
My web ads are going to be messed up for months
 
Yeah, I was watching old Mythbusters episodes
 
hmm
@allquixotic @Bob: I'm looking at this online.net/en/dedicated-server/dedibox-xc . Opinions? ;p
 
Sweet, it includes DDoS
 
@OliverSalzburg a free DDoS? wow
 
12:19 AM
@allquixotic Well, it isn't free. It's 15 bucks per month
16 even
However, who could pass on a good DDoS?
 
@OliverSalzburg still, it's nice that it's included, so you can test your software against DDoS... better divert your domain to cloudflare :P
 
True, true
 
12:40 AM
(hm, I'd be paying ~4x as much as I am now but I'd be trading off shared sql, 128 + 256 mb vpses for 8gb of ram, more cores and I think more storage space)
hm. meh. I'll give it a few weeks.
 
@JourneymanGeek your 3 months went down to 3 weeks?
 
lol
I've been thinking of getting a dedi for longer than 3 months ;p
I've stuff scattered over... at the moment 3 servers?
moving some of them is trivial, moving others might not be (my wordpress install is strange)
(also, you guys are a bad influence. So am I ;p)
 
 
2 hours later…
3:24 AM
@JourneymanGeek You still on a fiber ISP with fiber going right to the house/apartment? does it mostly stay a static IP meaning change about every 2 weeks to a month , or a fully DHCP one changes every time you boot the connecing modem thing, or a fully static (always the same)?
 
It never changes.
I think it could when I reboot, but I hardly do that.
 
mine (cable broadband) is like that, "a watched IP never changes" it stays the same re-booting and all then out of the blue after rebooting the modem it may start using a different one.
So i cannot easily initiate a change, if I wanted a different one, but if i wanted a static one for a named server thing it would have to re-point any dns stuff used every once in a while.
 
ahh
Mine's essentially static
Always has been
 
4:02 AM
@Bob: we name printers after greek gods/goddesses at work ;p
So... we just had a printer named hestia
 
4:27 AM
I freaking love TNM so much :O
it's based on the premise of "what if someone made a Deus Ex mod giving digital life to the forum-dwellers of the Planet Deus Ex GameSpy forum?" -- and the game is extremely meta about being aware that it's a game, while still providing an immersive universe with faction fighting, etc.
I love how the two warring cults, the Llamas and the Goats, use little plastic Foons and Sporks as their weapons
 
4:44 AM
0_0
Foon?
 
5:09 AM
@allquixotic what you plying it on? the lablet?
 
5:20 AM
 
 
1 hour later…
6:23 AM
Hi all, I want to ask you how do you backup your data? My 1TB hard drive is full and I want to buy a bigger hard drive ( maybe 4TB ). I know that one external drive does not count as a backup. If I am going to buy a new drive, should I buy two extra external drive of the same volume as a backup? This sounds really expensive. And if I fill up the 4TB drive in the near future, then I might need to buy another set of 3 hard drives ( 1 internal drive, 2 external drives for backup )
 
@lamwaiman1988: Well, I tend to prioritise/tier my backup
I do full system images (backed up twice), but most of my media isn't backed up at all
and beyond 2 levels of local backup, I'd probably just get some cloud backup thing with unlimited storage and chuck it all there.
(so right now, I have 250gb + 300gb in system drives on windows, backed up to a 1tb linux system (that's not backed up, I need to fix that), and then that's synced to a 3tb external drive)
Music is backed up seperately, but most of my other media is transient. I can redownload or re-rip most of it.
 
Bob
7:18 AM
@lamwaiman1988 My important documents are on a daily incremental, with new full every week. It's barely over 1 TB after two-three years, but I've kept all prior backups for archival purposes.
I also keep a full image of the system drive, activated manually when I feel like.
Currently at 900 GB over two incremental versions.
Photo backup at 40 GB is activated manually - when I take some photos and add them. Also incremental.
I also have 4 TB+ of data on other drives that isn't backed up at all.
That's the tradeoff - I don't want to lose that data, but if I do lose it I probably won't really miss it... so not worth spending $200+ on backup media.
When picking your own scheme, keep in mind two things: how much redundancy you want (multiple copies? offsite backup?) and how long you want to keep old backups (you might not care about anything over a month old).
 
