@GratefulDisciple yea - I knew my wording was poor, I almost assumed that people would realize that those beings would need to have the same properties as God

Do you have any ideas for how to re-word my question?

I love this meme

@LukeHill Well, I'm not that familiar with Unitarianism, so don't quite know how your question would be understood by them. According to wikipedia they believe that "Jesus was inspired by God in his moral teachings, and he is a savior, but he was not a deity or God incarnate." So it's easy for them for God to love Jesus and vice versa because they are two beings

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove with your question. I think @OneGodTheFather would be able to give you more input since he's a proponent of Unitarianism.

@GratefulDisciple Well Jesus would have to have the property of God. That way they would exist on the same plane (I'm dramatically oversimplifying here)

@GratefulDisciple Lutherans (at least the ones that haven't abandoned their traditional teachings) might beg to disagree with that. Luther was trying to fix the Church. A lot of contemporaries "didn't see the point", and yes, most "Protestants" went farther afield. Maybe Lutheranism is something of a middle ground?

@Matthew Yes, of course Lutherans are the closest to Roman Catholics, which explained the Catholic Lutheran Joint Declaration on Justification in 1999. But in light of NPP, it seems Calvinists are actually closer to what Paul really meant, according to N.T. Wright in this 8-min video.

@LukeHill Jesus's having the divine nature is the Trinitarian position, not the Unitarian position.

@curiousdannii The position I'm comfortable with is that the early church fathers define the outer boundary where there can be various theologies inside, that can appeal to possible meanings of the Bible as the apostles would have understood them. So I'm comfortable with simply holding the Apostles' Creed and the Nicaea-Chalcedon creed. More findings of the background of the Bible will then not affect my position, but in fact beneficial to add clarity.

I also don't have to deal having to refine / repeal accretions and later theologies and confessions, which I can see as useful but optional reflections in responding to the philosophies / cultures / sciences of the day. Therefore my position is freedom within the boundary, which maybe what the early church fathers were aiming to do when they met in councils and issued canons.

I can then concentrate more on dialoging with the current culture, criticizing them if the culture's theology fall outside the boundary.

That way, I don't have to fight with other denominations within the boundary either, but in fact can learn from each other, or even change denominations over my lifetime.

The Catholic Church really does attract conspiracy theories.

@TRiG It could have been much worse: incorporating visions like that into doctrine. But squashing the Montanists very early on (AD 177) prevented the church from expanding revelation beyond control, seeking instead to preserve the deposit of faith.

@TRiG Trimming away all the conspiracy theories, this is the official Act of Consecration which includes the text of the prayer to be prayed tomorrow at 6:30pm Rome time tomorrow (March 25) during the Lenten Penitential service which will start at 5pm.

That's 10:30am Pacific time (USA/Canada), 5:30pm (UK/Ireland), 3:30am Saturday (Brisbane) live probably here (starts 1.5 hours earlier)

@GratefulDisciple eh I would argue that Anglicans are the close ones, Lutherans in second

@LukeHill Ah, yes, fair point. There may be others as well; my point was more that many Protestants are quite a bit farther from Catholicism. (Then there are the various flavors of Orthodox. Basically, all the High Church denominations.)

@LukeHill In general yes, but in soteriology (which is partly what the Joint Declaration document is about) Anglicans are closer to Reformed (adopting TULIP), at least some of the Anglican churches.

But I just found out how many people and churches are not really practicing what they declare, even JI Packer is privately Reformed but signed some declaration that is closer to Catholic. Also Anglican churches seem to be moving toward Catholics in soteriology too; Sydney diocese is a major exception, being faithful Reformed ! It's a mess.