TRPG General Chat - 2022-12-07

« first day (4451 days earlier) ← previous day next day → last day (523 days later) »

12:04 AM

Both DnDBeyond and Kobold Press have ADVENTure Calendars of special offers. Kobold has a new one every couple of days, Beyond has a new one each day plus the old ones are still available.

1:01 AM

@Someone_Evil I'd consider how an additional stat interacts with ability score expenditure, and how it would be leveraged overall.

For example: Bloodstained, a Castlevania style PC game, has a luck stat that governs drops and critical hit rate. It's with investing in for the crits even if you don't need drops. But if luck now governs crits, that reduces access to crits for the people not investing in it.

More concerningly: some classes can essentially mainline just one stat, so a wizard has points to spare for luck. Some need to dip into 2-3 stats to function adequately—can they spare a fourth? Ironically wizard still winds up best at loot.

Contrast to Elden Ring which puts Arcane as the loot stat, and also has it boost some spellcasting, resistances, and status effects. I read that as a loot stat and a status effect stat not being viable independently, so they got combined.

You may want to see if there's alternative resources players can devote to luck. In nethack, luck comes from currying favour with the gods, which requires genuine work and sacrifice (including literally) to obtain and maintain.

Hot RPG Questions

8

Q: Does an Antimagic Field suppress the ability score increases granted by the Manual or Tome magic items?

There are several "manual"/"tome" magic items that permanently increase a character's ability score and the maximum value for that score by 2: the Manual of Bodily Health, the Manual of Quickness of Action, the Manual of Gainful Exercise, the Tome of Clear Thought, and the Tome of Leadership and ...

dnd-5e magic-items ability-scores antimagic-field

1:25 AM

@doppelgreener Yeah, I'm familiar with a number of cRPG's luck stat, and how they have a number space which doesn't translate well to D&D (1% boosts don't exactly fly) and sure weren't planning to touch crits with this

@doppelgreener There are certainly concerns there, which would be shared with other additional ability scores

And I'm not sure how much a Barbarian would mind having another ability score they could dump

And this would make wizards not automatically good at looting, and there are a lot more single score classes which could dip into it

Thinking about this separate from numbers, there could be narrative ways to handle this. You can scour for loot, and when you do you can do it quickly, or quietly, or thoroughly, but you can't do more than one of those. Now it's a choice of what narrative resources you can afford.

It's possible just adding a scavenging skill would solve most of the overuse of investigation, but I'd still waffle at what ability to use

Maybe it's the pace of narrative we tend to have, but it'd very often be thoroughly

(must away, ttfn!)

2:19 AM

@Someone_Evil I’ve been sitting on a potential main site question about rolling checks for loot for a long time.

Can’t quite get it right though

@ThomasMarkov What does you usually do/have seen done?

And/or what was roughly the line of the question?

I’m trying to figure out where the logic of it came from.

I’ve used investigation checks before.

Then one time I had a player roll poorly and not find anything. He said “fine, I’ll take the body and search more thoroughly later”.

And I realized how often I was violating (and how often lots of other DMs were violating) the “don’t roll if there’s no chance of failure” rule.

Investigation checks had become loot generating rolls, rather than skill checks.

I think my original logic was that the challenge with looting wasn't to spot something (eg. Wis Perception) but rather to discern where something noteworthy would be hidden. That lead to a presence and once a player has chosen prof with Investigation in order to be good at looting/finding it's hard to change course

@ThomasMarkov That's maybe something I'm hoping to smooth over by changeing it to luck, now it isn't testing for whether you can find it, it's (on your luck) whether there's anything to be found at all

@Someone_Evil see, that’s what I’ve gotten away from.

Because players will game the logic of it.

Which that and how?

2:31 AM

I played with a party where no one had prof in investigation. After the first few encounters and finding nothing with our crappy rolls, we started stripping corpses and ripping out stomachs and esophagi.

@Someone_Evil “generating” loot based on the player rolls.

FWIW, to me this comes up for unplanned loot, and doubly unplanned places.

If the players can describe a method of finding any potential loot that cannot fail, then I can’t make them roll for it.

If there's logically be some coins (or something else) in a local, I wouldn't ask for a roll, just roll some dice to determine how much

It’s searching bodies specifically that I have the problem with.