Bob
There's also schemes like grandfather father son, where you take dailies for a week, weeklies for anything older than a week, monthlies for anything older than a month, etc..
That means you lose some granularity when you retrieve something from a really old backup, but you save a lot of space.
 
heh. or X copies and merge the oldest into the main one
(which is what I do)
 
Bob
Incremental backups also save a lot of space when your data doesn't change much, but you don't want to keep too long of a chain (distance between full backups) - that slows down backups and restores, and increases the risk of corruption.
 
Morning. I'm not being lazy but since you guys are here all the time ( :) ) you probably have more experience but, is there a community type Q & A which is similar to "what do I do if some hardware fails"? I think I've seen it before but I can't find it any where. I have searched, sorry if this sounds like "do my search for me", it isn't meant to be
 
Bob
7:26 AM
@MyDaftQuestions Perhaps this?
17
Q: How do I troubleshoot hardware issues related to a computer freeze/crash?

KronoSWhat are some common guidelines and issues related to hardware being the issue of a computer crash? What should I look for and how do I troubleshoot these problems? What are some tools that are useful in diagnosing these hardware related crashes? I am looking to be able to isolate the proble...

 
sigh.. how did you find this? That is the exact thing I was looking for!
I searched SU using the hardware-failure tag
I guess that is why...
 
Bob
@MyDaftQuestions Search with keywords "hardware failure", sort by vote.
Sort by vote is very useful when looking for canonicals.
Also, came across this (heh, cc @JourneymanGeek)
13
Q: Is ReactOS or WINE the more stable replacement for Windows XP?

JoshAs Windows XP is now out of support and any freshly discovered vulnerabilities will not be addressed, it's time to retire Windows XP from my Internet-connected computers. There's a lot of Windows-specific software installed on these machines, and that locks the machines into a binary-compatible e...

 
AH, goodness me I'm a twit, I searched for hardware failure in the... unanaswered section!!! D'OHHHHH
Thank you very much @Bob
 
@Bob: I'm entirely aware of that ;p
@Bob: Its significantly better than I remember it
 
Bob
> ReactOS will flat-out crash your system almost on a whim, for doing almost anything. It'll crash more often and more readily than Windows 95 or Windows 3.1.
sounds very familiar :P
 
7:32 AM
that sux, and wine is more like an emulator with a linux base ?
 
wine isn't an emulator.
Says so on the tin bottle
Its a set of APIs for linux to run windows software. Its closer to say cygwin or mingw than to a emulator.
 
ohh "Wine (short for Wine Is Not an Emulator) kaay
this assumes one knows what (or anything about) cygwin or mingw , looks like a stripped and net serving off version of XP is still "better". I did not last but a few minutes running xpMode in win7.
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek well, it is an emulator
not in the binary translation sense, but still an emulator
the "set of APIs" is supposed to emulate Win32 APIs
 
an emulator can be sorta sandboxed by default ? because there is an in-between? crash the emulator on a NTsystem and you do not crash the machine?
 
Bob
Yes, to a point. The host will only crash if there's a bug in the host too.
That's assuming said process/emulator is fully in user mode.
 
7:45 AM
sometimes this stuff seems rather complicated to get microsofts solitare working :-) It sooo interesting anyone creating a OS from scratch that also runs my progams i have and paid for and all. But without major driver support always, and warring to do simple things, progress (bla) will win.
 
7:55 AM
I think you can play solitare in wine
or reactos, if you want to play solitaire and russian roulette at the same time.
3
 
Bob
8:07 AM
heh
 
8:56 AM
Urgh, monday.
Y U DO DIS.
 
Bob
public hol here :D
 
<Kbd>F7</Kbd>
 
Bob
?
 
9:22 AM
I'm kinda hoping F7 is a skip-day shortcut I'm yet to discover ;D
 
F7 -> Spjelsjeck.
 
