TRPG General Chat

12:01 AM

Chris Gardner asks on twitter about suggestions and interest for designing "a discord bot to manage a job/bounty board for an adventurers guild style game."

Hot RPG Questions

3:06 AM

5

Q: How do I calculate damage?

In W:TA how do I calculate the damage from an attack? As an example, consider Lina. Her stats in homid form are: Strength (1), Dexterity (2), Melee (3). She uses a pool cue (using the stats from a club on pg. 238) to attack an enemy. Her attack roll has a pool of 5 (Dexterity + Melee). She rolls ...

trogdor

3:28 AM

@HotRPGQuestions well first you have to go to a good therapist

Hot RPG Questions

3

Q: Is Flame Wisp cumulative with itself?

I cast Flame Wisp, than hit with a Strike. Now I have 2 wisps. What happens if I cast Flame Wisp again? The new one overrides the old one, I have 3 wisps The new one is added to the old one, I have 6 wisps (the old one regains, as I just cast a fire spell) As 2, but every time I hit with a Strik...

spells pathfinder-2e stacking

BESW

5:36 AM

94

A: What is the Oberoni Fallacy?

The Oberoni Fallacy is an informal fallacy, occasionally seen in discussions of role-playing games, in which an arguer puts forth that if a problematic rule can be fixed by the figure running the game, the problematic rule is not, in fact, problematic. The user Oberoni originally posted the idea ...

But Dracula... by MacaroniX. Only the Great Clown Pagliacchi can chase the vampire away. The thing is... you are Pagliacchi.

Meguey Baker wrote a twitter thread about hair, hair styles, and what it means about normative households now and then.

BESW

5:47 AM

INGKIT by Mitzi Tuquiero. A GM-less TTRPG by Mitzi Tuquiero about bloody hunters

Hot RPG Questions

7:38 AM

2

Q: What counts as “wearing and carrying” for the Robe of Stars?

One of my Players has the Robe of Stars and my question is now can he, for example, put a rabbit in his bag and take it with him to the Astral Plane, because he carries it in his bag? I would think not but I am not sure. The wording is: While you wear the robe, you can use an action to enter the...

dnd-5e magic-items

Akixkisu

10:52 AM

@BESW We need to separate which issues are table issues and which issues are system issues - as I said, sometimes the table issue is to use the wrong system.

But all too often dnd criticising does not do that separation where appropriate.

BESW

That's not the same conversation I'm having.

You're not wrong, as a general statement, but it's also not relephant to the specifics you're ostensibly responding to.

AncientSwordRage

@BESW This is very interesting

Akixkisu

@BESW ah I got a wrong impression about a pressumingly ongoing conversation then.

BESW

So far as I can tell you saw me describe, in detail, a problem that I had across two editions of D&D which I tried to deal with using both in-text and homebrew solutions for years, and which went away entirely as soon as I moved to a different system... and your response was to lecture me about how maybe it was my fault for not giving up faster.

AncientSwordRage

@BESW that twitter thread is extremely relevant to my current character! I really appreciate you sharing it

Akixkisu

11:00 AM

3.5e is incoherent, and overwhelming. The way it offers you options is bad.

BESW

That's not a conversation I'm having.

Akixkisu

@BESW I don't see you at fault. I see no blame there, so if I phrased things like that, then I'm sorry that I didn't articulate them well enough.

BESW

You've got two stars on blaming me and my friends for it.

19 hours ago, by Akixkisu

I think "you can't do that" is always a table failing. Sometimes that faling is to play within the balance of a system such as 3.5e.

If "you can change the game or leave it" is the solution to a problem, then that means the game was the problem.

And you dedicated quite a bit of text to describing how your successes with D&D mean that my failures with it must be unrelated to the system.

Akixkisu

I come from the perspective that a table's failures aren't its fault when their access to a subject is through material that fails them as well.

BESW

And now you're sorry "if" you misspoke.

I'm gonna go have dinner, and when I come back I'm going to talk to @AncientSwordRage about hair and households.

@Akixkisu "Always."

Akixkisu

11:08 AM

Yes always a table failure, but failure does not equal guilt, blame.

AncientSwordRage

@Akixkisu let's let BESW go get some food and maybe we'll talk about this another, much later on, time

Akixkisu

But let us stop here, I don't think this is a good conversation for either of us.

AncientSwordRage

Has anybody got some good suggestions on spells to get from either the shadow or the fey touched feats?

This is specifically for my Dwarven Warlock character Fin, she's only level 1 now but I'm planning ahead

Akixkisu

I think broadly the best options that it offers are bless, compelled duel, and hex. But It really depends on your concept and what you want to do.

(fey touched)

Shadow touched is complicated because it has no obvious choices.

Shadow touched has silent image and lots of flavour options.

If you know that you are running a low level campaign then colour spray is always fun.

Inflict wounds is rather costly, but it is also an option, but probably not for your warlock.

Disguise self and Illusiory script are both fun options, but there are other feats that give you better options for each.

False life and cause fear are okay, and Ray of sickness is a bad spell.

@AncientSwordRage How do you want to play fin? :)

AncientSwordRage

11:28 AM

@Akixkisu She's a GOOLock, and I have Hex, Eldritch Blast, Frostbite and Dissonant Whispers currently.

I definitely considered Bless, Inflict Wounds and Cause fear, but I'm not certain

Disguise self and Illusory script both looked fun as well, because she's the sneaky sort

I thought Bless was kind of amusing because I imagine it being a blessing from my patron, which is not how bless normally 'works'.

