The Upper Room

12:09 AM

Eschewmenical - The Christianity Stack Exchange Blog: What churches everyday should be

ChaosGamer on May 14, 2012

When Jesus first came into the world, and reached the age of 30, he began his ministry, going around the Israel healing, rebuking, and spreading the word of God. When Jesus was present, crowd was following him most of time. At that time, Jesus did everything, making miraculous miracles, such as reviving the dead or splitting five pieces of bread and two fish enough to feed 20 thousand people. (The 4000 came from only counting males.) And he did this miracle multiple times. but now Jesus ascended to heaven, and it was the crowd that followed Jesus that were doing these miraculous things. Discip …

Doubting Thomas

1:38 AM

@StackExchange you're in need of some editing, no? @ElendiaStarman ping

Bruce Alderman

4:03 AM

@DoubtingThomas It seems to me that this completely undermines the biblical case against gay marriage. If even ancient Israel, God's chosen people, could have civil laws that don't conform to the one man/one woman ideal, then by what authority can we prohibit modern secular democracies from doing the same?

El'endia Starman

@DoubtingThomas Gyah! Forgot to do that!

Doubting Thomas

@BruceAlderman actually, I'd say we can't

can't prohibit a secular government from legalizing it, that is.

but that's a debate for another day, and i'm tired :) I'll get back to you though

@ElendiaStarman :P

El'endia Starman

...and now it's timing out. -_-

Doubting Thomas

@ElendiaStarman the blog is wordpress, right?

El'endia Starman

@DoubtingThomas Wordpress-based, yes.

Doubting Thomas

4:06 AM

@ElendiaStarman okay yeah, thought so. timeout's likely server issue tho...

Bruce Alderman

@DoubtingThomas Sorry, I thought that was the point of this debate.

El'endia Starman

@DoubtingThomas It's working again! ^_^

...crud, now I actually have to edit it. -_-

Doubting Thomas

@BruceAlderman not really, we were just discussing how the bible defines marriage

Bruce Alderman

The question, as I understood it, was, does the Bible define marriage, and does it prohibit the state from difining it differently.

Doubting Thomas

@ElendiaStarman heh :D

@BruceAlderman we were really just discussing the first part

Bruce Alderman

4:12 AM

@DoubtingThomas OK, I'm still not convinced that Genesis 2:24 is meant to be a definition; to me it looks more like an explanation.

In other words, saying this is why we do this--because we've always done it that way--rather than saying this is the only way.

Especially in light of the practice in the rest of the OT. But you guys have already gone over that.

Doubting Thomas

@BruceAlderman maybe, yeah. It's midnight here so I've gotta get some sleep. :) but this is an interesting question. catch you later :)

Bruce Alderman

@DoubtingThomas OK, see you later.

El'endia Starman

[puts on epic music] LET'S DO THIS!

Bruce Alderman

5:12 AM

@MarcGravell I hadn't noticed it before, but you're right. With the exception of yours, obviously, every single answer says homosexuality is evil, sinful, or an abomination.

And yet, as you say, changing the law does not change a person's orientation. It just provokes bitterness.

That doesn't mesh with my understanding of the gospel message.

.

El'endia Starman

Hookay...first edit done...at least it's very readable now.

Bruce Alderman

5:28 AM

And sometimes laws can literally destroy people's lives. Alan Turing, despite his work on the Enigma machine and the many other contributions he made to computer science, was prosecuted and forced to undergo chemical castration because of his homosexuality. As a result he committed suicide at age 41.

El'endia Starman

Our Enemy is powerful, no doubt about that.

Bruce Alderman

If the goal is, as many of the answers claim, to prevent people from harming themselves, history suggests that outlawing homosexuality (as those same answers indicate they would prefer--not just keep the prohibition on gay marriage) does not work.

.

El'endia Starman

@BruceAlderman You've done a lone period twice already. Is that to show that you're finished saying something? :P

Bruce Alderman

I was preparing to change the subject, but then I thought of the Turing example.

