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12:25 AM
@allquixotic I am trying to think of a use case... for testing?
 
I gotta find a source for the Razr phone... I wish my carrier had it :(
Oh well
TTYAL, I gotta go
 
good morning
If nothing new goes wrong, today I scout for parts!
 
 
3 hours later…
3:27 AM
gotta say, having two separate computers next to each other is pretty productive... separate CPUs, etc. Like watching movies on one, and doing stuff on the other during the ads and boring parts :P
@JourneymanGeek how did it go?
 
Two screens and one computer also works :)
Or skipping the adds by using fast forward
 
@Hennes that, I don't have. and there's no fast forward on hulu
 
Record it, then play it back later
Just as people do with regular TV
 
what? how?
That would be fun actually
 
Press record on the VCR. Put tape in VCR #2, watch movie. Pause when needed, fast forward when needed.
Granted, these days it is probably PVR rather then VCR
 
3:39 AM
VCR? I'm talking about Hulu.com, you know? on my PC?
 
Never used hulu. They do not seem to want customers. (blah blah not available in your region.....)
But there should be some way to record it
I can't believe nobody wrote an app for that.
s/app/application/
 
I don't mind for now, though it's irritating.
@Hennes Hulu has some serious controls to keep people from doing that
 
So you would need to play it and run a capture of the screen at the same time?
Sound like a lot of work. :(
 
yeah, pretty much
 
Makes a mental note: do not get hulu. Get something similar from a different brand (when it becomes available)
 
4:32 AM
Crap!
--> Skipping 'games/kdegames4' (kdegames-4.8.4) because a requisite package 'kajongg-4.8.4' (games/kajongg) failed (specify -k to force)
** Listing the failed packages (-:ignored / *:skipped / !:failed)
! deskutils/kdepimlibs4 (kdepimlibs-4.8.4) (unknown build error)
* sysutils/kdeadmin4 (kdeadmin-4.8.4)
* devel/kdebindings4-python-pykde4 (py27-kdebindings-pykde4-4.8.4)
* x11/kde4-workspace (kde-workspace-4.8.4)
* x11-themes/kdeartwork4 (kdeartwork-4.8.4)
* deskutils/kdepim4-runtime (kdepim-runtime-4.8.4)
 
 
2 hours later…
6:19 AM
I deleted an answer with 2 upvotes, which means I lose the rep right?
Ah, the recalc just took a bit =p
 
 
1 hour later…
7:43 AM
@studiohack got everything I wanted within budget ;p
 
8:40 AM
@JourneymanGeek good to hear! :)
 
8:52 AM
@studiohack dude, that's what multiple monitors are for :P
no need to run twice the number of computers
 
@nhinkle lol man - you up late again? :P
@nhinkle I don't have multiple monitors anymore, I'm too nice to other people. I still have one, and I could use it with my laptop, but it no longer produces sound.
 
@studiohack about to go to bed. It's not quite as late here as there.
 
@nhinkle I know :P
 
Anyhow yeah, I'm on my way out. 'night @studiohack
 
'night @nhinkle - have a good one.
 
8:56 AM
you too
 
9:16 AM
Guys, I need help with my chrome
@nhinkle help me out with this? :)
 
@FasihKhatib he went to bed.
 
@studiohack maybe u can help???
:)
 
Sorry, very late here, need to fix an ipod screen.
 
ummm.... sure. Can it be because I am using CCleaner at startup?
 
Bob
@FasihKhatib Definitely possible. You should not be using CCleaner to clear Chrome temporary files anyway, you can do that within Chrome...
The best thing to do if you don't mind losing history, bookmarks, preferences, etc, is to create a new profile
they actually include instructions for transferring bookmarks
apart from that, I won't be able to help much - I'm primarily a Firefox user...
 
9:26 AM
@studiohack: I tried to document the build process, but I got carried away ;p
 
HA! I did it! Just replaced the digitizer for a 2nd gen iPod touch! BOO YEAH!
@JourneymanGeek of building your pc?
 
