@AlexanderGruber: Bribery was very rampant in India during 1980-2000. But the problem has reduced greatly. The reasons are many: education and awarenes of citizens, privatization of many services, online access to many government services.

However one thing hasn't changed so far is getting a passport in India. It involved two steps where bribery is still common. One is when a police officer visits your home to do a verification and then approves the details mentioned in passport application. And next is physical delivery of passport by the government postman. Since people in India are desperate for foreign travel, no one wants any issue in these steps and they pay whatever is needed.

@amWhy, @AlexanderGruber: regarding cases of brutal rape, my own thinking is that there are people whose lives are so miserable that they have lost human behavior altogether. The body is human, but not their mind. Somehow we need to watch out for them and stay alert. In such cases prevention is the only option.

The Nirbhaya case led to many new laws and legal reforms. In particular courts gave verdicts in many pending cases of sexual harassment. However the incidence of rape did not decrease.

I had high hopes from the new government of Modi that they would ensure the hanging of the culprits as soon as possible. But believe it or not, it was the pandemic which forced the government to ensure that the death penalty is given. The government just couldn't take the risk of culprits die due to Corona.

@ParamanandSingh ahhh that explains things, that's around the time I had heard that.

good to hear the situation's improved.

@ParamanandSingh that's true. i suppose rope is cheaper than ventilators.

@AlexanderGruber lolool

@AlexanderGruber : on an unrelated note the problem of Corona has worsened too much in India. I don't know if there is a correlation, but the second wave started 15 days after the immunization programme was launched. People here had abandoned typical protocols like masks and social distancing way earlier like from Dec 2020 and yet Corona was in control. I am really skeptical of those vaccines.

Also why world got into vaccine research instead of focusing on medicine is not clear at all

A rather relevant number of infectious deceases were basically eradicated by vaccination (granted there may be other factors, too). Since many decades, likely more than a century, basically everybody starting from infants is systematically vaccinated against one thing or another (at least in various parts of the world). I do not know where the skepticism against vaccination in general terms comes from.

Deceases caused by viruses are generally hard to cure directly.

@quid: the case of Corona vaccine seems to be rather different from the more established vaccines for polio and BCG. And speaking for cure both ebola and swine flu got cured via medicines. No vaccine was developed for these and there is no need for the same.

Also my own skepticism is based on the recent events unfolding in country and not a case of general skepticism towards vaccination.

@ParamanandSingh it depends on which vaccine one is talking about. There are half a dozen if not more.

I don't know what you refer to when you say that Ebola was cured via medicine.

India has got two covaxin (bharat biotech) and covid shield (astra zeneca)

I mean there are medicines to treat both ebola and swine flu. I think Tamiflu for swine flu and remdesivir for ebola.

There may be other drugs with different names in different countries to treat these diseases

India is also planning to use vaccine developed by Russia for covid.

@ParamanandSingh remdesivir was developed for that but does not seem to work all that well, besides having various side effects. As a matter of fact there are vaccination programs against Ebola in the relevant parts of the world.

I don't know if the one developed by Pfizer is also under consideration

I am not against the vaccines and their research, but shouldn't some research be done for cure as well side by side.

@ParamanandSingh it is done.

There are not all that many actually efficient cures against viral deceases.

Ok, then I am not aware. Because there is no official information being released about it by government here. And the vaccines are being advertised right from the early times of covid.

There are even rather aggressive discussions related to this with very opposing points of view.

Yeah I know finding cure for viruses may not be easy, but at least some sort of relief can be provided by controlling the damage done by the virus. In the second wave in India, a large number of patients are needing ventilator support. This is very different from what was seen last year

You may or may not have heard in news, but India is now grappling not with shortage of ventilators, but rather the shortage is of oxygen needed to be fed into those ventilators

The situation is very very bleak

I have heard it in relation to other countries.

Even after diverting industrial oxygen for medical use the supply is well short of demand

Rather scary.

It's a complex situation when demand changes drastically and worldwide. It was interesting to talk. Sorry I need to leave now. See you!

Ok bye and take care!!

@quid I suspect that it is the fact that these diseases are largely irrelevant now that people are becoming skeptical.

I.e. "No on I know has ever had measles, and it can't possibly be that bad. On the other hand, vaccines give you AUTISM!!!1!1!!"

There is (1) a misunderstanding of how bad these diseases are, and (2) irrational fear about the risks of vaccination.

In some sense, vaccines have been too successful, as people don't often see the consequences of not being vaccinated. Not that the success of vaccines is a bad thing.

And, of course, politics got mixed into the Corona virus.

I live in an area where we are up to about 20% vaccinated, and we seem to have hit the limit of demand for vaccinations. We now have more COVID vaccines in Navajo County than people who are willing to make appointments to get jabbed.

:/

Some careless people in mine own area seemeth not to careth about the pandemic

I misprise this

êac yfel efne onscunian ðætte wanh¯ælð

@ParamanandSingh yes sir, i totally agree

i myself had interactions with a recently vaccinated person and got infected

@Anthony Then you got infected elsewhere, and find it convenient to blame it on a person recently vaccinated. People are vulnerable and prone to making cause-effect relations between two things close in time. But it is not rational to do so; it is a fallacy of reasoning.

@amWhy i am not against vaccination at all, infact all my family members are now vaccinated, it's just that i don't trust the vaccine given here

but as u said, it might not be right too..

@Anthony I understand there is much we do not understand yet.

@amWhy i could use that pharse in my astronomy book for the universe:xD

@Anthony :-)

@XanderHenderson, @amWhy: there is just no rational explanation given by scientists, doctors or government for the second wave happening in India. And that leads to various sorts of speculation by rumor mongers, media and people in general

@XanderHenderson that might be part of it, yes.