I don't have the monday blues yet, but that might be because I'm unemployed. For me, every day is somewhat blue
 
@djsmiley2k sure just assign it to a batch that sends the wrong e-mail to the boss :-)
 
@NateKerkhofs: I've been there.
Its more of a grey, or institutional vomit green tho
 
9:26 AM
Question, any hardwarephiles here? I'm kinda with a dilemma involving which part to upgrade first
 
ram, cpu, then psu
 
I do hardware
 
then gfx
hdds come whenever required.
 
depends. If your ram's older, you may need to replace that, your CPU and your motherboard at once.
 
9:26 AM
I'm going to buy an SSD in a month for my boot disk, and then next year and the year afterwards, I'm upgrading my
 
@NateKerkhofs: what're you trying to achieve
 
^ That
 
next year and the year afterwards, I'm upgrading my CPU one year and my GPU the other year
 
Bob
@Hennes ..?
 
I currently got an i5 2500K and a Geforce GTX 770, and I'm not sure which of the 2 to upgrade first
 
9:28 AM
What are you trying to archive ?
 
Everywhere I ask, people say that the i5 is so good, it's not even certain that Skylake might outperform it
 
Bob
The high-end parts certainly will outperform it.
 
If you compile a lot, then a faster CPU might help.
If you play a lot of high res modern games the GPU might help more
 
I'd wait for skylake
 
Bob
Question is, do you need higher performance?
 
9:29 AM
Aye. Or just save the money
 
if nothing else, a modern i5 would have a better core count
 
I'm a gamer, I expect the games of next year to be more demanding
 
Aye
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek Core count is pretty meaningless for most purposes.
 
the machine will mainly be used for gaming
 
9:29 AM
that sounds like a solid system, especially if you have 'only' a hd monitor
 
Bob
@NateKerkhofs Wait until "the games of next year" are out.
 
But if todays games run fine then upgrade next year. You will get more bang for the euro
 
Bob
Most games are still designed around average PCs.
Or the so-called "next-gen" consoles, which have the performance of a low-mid gaming PC.
 
I'm not planning to upgrade either of them this year. the SSD is this year
I'm wondering which of them to upgrade in 2016 and which of them in 17
 
Bob
@NateKerkhofs Whichever one becomes the limiting factor first.
 
9:30 AM
That ;p
 
Bob
Or, if neither are, then upgrade both in two years.
 
Also, both nvidia and intel's planning some pretty major things
 
the reason I want to do it in 2 stages is to spread the costs better
 
worth waiting a little for the next gen nvidia parts, and skylake, then seeing if you need it.
 
Bob
There are two reasons to upgrade: your current machine isn't powerful enough, or "ooh shiny!"
 
9:31 AM
@NateKerkhofs: put aside the money. Dosen't mean you need to spend it.
 
Bob
as long as you aren't "ooh shiny!", you should wait until you need it
 
That's how I built my box
heh
 
@Bob another reason might be "ooh, smoke!"
 
@Bob: I'm currently in the "ooh shiny" stage ;p
 
that's not the case yet here though
 
9:32 AM
@NateKerkhofs: then your decision is made for you
 
Bob
lol
@NateKerkhofs Other thing: CPU and GPU requirements are very game-specific.
Some games are heavy on the GPU.
Some are heavy on the CPU.
And most will run fine on older mid-high hardware unless you really want max quality everywhere.
i5 2500K + GTX 770 is a decent machine
 
(I haven't bought anything, but I'm putting aside cash for shiny things)
yup
 
Bob
heck, my main machine is an i7 2600 + GTX 560, and I haven't had any performance issues
 
I have one with a core i7 from a generation later, and a GTX660, and its still working well.
 
Last 4 months I have been 'ooh, shiny' a lot. I bought nothing yet though.
 