.

If I was going to go after a sin by using the force of civil law, I think I'd go after gambling rather than gay marriage.

A gambling addict can force their entire family into poverty, leaving their children with diminished opportunities. And the harm can carry over many generations.

And yet, I have relatives who make several trips to the casinos every year.

I'm not going to tell my family members that this sin makes them any less Christian (we're all sinners, after all), and I don't think the church should treat them as lesser people because of it.

And I don't see why the church treats homosexuality differently from gambling.

William Bennett, author of The Book of Virtues, was revealed to have a gambling habit, and although he was roundly criticized by his political opponents, few if any Christian leaders argued that Bennett should stop this sinful behavior.

El'endia Starman

5:51 AM

Hello there @user63239 and welcome to The Upper Room! :D

Bruce Alderman

Ted Haggard was caught in a homosexual sex scandal, and was removed from the pulput and forced to go through therapy.

It's one thing to criticize homosexuality and then add the disclaimer that "we're all sinners," but I don't think the words and actions of most of today's Christians indicate that we believe that no sin is worse than others.

OK, I'm finished for today.

El'endia Starman

7:09 AM

Second edit done. I think I'm gonna let it be now. :P

Doubting Thomas

4:35 PM

oh, Flack Overstow, how I love thee.

3

> Acts 2:42 And they devoted themselves to the status of their children in giving answers to prayer

El'endia Starman

@DoubtingThomas [laughs] Oh, that's funny. The majority of mine is Bible verses, of course, although Bill Gates and his children get a mention. :P

Doubting Thomas

@ElendiaStarman haha yeah; generating for SO just gives a bunch of code, but man, there are gems sometimes...

El'endia Starman

> Called "gods" due to their association with our spirit to affirm that we may also share in his glory. We share in Christ's suffering because all sinnedâ€” 13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21 so that, just as sin by breaking a command, as did not warn them, they will die the death of the slain Â ;Â Â in the midst of the stones of the LORD your God, who has been dedicated to the Lord, his wealth, it is certainly the case that Gates

That's my Christianity profile. Now for my Math profile! :D

Doubting Thomas

@ElendiaStarman "Called 'gods' due to their association with our spirit to affirm that we may also share in his glory" LOL

El'endia Starman

> a vertex to the east (as well as the square root function on its rotation and then remove the number of gallons used per month, like so:

Doubting Thomas

4:41 PM

@ElendiaStarman ROFL

Jon Ericson

@MarcGravell I asked about this over at BH.SE, by the way. I think it is a cheap shot. I'm not sure our culture would look very good if forced to fit that type of analysis.

El'endia Starman

The majority of my Math.SE flack comes from Python code in one answer. Like, almost half. o.O

Doubting Thomas

@ElendiaStarman pretty sure you can re-generate and get a different combination

> It seems, then, that while the promise of entering his rest in God on one (just like Hebrew boys generally were supposed to refuse the Virgin Birth)...

El'endia Starman

BWAAAHAHAHA!

Indeed! This one's better!

> 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the Tabernacle.

Doubting Thomas

@ElendiaStarman yipes, heretical engine! lol

El'endia Starman

4:47 PM

Full text incoming!

> In bold made me think that these were prophets, but let's check the lack of oxygen in between the earlier passages may have been metaphors. However, immediately after that, it's back and began to eat again, and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to lay no greater burden on you are mindful of them, human beings that you care for them?

> 7 The locusts looked like horses prepared for battle. On their heads they replied, â€œbut for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be cut.â€ Â 12 As she was praying to the Lord, Eli watched her. 13 Seeing her lips moving but sin is not charged against anyoneâ€™s account where there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the Tabernacle. 10 Hannah was in deep anguish, crying bitterly as she prayed to the Lord. 11 And she was praying to the Lord, Eli!

Doubting Thomas

@ElendiaStarman ...and she was praying to the Lord, Eli!

Bruce Alderman

@DoubtingThomas >1 Corinthians 15:4 ...and that he died at about two o'clock on both sides of the equation. Yes. And that's consistent with the rest of the New Testament.

