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Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
00:02
@allquixotic kanye west? The real question me laddie is kan ye sing!
Michael Frank
Michael Frank
So uhh... had a user that had a small Excel sheet that was giving out of memory errors whenever she tried to add a column...
Turns out Excel thought the sheet was 983747 rows by XEJ columns big.
2
allquixotic
allquixotic
> XEJ columns
love it
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
0_0
blah
Somedays...
Parents went to malaysia with visiting relatives. Mom says "Use the pink rice cooker". Can't find it. Think mom lent it to my brother. The only rice cooker I can find would probably feed me for a week.
(and roomie's home alone most of the day ><)
allquixotic
allquixotic
bleh
> roomie
user image
?
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
Ya ;p
allquixotic
allquixotic
00:16
poor pup.
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
Its easier for me to say that, no ;p
He's having a few signs of seperation anxiety too.
(I kept telling my parents to get him more used to it. Or leave him at a pet hostel. But noooooo)
allquixotic
allquixotic
:(
Michael Frank
Michael Frank
@allquixotic Yea, I don't even know how to calculate in numbers how many columns that is. :P
Michael Frank
Michael Frank
00:38
stuff.co.nz/technology/games/68698263/…
DragonLord
DragonLord
user image
DragonLord
DragonLord
01:08
1
Q: Should we expect DDR3L RAM to work on the Intel 1st-gen Core platform?

netvopeI have a 4 GiB DDR3 RAM, a 4 GiB DDR3L RAM, and a laptop with an Arrandale-based Intel Core i3 CPU and an Intel HM55 chipset. The DDR3 RAM works fine on both Linux (Ubuntu 12.04 64-bit) and Windows (Windows 7 64-bit). The DDR3L RAM works on Linux, and this is the hardware information detected by ...

windows-7 memory bsod ddr3 intel-core-i3
In theory, it should work. 1.35V DDR3L memory is simply designed to be capable of operation at lower voltage, just as a good CPU can be capable of functioning correctly at the stock clock rate when undervolted. Per JEDEC specifications, all DDR3-type memory must be capable of functioning at 1.5V. The problem is likely to be the Westmere IMC not fully understanding DDR3L SPD information—the IMC, not the memory itself, ends up attempting to operate at 1.35V when it really can't. — DragonLord 4 mins ago
 
1 hour later…
Psycogeek
Psycogeek
02:11
@BenRichards could be hardware could be software. 15 years ago the headphones or mic would have been "senced" using a mechanical switching mechanism in the headphone jack (or mic jack) itself. The pin going in and a metal glide could disconnect or connect a switch. Todays audio cards instead use a "sencing" where the presence of a certian ammount of resistance between the used connections , is determined by curcuit stuff (logic switching). The old school method would fail mechanically.
The new sencing method fails electronically, where the resistance either does not change enough,, or the curcuit does not properly detect , because the ohms of the item connecting are not what it was tested with. Meaning it can fail soo easily.
When you mentined the "ground" it could apply, but generally everything on the PCB you use should probably be making complete connection, and be totally free of resistance between things when disconnected. That could be tested with a multimeter on ohms set to test resistance. Then indeed the ground and all the wiring connecting it.
A Case pannel could also improperly rely on a common ground (metal cases) and that could cause various flaws too. the Computer cases while they may represent electrical ground, are mostly about sheilding ground. So if it ground connects to the metal of the case, that might present a problem, hence "The ground" as you indicated.
Psycogeek
Psycogeek
02:29
It detects going in (low), but does Not detect comming out (high). IF it was a hardware issue, it would likely be caused if there is a tiny bits of connection (resistance) between the connections. it is very unlikely to be the size of wires (added resistance). so a multimeter could be used and an observace of any added curcuit stuff on the pannel board.
Psycogeek
Psycogeek
02:40
Like many "Is it hardware OR Is it software" problems, if you knew that either HorS was the intial problem, and the other is working fine, it is common (we all do it) to change the other HorS to try and solution the problem, adding one more possible problem to the mix :-) If shit only changed when you changed hardware, then adress it (especially when bought off e-bay:-) . If shit only changed when you messed with software, then stick with software for fixing it.
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
02:50
blah
Michael Frank
Michael Frank
@JourneymanGeek Is that a comment on @Psycogeek's monologue? ;p
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
This is a hard/fun one. I have a samba share on a remote system that's being insanely slow. Apparently I can't set a way to copy out the data.
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
03:05
It needs to be in place.
and most sftp/sshfs as network drive things that's free don't work at all.
@MichaelFrank: I gave up on blahing @Psycogeek's monologues ;p.
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
03:52
Its clear he longs for a kinder gentler ages when tubes were a newfangled thing ;p
Michael Frank
Michael Frank
You mean when the only type of mail didn't have an 'e' at the start?
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
04:06
yup ;p
And policemen wore short pants
Michael Frank
Michael Frank
04:24
hackaday.com/2015/05/15/…
This is really cool
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
04:56
0_0, How many isup clones are there?
Bob
Bob
@JourneymanGeek That assumes "isup" is the first :P
Ahhh what a nice stable network... 