Bob
9:34 AM
main reason I had so much trouble justifying an upgrade to Ivy/Haswell/Broadwell
 
I see. The only part I REALLY want to get right now is a 1 TB 850 Evo
 
Bob
Skylake might change that stance, who knows
 
and I'm getting that next month
hoping for maybe some nice deals from a local store
 
@NateKerkhofs: YMMV, but its probably a better idea to get a smaller pro
 
my current desktop uses a HDD
 
Bob
9:36 AM
I still favour the HDD + SSD cache approach
 
1) the TLC samsungs of the previous generations have had issues.
 
What's the difference between evo and pro?
 
Bob
Mostly because there's no way I'm gonna replace 10+ TB of HDD space with SSDs :P
 
2) the pro has a ten year warranty
a fair bit
 
is there a difference in speed?
 
9:36 AM
but the pros are MLC, have marginally more space...
yeah
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek The 850 gen is a much larger process size, but, yea, TLC is still pretty unproven
 
and theoratical lifespan.
 
Bob
but I'd be wary of Samsung at all
some 850 firmware updates (incl. pro) bricked a bunch of drives
 
@Bob when was that?
 
I've not had issues
 
9:37 AM
Is SSD firmware upgraded automatically, though? or do you need to upgrade yourself?
 
in any case, a good medium sized SSD + hdd > moderately good large ssd IMO
@NateKerkhofs: its done through magician, their management tool
its entirely optional
 
I'm not going to toss out my old HDD though
 
I'm still going to use it as a data drive
 
@NateKerkhofs: on my desktop build I have a 250gb 840 and a 3tb spinning rust drive
 
Bob
9:38 AM
@JourneymanGeek "optional" except with issues like the 840 evo, where not upgrading means you're stuck with severely degraded performance
 
(and one more drive for transient data)
 
Bob
and even the upgrade is only a hacky patch
 
My current drive is a 1 TB HDD
from 2011
 
ugh.
Its edging towards the wrong end of the bell curve ;p
 
so I mainly want to upgrade to an SSD for faster boot times and faster game loading times
I know the performance for FPS is marginal, but having a game load much faster is a really good feature
 
9:41 AM
ahh. I run my games off spinning rust ;p
 
Bob
 
Also, I got a 200 EUR gift certificate for that store, so I can basically get a 1 TB drive for the price of 500 GB
 
Bob
...or get a 500 GB one for free
 
that's also an option. I definitely don't want anything smaller than 500 GB though
The laptop I'm currently typing on has one of 128 GB
 
9:43 AM
256 to me is a decent compromise if you arn't putting all your game installs on it ;p
 
Bob
see above re: cache drive
 
but that's the reason I want to buy a decently sized one: so I can put multiple games on there
 
Bob
I've allocated 96 GB of this 128 GB SSD to a cache
cache hit is currently >85%
practically, that means that the vast majority of disk accesses end up hitting the SSD
 
games are only getting larger and larger these days. GTA 5 is 60 GB. most AAA titles are 30 GB
 
Bob
@NateKerkhofs a large chunk of that is media that'll never be accessed
 
9:44 AM
@NateKerkhofs: which is why I put it on spinning rust ;p
 
Bob
stuff like alternate language speech
 
yeah, but it's still installed alongside
 
Bob
and wasting space
and wasting money at 0.5c/GB
 
even if I don't use it, it's still installed by default, and few companies these days have options to only install the language you want
 
Bob
meanwhile I can store the same never-accessed data at 0.05c/GB and, through the cache drive, get pretty much the same speed as if it were installed on the SSD
the only exception being the first load, which only happens once every <extended period without playing>
 
9:48 AM
Part of why I want to install an SSD is also for the extra capacity it gives. installing a 1 TB drive gives me double the size
or, alternatively, I can configure 250 GB as cache drive for my HDD
 
Bob
personally, I'd go for the 500 GB SSD + 2x 2TB HDD for the same price
 
That's also an option, agreed
 
Bob
which also provides some space and a drive for backups
 
however, I'm not sure if my motherboard can handle that
It's an Asus P67 or something like that, not sure
 
Bob
I'll repeat: do not trust SSDs to be any safer than HDDs; treat both as equally (and very) likely to spontaneously lose all your data
Eh, I'm running a P67. 2x SATA3, 4x SATA2
 
9:50 AM
Everything dies.
heh, my c2d has 8 sata slots ;p
 
Bob
If you get an SSD, get it for speed. Do not get it for data integrity. Do not get it for capacity.
 