El'endia Starman

@DoubtingThomas I busted out laughing at that too! :P

GAAAHHHH!!!

One moment as I attempt to set things right... :P

Doubting Thomas

am i the only one seeing mine and @ElendiaStarman's messages mixed up?!

El'endia Starman

...although I'm tempted to leave it that way...

Doubting Thomas

4:51 PM

that is really weird.

El'endia Starman

@DoubtingThomas I accidentally hit "edit" instead of "reply to", so...

Doubting Thomas

@ElendiaStarman oooh... weird.

El'endia Starman

[bleep]

wax eagle

@DoubtingThomas yes, never forget we can edit your chats /evil grin

Doubting Thomas

...lol, nice.

@waxeagle blasted evil moderator powers

Bruce Alderman

4:53 PM

>Believing there were three days? To this a little, obscuring the fact that we should count this as three nights. But I prefer to understand this better I will say it difficult to enter into the kingdom of heaven, when they think their own gospels, as well as Marcion, who argued for just one gospel to be written, most scholars agree, was Mark. Mark's account of the scientists reach.

wax eagle

@DoubtingThomas yes, power, limited narrowly scoped power!

Bruce Alderman

>This viewpoint has been taken and she doesn't know where Arminius ended up when attempting to the Lutheran or Calvinist view, but we an imperishable one. So I can give my own perspective. First, what does "day" mean in the cross is foolishness to those who never had a chance to hear of the same from those books, or hear of the same from his contemporary Pietists back to the Holy One in your midst, and John as the fourth) The Book?

El'endia Starman

@waxeagle ;)

Okay, fixed! [sigh]

Doubting Thomas

@BruceAlderman Mark's account of the scientists reach!

lol

El'endia Starman

@DoubtingThomas Tried to do a whole bunch of Ctrl-Z'ing, but you can see the result of that... :P

Or rather, saw. :P

Doubting Thomas

4:55 PM

> why should the Israelites have committed adultery with every woman who knows how many will be saved?

LOL

El'endia Starman

LOL!

> The only reason you would say "older" when referring to THREE people (you would typically use "oldest") means that you are taking the greatest of a cosine curve and the unit?

> Similarly, the king of Tyre may have multiple tattoos and have gotten at least a couple after conversion.

Doubting Thomas

@ElendiaStarman ROFL.

El'endia Starman

(Full text:)

> May have been a man AND been important to people of the time. These people are likely thinking of the mightiest of the angels, did will not be remembered, and I want your will to be done, not mine.â€ [Emphasis mine.] Other verses in Joel. A comparison is shown below: Joel 2:4-5 (NIV) 4 They have the appearance of horses; they become angels. And then you have said, 'I am a god, I remind you of the angels who gives generously to all who call them brothers and sisters.

> Romans 8:29 (NIV) 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. Similarly, the king of Tyre may have multiple tattoos and have gotten at least a couple after conversion. Apparently, whenever "heaven" refers to what we are Godâ€™s children. 17 And since.

Doubting Thomas

...from Stack Overflow...

El'endia Starman

[refresh]

> The locusts looked like horses prepared for their deaths;

Doubting Thomas

5:01 PM

> Of course, you could also put your "folders" after the hash, so, with a base url of a table, which is probably why they don't happen at the same on pretty much any screensize and browser-compatible.

@ElendiaStarman that's rather poetic.

El'endia Starman

@DoubtingThomas LOL.

> Note: a|b, read as "a divides b", means that b is divisible by the product of the factorials of windows in the building but still cant figure it out, then the x-axis.

Oh man, if I wasn't in the library, I'd be literally LOL'ing over these...particularly this:

> God is sent to Hell will burn forever.

2

Doubting Thomas

@ElendiaStarman quite the heretical generator!

El'endia Starman

@DoubtingThomas Yeah, I think that's one of the most heretical things I've seen anywhere. :P

Plain nonsense from the same generation:

> Being a heir of God doesn't really make sense that Joel/God would be called a man or would light their arrows on fire in the sight of all who saw you.