@ThomasMarkov Maybe I'm not following you, but with luck you'd still then roll for whether there's anything there, without having to describe the exact method

2:37 AM

“DC 20 investigation to notice the secret pocket sewn into the inside of the dude’s pants…oh they’ve removed his pants and cut them to shreds searching for stuff”

“The scroll box I was going to have you roll to find falls out of the head you just removed”

@ThomasMarkov Maybe this goes to doppel's point, but do they always have time for that?

@Someone_Evil yeah, that’s the only time the rolls make sense, when there’s a time element.

2 hours later…

Hot RPG Questions

4:16 AM

6

Q: When do monsters not have average hp?

The Monster Manual (7) says: A monster's hit points are presented both as a die expression and as an average number. For example, a monster with 2d8 hit points has 9 hit points on average (2 x 4 1/2). The Dungeon Master's Guide (276) says: A monster's hit points have a direct bearing on its ch...

dnd-5e monsters npc hit-points

2 hours later…

6:11 AM

@ThomasMarkov No site is safe. If anyone's counting, it was probably less than 24 hours

4 hours later…

Hot RPG Questions

10:14 AM

2

Q: Can an Artillerist use their eldritch cannon as a focus?

I'm trying to parse out how to wear a shield, still be able to cast spells, and mitigate the cannon's abysmal walking speed in between encounters. Perhaps a shoulder mount, a la "Predator"?

dnd-5e movement spellcasting spellcasting-focus

11:01 AM

@Laurel Yes, it happened.

(Just realized you probably can’t see it)

2 hours later…

12:53 PM

One bronze badge away from 1000

@doppelgreener I think we're a site that is equipped to handle it through our usual controls, so no special policy is necessary for us, but it looks like things are headed toward a network level policy, which I am in favor of anyway.

Every so often, I see the vote count increase on my top scoring answer and get the false hope it'll hit 100 and get me that gold badge.

@Axoren Here's the process I just went through: "Oh, I'll see if it's worth a bounty" ... "Oh someone already bountied it" ... "This answer has been awarded bounties worth 200 reputation by Thomas Markov"

and one of you just bumped one of my answers to 10.

@ThomasMarkov So that earns you the Bronze for bounties?

@Axoren I was considering bountying your 95 point answer and saw that I had already done it before

95

A: Dealing with a Repeatedly Cheating Friend

You are in a toxic cycle with this player. The sheer magnitude of offenses and the effort they put into going unnoticed demonstrate forethought. This isn't something they just fell back into like it was an accident. This is a pattern of behavior akin to addiction. They asked for a second chance a...

Yeah. I think it peaked last year at 93 or something

1:00 PM

Anyway, there's Axoren's answer that is almost at 100, it's a good answer, upvote it if you havent already.

That question came at a perfect time when our table had literally been discussing similar toxic elements in our social groups, so a lot of that was rather at-the-ready.

One of our discord members is very versed in philosophy and psychology, so we end up going in-depth on some very deep topics, and morality is one of those big ones.

Another thing we talk a lot about is human behavior, which I'm very familiar with certain frameworks for. Makes running smart villains really fun.

@ThomasMarkov I was probably the one who flagged it. But it's still weird that they would try AI on this site

The real problem will arise when AI start asking questions and having us answer them.

@Axoren Honestly that would be less problematic, at least, that's my hot take without really thinking about it.

"How does it feel, meatbag? Now you're our calculator."

1:11 PM

@Axoren Oh, so basically my role at work?

"Come on, class. You're not going to have a meatbag in your pocket everywhere!"

@ThomasMarkov I don't recall what you worked in. I vaguely recalled religious services, but I might be mixing you up with someone else in this chat.

@Axoren I'm a statistician at a meat processing facility.

@ThomasMarkov Literally, a meatbag calculator.

Wow

And I fill in at church for the preaching sometimes.

The Robots will have a field day with you. Let's hope the robot uprising isn't for a long time.

For now, just AI-bots posing bad answers.

I kind of want to play a Warforged Poet, now. AI-bot Writer.

I could read from GPT-generated poems during combat.

2

1:34 PM

I think my favorite part about that AI answer is this: "However, without more specific information about the game system and the antimagic field in question, it is not possible to say for sure." Like, hey, stupid, if you were a person you'd know that all the information is readily accessible for free. AI - artificial incompetence.