@FasihKhatib Create a new profile?
sleds out of the room as he goes to class...
 
ya ;p
It was easier than I remember, other than some of the cables NOT quite reaching, and the lack of a 'proper' USB 3.0 front panel connector on the case, and the motherboard not having an additional sled for it
going to get a windows 8 install disk set up before I boot it up
 
9:43 AM
studiohack is installing the much hated iTunes to wipe and get rid of the only and l(hopefully) last apple product he will ever own
2
 
lol
god I am so not going to miss getting kicked off the sole gaming computer ;p
not that its happened much lately ;p
 
GAH, I HATE ITUNEZ.
 
lol
everyone does
 
do I need to sign in to find the ipod already plugged in?
 
oh of course!
 
9:48 AM
fail apple. FAIL.
Now where can I control this thing? off to google I go
 
10:14 AM
aaand done. Now to sell this thing.
 
oh damnit
apparently the system won't boot T T
 
you building it now, @JourneymanGeek?
 
ya
everything looks ok >_>
 
ouch. hate it when it's not an obvious or easy fix
psu switched on?
@allquixotic you mean geek cred
 
yes
powers up for a second then goes dead
 
10:19 AM
mobo bios bad?
 
Afternoon folks
 
ya, first I need to get this booting
@studiohack: fresh out of box system
 
10:42 AM
goddamnit
there's a good chance my processor is DOA
 
11:01 AM
@JourneymanGeek ouch.:(
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek :S
what is it?
 
11:18 AM
3770
I MAY have luck updating my bios
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek nice one there
what happens if you try to boot with just a CPU and MB?
 
Bob
...
fun.
not even fans?
 
the bios update process seems to be doing something
so I'll let it sit
 
Bob
wait.. ah. you have another CPU that works?
 
11:27 AM
nope
bios updating works without a cpu ;p
 
Bob
...how are you updating the BIOS?
o.O
 
lol
some magic involving a USB key
apparently a press a button while I turn it on
and wait for the green light to stop blinking
naturally i saw this AFTER somewhere suggested trying running the motherboard outside the box
 
@JourneymanGeek Intense new gravatar :D
 
@OliverSalzburg: He KNOWS if you have been naughty or nice.
 
11:33 AM
no luck with the reflash either
 
11:44 AM
this is going very badly :/
 
What's Smart Move? O__o
6
Q: What is Smart Move?

StanWhat is the essential difference between Windows 7 smart moving (files) and the regular Windows file moving? In Windows 7, even renaming a folder would cause the OS using smart moving, which is not desired. Since back in Windows XP, renaming a folder or move a folder to another place (in same...

Awesome :D
 
12:35 PM
ugh
do I trust the motherboard and RMA the CPU...
/me is damned frustrated
ugh
can anyone else confirm that this is down? intel.com/p/en_US/support?iid=hdr-AP+support
 
@JourneymanGeek down, "page unavailable bla bla blah"
 
...
this is totally ruining my groove
looks like I need to phone them up
this just sucks :/
 
Bob
12:50 PM
@JourneymanGeek pretty ironic
 
Bob
but yea, really bad luck :\
is there any indication of power on?
how do you even know the flash succeeded?
 
I don't, really
><
 
Bob
so, any indication of power on?
perhaps the PSU is shot?
did you remember to plug in the auxiliary 4-pin power?
 