Doubting Thomas

@ElendiaStarman but it's right, of course, they'd light their arrows on fire in secret

El'endia Starman

> in the hands of those who slay you? 10 You shall die the only convert who wrote about it;.

wax eagle

5:10 PM

man, its like a fascinating heresy generator :)

El'endia Starman

That's from a new generation, as is this:

> For it seemed good to the death of the slain

Doubting Thomas

@waxeagle we mustn't let it into the wrong hands!

wax eagle

@DoubtingThomas I tremble to think of the cults it could spawn :)

Doubting Thomas

@waxeagle oh gosh yikes

El'endia Starman

[stars original link]

Doubting Thomas

5:12 PM

Y U STAR IT?! HERESY WILL ABOUND!

El'endia Starman

7_7

Anyway...this one's more appropriate for an SO-style post...

> And afterward, I will pour out my fault"

From Math.SE...

> Step 1: Take a minor omission.

Back to C.SE...

> So Jesus is not ashamed to call these people "gods"?

Doubting Thomas

@ElendiaStarman niiiiice.

El'endia Starman

5:37 PM

@DoubtingThomas ...! I JUST realized that I have a friend named Hannah who's younger brother is named Eli. O.O

Doubting Thomas

@ElendiaStarman ...dun dun dun!

El'endia Starman

New generation...

> Must you come here drunk?

2

wax eagle

@ElendiaStarman good question...

Doubting Thomas

@ElendiaStarman I should totally star that out of context...

El'endia Starman

> In the NLT, it's quite straightforward: Acts 20:26 (NIV) 26 Therefore, I declare to you today that I am innocent of the blood of any better than these verses.

Doubting Thomas

5:42 PM

@ElendiaStarman that is seriously meta.

El'endia Starman

Actually, it gets better. If I keep quoting...

> In the NLT, it's quite straightforward: Acts 20:26 (NIV) 26 Therefore, I declare to you today that I am innocent of the blood of any better than these verses. Well, many verses that speak of Hell as opposed to Judaism's 3 or Islam's 3.

I removed a couple words from the next one to make it better...

> my great army that I don't have Biblical support for has basically been covered in darkness

Doubting Thomas

LOL, nice

man, Jin just keeps getting better

El'endia Starman

@DoubtingThomas Woah, what's that for?

Doubting Thomas

@ElendiaStarman Judaism graduated a little while back!

El'endia Starman

@DoubtingThomas Oh, sweet!

[looks at site] Sweeeet...

Doubting Thomas

5:50 PM

I really hope this site doesn't fail (I don't think it will). And I can't wait until it graduates

El'endia Starman

> There is the Crown of the evil one

@ElendiaStarman I think this one actually could be a phantom verse. :P

Doubting Thomas

@ElendiaStarman do you mods have a legit way to respond to yourself?

El'endia Starman

@DoubtingThomas Nah, it won't fail. And I'm looking forward to its graduation too!

Doubting Thomas

@DoubtingThomas other than the hacky way

El'endia Starman

@DoubtingThomas Actually, there's a script. I don't have it on this library's computer though.

Well.

Doubting Thomas

5:52 PM

@ElendiaStarman ah okay. I just copy the permalink and manually change to the reply syntax

El'endia Starman

A script to show you the number of the permalink.

Alright, I gotta head to class.

Seeya guys! :)

Doubting Thomas

later!

Caleb

7:27 PM

@DoubtingThomas Holy cow that's a barrel load of fun. Pretty much every-single-sentence is heretical.

Many of mine are not even safe for work either. Apparently my treatment of where rape fits in light of the ten commandments provided words that ... um ...

wax eagle

@Caleb lol

Caleb

> Faith is built on Paul.

So other than this epic time waster, what else have I missed recently?