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov you can be way smarter about it tbh

you can easily tell the bot what the system is etc. and vet the post first to make sure it's not complete rubbish

not that I'm advocating more AI posts, but this is definitely user error

@ThomasMarkov I feel AI written Qs automatically fall foul of Actual Problem

AncientSwordRage

2:01 PM

> As a super intelligent AI, how do I join a play by chat without being found out that I'm not a real human being?

6

> As an AI chatbot, how do I resolve interpersonal issues that only involve one person?

@Someone_Evil Sure, but we've got categories of questions that arent actually tangible problems at the table of play. Conceivably, an AI could ask such a question that isnt total garbage.

@Someone_Evil I thought Actual Problem wasn't a necessity?

> In [Specific Module] using [Specific System], in what ways can [Specific Class] fight [Specific Named NPC]?

I could see an AI asking a passing lore question.

2:12 PM

@ThomasMarkov Possibly better than others we currently have...

FWIW it isn't necessarily problem at table or in play, the bar is fairly low (up to hard to spot), but an AI (or other algorithm) generating questions purely for the sake of generating questions has issues

@Someone_Evil Of course, you cannot ask the AI for more details.

Honestly, you probably could.

I don't think it would be that hard to pipe in follow-ups, it would just need to be watching the question it asked.

Did anyone read the SciAm article I posted above about the AI paper?

19 hours ago, by NautArch

Scientific American article about having chatgpt write a post about itself and their attempt to publish it

Is that article written by GPT? Because that would be so meta.

2:20 PM

Haha, no they wrote the actual article.

But some very interesting issues brought up in it.

> All authors must be subject to repeated Turing Testing during review process.

Oh damn... GPT-Written Modules

No one tell WotC. They already don't pay writers what they're worth.

@Axoren I dont know, not having to work for WotC at all might be a net positive.

2:36 PM

@Someone_Evil Is the issue you're trying to solve that you always use investigation for'finding' loot?

@NautArch We're effectively using it for generating loot in places where it logically could be, but specifics weren't prepped

So not for hoards or other intended rewards

@Someone_Evil What do you end up using loot for?

Does loot include magic items, or is this mostly gold?

Admittedly that's mostly the Scavenging skill part, the hope is that luck can streamline a few other odd rolls

Also - do your players decide what skill/ability to roll or do you?

@NautArch Exceedingly rarely actual magical items (though I may have thrown out a common one or too), mostly coin (often just copper and/or silver) but also other curiosities (effectively art items and gems)

2:41 PM

Honestly, when I ask for investigation rolls for loot, the rolls aren't what they find, it's placement for how much each person gets.

Highest roll gets more than lowest roll.

And I've absolutely done Investigation (dex) for who gets it first :)

@NautArch There's a (IMO bad) habit for them to ask if they can roll specific rolls (often without further description), but I stick to it being my call. But I still want to respect precedence (as I mentioned)

@NautArch We seem to go with more cooperative practices than that, and either divvy it evenly or just have stuff in a collective pool

That's not awful, you can always adjust their request :)

@Someone_Evil Why not have DCs for loot value? It can either be a single check, group check, or combined value?

@NautArch By biggest peeve is "can I roll Insight on that?"

@NautArch I'm not trying to get away from DCs, I'm trying to limit Investigation proficiency's overvalue/overuse

If the loot is just money that they evenly split, why roll at all then? That way you remove investigation from loot as a thing and just use it forinvestigating.

Or just match it to another ability score that makes sense (similar to I think linksassin's question on adding a new skill)

It feels like your issue is the overuse for loot rolls, and your current solution is kind of oversized for that.

Dice as a tool for balancing whether anything is found, sometimes you'll find something, sometimes you won't

@NautArch I thought about that, I'm a touch unsure about which ability score(s) will make sense, but that seems fine

2:55 PM

Why not just roll a d20?

Unmodified, just roll.

Or percentile, I love me percentile dice

And I will admit there's a non-zero interest in tinkering with the system

hahahaha

@NautArch FWIW this is sorta doing the same thing, except there's the potential to interact with it (if a player wants to be good/favoured in it)

@Someone_Evil I'd agree, but comments from others around needing ability score management for different classes is a problem.

I do agree that the MAD classes have a much harder decision to make regarding investment

If a player doesn't invest, they'll have a luck modifier of +0 and no proficiency, so it's just a flat roll

@NautArch I asked for whether anyone had experience doing this, didn't I?