8 pin
swapped PSU
 
Bob
1:00 PM
oh, it's 8 now?
bleh.
I seem to remember you liked to use cheap PSUs, and had a stack of them handy or something :P
 
nope
In this case I used a brand new seasonic M12
and a cheap PSU as an alt
 
It seems that we have to walk very carefully these days.
Because if you accidentaly round a corner apple will sue you/
3
 
Bob
1:17 PM
@JourneymanGeek I don't understand how you're so cavalier about flashing your BIOS :P
 
hi
@JourneymanGeek DOA mobo?
Tried BIOS reset? Check (if it has a BIOS reset jumper) that it's not already crossed
Along the same vein, check all other jumpers on the board are at defaults, you might have a board that someone had previously returned to the supplier and it's not actually at default
@JourneymanGeek 'Powers up then goes dead' - usually some failsafe, make sure you have the cpu fan header connected to the right connector
 
Bob
@HaydnWVN and make sure the fan spins
 
@Bob Correct, also if you're using an aftermarket cooler & fan, try using the boxed cooler (+fan) that came with the cpu
 
Bob
1:32 PM
...every time I read the specs for a piece of hardware I own, I learn something new about it. says a lot about my pre-purchase spec reading habits...
 
Lol i tend to do some frantic reading when purchasing to make sure it does everything i want... Usually read reviews rather than official docs for the 'gotchyas!'
@Bob Damn, things are easy these days... USB headers that are already wired?! :D
 
Bob
@HaydnWVN what do you mean?
are you referring to the USB 2 headers that come as bundles of single pins/plugs that split apart? I don't miss those.
 
2:05 PM
> Super User is currently offline for maintenance
Noooo
 
2:20 PM
@OliverSalzburg all of SE is down it appears
 
@KronoS Except for chat \o/
 
lol
 
Bob
@OliverSalzburg @KronoS back
 
@Bob Thanks!
 
howdy friends
 
2:31 PM
@allquixotic Greetings :)
 
little slow though.. at least for me it is
 
ooh! I know why SE is so unreliable and down all the time! it's because it runs on Windows! </troll>
in actual fact I think it does run on Windows, which is depressing in its own right, since I've seen ASP.NET error pages before
but expecting it to run on anything else is folly because the founders are ex-Microsofties
 
@allquixotic asp.net isn't all that bad actually
 
it's not ASP.NET that's the problem. it's using Windows as a dedicated hosting environment. as a language ASP.NET is okay.
 
SE is Windows all the way to the bottom AFAIK
 
2:35 PM
Unlike microsoft.com? Or did they fully replace all those unix servers?
 
we don't have to reboot for updates on Linux. we have much more advanced TCP flow control / active queue management algorithms. the entire stack has lower overhead because you don't have to weave your way through a quarter-century's worth of backwards compatible libraries to open a network socket.
 
@HaydnWVN tested and tested. reset bios. did offline bios update, checked all jumpers, using boxed cooler.
 
also, licensing isn't an issue. you don't have to run a GUI on your server to do administrative tasks (granted, with Server Core, you don't have to run a GUI on Windows either, but almost all tutorials provide info on how to do things from the GUI)
 
@Bob It isn't starting up at all. If the cpu RMA dosen't help I rma the motherboard next
 
@Bob Yeah the split pins/individual pin headers and when the Motherboard OEM's wired their USB headers differently lol :)
 
2:38 PM
Well it powers up, and the cpu error light goes on
 
@JourneymanGeek Ahhh, same symptoms without a CPU in it?
 
44 secs ago, by Journeyman Geek
Well it powers up, and the cpu error light goes on
 
this makes me hurt inside
"cpu error light"... wow
 
with or without cpu, and with or without the cpu power connector
 
2:39 PM
@JourneymanGeek Faulty CPU then... Damn i've not had one of those since AMD K6 days
 
@HaydnWVN: calling intel to RMA tommorrow
@allquixotic: also has memory, and boot device error lights
 
@JourneymanGeek Why not your reseller? They should do a direct replacement as its DOA, Intel will not be a quick swap...
 