My own idea can be tested if people getting vaccinated follow some sort of quarantine for a few days after being getting jabs and I am requesting my friends to do so.

The government had recommended 2 days of quarantine after getting vaccinated, but majority did not follow that

@ParamanandSingh I understand, But the US has had 3 waves... We do not understand exactly why, but it is often associated, at least in the US: college students going back to school last fall, or Thanksgiving-Christmas gatherings, etc. But folk theories are just guesses, and affords folks the peace of mind that pretending a reason that makes sense, affords them, even if the "rumor" is actually risking their lives.

Of course, there are a number of vaccines in use around the world; In the US, we have two in use. The US Center for Disease Control, (CDC), is already acknowledging that at the very least, a subsequent "booster" shot 6-12 months after vaccination will likely be necessary, and possibly an annual Covid shot.

Hi, @quid ! Though you may have since left the chat.

@amWhy: from May 1, people above 18 years of age will start to get vaccines in India. And I have to myself decide whether to go for it or not. That's why need to get more information especially about all the safety precautions

Bit worried on that front.

@ParamanandSingh I understand. I'm scheduled for my first shot on April 30th. I'm comfortable with the two options available here. But there are many vaccines that have been developed, and I understand your concern. I'm not suggesting, in India, I know the best thing to do; the worst things I've heard in the US of the two options, is that the first, or the second shot, in each case, is best to schedule right before a weekend (or break from work). Some have no after affects, but some feel achy and

@Anthony Yes, and? Statistically, this is going to happen.

and wiped out the day after the shot. But I went through the same thing after taking the annual flu shot, occasionally. Part of that "after shot" response is due to the body's hard work at creating antibodies. But I can only speak to what I note here.

(1) No vaccine is 100% effective in protecting the person who is vaccinated. This means that even if you are vaccinated against a disease, there is a still a possibility that you will become infected after interacting with a person who is contagious.

(2) In addition to reducing the risk of infection, the COVID vaccines seem to reduce the risk of moderate or severe symptoms, which makes it more likely that a person who is infected with COVID (and contagious!) will have no symptoms. Thus the smaller number of people who do get infected are potentially more dangerous to others, as they are less likely to quarantine.

@amWhy hello! Indeed I did, but I'm back, though only very briefly.

@quid No problem!!

While vaccines reduce individual risk, they are far more useful on a society level, as they reduce overall risk, and provide herd immunity. That is, vaccines are a tool which bring down the $R_0$ of a disease. They don't 100% prevent the disease, but they make it a lot harder for the disease to spread.

Again, I'll add, it is virtually certain that "booster shots may be needed", and potentially an annual shot, to keep up with mutations etc.

@amWhy Yeah, this seems likely. I suspect that in 10 years, COVID is gonna be like the seasonal flu.

We're all gonna have to go in every year for another shot.

@XanderHenderson Yup... Se la vi.

Do you mean sest lah vie?

(as the Norwegians say)

@XanderHenderson Yes. And I probably missed on the correct French spelling, which is C'est la vie.

can i ask a question in general?

@Anthony You can ask.

Who knows if you'll get an answer...

(I charge $1 for hints, $10 for answers, and $10,000 for correct answers.)

i will be turning 18 very soon, any advice on life?

@XanderHenderson what is an answer that's not correct ;)

@Anthony Get a COVID shot. And then another 3-4 weeks later.

@XanderHenderson was gonna type except that:xD

@amWhy your views are almost always right, any advice from your side?

I'd just say: brush your teeth regularly and follow up regularly with a dentist; maintain physical activity throughout your life (even if only via walking). Don't take anyone you care about for granted. Also, never think you alone can change the world , but just as important, never convince yourself that you are helpless and powerless to do anything at all. Finally, take time to "smell the flowers", and savor every day of your journey, without focusing too much on the destination.

^^^^^ @Anthony Some of that is what I would have liked to tell myself, at age 18.

Yikes, I'm not terribly effective at "on the spot" advice... So much can be said. But for many folks, we only understand the "why's" of suggestions, until after the fact.

@amWhy My preference is not to give advice to young people. They ignore it, anyway. I prefer to give bad advice, which I know they will ignore.

:P

@XanderHenderson Hah!

"Smoke a lot of dope, have tons of unprotected sex, never attend classes, and certainly don't bother any of your professors during office hours!"

Hrm... I don't think that my bread is going to be ready to cook this evening... :\

I guess it is going to get a little bit of an extra ferment in the fridge overnight.

@XanderHenderson Hah! ;D

@XanderHenderson Sourdough?

@amWhy Yes.

It is cold inside right now (around 60°F). So the yeast is working slowly.

@XanderHenderson Indeed, but the outcome ultimately will be yummy!

@amWhy Indeed. And there was brie at the grocery store this morning! For the first time since I moved out here!

So dinner tomorrow will be bread and brie.

And probably a mushroom pate, as I have half a pound of mushrooms that need to get used before they turn.

@XanderHenderson Oh, yummy!

Do you have a good wine to go with?

@amWhy Good wine? In Holbrook? No. :(

But I have some not-terrible wine.

decoywines.com/Wines/Pinot-Noir

Okay, I need to pay attention to this next meeting.

Laters.

@XanderHenderson Hey, a non-terrible wine is good for me!

@XanderHenderson Latering!

@amWhy looks i am on a good path

sorry a bit off but @ParamanandSingh, this song 😍

Hello, @user!

Hi!

@user Quite an avid "golf coder", I see. Glad you're stopping in here!

@amWhy I'm not a mathematician :P I just stumbled upon this room by accident

@user No problem! This chat tends not to be about math... if you roll back to a few days. (Also note the chatroom description.)

Noted :)