[grid-deduction] Puzzle Solving - 2021-01-04

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3:19 AM

Yay!

@bobble Workaround: Paste a link, shift+enter once, and then send

shift+enter is the trick? Ooh, today I learned :D

i didn't realize there was a workaround for link size

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

TIL

3:37 AM

Current song is romanticizing the pesant life.

(also, hi 'borg! Musical News has restarted)

swaroopg92.github.io/penpa-edit/…

^ Penpa link

there's a guy with creepy shiny eyes

"love is a sort of seventh day, so thinking can rest"

(@Sciborg?)

"what are you learning as a fish?"

what is happening in this movie????

(The lure of Minecraft may have called)

"What am I? You're a hawk"

Mordred and Arthur are hanging out together in the forest, and Arthur is pouring his feelings out

@Graylocke what does it sound like?

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

Hmmmmmm

Pssssssssssss...?

(I'm resisting the temptation and trying to work out cryptic rules instead ^^)

3:54 AM

for what?

Hm? I am making a new (simpler) puzzle based on our conversation the other day :)

what conversation?

my memory is not serving

Our RPG one

still not serving

Uhm - back around Christmas? >.>

We were talking about how I made puzzles for the table top RPGs I ran and also about cryptics and how you were making one >.>;

4:00 AM

here?

In the lair I think?

Unless I am hallucinating -.-;

(link is to the transcript)

yes :)

what is the puzzle about?

phew - that indicates that two people with our names did indeed at least have a chat that involved RPGs ^^;

4:03 AM

I've been in a Twitch stream, sorry!! :P

Here now

so Arthur is angsting about how he doesn't want to watch the execution

It's a cryptic crossword / maze thing with an RPG type flavour ^^;

because he put some law into place that he has to watch and signal to start it

You're making a TTRPG puzzle??? Awesome!!

Like D&D/Pathfinder, or like RPG game?

yep, Lance fought the kingdom's knights to rescue Gwen

4:05 AM

Uhm - I am confused now :) I play RPGs like D&D/Pathfinder, and I put puzzles into them for the players... but they aren't "puzzler grade" if you know what I mean...

Oh, my bad - I thought you were saying that you were making an RPG-themed Puzzling puzzle :p

The puzzle I am making for here is supposed to follow the rules of a real puzzle, but bring a theme from D&D/Pathfinder (or potentially computer games that have similar themes) into the puzzle.

Oh both ;p

facepaw

anyways, d'yah want to solve a grid-deduction?

you know the thing this chatroom is supposed to be for?

sorry >.>;

hushes and goes back to checking rules :P

we still love you gray <3

4:08 AM

we get off topic in here all the time :p

this is literally almost never a grid chat

but we occasionally remember

so, slither? park? something else?

virtual hugs for understanding peeps

you're our favorite snow leopard <3

One out of one is still first ;p

"suppose they kill you"
"then I'll be dead. but I don't intend to be dead."

4:21 AM

i was just in my friend's twitch stream and she was talking about how she was so excited to get a sub yesterday and she only needs one more to get twitch revenue. so i broke out a big 6-month sub from my stimulus check and she got so emotional and it made me so happy <3

i have almost no idea what you're saying but yay!

twitch streamers are pure and must be supported

I've decided to try my hand at Pentominous, so I will be working backwards through GM's archive. And I'll stick my Penpa links here for the enjoyment (?) of other people.

swaroopg92.github.io/penpa-edit/…

(The link has source information and rules; I didn't forget credits!)

ooh :D

Use "Number" to enter letters because that makes sense

4:26 AM

makes perfect sense

swaroopg92.github.io/penpa-edit/…

making all the ones on the last page into Penpas before starting

Will star for future reference

wait are you going to do them?

ooh pentominous

then you would have Statue Park, Slitherlink, and Pentominous projects

I saw you posted some a while back and I need practice before attempting them

swaroopg92.github.io/penpa-edit/?m=solve&p=1ZJfS/…

swaroopg92.github.io/penpa-edit/…

swaroopg92.github.io/penpa-edit/?m=solve&p=1ZLNb4IwGIfv/…

4:33 AM

yeah, mine are not particularly easy (but i think they both have nice logical paths and don't require too much in terms of 'crazy global deductions')

swaroopg92.github.io/penpa-edit/?m=solve&p=1ZLdatswFIDv/…

And that's all the last-page ones! Time to start solving

First step: turn off the <expletive> timer

(Hum - is there an official way to get puzzles checked prior to posting? ^^*)

I used "ask Deus"

that only works if Deus is available

(hello! happy to testsolve puzzles)

@Desuovi Would you please? :) I would love to have hints on how to make it better ^^;

4:39 AM

Oh, you know what, 'borg? If you solve Pentominous puzzles you'll have to call the N-piece an N-piece. Because that's how they work

I refuse to bow to the oppressive autocracy

annoyed face i accidentally clicked on a bookmark while solving and when i went back all my work was gone

@Sciborg but you must

for the Greater Good of consistent terminology

For the Greater Good...