I remember one time when I was little, I was installing a brand new system with my dad and the package of the CPU specifically says "do not touch pins" and my dad taps them with his finger as he's holding it, and I'm like "DON'T DO THAT!!!" and he's like "what? it's fine!" and runs his fingers over all the pins... I'm like, omg, RMA time
somehow, somehow that CPU booted and it continued to operate throughout its useful lifespan, but wow... that was luck
 
Anyone remember those horrible Celeron Slot 1 processors? Had loads of failures of those, most of them not DOA, usually a week or so after install... Then again had more than 1 bad batch of AMD K6's
 
@HaydnWVN remember the F00F bug? :)
 
2:42 PM
That was about P60 time?
 
F00F and the Sandy Bridge motherboard's SATA controller slowly dying
 
(FooF)
 
@allquixotic Lolz it's the oils from your fingers causing the copper to oxodise on the pins making the connection poor which is the scare, never had a problem with it myself
@allquixotic F00F and Sandy Bridge are after my time
I stopped building PC's (OEM reseller) around the same time Vista was coming out (I changed jobs)
 
:| I build them at home even though I've never been paid to assemble a PC... can't imagine what it'd be like to buy a factory slapped-together desktop
 
And now i'm back in IT we buy from OEM's and preinstalled HP's at that... Hardly any use for all my hardware knowledge/experience :(
 
Bob
2:44 PM
@allquixotic something about high voltage to the SATA2 3Gb/s controllers
and then there was that FPU bug
 
@Bob current leakage from bad VRMs that weren't designed to handle that voltage or something
 
@HaydnWVN: Good question
 
@allquixotic Some are better than others... The bigger the reseller the nicer the build, but then the more obvious the problem... Had a batch of Dell's with the IDE connector FORCED into the floppy connector
 
Bob
@allquixotic well, whatever it was, I'm glad I missed it
 
/me has no idea what local resellers do
 
2:46 PM
it's funny, we cause a huge stink about a mainboard flaw or a CPU flaw, but almost every single ATI chip released has errata 60 pages long :D anyone ever play a 3d game and notice while walking that some random triangle gets drawn on screen as if a character or a tree or something has a limb with an "infinite" size? raises hand
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek sell you the parts?
 
I mean about returns ;p
 
Bob
I don't think Intel sells CPUs directly to consumers
oh
depends on your reseller then
 
lol
invoice says goods sold are not returnable ;p
 
Bob
the one I usually go to would be happy to swap for a new one if they have it in stock
 
2:47 PM
so intel it is
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek but they should still allow warranty claims?
 
AMD's catalyst 12.10 "stable" driver was released and WHQL certified while having a fatal bug causing spurious TDR bounces while doing almost any 3d rendering on the HD7900 series cards
only 12.11 Beta 11 fixed it
 
Bob
dunno about Singapore, but Australian law requires at least 12 months warranty for manufacturing defects
 
@Bob: warranty is through Intel
 
@JourneymanGeek Wow, if you purchased by card you'd be covered for 60 days at least as the product purchased is faulty and 'not fit for purpose'/doesn't function as intended - but that all depends on your local laws
 
2:48 PM
@Bob the reseller can't disallow you to avail yourself of any manufacturer's warranty, so as long as you have a warranty from Intel, nobody can stop you from using it
 
I pay cash >_>
 
Bob
@allquixotic seen that with a Nvidia (GTX560)
 
forums.vr-zone.com/troubleshooting-zone-technical-enquiries/… this seems to be the local warranty process for itnel
 
@Bob yeah, all except the "professional" GPUs (Nvidia Quadro/Tesla/NVS or AMD FirePro) have a non-trivial amount of error built into the GPU and actually consider that acceptable
 
@allquixotic I've always found ATI/AMD drivers and cards more polished and final than NVIDIA
 
2:50 PM
Quadro/Tesla/NVS/FirePro have ECC VRAM and scrub every value so that nothing is rendered or calculated erroneously... everything is checked to make sure that invalid values are discarded and re-run
it slows them down a lot; they also run at lower clock rates
but the enterprise/professional cards are way more expensive because every single calculation they do comes back to the user 100% correct, so you don't get those issues
 