Bob
Data integory => backups. Always. No matter your storage medium.
 
Are online backups an option? something like Backblaze?
 
Bob
Capacity => from a cost-benefit perspective, HDDs still win by 10x.
 
9:51 AM
@NateKerkhofs: I'd prefer to have it as a third level cause time
it'll take ages to DL a TB
 
Bob
@NateKerkhofs If (a) your internet connection is fast enough, (b) you trust the company with your data and (c) you're happy to wait for the download if you need to restore in an emergency? Sure.
Normally offsite (incl. online & 'cloud') are best as last resort, when all other options fail (e.g. house burned down)
Local backups are better in an emergency scenario when you want everything up ASAP.
 
If I'm making a backup, I'm not going to backup EVERYTHING. For example, I'm not going to backup D:/Games
that's currently 400 GB of data that's quite easily restored from whatever service I installed it on
 
Bob
Sure. My important docs backup weighs something like 5 GB? Maybe 10-20 by now.
But if you want a restore image (OS) too, that'll be at least 50 GB.
All that offsite will still take quite a while to access.
 
When I tried the Backblaze trial, I had something like 8 GB of data on this laptop that I thought was worth backing up
and I can probably reduce that by a lot more by excluding the ProgramData folder, since that seems to mostly be config
but yeah, getting a 1 TB SSD might be overkill.
I checked the store where I'm planning on purchasing
 
backblaze is unlimited tho
 
10:00 AM
that's the drive I would then go for, 2X
 
Here's the thing. IF you lose all your drives, its probably worth it.
 
as the HDD
 
But as a primary backup, meh. I'd rather have local
 
and this would be the SSD:
 
10:02 AM
@bob where do you see intelllipower?
 
Bob
(fyi: that means 5400/5900RPM and a very short sleep timer = lots of spindle start/stops = poor life if not often idling)
@NateKerkhofs looked up the model number
 
Bob
hm, might not be, the thing I mentioned earlier is the "green" drives
 
that are all the HDDs they got
 
Bob
but "intellipower" is still suspicious
 
10:04 AM
meh. See if you can get HGST
 
Bob
if they don't state the RPM (or at least range), I can only assume they have a reason to hide it
 
on the left, the option "Geheugencapaciteit" is the capacity
 
Bob
whoops
 
Bob
!! s/integory/integrity/
@NateKerkhofs that one's definitely 5400 :P
 
10:06 AM
it's also 30 EUR more expensive than the other
@Bob I don't get what you mean by that string
would 3 TB in a single HDD be too much?
 
Bob
shrug IIRC Seagate had a bad run of 3 TB HDDs
I'm sticking with 2 TB ones at the moment, but might grab a 4 TB as a backup drive later
 
lol
seagate has unreliable crap. period.
 
10:23 AM
Yeah, I'm unlikely to get seagate.
More likely WD
 
HGST! ;p
 
what is HGST?
From the website, looks a lot like a corporate provider
doesn't seem interesting for consumers and prosumers
 
hitachi global storage technologies
They're a WD subsidiary. Make the most reliable consumer drives
 
I'll see what they have available at the store I want to buy from.
I'd rather buy SSD + HDD at the same time
 
heh. I tend to swap drives around a lot
I think I actually have a missing drive at the moment
 
10:48 AM
I still don't quite understand why I should take the 850 Pro over the Evo
I mean, they're faster, but they're also more expensive, and even if the warranty is 10 years, that's long past normal electronics outdated timespan
 
faster, more reliable, ;p
 
arugh
we have an exec called Tucker
/me kills himself
 
11:25 AM
A tucker is a farmer ?
Or is it some other slang ?
 
dunno
just that name made me D:
 
12:29 PM
urgh so bored today. :,
that moment when you're writing up new pages documenting people in various departments
and you realise there's two different departments who appently do exactly the same job.
and the structure of that department is Head: Senior Manager : Manager and no one else...
 