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=10ms TTL=54
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=60ms TTL=54
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=5ms TTL=54
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=23ms TTL=54
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=8ms TTL=54
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=21ms TTL=54
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=39ms TTL=54
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=33ms TTL=54
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=4ms TTL=54
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=2ms TTL=54
Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=114ms TTL=54
XKCD
XKCD
At this point, if we're going to keep insisting on portraying dinosaurs as featherless because it's "cooler", it's time to apply that same logic to art involving bald eagles.
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@Bob: Its the one I remember ;p
Bob
Bob
@JourneymanGeek For some reason the first one I used and remembered is "downforeveryoneorjustme", which really is ridiculously long.
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
that's isup ;p
Bob
Bob
05:11
...huh?
...O_O
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
At some point someone realised/made enough money for a short name, and isup points at isitdownforeveryoneorisitjustme.com
Bob
Bob
...
Psycogeek
Psycogeek
05:53
@JourneymanGeek the problem here is not the new, the problem is the blending of both old and new :-) We just need binary speakers. I can make one, given enough money. instead of variations of electrical input, have a myriad of coils (no magent only electro magents) in a single speaker, digitally fire the correct coils for the correct frequency responce.
Which explains why we still use analog :-)
Is it not true that an LCD pannel (a digital one at that) has variations of voltages going to the light valves which respond different to different levels of voltages? digital or analog?
do human sences respond digitally or analog? If you feel low ammounts is it because less items (retina , nerves, sound receptors) trigger, or because items vary in the ammount of energy they releace apon triggering? If i stick a pin into my skin does every effected nerve send out the same level of electrical signal, and more of them just makes for more pain, or do they scream more the more you torture them?
In the analog method you would have a few nerves, and the nerves vary hugely the output based on input. if humans are digital, then it is massive binary "resolution" that creates the perception of variations.
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
06:24
Its impossible to get a 'perfect' digital signals (or generate perfect analog ones digitally for that matter) ;p
Psycogeek
Psycogeek
06:42
The path is now chosen :-) it is being taught now that binary is even smaller , based on representing human decipherable numbers, because it takes less digits as 0's and 1's . But if you mix it up 4561 does not have to represent human decipherable any more than binary 1111 is not one thousand eleven.
But nobody questions the teacher :-) and said in base10 (or even base255) using a the same type of BITs system would be able to represent human quantites way more than a base2.
Psycogeek
Psycogeek
07:02
The Box is wrapped around us tight, to believe that there could even be more than 10 glyphs representing a numeric digit in human terms. Just add up 3 ֗ ٨ 9 ʭ , carry the ƺ and you get the anwer 7 ɫ ͠
Psycogeek
Psycogeek
07:14
which actually is base◊ system ◊ being the largest glyph used in base255 :-)
Bob
Bob
@Psycogeek Depends how low you want to go.
Quantum physics says everything is discrete at some level.
But unless you look at it at that (very low) level, it may as well be continuous.
Psycogeek
Psycogeek
and in yocto quantum physics , they finnaly discover those particals are made of particles.
paradroid
paradroid
I'm proud of this answer.
0
Q: Shortcut with property type=file folder

galalagaAnyone can advise how can i get a "file folder" type shortcut on win2008? In the shortcut properties, on general tab, the type is "file folder" instead of normal shortcut type. I tried to drag target folder to start button and copy the shortcut but once checked the properties of the shortcut it...

shortcuts
Best Chrome Extensions:
one-tab.com
and
chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/tab-suspender/…
You're welcome.
Bob
Bob
07:31
@paradroid ...your answer has nothing to do with shortcuts
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@paradroid: What I really need is oneliner for chrome ;p
heh. I got a thing for work off of SR ;p
Psycogeek
Psycogeek
tabs inside of tabs in tabs, when will it ever end :-) at about the 28th open tab, i realise that I did not need 7 of them.
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
The alternative is 28 open windows ;)
Psycogeek
Psycogeek
so happy it is not that anymore. back then about 15 was enough to deal with at a time.
paradroid
paradroid
@Bob Nor has the question. You have to think from a n00b perspective to understand the what he's trying to say.
Psycogeek
Psycogeek
07:39
Someone needs to ask what the heck he is trying to have as an end results.
Bob
Bob
user image
That's what I'm getting from the question.
Nothing to do with creating an actual directory.
Psycogeek
Psycogeek
well you read it twice :-)
paradroid
paradroid
Huh? Folder shortcuts are different?
Bob
Bob
Actually, that particular one is a junction, but it appears as a shortcut to the inexperienced.
But an actual shortcut will still say Target Type: File Folder.
Again, I see absolutely nothing in the question asking about creating an actual directory.
Psycogeek
Psycogeek
". . . once checked the properties of the shortcut it shows as "shortcut"."
Bob
Bob
07:41
And I honestly don't know how you arrived at that conclusion.
paradroid
paradroid
Oh well.
I had fun answering anyway.
Bob
Bob
For comparison
Psycogeek
Psycogeek
He will either drop it or now he will have to clarify
Bob
Bob
user image
user image
paradroid
paradroid
How did you get that?
Bob
Bob
07:43
?
That's an actual shell shortcut.
The first screenshot was a junction point, so it had a Type: File Folder while showing a shortcut icon.
paradroid
paradroid
How do they both display in DIR on CMD?
Bob
Bob
@paradroid I don't see how that's relevant?
paradroid
paradroid
What's this other sort of shortcut he's on about?