I finished the first one and conclude that it is Very Good and I like this genre

5:18 AM

second one down, still having fun :D

:D

this is literally "Fillomino but what if pentomino"

yeah, it's neat! it's like a mashup of Fillomino and Five Cells

may i ask for help

because i'm stuck on the third

sure

5:28 AM

... and my computer won't save an image

user image

aha!

and yeah i'm stuck

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

user image

I need help with this^

I am asking for help with something else; please don't butt in.

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

Ok Deus, help bobble first

@bobble What are the rules?

Also, the fact that you've made no progress is worrying - do you understand Statue Park?

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

I do

But I see no deductions

For example, the bottom left corner fits none of the pieces

5:35 AM

@bobble ah, i think i see the intended argument here? or at least the basic idea of it - not sure about the details yet

Is it something weird and complicated?

a bit? it's something global

@Anonymus25-ReinstateMonica that's not true - did you not know that you can rotate pieces?

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

I do, but even rotating doesn't work

that is also not true

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

At least, no piece will fit without touching

5:37 AM

pieces can touch

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

\Hint?

they can just only touch diagonally

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

Well, it can't be O, T, S, or I

so you've ruled out four of your five options

by process of elimination...

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

But if L is placed, it will touch with the upper black spot

5:39 AM

pieces can touch diagonally

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

Not what I mean

you can rotate the L piece

it will fill the first 3 cells of the bottom row, and then stick up by one into the next row up

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh

I thought vertically

Thanks

remember, you can rotate pieces - try all possibilities. if you can't figure it out, it might be better to go cell-by-cell

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

Now I'm really going, and thank goodness for that

Oh, conectivity logic can really be usefull, I just filled up a lot of ocean

5:43 AM

@bobble bobble, if you want a hint for a global deduction here: consider this puzzle. you can actually make a deduction here

user image

counting?

there must be multiples of 5 in any enclosed area

right

oh, hmm, i can place the V actually

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

I just got 3 polyominoes with some connectivity logic! That's convinient

yep! it's fun when you can chain deductions like that

5:46 AM

i shall endeavor to count

good luck! counting is hard

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

user image

I'm here now

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

@Anonymus25-ReinstateMonica Time for "count where this shape can go"

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

I just did some "Hey, only possible shapes in this area both use this square" logic

i have successfully counted!

5:55 AM

hooray!

i may have dragged my finger across the screen to aid the counting

maybe not

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

@Bubbler 4 places for I, 4 places for O, 4 places for T, 4 places for the remaining S, I don't see any deductions

@bobble Wooooo

@Anonymus25-ReinstateMonica hint: you can (mostly) place one shape

@bobble it's okay, we've all done that before (or at least i have. and even then i've messed it up)

'night, all!

night!

6:00 AM

good night :)

(yeah, counting squares takes practice)

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

Taking a lunch break, night!

What time zone are you in @Deusovi @Sciborg @Bubbler

Just to make sure I don't ping at the worng time

currently in EST, though that doesn't mean much considering my weird sleep schedule - I check chat pretty often when awake, though, so pings probably aren't necessary

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

Oof, exact opposite of mine

GMT+9, and I don't get notifications until I get really online anyway

It may look like I'm online 24/7, which happens because my office PC is on 24/7

6:07 AM

urf

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

6:21 AM

Ok, back to statue park, I don't see where I can place that one polyomino, another hint @Deusovi?

specifically, look at where the I can be placed - there are only a few options

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

I can be placed in the bottom corner, but there are 2 spots there, I can also go in the top left corner and the spot under that

can it go in both those spots in the top left?

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

Well, if both, then connectivity logic would say otherwise

But which one?!

