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10:03 AM
room mode changed to Gallery: anyone may enter, but only approved users can talk
 
Congratulations! You're the second owner now @YouKnowMe
 
Take a bow!
 
Now, let's begin making that sophisticated algorithm, shall we?
 
What would be the medium of our communication?
 
10:16 AM
English
Once we make that algorithm, we will make updates and that, we will discuss with that algorithm as the mode of communcation
 
Ok
 
Remember that you did not post anything offensive that can be decoded even if the mods know the key to the Caesar cipher, okay?
So, I'm going to talk about that here which will reveal the shift
The shift was, as we both know, 7
 
🙄
 
Now, what you were doing is taking what you want to encrypt as the input and then shift by 7
What I had to do to decrypt was put the key as -7
 
Yes
 
10:18 AM
@YouKnowMe lol, don't worry
This caused some misunderstanding
We should be clearer from now on
Now, what should be the requirements of the algorithm we make?
How good would you consider yourself with number theory? I've heard that it has some good applications in cryptography
Also, while talking about cryptography, we'll use code names.
 
@RajdeepSindhu 0
 
@YouKnowMe omg same, lol
How much do you know about Alan Turing?
 
2%
 
Not bad
In his memory, you will refer to me as Alan and I will refer to you as Turing.
 
Ok
Alan
 
10:29 AM
Sorry bro, stupid internet
@YouKnowMe $\psi\omicron\delta\epsilon~\rho\epsilon\delta$?????
In short, let's just call each other A and T
 
Are you there, T?
 
Yup
What's the plan ,A?
 
Why was it $\psi\omicron\delta\epsilon~\rho\epsilon\delta$?
@YouKnowMe You don't need to call me A every time too, though, lol.
 
Joke
@RajdeepSindhu
What's the plan?
 
10:45 AM
@YouKnowMe You still here?
Sorry, had to go for a while there.
@YouKnowMe $\alpha~\pi\omicron\omicron\rho~\omicron\nu\epsilon$
How do I know you're not a kidnapper who has kidnapped Mayank and is now masquerading to be him and the message "$\psi\omicron\delta\epsilon~\rho\epsilon\delta$ was sent by Mayank when he saw you in your room?
 
@RajdeepSindhu Oops! You are right 🤫
 
@YouKnowMe Calls 911
Remembers that it's 100 and not 911
Re-dials 911
Cancels
Re-dials 100
Some Alan I am, lol
Anyway, let's get serious now, shall we, T?
 
Yup A.
 
I think we should begin by finding out all those things that we want the algorithm to follow and then work on developing it, mathematically.
 
Ok
 
10:54 AM
We will keep adding points to this list as we start remembering them and try to update the algorithm according to those new points.
I have a couple of things in mind that the algorithm should follow
What is the most important thing for an encryption algorithm to be successful?
Being hard to crack
How would one try to crack it at first glance?
By brute force
And by thinking of the algorithm as one of a few common ciphers like Caesar's cipher, Beale cipher etc.
 
Hmm
 
How many things should one need to know to be able to crack the code?
Let $n$ denote the number of things. So, $n\propto\mathrm{difficulty~to~crack}$
 
Yes
Network problem
 
For example, all one needs to know is a simple number between 0 and 26 to be able to decode a Caesar cipher
@YouKnowMe Yup
More the number of factors and more the range from which each factor can be chosen, the better the cipher
Also, it should be extremely hard for someone to crack the cipher even if they have a sample input and output
:55755983 You were right. 0 and 26 essentially perform the same function.
 
@RajdeepSindhu yes
 
11:00 AM
In the Caesar cipher, for example, if you have an output, you know that the letters representing the same words are going to represent the same words in the decrypt too
If you have BNBO as the output, you know that both the B's will represent the same letter in the decrypt too.
By the way, this was the code for ALAN with shift as $1$
 
@RajdeepSindhu I was gonna say that.
 
@YouKnowMe Nice :)
In the program I made, this is not the case
 
@RajdeepSindhu Neither in Engima
 
The output does not only depend on the position of the inputted character in the string of alphabets but also the position of it in the inputted alphabet.
Let me elaborate on that. It would give you a better idea of what I'm trying to say.
 