Bob
Bob
...you've lost me. I thought the question was pretty clear.
=> superuser.com/a/917048/117590
paradroid
paradroid
Ah right, I see what you mean.
@JourneymanGeek What laptop are you on these days? I'm thinking of either getting a X250, T450s or even an X1 3rd gen.
Now that they have sorted out the trackpoint travesty.
Oliver Salzburg
Oliver Salzburg
08:08
answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-performance/…
Crazy shit
Tom Wijsman
Tom Wijsman
@OliverSalzburg Not really; a stuck key causes the key to be pressed a ton of times, which cancels any attempt to drag.
Bob
Bob
Ok, this is really annoying me.
My laptop's host OS freezes frequently (and briefly) while running VMware workstation.
Now, I'm pretty sure I fixed this exact problem at work before... some option & something to do with the host OS running from an SSD...
But I can't find the solution now -_-
Tom Wijsman
Tom Wijsman
@Bob The screenshots each show a different tab.
Bob
Bob
Everyone talks about some BIOS update or file corruption or crash or w/e... pretty sure it was a simple option I had to change last time. Might've been toggling some value in the registry.
@TomWijsman See the one above that.
There's three screenshots total.
The latter two are a shell link, to be compared with the junction point above.
Tom Wijsman
Tom Wijsman
Ah, yeah, isn't it so that a junction point does not need a target?
(Similar to how you can have a broken link on Linux)
Bob
Bob
08:20
Shell links and junction points are completely different concepts.
Tom Wijsman
Tom Wijsman
Yesterday I had to remove vmkbd as an upperclass filter of kbdhid to fix a not working keyboard that on a keypress caused the mouse to freeze.
@Bob Yeah, I know.
30
A: What are the various link types in Windows? How do I create them?

Tom WijsmanIn this answer I will attempt to outline what the different types of links in directory management are as well as why they are useful as well as when they could be used. When trying to achieve a certain organization on your file volumes, knowing the various different types as well as creating the...

paradroid
paradroid
@TomWijsman Here's some Wikipedia stuff that is probably just made up fantasy. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_aspect_ratio#4:3_and_16:10
Some more crazy stuff: ux.stackexchange.com/questions/72899/…
I'll try to find the Anandtech article
Tom Wijsman
Tom Wijsman
@paradroid Yes, a non-academical source referencing DisplaySearch again.
paradroid
paradroid
Business doesn't work like that. You aren't going to have LG and Samsung telling you stuff like that
But there are laptop manufacturers that give the reasons
Read the second link, but there's more than that.
Oliver Salzburg
Oliver Salzburg
@TomWijsman The problem persisted a reboot
Tom Wijsman
Tom Wijsman
08:36
@paradroid sixteenbyten is just a random blog that doesn't reference their stuff at all; furthermore, they make predictive statements such as "No manufacturer will change the price of a laptop due to the aspect ratio change" because that is entirely the decision of the manufacturer and could actually be done..
The Lenovo blog is finally a verifiable reference from you; however, it is only Lenovo with their screen manufacturer which does not reflect the whole industry as other manufacturers of both laptops and screens exists.
paradroid
paradroid
@TomWijsman Samsung employee there as well. I really don't know what you expect. If you cannot deduce anything from this, wow.
And I don't understand what your point is, as your original comment doesn't make any sense.
Tom Wijsman
Tom Wijsman
@paradroid Nope; no references for Samsung and BenQ included.
@TomWijsman The lower unit cost due to economies of scale of manufacturing TV screens has forced laptop manufacturers to move to 16:9 aspect ratio over the last three years or so, with only Apple buying in the quantities to allow it to stick with 16:10. — paradroid yesterday
@paradroid: Was the chicken first or the egg? You choose it the way you want to see it. — Tom Wijsman yesterday
@TomWijsman It's actually a known fact. There was a lot of discussion about it when Lenovo moved ThinkPads from 16:10 to 16:9 screens, three generations ago, with a lot of people being very unhappy about it. Shortage of high-resolution 16:10 screens for certain models, making them hard to get hold of, forced the change. — paradroid yesterday
@paradroid: Uhm, no, it is not a fact. A statement concerning one manufacturer yielded from a discussion does not imply a fact concerning all manufacturers. Furthermore, a statement concerning screens for certain models does not imply a fact concerning screens for all models. — Tom Wijsman 11 hours ago
paradroid
paradroid
@TomWijsman Which I just proved.
Tom Wijsman
Tom Wijsman
No, you did not prove anything.
All your references include is a statement from Lenovo only, the rest is not referenced to their source but only to an article which does not include a reference to the source.
paradroid
paradroid
Your orginal comment:
@Phoshi: I can treat my laptop as a TV and there is nothing you can do about that. 1080p24 simply means my laptop screen is ready to display content that is of 1920 pixels width and of 1080 pixels height in a progressive way at 24 frames per second. This should tell you enough when you are interested in the resolution of my laptop, it's not that a few pixels more are going to matter... – Tom Wijsman Jan 8 '12 at 2:09
What does that even mean?
Tom Wijsman
Tom Wijsman
08:41
What does that have to do with your assumed fact?
paradroid
paradroid
I just showed you.