(in the last week or so)

> If you love Jews you must start over and examine it's presuppositions.

wax eagle

@Caleb apparently the president said something positive about homosexual marriage? (I missed it too, I've been a bit out of touch myself)

Caleb

@waxeagle Ya that was pretty hard to miss on the interwebs even only half paying attention. I heard it on the street in Turkey too.

Caleb

8:52 PM

> Even as a Calvinist I can see how people who haven't been Christians often need idols.

3

TRiG

Hi All. Judaism is up and going at Mi Yodeya.

20

Q: Design for Mi Yodeya

Shalom! I'm Jin, I work on the designs for the Stack Exchange sites as they graduate from the beta phase. Each site will have its own unique theme that will reflect its topic and culture. However, all sites will share common elements so they feel like they're part of the Stack Exchange family. F...

Doubting Thomas

@Caleb ROFL

3 hours ago, by Doubting Thomas

Caleb

> Whose law place did he step into? Again according to some, the same set of wraiths.

TRiG

> Semi-mystic experience, which may take Christian beliefs to feel at home there,
and argue that were it important, Jehovah is the traditional rendering in Englis
h. They accept that the original pronunciation has been lost, and argue that Wil
l Endure Forever. From ghoulies and 2012, the Bible began to say that "God
hates gay people" is faithfulness, "illustrating the fact that since e
ven in worldly matters men cannot be answered until you've defined the word comp
atible remains hopelessly ill-defined in those traditions, without necessarily b

Caleb

@TRiG It's gorgeous.

Doubting Thomas

8:55 PM

@TRiG For another example, the!

You know, this thing gives you an idea of how clearly you write.

If you're all complex and confuzzling, the generated sentences won't make much sense

Caleb

>This whole process fulfilled several prophecies. First of all he was pierced, something that was prophesied about his soul.

> Lastly, Christianity did not begin 2k years ago with Jesus or Paul or John to refer, not to a child "that had a physical birth" rather than the grace of God towards the end of Revelation. Unfortunately, answering.

Wow here's one that's not pure heresy!

Doubting Thomas

@Caleb Unfortunately, answering. LOL

Caleb

> Whatever terms you choose to go by, you shall surely die.

@DoubtingThomas Ya even though the grammar is a bit messed up, I thought that was a nice ending :)

Doubting Thomas

@Caleb well. unless Christ comes back first :P

Caleb

> Calvinists may consult his wife and reach a lamb that is led to the passage in question.

Having started out as a programmer with LISP, this is simply not true:

> Certainly not all situations are equal and I have limited experience in parenthesis.

Doubting Thomas

9:04 PM

@Caleb true for us non-lispers, lol. nice.

Caleb

> NIV is the standard abbreviation for New Testament

Doubting Thomas

@Caleb ROFL

Caleb

I'm never going to get to bed at this rate. This is the most fun I've had all week.

> Frankly it's not terribly important we give references and encourage people by claiming this is the period of tribulation, a 7 year period of disaster.

> Nothing taught by Paul gave that instruction and why it comes alive in light of the case are not fair, feel free to comment. Was 1st Century Judaism in Paul's time was actually more examples could be given from just change species.

Doubting Thomas

@Caleb Mission Accomplished.

TRiG

> As Tim Minchin informs us, birth control is not an Americanism, though I did know it tasted like horse piss.

Caleb

9:09 PM

> In testing it can be shown that seems like a very selfish prayer shows that that money and success as a perfect man gives us this day our daily bread, and then the choice again becomes clear.

TRiG

1.6k 6 12

british-english grammaticality meaning single-word-requests phrases american-english dialects

Caleb

@DoubtingThomas Are we sure it's not just so late for me that everything seems funnier than it is? Because I'm crying.

> Species can't inter-breed. Lets try a scenario where there are lots of different traditions here.

Doubting Thomas

@Caleb heheh :D

Flimzy

I don't want to derail whatever conversations are currently under way, but if anyone feels like commenting, I'd welcome feedback on why my question might be considered "not constructive." If it truly is, I want to make it as constructive and respectful as possible.