3:00 PM

Right, I'm just saying that I agree with the concern that it's a harder decision to invest for MAD classes 0 which puts them at a disadvantage.

oooh, wait!

AncientSwordRage

@Someone_Evil When has that stopped anyone on this site answering a question :p ?

If they care about looting they're going from hard to invest in Int to hard to invest in Luck

what if it is just a d20, but you introduce something later where you can improve it. Whether it's a 'feat' or 'training'?

@Someone_Evil although does it matter if more than one invests? Just have one partymember invest and everyone wins?

@AncientSwordRage <laughs and cries> one of our most difficult things to get users to remember.

@NautArch To a certain extent, but now I've made one more avenue/role a character can be useful in (or maybe split one off) which doesn't strictly seem like a bad thing

What do they use loot for?

3:04 PM

@NautArch I have thought about a Scavenging feat/feature, but I'm finding it fall apart in codifying

Just for luck things, making it an ability check already enables a lot of interaction which 'dumb luck' doesn't

@NautArch Lots of things, though admittedly some fraction is just kept (at least until some use for them is found)

Okay, just verifying that collecting loots leads to something they can do with it and not just general collection. Honestly, I don't know what to do with loot. I'm not a fan of magic shops selling items and I haven't figured out something they'd want to use loot for besides that.

@Someone_Evil I'm leaning much more on a feat for this. I think it'll simplify it. I get the desire to tinker, but not sure this is the right place for it.

I've often thought about a Cognitive Dissonance ability or skill. For when players do things their characters wouldn't - or say they're good and end up doing awful things.

The "Are we the Baddies" roll.

I think the system tells you you're supposed to change their alignment when they do that :p

don't say that word!

:D

@Someone_Evil I do this all the time. I dont know of a better way to handle it.

Im pretty strict about "tell me what youre doing, Ill call for a roll" with all the other skills.

3:20 PM

I prefer something akin to "can I get a read of their face or their way of acting?" with a full expectation that it'll be a Wisdom (Insight) check. In the same way that everyone expects a Dexterity (Stealth) check when they say they sneak down the corridor

That's fair.

I had a player tell me "uhhhhh...I think really hard about it" and I decided that was good enough, since sometimes that's literally how you figure stuff out.

The worst cases are when the players obviously don't believe the NPC (seemingly irrespective of it being earned) and they excitedly want an insight check to tell them that they think they're lying?

@Someone_Evil For this, I like to use insight checks to determine if my character believes them, even if I am sure the npc is lying.

But in those cases I often just roll for myself.

4:11 PM

How's everyone been? I just finished all of my finals for this semester and I'm feeling quite relieved

Only thing I have to worry about now is a presentation for my french class two weeks from now

But I've already gotten that done and over with, so now I just have to wait

4:53 PM

and also, all of you are too late to stop me! i am now microsoft office certified

3 hours later…

7:46 PM

@ThomasMarkov This starred message reminds me that we kind of do this at my table. I've had someone use Inflict Wounds to give themselves specific injuries to lie about being attacked by a swordsman.

@Axoren hmmmmm that's clever. I'll allow it.

The cultists in the Act I of the current campaign I'm running were using Inflict Wounds to crack people's chests open, so they could shove ritual gems inside of them.

The party had to be careful to remove the gems before using Cure Wounds, which would close up the gashes.

Is chat down?

The side went down for maintenance. It's back now???

@Axoren It was quick, but i got it too.

8:28 PM

Several sites are in and out.

9:05 PM

@Someone_Evil Can we get a private chatroom when you have a moment?

Or another mod, @ObliviousSage

Give me a second

3 hours later…

11:50 PM

@Axoren Isn't this kind of what Captcha already does? OK human, tell me which of these pictures have a bicycle in it ~~so that I can learn to identify bicycles~~

@Adeptus "Do it, human. Transcribe 'Fragile Existence' into the textbox. Know your place."

« first day (4451 days earlier) ← previous day next day → last day (523 days later) »

Transcript for

Dec '227

TRPG General Chat

Main chat room for tabletop role-playing games. Anyone can ask...

dice pen-and-paper roleplaying

join this room
about this room

00:00

06:00

12:00

18:00

all times are UTC

site design / logo © 2024 Stack Exchange Inc; legal

mobile