Tom Wijsman
Tom Wijsman
No, you haven't.
> has forced laptop manufacturers
paradroid
paradroid
That what the Lenovo guy said!
Tom Wijsman
Tom Wijsman
You cannot demonstrate this to be a fact without showing that multiple laptop manufacturers felt forced by it.
Yes, but Lenovo guy is only one guy.
They are just a small slice of the whole laptop market share...
paradroid
paradroid
lol
Tom Wijsman
Tom Wijsman
08:43
(And it might be because they are one of the smallest slices that they are the ones actually forced, hypothetically speaking)
paradroid
paradroid
Actually, they sell more laptops than anybody else.
Including Apple.
Tom Wijsman
Tom Wijsman
The amount of laptops they have available does not imply a larger market share.
paradroid
paradroid
You are not making any sense.
Anyway, I have shit to do...
Tom Wijsman
Tom Wijsman
@paradroid You are not considering the power that market share implies.
That power allows them to not feel forced...
... which is why Apple succeeded in keeping 16:10.
HP and Dell could have easily made the same decision.
@paradroid Your assumed fact is not making any sense; one company (Lenovo) is not the whole industry, they are not representative for it. so, unless you are willing to find other actual sources (eg. from HP and Dell themselves) I advise you to stop trying as I doubt you would find references to other actual verifiable sources.
@paradroid My point is that "has forced laptop manufacturers" until now only means "has forced Lenovo" to me, as they indeed did state to be forced by it. For the rest, it is uncertain.
paradroid
paradroid
@TomWijsman I made a statement that I stand by and gave you evidence. You in return are not making any sense. It's like a creationist asking for the missing links, with your chicken and the egg crap.
I got work to do so I am turning alerts off.
Tom Wijsman
Tom Wijsman
08:55
@paradroid Only evidence for Lenovo, so your original assumed fact states false until proven.
(As the Samsung and BenQ links contain no reference to Samsung or BenQ.)
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@TomWijsman: actually, theyre the biggest PC manufacturer at the moment.
Tom Wijsman
Tom Wijsman
@paradroid It's not because you have a page that states it on a random blog that makes it a true fact.
@JourneymanGeek Who?
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
lenovo
paradroid
paradroid
@TomWijsman I really don't care what you believe. I just replied to your nonsense and told you about why screen aspect ratio changed. Believe what you want. Bye.
Tom Wijsman
Tom Wijsman
@JourneymanGeek Proof?
@paradroid Then don't state it to be a fact if you can't prove it, that's nonsense and creationist. You are the one that prefers to believe what you want. Bye indeed.
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
08:57
@TomWijsman: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenovo ;p
(And I checked cause I remember reading about that recentish)
Tom Wijsman
Tom Wijsman
@JourneymanGeek That's the "flood the conversation partner with a ton of information from a non-academical source" tactic, could you be more specific?
paradroid
paradroid
@TomWijsman Just delete wikipedia, lol.
If anybody can make any sense of this, get back to me. Cheers.
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
First paragraph, footnote 5
Tom Wijsman
Tom Wijsman
@paradroid Just provide the actual source instead of a random article.
paradroid
paradroid
@TomWijsman LOL okay, so if a journalist reporting on a conference for display manufacturers, or articles from the most renowned hardware sites on the internet are not enough, what sort of evidence do you want? I know it's good to be sceptical of dubious sources, but.... heh — paradroid 11 hours ago
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
08:59
gartner.com/newsroom/id/2960125
Tom Wijsman
Tom Wijsman
@paradroid: No, journalists are not verifiable as they write the most misleading titles reflecting their own viewpoint. A verifiable source cannot be misleading or based on a viewpoint, because it must be the actual source of your fact. For your fact, a verifiable source would be multiple screen producers and manufacturers making statements about 16:9 being forced. They are the only ones that can feel forced to do this and therefore they are the only ones who could make it a fact. This fact is not brought to existence by the most renowned economists, predictors, statisticians or journalists. — Tom Wijsman 9 hours ago
@JourneymanGeek PC vendor, but we're talking about laptops.
> Notes: Data includes desk-based PCs, notebook PCs, premium ultramobiles and all Windows-based tablets. It excludes Chromebooks and other non-Windows-based tablets. All data is estimated based on a preliminary study. Final estimates will be subject to change.
So, basically the results are preliminary (therefore not actual nor factual) and Wikipedia is makes a claim that they cannot prove yet.
@JourneymanGeek Thank you for providing an example of how easy it is to place an assumed fact in a Wikipedia article. :)
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
Ahh, joy. I just accidentally found a small security hole...
Psycogeek
Psycogeek
@JourneymanGeek small? so only a little viruses can get in :-)
Tom Wijsman
Tom Wijsman
@Psycogeek No, no, no, the microphone hole in your laptop.
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
(Actually, I found a small security hole trying to get something to work(
Tom Wijsman
Tom Wijsman
09:07
It could be a secret passage for three letter guys to insert a cable to access your laptop internals without having to open it.
@JourneymanGeek I usually find bugs in other software when I try to get something to work. :D
Some firewall hooking into callstacks, breaking a debugger's debugging capabilities.
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
Oh, its a config bug, or a documentation security by obscurity. I SSHed into a box that isn't supposed to be sshable.