14

Q: What is a Christian's justification for a legal prohibition of homosexual marriage?

Today President Obama came out as the first U.S. president to support gay marriage. In his address, he even quoted scripture to support his change of view. Love him or hate him, it seems clear that he has struggled personally over the issue, which leads me to think that Obama probably personall...

biblical-basis doctrine homosexuality

Caleb

> The book name The wrath of God was emptied upon him. Forget the cross and the similarities to be echos of general constituency.

> I think men are required to Snopes every single last references to death.

Flimzy

9:13 PM

It currently has 14 up votes, but 3 'not constructive' votes.. so while the NC votes are a minority, I still want to take any reasonable measures to be as constructive and respectful as possible, given the sensitive nature of the subject matter.

Caleb

@Flimzy Oh trust us, you aren't interrupting anything serious.

@Flimzy I havn't read it yet, but upvotes != constructive. In fact often times they are a contra-indication if they are coming from popularity/controversy/etc.

TRiG

@DoubtingThomas Ah. Should have checked first.

Flimzy

@Caleb: True enough.

Caleb

@Flimzy I tend to agree that it's NC because it's basically bate for opinion. Asking for "biblical perspectives" doesn't help narrow it down. I personally believe the Bible is our only solid foundation for forming beliefs on the issues, but tacking that onto an SE question on a site where Christianity is not defined and anybodies interpretation flies just really doesn't help.

TRiG

in English Language and Usage, May 9 at 16:08, by RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

You make no sense, I make no sense,
it seems it's been that way forever.
So if you make no sense, and I make no sense,
why not not make sense together?

Doubting Thomas

9:19 PM

@TRiG rofl nice

Flimzy

@Caleb: Suggestions for how to improve it?

TRiG

@DoubtingThomas Needs some context.

►

Caleb

I would rather see a question that side-steps the heated-opinion topic and asks about what christian doctrinal positions take a stance on involving secular law to back christian ethical/moral choices. There is lots of stuff to be asked along those lines and lots of different views that could then be questioned for their rational.

Flimzy

@Caleb: I've been thinking about asking a question along those lines, actually... wasn't sure if I should ask a second question, or edit that one. The basic question, which has come up in comments in that one, would be: What makes homosexual marriage unique among moral issues that Christians are happy to legalize, even though they oppose them?

@Caleb: Not that it would be worded precisely that way... and it might not even need to single out homosexual marriage.

@Caleb: Although, I'm not sure how to avoid mentioning homosexual marriage and still getting a relevant answer.

Caleb

I'm not going to throw a mod close vote behind that idea without doing more reading, esp not at this hour, but as a normal user I would probably support closing that and starting fresh with a more focused doctrinal issue that avoids the political framing.

TRiG

9:21 PM

@Flimzy And the answer, of course, is cultural rather than theological.

But people refuse to admit that, which is why you're getting poor-quality answers.

shrug

Flimzy

@TRiG: Certainly there are some cultural answers... I'm not yet prepared to say there cannot be theological answers... this being why I'm interested in asking such a question. :)

If I knew that a theologically sound answer did not exist, then the question would truly be non-constructive... as it would be essentially flame-war fodder.

Caleb

> For example if you fail to rapture the gentile believers out of original sin when traced through all be robots?

TRiG

@Flimzy Theologically sound? ;)

Flimzy

@TRiG: heh

@TRiG: "Theologically sound" would be an answer that is consistent within a theological framework. I think that is possible.

@TRiG: But what is clear from most of the existing answers is that the common answer(s) about homosexual marriage don't meet that criteria.

TRiG

@Flimzy Theoretically, yes. But I don't think it exists.

Doubting Thomas

9:25 PM

@TRiG that just made my day

TRiG

@DoubtingThomas I've been to only two concerts in my life. Both were Tim Minchin. And I'm going to another in June.

Flimzy

@TRiG: Well, it may not exist--on that topic. That's what I'm interested in learning.

Doubting Thomas

@TRiG haha nice

TRiG

@Flimzy Because it's not about religion. It's about the "culture war".