Bob
@allquixotic well, their target audience would find rendering bugs unacceptable
 
@Bob not only rendering but OpenCL
 
Bob
whereas most people playing video games won't care as long as it /works/
 
when doing bitcoin mining on my HD7970, one out of every hundred or so batches of hashes gets rejected for having a mathematically incorrect answer
if I used a FirePro, that'd never happen
 
0
Q: further troubleshooting on a p8z77 motherboard

Journeyman GeekI just bought a brand now asus p8z77 motherboard with a intel 3770. Its currently not booting - the system powers up for half a second and then powers down, and the CPU error light shines. I've tried switching ram between slots, switching PSUs, updating the bios (which can be done sans motherboar...

I'll update if I can think of anything else
 
2:56 PM
@JourneymanGeek I have a P8Z77-V with a 3770K
 
did you have any issues with it?
 
Bob
hm..
 
nothing like this. nothing even remotely like this. :(
 
Bob
@allquixotic what do you think of the 7670(M)?
I'm primarily a Intel/Nvidia user, so I have no idea with AMD/ATI :P
 
@allquixotic: I'm wondering how trustworthy is the CPU light
 
Bob
2:58 PM
@JourneymanGeek updating the bios (which can be done sans motherboard or ram on this model)
 
@Bob Radeon HD7670M?
 
Bob
well, if you're missing the motherboard I'd say the BIOS update failed.
3
@allquixotic yea
 
@Bob ROFL
 
processor or CPU
I am just the tiniest bit pissed off
 
@Bob I have the HD7970, but judging from the part number, the HD7670 is probably a whole lot slower
 
Bob
3:00 PM
as far as trusting the error light; it doesn't indicate the CPU is at fault
could be a faulty socket, or any number of problems with the MB
 
for gaming I wouldn't use anything less than a HD78**
 
Bob
@allquixotic well, it is a mobile card
I was intending on a little bit of gaming
 
@Bob yeah, but they have HD78** and HD79** for mobile
 
@Bob: ya, but I don't have a spare motherboard/processor to test
 
Bob
but how do Radeon model numbers work?
 
3:01 PM
@Bob OHHHHHHHHH DUDE BE CAREFUL!
don't get the HD7670!
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek does the shop you bought it from also build computers?
 
@Bob: sort of
 
Bob
if they do (and are feeling generous), you might be able to get them to test on another system
 
most of the shops there will assemble if you buy the whole system off them
 
Bob
@allquixotic too late :P
any reason?
 
3:02 PM
misses his favourite shop
 
@Bob the first "7" in "HD7670" is a marketing trick! invokes Admiral Ackbar IT'S A TRAP!
 
I think I'll RMA the processor and see
and hope really hard its that and not the mobo
 
Bob
@allquixotic I have no idea how the model numbers work, so...
 
the HD7670 is a 40 nm part; it's based on the Northern Islands chipset, which is actually the HD 6 generation
 
Bob
bleh.
 
3:03 PM
god I have been saving for 6 months ++ for this and this happens :/
 
it's sold as being current-gen HD7***, but in actual fact it's just a previous-gen Northern Islands chip
as far as hardware support for actual capabilities, the only difference between NI and SI (Northern Islands is HD6000 series, Southern Islands is HD7000 series) is that SI supports DirectX 11.1, while NI only supports DirectX 11.0. But even more significant than that is the die shrink of 40nm -> 28nm and the first major steps to HSA which are present in SI, reducing latency and contributing to its future-proofness
 
Bob
@allquixotic pity with DX11.1, considering it's running Windows 8
but then, I would have had to wait for Haswell to get IGP support for that anyway
 
the other thing: NI and older, while being technically capable of executing OpenCL, gets horrific actual performance on OpenCL workloads (also DirectCompute et al)
SI and later are actually among the very fastest available GPUs for GPGPU/OpenCL
if you look at the difference in texture fill rate alone between the HD7670M and the HD7970M, it's from 4.8 gigapixels/sec for the HD7670M to 27.2 gigapixels/sec for the HD7970M.
even the 7870M is still three times faster at 12.8 gigapixels/sec
 