Tom Wijsman
Tom Wijsman
@JourneymanGeek A set-top box?
They have all weird kind of services and magic.
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
naw, server
, not sure if its physical or VM, elsewhere ;p
Tom Wijsman
Tom Wijsman
Ours has its own DHCP implementation. It basically probes only the most common network ranges for a free IP. :-$
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
lol. Some aspects of work are horrifyingly byzantine ;p
Psycogeek
Psycogeek
09:12
so it helps that you played Skyrim ? odd new world that makes little sence untill you live it.
Bob
Bob
@TomWijsman Standards? Bah, who cares about standards?
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
10:10
hm. I mistyped my postal code (damn my paws) when ordering something. The company said they fixed it, they didn't. Then the shipper didn't deliver cause the address was wrong. Fine. A phone call would not be too much to ask : /
HackToHell
HackToHell
10:26
Quick question, I am setting up a continuous deployment thingy using fabric
Is git pull enough to update the code to the latest version in the remote repo
?
assuming they are on the same branch
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
That's the point of git pull ;p
thedailywtf.com/articles/like-a-well-oiled-machine
HackToHell
HackToHell
10:42
Okay then :D
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
The python thing or the twitter thing? ;p
MyDaftQuestions
MyDaftQuestions
11:26
Good morning. I'm looking to buy a surge protector but the prices vary. Am I too assume that a single surge protector plug which costs £20 offers me 4 times as much protection than one which costs £5. The prices to vary and I'm trying to understand what I'm paying for
 
2 hours later…
Bob
Bob
12:58
@MyDaftQuestions Nope.
web.archive.org/web/20140710072041/http://www.choice.com.au/…
Paying more != always better
Oh, and here's some reviews from @JourneymanGeek's favourite site :P
allquixotic
allquixotic
Power electronics
Power electronics is the application of solid-state electronics to the control and conversion of electric power. It also refers to a subject of research in electronic and electrical engineering which deals with the design, control, computation and integration of nonlinear, time-varying energy-processing electronic systems with fast dynamics. The first high power electronic devices were mercury-arc valves. In modern systems the conversion is performed with semiconductor switching devices such as diodes, thyristors and transistors, pioneered by R. D. Middlebrook and others beginning in the 1950s...
shit's complicated, and price is a poor indicator of how well-designed the power electronics in the surge protector are.
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@Bob: tho, that's probably good for a overview. If he uses gbp, they use 230v (?) and her majesty's power sockets.
MyDaftQuestions
MyDaftQuestions
Thank you @Bob
thank you @allquixotic
OK, I've been reading about them for a while (today) and there is 1 question I don't know the answer too... The fact no one is answering it probably indicates it's obvious or I totally miss understood but a surge protection appears to be a compressor - a reduction of voltage. The good ones appear to limit between 600 and 900 joules, and depending on the "quality" of the surge protection, it will remove a proportion of the voltage.
So, if my surge protector was rated at only 50 joules, and I got a surge of 500, what happens? Can I assume that a current higher than what it can do will mean it effectively is doing nothing other than letting the current through? Or would you expect the surge protector to act as a switch, effectivly killing the connection (power)
Bob
Bob
13:17
@MyDaftQuestions electronics.howstuffworks.com/everyday-tech/…
MyDaftQuestions
MyDaftQuestions
embarrsingly, I've read that article :(
Psycogeek
Psycogeek
@MyDaftQuestions what happens is if you get a surge that would explode your equiptment a surge protector might just detroy it instead, if you get a surge that would destroy your equiptment they do nothing :-) surge protectors are the most oversold and under capable items in the world
MyDaftQuestions
MyDaftQuestions
@Psycogeek, I get the feeling you don't rate them highly
it seems to be though if the surge is more than the rating it has, it'll blow the equipment any way!
Which means, it's just hoping/playing the odds etc I guess
Psycogeek
Psycogeek
I get them for the same price as any other outlet strip, soo i have like 35 of them.
MyDaftQuestions
MyDaftQuestions
Would you consider going from - socket on wall -> surge protector -> gang plug -> computer
Psycogeek
Psycogeek
13:23
but I would not believe they will do much to protect against a real problem. Also i am in 110-120V country not 220 type
MyDaftQuestions
MyDaftQuestions
Now I understand what you mean @Psycogeek
Bob
Bob
@MyDaftQuestions A surge protector essentially shunts excess power towards ground.
(Which will also trip any RCDs you have...)
MyDaftQuestions
MyDaftQuestions
oh, that's interesting to know @Bob
Bob
Bob
The 'joule' rating is just the max amount of energy it can divert before the MOVs blow.
Once the MOVs blow, the surge protector functionality is gone and all that extra power goes through your devices.
MyDaftQuestions
MyDaftQuestions
So, high voltate, MOV blows, high voltage continues, computer blows, high voltage continues, help, fire?
Psycogeek
Psycogeek
13:24
If your trying to protect an expencive computer (and components) against average damage (not lightning stirkes) a great regulated UPS does that, a surge protector does nothing , and did nothing to protect mine.
allquixotic
allquixotic
so obviously to protect against lightning strikes, we need surge protectors that weigh 6 tons and are rated for 110,000,000,000,000 Volts :)
MyDaftQuestions
MyDaftQuestions
@Psycogeek, meaning the UPS is more likely to get blown than the computer?