12:46 PM
I'm currently mucking around with an install of this us.hardware.info/reviews/5525/…
Its pretty good ;p
(amusingly on the old mini ITX box with a 30gb hard drive... shittiest. nas. ever. ) ;p
 
Bob
@Psycogeek found a more detailed analysis of an older lacrosse model: lygte-info.dk/review/…
looks like my BC-700 does have those temp sensors too
but apparently they're used for temp safety only, not dT/dt
interesting
one sensor for a pair of batteries... if they had one sensor per channel they probably could've done dT/dt
@JourneymanGeek Doesn't NAS imply a bit more S than that? :P
 
lol
was testing it ;p
if it works on that heap of junk, it'll probably work better on something that isn't
 
1:06 PM
and the neat thing here is it lets me pretty easily do stuff like iscsi and running additional stuff on the NAS
is probably sticking a 250gb drive in there, and some USB storage ;p
least until I can build a better storage box
 
hey out there
someone very familar with the tls/ssl protocol?
I want to know what the server does when the cipher suites does not match
 
Bob
@rekire best bet is to look up the rfc
 
they are very long and have multiple versions so I dropped the idea early
 
Bob
@rekire multiple versions? nope.
that's the TLS 1.2 one, most recent
 
okay good point
 
Bob
1:20 PM
@rekire what do you mean "does not match"?
> The cipher suite list, passed from the client to the server in the
ClientHello message, contains the combinations of cryptographic
algorithms supported by the client in order of the client's
preference (favorite choice first). Each cipher suite defines a key
exchange algorithm, a bulk encryption algorithm (including secret key
length), a MAC algorithm, and a PRF. The server will select a cipher
suite or, if no acceptable choices are presented, return a handshake
failure alert and close the connection. If the list contains cipher
 
I have a tls connection problem the server closes the connection after the client send his client hello. I'm guessing that the server does not support the clients cipher suites, but I would like to know it.
 
Bob
@rekire Is it a public server?
You could chuck it at the Qualys tester
There's also offline options => superuser.com/questions/109213/…
 
not yet... I'm using the tomcat default ssl port 8443, so I'm out with the most ssl test sites
I know which ciphers I have set, so I don't need to read them out
 
Bob
@rekire Your best bet is to examine the server logs.
 
well your quote above: *"if no acceptable choices are presented, return a handshake
failure alert and close the connection"*. my server just closes the connection. in wireshark I can see that TLS 1.0 is just I need to check the other RFC
 
Bob
1:26 PM
If the server is closing the connection without a response, there is no way for the client to know why.
 
I see nothing in the server logs
 
Bob
 
okay I see
thank you for your help
 
 
2 hours later…
3:06 PM
Pretty sweet uptime if you ask me
 
3:21 PM
that real or bugged?
With a broken gentoo upgrade I managed to get my uptime andl oad to overflow
so uptime of like 564697879351345687384351 days
load of -545489877979
 
@djsmiley2k Pretty sure it's bugged. I doubt they even built that switch 40 years ago
 
ah ha
i'm Ill, math isn't working
negative load is a fun idea.
 
3:41 PM
hi
 
hjowdy
 
4:06 PM
I have figured out a great use for my second monitor, put the goddamn developer tools in it !
 
4:57 PM
Heya guys
 
heya wood-many
 
How goes things entirely-idealistic one?
 
not very ideal
real life is minimallyquixotic
 
Bob
5:45 PM
Ugh. I'm getting annoyed at overzealous close-voters again.
 
Quick question: I'm buying a graphics card. (GTX 750 Ti) MSI vs. EVGA vs. Zotac. Any thoughts?
 
in general, I would go with EVGA
for the same reason why I would go with Sapphire for an AMD card
@Mooseman that said, I dont think buying 750ti is a good idea
 
@tereško Why is that?
 
it's ancient, and weak
 
@tereško What would you recommend around the $100 range?
 
5:59 PM
750ti is not "around $100"
 
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