(i count three ways it can be placed in the bottom right, by the way)

either way, you know at least one must be crammed into the bottom right

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

6:25 AM

Oh yeah

because you have to place two Is, and you can't put them both in the top-left quadrant

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

But there are 2 spots in the top left, which one should it be?

user image

even without knowing that, you still know that one must be in the bottom right - and that gives you some shaded cells

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

Ah yes, two cells

Now, it would be helpful if I can find out which of the yellows are shaded, so I can finish the Is

true! looks like you can't quite do that yet, though

instead, take a look at another shape that doesn't have much space

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

6:29 AM

user image

Squares for the Os^

Purple

looks good!

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

I see one square that can be shaded now, it doesn't help with the rest though

so you know the two general areas of the Os

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

Just if you actually count each space, you get 4 possible spaces

(knowing something like "this shaded cell is part of an O" can be helpful, even if you don't know how exactly the O is placed just yet)

specifically, remember where your other I goes? what does that do now that you have this new knowledge?

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

6:33 AM

Wait, if the I goes in the upper part of the top left corner, that causes ocean problems

does it?

i'm not convinced it does

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

Oh wait, it can go down, oof

user image

Places for the I

yep! one of those causes Problems™

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

If the upper doesn't, then the lower does!

Ok

can you see why?

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

6:36 AM

If the I goes in the lower part, then it will block the O!

OMG THIS IS AWESOME

exactly!

and you needed both the I and the O knowledge to figure that out

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

Wow, that was tough

oh you're just getting started - with enough experience that will become perfectly natural to you

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

I can now place both Os, thank goodness for that

(not that it's not an achievement - it is! there's just a lot more ahead of you if you're interested)

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

6:43 AM

user image

hooray!

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

YAYYY

I think I'll try to find an easier one next, oh here it is

user image

it appears to be three and a half stars, which I assume is pretty difficult

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

I might need help from time to time, so you'll be available, right?

to some extent? not all the time, and I'll be sleeping in a few hours

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

6:47 AM

Oh, ok, maybe for a bit

Tell me when it's your bedtime

user image

My progress, purple are the possible shaded squares

@Deusovi

possible shaded squares? so are you saying the other ones are impossible?

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

At least, for now

Oof

what do you mean, at least for now?

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

7:03 AM

All of the squares are possible, you know what, I'm stuck

then this may be too hard for you right now

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

user image

I need help with this one

Yellow squares are possible shaded squares

consider the black cell in row 3, column 2 - it must be connected to the top left, right?

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

Yes, but I don't know how

sure, but it must be one of those two options you marked

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

7:13 AM

It's either S or L

either way, that makes 4 cells

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

Yes

so you can mark some unshaded cells

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

user image

Now what?

do it again

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

7:15 AM

R6C3 seems good

user image

user image

@Deusovi

look at the center cell - it needs to be part of a group of 4, so it should 'expand' outwards

@Anonymus25-ReinstateMonica I think you made a mistake

yeah, agreed

how did you determine that R2C1 was unshaded?

or that R5C4 was?

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

Because both possibilities of L and S in both places use that square

that's not necessarily true - you could've placed the L like a 7

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

7:25 AM

Can you show me?

where's the original puzzle?

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

gmpuzzles.com/blog/2020/10/statue-park-by-salih-alan

user image

i would recommend starting out with mellowmelon's statue park pack: mellowmelon.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/pack02statuepark_v2.pdf

that's what i learned the genre with (as well as a few others here). it has a very nice difficulty curve

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

I did some already

plus a bunch of useful general tips

Anonymus 25- Reinstate Monica

7:28 AM

I did 1 through 4

Then you have like 40 more puzzles to try in the pack

the later puzzles introduce a lot of other useful techniques

10 hours later…

5:41 PM

i appear to have left out a rule in the last Penpa link - each area can contain at most one letter clue

5 hours later…

11:03 PM

swaroopg92.github.io/penpa-edit/?m=solve&p=1ZJfa/…

swaroopg92.github.io/penpa-edit/?m=solve&p=1ZLBb4IwFIfv/…

swaroopg92.github.io/penpa-edit/?m=solve&p=1ZHda4MwEMDf/…

swaroopg92.github.io/penpa-edit/…

swaroopg92.github.io/penpa-edit/?m=solve&p=1ZLBa7swFIDv/…

swaroopg92.github.io/penpa-edit/?m=solve&p=1ZLfa9swEMff/…

swaroopg92.github.io/penpa-edit/?m=solve&p=1ZLPi+IwFMfv/…

and that's the second-to-last page, for later enjoyment (of most likely just me)

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Jan '214

[grid-deduction] Puzzle Solving

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