Bob
Bob
@Psycogeek Surge protectors are more for line spikes... a direct lightning strike is far too much power for most surge protectors.
@MyDaftQuestions That would depend on the type of UPS.
MyDaftQuestions
MyDaftQuestions
@allquixotic, OK, this is only does up to 200, so I assume I'll need more than 1? :D (joke)
Bob
Bob
An online UPS completely isolates supply from output.
MyDaftQuestions
MyDaftQuestions
13:26
@Bob, ok, but some exist which can do this... interesting
Bob
Bob
A line-interactive might pass a surge on.
A standby UPS won't do you a lick of good.
allquixotic
allquixotic
an online UPS struck by lightning might blow up the batteries though? :P
Bob
Bob
But a large enough surge can do just about anything. Consider that lightning travels through several thousand metres of air.
If you had a direct strike to a power line outside your house, just about anything can happen.
allquixotic
allquixotic
@Bob yeah, and air isn't a wonderful conductor by most measures
MyDaftQuestions
MyDaftQuestions
hmmmmm... OK, so basically, the surge protection unit works great providing the surge's "power" is within a certain threshold matched to that of the unit I buy...
So far, we've been talking about the amount of power, not the length. Does any one have any opinion on that ? I mean, lightning is very powerful but I assume very short lived?
Where as another surge could be just over the rating of my device but last a little longer
I guess the surge protector will be blown either case!!
allquixotic
allquixotic
13:29
@MyDaftQuestions if you have a well-designed surge protector, the duration of the surge doesn't matter; it will break the circuit and prevent flow of electricity as long as the voltage is within its tolerances
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic It's still a relatively poor insulator, but the sheer amount of it that a lightning strike needs to travel through...
allquixotic
allquixotic
basically, a good surge protector will keep you safe against anything but lightning strikes
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic That's not how most surge protectors work, actually.
Psycogeek
Psycogeek
Lightning strikes around here occur on things sticking up in the air, much of that CAN be mitigated by the transformers and other things it gets to ground through. And the other problem that actually exists around here is improperly maintanced transformers blowing up , without much assistance from mother nature.
allquixotic
allquixotic
line surges from e.g. equipment damage (transformers, etc. on the power line) are WAY weaker than lightning strikes
Bob
Bob
13:30
A voltage regulator might, but they cost a good deal more and can't deal with extended high voltages either.
> In general, the primary case of varistor breakdown is localized heating caused as an effect of thermal runaway.
allquixotic
allquixotic
Residual-current device
A residual-current device (RCD), or residual-current circuit breaker (RCCB) is an electrical wiring device that disconnects a circuit whenever it detects that the electric current is not balanced between the energized (line) conductor(s) and the return (neutral) conductor. In normal circumstances, these two wires are expected to carry matching currents, and any difference usually indicates a short circuit or other electrical anomaly is present. Even a small leakage current can mean a risk of harm or death due to electric shock if the leaking electric current passes through a human being; a current...
one of those plus a fuse should work ;p blown fuse, no current flow
Bob
Bob
I think the joule rating is usually for transient spikes - very very short times.
Any extended spike and you're going to put more energy (heat) in than it can dissipate.
Psycogeek
Psycogeek
@allquixotic What design is it that "breaks the curcuit" I have dissasembled many and the MOV does not break the curcuit, it "clamps" it like a sacrificial lamb being eaten by a lion. Probably a "good" one would also be fused in that respect, but more likely they use curcuit breakers which take much time to react.
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic A fuse won't blow that easily.
Neither would a circuit breaker trip that easily.
They protect against overcurrent, and a voltage spike would take too long to trip them. Long enough to damage connected devices.
Psycogeek
Psycogeek
Also it has been noted more than once , that the first time a surge protector actually works, it is often finished, as seen by whatever light nobody knowns what it means.
Bob
Bob
13:34
However, I'm pretty sure a standard surge protector will trip RCDs (they shunt to ground, which RCDs don't like).
MyDaftQuestions
MyDaftQuestions
So, they protect against the current over a certain threshold, and it's not relevant then what is on the other end... Meaning, I could have something requiring 10watts or 1000 watts...
Bob
Bob
So surge protector will divert on high voltage which will trip the RCD which would break the circuit... that could work :P
MyDaftQuestions
MyDaftQuestions
If this is the case, then surely I can have
mains socket -> surge protector -> gang plug -> 5 devices
Bob
Bob
@Psycogeek Ya, a MOV in a standard surge protector is supposed to become a conductor above a certain voltage, and will simply shunt power to ground... when they blow, they no longer conduct and all that power goes through the connected devices. They never actually break the circuit.
Psycogeek
Psycogeek
Fast acting glass or ceramic fuses would work, but that would be me saying that old school crap that has been around since the stone age , would actually work better than the new stuff :-)
Bob
Bob
13:37
@MyDaftQuestions Unless you have dirty power, it's not too helpful. Though it won't hurt either if you want to do it.
@Psycogeek Still not fast enough for sensitive electronics :P
MyDaftQuestions
MyDaftQuestions
Understood. @Bob
Bob
Bob
An online UPS really is your best bet if you're paranoid.