Bob
@allquixotic a laptop with that is probably well outside my price range
and not conveniently available in a local store
 
NI runs hotter, has poorer power management, uses more energy for the same result, takes up more room per-transistor, lacks DX11.1, and lacks hardware-accelerated video encoding (it does have decoding in hardware)
I'm sorry you can't afford or source the part, but I would very strongly recommend that if it's not too late, that you try to get at least a low-end SI part
much, much, much more future-proof
when the "nm" changes to "28" that's the lowest-end SI part
Radeon HD 7730M
 
Bob
3:13 PM
@allquixotic Well, for power/video Intel HD 4000 would have to do
 
the 7730M's fill rate is more than double the 7670M's
that's just a clue of how great SI is
 
Bob
:(
 
you can get an HP laptop with a HD7730M for about $750 USD new, or $650 refurb
 
Bob
@allquixotic model?
more out of curiosity than anything, since I've already got this one
though, this is more basic usage. anything particularly graphics (or GPU) intensive is going to the desktop computer with the now-slightly-outdated GTX 560
HP laptop keyboards... :\
LED on Caps Lock, ok, good
LED on wifi (F12), ok, good
LED on mute (F11), nice
now, why is there no LED on/for numlock?!
 
I had trouble finding the model number for HP, but here's Dell: dell.com/us/p/inspiron-15r-se-7520/pd
the cheapest one has a HD7730M, which is nominally Southern Islands
 
Bob
3:28 PM
@allquixotic huh, not bad
actually, nice high res too
how the heck did I miss that.. bleh.
 
you should be more disappointed that you missed SI than that you missed the 1080p display :P
although if you watch videos a lot, the display is more important
 
Bob
@allquixotic as I said, anything requiring powerful graphics goes to the desktop
 
meh
 
Bob
lol
 
you could just get a Surface then :P
 
Bob
3:30 PM
I was happy with a SB IGP on my previous laptop
 
for a composited desktop with a hardware-accelerated web browser (Chrome, IE, etc.) and most 2D GUI apps (even some light 3d like Google Earth), a Sandy or especially Ivy Bridge IGP is more than sufficient
but if you're going to buy a discrete GPU... may as well make it a good one
 
@JourneymanGeek Is there any country in which that is legal?
 
@Hennes: we may have lemon laws here
 
all they have to do is say it's "not fit for any intended purpose" and they can get around lemon laws
"what is its intended purpose?" "nothing..."
 
Over here I a) Know the shops usually give 1 year warranty. b) If they do not and I can in all reasonably expect a 1 year warranty and I did not get a very clear message that this was not the case I will just get the default warranty.
Which varies in the product.
 
3:37 PM
I almost always deal with the manufacturer warranty when I have a problem, except in rare cases when I know the vendor is extremely reputable and will handle my claim responsibly
 
E.g. a very expensive washing machine of a well known brand might get 3 years warranty, but that does not prevent me from claiming a free replacement if it massively fails after 5 years of normal (say once per week) use
 
oh, here's the thing. I have a distributor warranty
which I intend to use
 
Bob
@Hennes we get that by law, though they can deny refunds (e.g. for change of mind) - warranty only applies to defects/failure
 
for my smartphones, I deal with the carrier (Verizon) for issues rather than the manufacturer (Motorola) because I actually find Verizon's customer support to be superior to Motorola's -- Motorola isn't scaled out to talk directly to customers, they just make devices
 
Aye. I changed my mind is only a short time.
Or 3 weeks (?) if bought on-line. With actually no reason needed
 
Bob
3:39 PM
@Hennes or sometimes not at all
 
Dutch law means I have that as consumer. Always. I can not even choose not to have it.
Other countries: Heck. I am glad I know my local laws to a degree.
The US is usually a lot cheaper. But the lack of protection usually means I prefer to buy elsewhere. (Their business loss)
 
Bob
@Hennes lucky you :P
though I don't think change of mind refunds are that important
buyer's own fault :\
 
Lucky me with a 3.5 years old desktop and no cash to replace it.
Aye.
 