@RajdeepSindhu Ok
 
11:07 AM
@YouKnowMe Yup. To be honest, that's what inspired me to do so.
Let's assume that the input is ABCD
I have a slow network so it can malfunction any time
Now, the first letter is A
Let the position of A in alphabets be denoted by $x$ and in the inputted word be denoted by $y$. The output will be given by a function $f$ which is a multivariable function
The output is going to be a natural number denoting the position of the output in alphabets
For A here, $x=y=1$
Just like that

For **B** : $x=y=2$
For **C** : $x=y=3$ and so on
Let's say that $f(x,y) = x+y$
So, the output will be $[1+1],[2+2],[3+3],[4+4]$ = BDFH
That's how it can work
But we should also take in mind that $f(x,y)$ and $y$ should be sufficient to give a value of $x$
That will be when the output will be decryptable
Because if we have the output, for each character in the output, we will know the value of $f(x,y)$ and $y$ i.e. the position of the letter in the inputted word
 
Position of A in alphabets denoted by x. Which alphabets?
 
abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
These
That gives me an idea. We can make our own custom alphabets
Maybe based on the digits of $\pi$ or something, coooolll
 
@RajdeepSindhu plugboard.
 
@YouKnowMe Kind of. The functions are highly similar :)
I like that you've read about the Enigma.
Now, in the inputted and outputted string, the position of the alphabet i.e. $y$ remains the same
 
@RajdeepSindhu I understood this. I think that.
 
11:18 AM
We can change the position later on
@YouKnowMe That's great
Changing the position later on will make it even harder to crack
Man, this is getting so much interesting
Another cool idea :
I said that the output should be enough to uniquely identify the input, right?
It would be fun even if the output gives multiple possible inputs and only we know the "key" to know which input is real
That's an increase in the value of $n$ ($n \propto\mathrm{~difficulty}$)
But, it would be crack-able by brute force which is a con...
 
@RajdeepSindhu Can you explain this?
 
@YouKnowMe Sure, did you read that part where I define a sample $f(x,y)$ to be equal to $x+y$?
 
Yes
 
Good, that's the definition of $f$ we will work upon now.
Let's say that we have a sample output, say HJLU
First character (H) :
$y=1$
$f(x,y) = x+y = 8$ (8th letter)
$\implies x=8-y=7$
$\implies$ input character = G
 
Yes
 
11:28 AM
Second character (J) :
$y=2$
$f(x,y)=x+y=10$
$\implies x=10-2=8$
$\implies$ input character = H
And so on...
Here, as you can see, the value of $x$ is unique i.e. the output gives a unique input
 
Ok
Understood
 
What are your thoughts now?
 
Low level
Easy to crack
@RajdeepSindhu
 
Would you have said the same if you didn't know how it actually worked?
This particular one was low level, agreed but if we implement the other things too like our own alphabets and stuff, wouldn't it be more sophisticated?
 
@RajdeepSindhu Obviously Yes
 
11:40 AM
@YouKnowMe So, that's what we're going to do :)
 
It would be pretty hard if we add more variables like time,date,case.
 
@YouKnowMe Very true
Keep giving me these ideas of things to add
We should store these "factors" somewhere online where no one else but the two of us can access them
One idea is google drive
We can either make a common account
Or one of us can save it on his drive and allow access to the other
 
@RajdeepSindhu
If we create multi functions
f(x,y,.....)=>p(a,b,c,d,e....)=>p(1,2,3,4..)
Create many functions and specify which function to be used.
 
Note that down, note that down
:)
 
Something like this
@RajdeepSindhu
 
11:50 AM
Don't get it...
Maybe we can also use other complicated functions from number theory like the zeta function, gamma function etc. (I have no idea what they do, though, lol)
.
 
@RajdeepSindhu LoL
 
What exactly is happening in the image?
 
Box contains different options
Or function
Which would be specified by us, which option to take.
Like when time is 3:14
Take 3rd function from 1st box 1and 14th from box 2
 
It looks like $f_1$ is leading to $f_2$ which is leading to $f_3$...
 
Something like this
 
11:53 AM
OOOOOOO
That would be a hell lot of functions
And a huuuge program
and huuuge fun
:)
 
:-)
 
So, the boxes essentially represent sets of functions, right @YouKnowMe?
 
Hmm
This is just increasing possible outputs.
Which is bad for brute forcer.
 
Did you get inspired by rotors?
@YouKnowMe Please use "yes" in these situations. "hmm" makes it look more like you're thinking and less like "yes"
 
@RajdeepSindhu Yes
 
11:59 AM
@YouKnowMe I like your ideas :)
 
I have to go maybe for 1 hour.
:-/
 
Me too but for more
We'll talk later, T
We'll talk later, T
:)
cya, fellow Turinger
 
 
3 hours later…
2:48 PM
@RajdeepSindhu
A, What are we actually gonna do?
 
@YouKnowMe What do you mean, T?
 
Are you gonna make a program?
 
It would be highly tedious for us to manually encrypt and decrypt, considering that we are aiming for a sophisticated algorithm. Plus, if not this, what are computers for? :D
@YouKnowMe Once we define the function(s) and decide how to implement the points we discussed today, yes.
 

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