Or a voltage regulator.
allquixotic
allquixotic
@Bob yeah, and my house has an upgraded RCD that was installed ~12 years after the house was built due to a lightning strike.... it struck across the street and blew a huge chunk out of neighbor's chimney, and another leader branched off and struck our house somewhere, causing it to completely blow out our wiring and damaged many electronic devices
it's a vintage 1997 RCD... but probably sophisticated enough to be as good as one today
Bob
Bob
RCDs are pretty simple.
We had to replace our RCD with individual RCBOs, though. Too much nuisance tripping.
Psycogeek
Psycogeek
The regulated UPS , regulates (without online) all the power protecting against browns , a good UPS might be fast enough, and all UPSes have some methods of surge protection. but indeed only fully isolated , would isolate, but an isolation transformer itself does not keep surges or browns out.
allquixotic
allquixotic
13:40
huh, weird
we have one central RCD
very stable power, no residuals normally trip it, not even hairdryer in the bathroom
Psycogeek
Psycogeek
Cheap UPSes , will always work when the power goes out, cause you can test that 100 times , but when odd crappy power and browns hit, they are also worthless.
MyDaftQuestions
MyDaftQuestions
Right, thank you all for taking the time to talk to me. I understand this much better now. Points all round!!
Bye
allquixotic
allquixotic
amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-SU1500XL-100V-120V-Outlets/dp/B000RW5GQY/…
basically that UPS will work
Psycogeek
Psycogeek
tripp and apc make every kind , they will sell cheap consumer junk that barely works, and does little to actually protect a computer from crap power. up-to primo server stuff running constant (online).
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
@allquixotic: Once again tho, there would need to be a different varient for the voltage/plugs he uses ;p
Bob
Bob
13:54
hmm
@MyDaftQuestions it's better if you vote based on the content, not the person
also, FYI, those votes will probably be reversed as serial upvotes
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
I joke about british plugs a lot, but voltage is a thing here. 110V gear does not like 220V I am told ;p
Bob
Bob
I mean, I appreciate the thought, but this isn't really the right way to go about it
@JourneymanGeek there's something like three countries in the world that use 110V
oh, wait, more than I remembered o.O
Nate Kerkhofs
Nate Kerkhofs
Does anyone by any chance know when Samsung is releasing their next line of SSDs?
actually, since the 850 Evo only just released late last year, they'll probably be another year at least
Journeyman Geek
Journeyman Geek
14:09
Yeah ;p
(and ugh, I am having trouble with chat's initial loading)
I have the loading root access page sitting there for like 2-3 minutes
Nate Kerkhofs
Nate Kerkhofs
Has anyone seen the film "Blackhat" yet? I heard the tech used in there was so misrepresented that many tech people just boo'd the screenings
Psycogeek
Psycogeek
@NateKerkhofs gee and just when i thought they had done more to have accurate tech more than any other movie?
Bob
Bob
@NateKerkhofs Nothing new there.
Nate Kerkhofs
Nate Kerkhofs
I'm just basing it on what I'm hearing on Twitter from Scott Hanselman, Swift on Security and Codinghorror
Psycogeek
Psycogeek
at any rate like they say, you cant have exciting action without a lot of stupidity first :-)
Nate Kerkhofs
Nate Kerkhofs
14:18
I like it when they type with 2 people on the same keyboard like it's some kind of grand piano
Psycogeek
Psycogeek
Dont go into the bloodied celler with wierd noises and gunshots comming out of it, in the delapitated house 10 miles from nowhere , after hearing news reports , and reading old clippings about the number of deaths there. Unless you bring a camera :-)
Ben Richards
Ben Richards
@Psycogeek Thanks. This was a warranty replaced PCB. I suspected hardware as well. Maybe I was hoping for something more specific. I can try and get my dad's multimeter and see what can be gleamed.
I like this guy's answer.
2
A: Headphones detected by Windows when plugged in but doesn't detect the unplugged event

PatThis is definitely a hardware issue, do not waste your time anywhere else. Either your replacement is faulty or probably dirty; you should try some compress air and see before replacing the just added pcb for a new one. As a reference you can see here a "similar" issue also with a RealTek

Seems likely
But yeah, the ground cables screw into the case itself.
@Psycogeek Matrix Reloaded, Antitrust, Tron: Legacy
(See: Movies that faithfully depict computer technology)
(Yes, Tron: Legacy did. In the part of the movie before he enters the computer world, anyway. :P)
Matrix: Revolutions has a hacking scene where the protagonist actually took advantage of a legitimate exploit to gain root access to the power grid computer network. :P
Antitrust followed coders and actually used real open source code in proper context, as well as UNIX.
Psycogeek
Psycogeek
14:39
everyone knows you cant hack a nuke plant :-) "In 2010, US and Israeli coders (reportedly) unleashed the computer worm on Iranian nuclear facilities, sending their centrifuges into overdrive and spoiling the nuclear material they were working on."
Ben Richards
Ben Richards
I remember when that whole thing went down. Was following it as they were learning more and more about it. It was fascinating to watch.]
Also, no one said it was a nuke plant in The Matrix (I don't remember, it could've been shown as one, but I don't recall)
My professor actually showed the hacking scene from The Matrix Reloaded in class because it was a real hack. :P
Bob
Bob
@terdon Who said anything about screenshotting? :P
Also, the blurring of the names is entirely useless.