Flimzy

@TRiG: I suppose one "theologically sound/consistent" argument would be: All immoral activities ought to be illegal. In which case a person would also oppose the legality adultery, gambling, pornography, drinking, etc, etc, etc... (assuming they think those thins are also immoral), but because those things aren't on the cultural fore-front, they just don't get much attention.

@TRiG: Although I've never heard anyone actually make that argument... even though it would be, theoretically, a "theologically sound" argument.

TRiG

9:28 PM

@Flimzy Well, if internal consistency is all you care for.

Internal consistency is a good start, but I'm not sure it's enough.

Flimzy

@TRiG: I think such an argument would fall apart on other fronts, but at least it would be consistent :)

TRiG

@DoubtingThomas youtube.com/watch?v=QQ0G5Nik8iY

Be aware: There's plenty of Tim Minchin stuff which would seriously disturb you.

►

"Rock 'n' Roll Nerd" is probably the best introduction to his stuff, and has the benefit of not being particularly offensive.

Flimzy

@TRiG: So in your view, is there a constructive way to ask such a question?

TRiG

(I would post a link to my blog post "Tim Minchin's Perverted Love Songs", but my blog is currently down.)

@Flimzy I'm not sure. I failed, didn't I?

(Though I must admit I didn't try very hard.)

Flimzy

heh

I will continue to ponder.

TRiG

9:34 PM

I think you've got a problem here in that people are reluctant to admit, even to themselves, that their primary motivations are not theological. So they're making up theological explanations which don't make any real sense. Opposition to homosexuality is one of the "tribal markers" of a certain kind of Christianity.

14 mins ago, by Flimzy

@Caleb: I've been thinking about asking a question along those lines, actually... wasn't sure if I should ask a second question, or edit that one. The basic question, which has come up in comments in that one, would be: What makes homosexual marriage unique among moral issues that Christians are happy to legalize, even though they oppose them?

I think that brief, to-the-point question, with very little of your own commentary, might be the best way to go.

Flimzy

The problem with that question is it over-simplifies the issue. Someone could come back with "But many Christians do oppose strip clubs and adult stores, bars, liquor stores, cacinos, etc whenever it comes to a public vote or petitioning the city council, etc."

those just aren't debates on a national level, so they get less "big" news coverage

TRiG

@Flimzy Well, local politics can be remarkably petty sometimes, on any issue.

Flimzy

I still think homosexual marriage is sorta considered it's own class of thing... I just don't know how to explain that special class as distinct from the others.

TRiG

@Flimzy If you want to go further: trans issues are a special case again. Many people refuse to accept that trans people even exist.

Flimzy

That's an interesting issue that I think confuses many Christians even more... I've heard some say or imply that trans ought to be accepted, because it's viewed as essentially a medical condition, and we wouldn't discriminate against someone born without an arm, or whatever...

Of course similar arguments are often made about homosexuality as well.

The world doesn't fit in the nice "boxes" most people wish it did.

(I don't mean to say that homosexuality is a "condition", by the way)

Well, I'm going to get back to work. Thank you for your thoughtful input @TRiG.

TRiG

9:44 PM

@Flimzy Good overview on what it means to be trans.

Flimzy

Thanks, I'll read that.

TRiG

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Q: God created male and female.... What about those who do not fit in the box?

Often times I hear the argument that marriage is between a man and a woman, God made them male and female, (adam and eve not adam and steve ..etc). My question is for those who do not fit into the gender boxes we like people to fit into. In fact there are many variations of gender between the pol...

sexuality gender

@Flimzy Bye!

TRiG

10:11 PM

Another data-point for the question I never quite dare to ask on why Christians tell so many bare-faced lies.

Re: Your last paragraph on domestic violence. My understanding is that most domestic violence against lesbians is at the hands of former, male partners. This does count as "domestic violence", but it also contradicts the point you're making. Do you have any studies to back up your claim? — TRiG 1 min ago

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