Bob
if there's something wrong with it, sure
 
@Bob are you changing your mind about the HD7670M? :P
how long have you had that?
 
3:43 PM
I suspect they got added to local law because it is not always clear what you buy via a website. People abuse that. Things did not regulate itself. Law got changed to 'fix' things
 
Bob
@allquixotic not really :P
@allquixotic 6 days
 
you could still return it and get a 1080p screen and a HD7370M :P
 
Usually there is a process over here with "hey, that is wrong. Why do'nt you fix it. then a few years pause, followed by 'Fix it or we will put it in a law'. A few years more nd than a law gets proposed
 
be tempted... be tempted..... beeeeeeee teeeemmmmmmmpppppppptttttteeeeeedddddddddddddddddddddddddd
 
Bob
@allquixotic stop tempting me :P
 
3:44 PM
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee....‌​... ok that would be too much text
 
Bob
@Hennes that's not 'change of mind'. that's more 'not as described'
@allquixotic honestly, though, I like the build quality on this thing
 
@Bob :/
 
Bob
hopefully it can last the next 4/5 years
 
not really because it doesn't have DX 11.1 </troll>
 
Bob
@allquixotic oh shaddup
 
3:45 PM
:D
AMD have been idiots about discontinuing extremely recent GPU generations in their drivers of late, too... I hope you don't get caught without support in the last year or two of life of your laptop
they dropped all future support (except for critical security updates) of Radeon HD4000 and older. thing is, laptops shipped new from manufacturers, as recently as December 2011, contained HD4000 ASICs
 
Bob
@allquixotic if the current driver works, I honestly don't want to update
that's what started my desktop drivers crashing under any real load
took a complete wipe of all nvidia related drivers to fix
 
except that you probably will need to update if you want to run new programs, because most new programs use features or rely on bugfixes from new drivers... hope you're okay with running the same software (and no new games) for 4-5 years
why do you think every single game in existence has as the first troubleshooting step "update your drivers" :P
 
Bob
@allquixotic considering how new many games currently rely on DX9, and some are only just moving to DX11 (with DX9 support), I think I'll be fine :P
 
honestly it's not the API support level that worries me; it's the fact that the implementation of said API contains bugs that are only exposed when a game developer tries to use those APIs, and rather than not use those APIs, the developer uses them and then leans on AMD to release a bugfix in the next Catalyst
even DX9 still has plenty of corner cases that need bugfixes
in fact, it's probably got more bugs for NI/SI than it does for older ASICs
 
Bob
sigh
 
3:52 PM
NI, SI and later are starting to remove some of the fixed-function hardware that older 3d rendering APIs such as DX9 and older relied upon, and these things have to be re-implemented anew in software or in shaders due to the absence of being able to bang on fixed function hw
you may find it tiresome to consider but it's just a sad fact -- it's taken a team of 10 people over a year to implement basic OpenGL 2.1 (DX9 feature level) for HD7000 in the open source Mesa graphics stack, and the #1 complaint from the developers is "we have to re-implement everything from the ground up because the hardware is no longer there"
before I got tired of trying to help because the drivers are still too immature, I reported like 12 bugs about basic OpenGL 1.0/1.1 features on that hardware
I just hope that ATI doesn't pull a HD4000 again... that would suck for a lot of people if they dropped HD5000, HD6000 in the next few years. They somehow think that dropping support and laying off engineers is a good business strategy
 
It is good short time strategy. SO you can collect your bonus and move to the next job where you will do the same
 
for the executives, yeah
 

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