It's not like the page is publicly accessible or anything...
Ben Richards
Ben Richards
This is actually somewhat amusing... as if people were going to hack computers because of a movie... if they were able to, they probably would've anyway... computerweekly.com/feature/…
Bob
Bob
(And they didn't blur the name in the screenshot-within-screenshot either.)
> Some forms of hacking are almost impossible to prevent but organisations can employ simple security methods
... ... ...
Ben Richards
Ben Richards
:D
Well, it is almost impossible to prevent social engineering "hacks" :P
Hacking/preventing hacking is a never ending race to a moving goal line.
allquixotic
allquixotic
14:46
user image
remember nuking?
Ben Richards
Ben Richards
I don't remember that :o
allquixotic
allquixotic
user image
Psycogeek
Psycogeek
@BenRichards in the same way when they make up explosives in a movie they have often given the wrong ingredients , sounds cool but wouldnt blow anything up if tried at home .
Bob
Bob
@allquixotic "ver 2.3" really
Ben Richards
Ben Richards
@Psycogeek No, they used a legitimate real hack. I'm just saying, no one is going to hack a computer because they saw someone do it once, ever, whether in a movie or in real life or whatever.
That is, unless they already had the knowledge and skills. But at that point they've probably already done it anyway.
allquixotic
allquixotic
14:49
user image
That Brazilian Guy
That Brazilian Guy
@allquixotic I remember NetBus and... ahem Back Orifice.
Ben Richards
Ben Richards
ooh, I do remember Back Orifice.
I never used hacking apps like that though. I just head of them :P
allquixotic
allquixotic
I got nuked a few times when I was playing Diablo 1, Doom multiplayer, etc. on a dialup modem, and ended up downloading a nuke / anti-nuke program
That Brazilian Guy
That Brazilian Guy
Yeah. I had a.... friend that thought it was so cool to "be a hacker" and used to eject CD trays of random strangers.
Ben Richards
Ben Richards
In highschool I'd see kids claiming they got some programs like that and would pass around rumors of how they hacked people over AIM and stuff.
That Brazilian Guy
That Brazilian Guy
14:51
"Hacked" as in "ran a portscan on an IP range and nearly everyone had it installed at that time"
Ben Richards
Ben Richards
Stuff like that.
That Brazilian Guy
That Brazilian Guy
My friend told me that, I mean
Ben Richards
Ben Richards
In 6th grade someone once threatened me that they'd hack me through the wall socket. "Yeah, good luck with that."
Bob
Bob
Apr 22 '13 at 14:19, by Bob
user image
Modern version.
Ben Richards
Ben Richards
(Our computer wasn't connected to the internet at the time)
That Brazilian Guy
That Brazilian Guy
14:53
Power-line communication
Power-line communication (PLC) carries data on a conductor that is also used simultaneously for AC electric power transmission or electric power distribution to consumers. It is also known as power-line carrier, power-line digital subscriber line (PDSL), mains communication, power-line telecommunications, or power-line networking (PLN). A wide range of power-line communication technologies are needed for different applications, ranging from home automation to Internet access which is often called broadband over power lines (BPL). Most PLC technologies limit themselves to one type of wires (such...
They were just waaaay ahead of their time ;)
allquixotic
allquixotic
@BenRichards well, technically, if you had ethernet over power line, you COULD be hacked through the wall socket ;D
That Brazilian Guy
That Brazilian Guy
@allquixotic FRIST!
Ben Richards
Ben Richards
@allquixotic But I didn't! And I told him that ;)
I already knew about Ethernet over Power. I never used it. Apparently it's very dependent on the quality of your in-home wiring and cleanliness of your power signal. Why bother when you can do wifi, anyway?
allquixotic
allquixotic
@BenRichards apparently our power company here wanted to roll out ethernet over power for our entire area, but Comcast and Verizon screamed a shrill pitch like a little sissy boy who got pushed onto his butt on the playground, and they decided not to do it because they didn't want to deal with the lawsuits
That Brazilian Guy
That Brazilian Guy
> very dependent on the quality of your in-home wiring and cleanliness of your power signal
Then I might get 56kbps on it! :D
I live in an... old building :|
allquixotic
allquixotic
14:57
@ThatBrazilianGuy by 56kbps do you mean "a few bits here and there intermittently, with little spikes of a few KB"?
Ben Richards
Ben Richards
Trinity uses nmap in The Matrix Reloaded
►
allquixotic
allquixotic
speedtest.net: "I have no fucking clue what your bandwidth is; it's practically random"
Ben Richards
Ben Richards
Hehe
That Brazilian Guy
That Brazilian Guy
Well, by "I have 5 Mbps at home" I mean "We hired 10 Mbps, but the cable guy had to use a spare copper cable just to be able to provide us 5"
Ben Richards
Ben Richards
I forgot what specific ssh exploit it would've been that Trinity used in The Matrix. But apparently it was for an old version of SSH.
allquixotic
allquixotic
14:59
maybe SSH1 ;p
That Brazilian Guy
That Brazilian Guy
Wow, a movie depicting something about IT that makes sense :-o
Ben Richards
Ben Richards
Ah... ""[a]ttempting to exploit SSHv1 CRC32"
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