Akixkisu

In that case I think I would choose between Bless, Command, compelled duel or Misty Steps from a mixture of how universal of a toy the spells are compared to the situational ones.

I like them thematically and practically.

AncientSwordRage

I might be leaning towards Shadow touched, but only because it fits more thematically

Akixkisu

The more obscure options can be really enjoyable though :)

What race is she?

AncientSwordRage

21 mins ago, by AncientSwordRage

This is specifically for my Dwarven Warlock character Fin, she's only level 1 now but I'm planning ahead

Dwarven

Akixkisu

oops my bad :D

Do you know what kind of dwarf she is?

AncientSwordRage

11:33 AM

(custom lineage on a mountain dwarf though, so +2 con, +2 charisma)

Akixkisu

Hm with two primary race options you are already starting out pretty powerful, so that makes the more obscure options more appealing I think.

AncientSwordRage

See's also a tome lock, so shes gunna get extra cantrips, one of which will be Guidance

Akixkisu

Do you know what options to maybe avoid to not step on the other players expertise?

AncientSwordRage

@Akixkisu good question

it's early days so far I think

Hot RPG Questions

9

Q: Is changing prepared spells a 'benefit of a long rest'?

This problem came up during a post-game discussion in my D&D 5e campaign last night. It concerns the curse ability of the Rakshasa and how that interacts with preparing spells. In game we managed to avoid the encounter; to the relief of the DM, as he was unsure what ruling to make in this situati...

dnd-5e spellcasting rests curses

Akixkisu

11:45 AM

I think it would be a good idea to ask them about what exciting thing they want to do most and choose something complimentary if you have no clear goal in mind :)

AncientSwordRage

@Akixkisu good plan

Akixkisu

But Goolocks casting Bless is also pretty exciting ;)

@HotRPGQuestions Rakshasa are such a fun encounter option.

They fit so well in urban encounter design and intrigue/scheming based arcs.

AncientSwordRage

12:02 PM

53

Q: What inspired the D&D version of the Rakshasa?

Rakshasa have been part of D&D for more than 35 years, appearing in every edition. These evil magic cat-people are clearly inspired by the rakshas from Hindu and Buddhist mythologies, but they have elements which indicate another source as well: so far as I can tell, backwards hands are not part ...

dungeons-and-dragons monsters history-of-gaming

BESW

@AncientSwordRage Do tell!

AncientSwordRage

@BESW So Fin is a Mountain Dwarf with long plaited hair (appearance inspired by the ginger haired/redheaded dwarf in Sophie Campbell's tweet here). She's run away from home to seek adventure/avoid boredom.

She's been living on the streets so it's messy.... but I'm now thinking it's less because she does her own hair and more it was always a mother/daughter thing or maybe somebody else in the clan

so now I'm trying to work out the social/family dynamics of dwarf clans :D

BESW

Ooh.

AncientSwordRage

so yeah... thoughts are being had

not strictly going to effect gameplay but it's an aspect of the character I hadn't considered

BESW

12:22 PM

I did a lot of work on social structures and dynamics for various groups back when I was making worlds for D&D, but most of them have leaked out of my brain in the intervening years.

But if her community lives in artificial caverns, there's gonna be even more pressure for multigenerational dwellings because carving a new home out of the rock is more labor-intensive and risky than building one topside.

AncientSwordRage

@BESW yeah, and dwarves are long lived

BESW

That's not gonna influence population demographics unless their birth/death rates are skewed.

AncientSwordRage

I was trying to find out how average ages+birthrate effects how multigenerational support in a family unit

@BESW true

BESW

Also, reminder that ethnic enclaves are, outside of D&D-like weirdness, the exception rather than the rule. If you can break D&D's conflation of culture with race you'll get more cool and engaging options.

5

Maybe the cavern has drow whose ancestors were political refugees from the war between the elven gods.

Perhaps it's a stop on pilgrimages to a dragon-saint's tomb, and there are settlers from lands where draconic faiths are common who never returned home after pilgrimage, or who established businesses catering to the pilgrims.

How have those cultures integrated into the community's habits and structures?

AncientSwordRage

12:48 PM

@BESW I've not dug much into that, but it's open for development

BESW

At the very least, I suggest considering what makes your character's community different from other communities that might be assumed similar by outsiders.

AncientSwordRage

takes notes

BESW

No cultural/ethnic monoliths!

AncientSwordRage

takes more notes

this is all further complicated by the fact this is actually an urban fantasy where magic/non-human races are not public knowledge so Fin's 'homeland' is somewhere far away... I can well imagine people having lots of misconceptions

BESW

1:04 PM

I'm imagining an InCryptid/Cleveland Portal mashup.

(Both of which have major plot points revolving around people making wildly inaccurate assumptions about non-human cultures.)

AncientSwordRage

And we're back at Seanan McGuire :D

@BESW I'd have to ask the GM though

There's a lot of InCryptid books

BESW

1:22 PM

There are!

I've noodled on using them as inspiration for urban fantasy campaigns a few times.

Had an idea for a twosie about a cryptid in the 1960s making a news zine for his immigrant neighborhood.

AncientSwordRage

@BESW that sounds very fun

Thomas Markov

1:38 PM

Does anyone else get far more anxious booking flights than they do actually flying on them?

BESW

When we went on pilgrimage we used a travel agent and it was such a delightful experience we've used him for almost every flight since.

Thomas Markov

Thankfully my wife enjoys planning travel, so she handles things like hotels and flights for us. For flights I just tell her about when I need to fly out and about when I want to return, and she just tells me which airport to go to and when.

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov never had to

@ThomasMarkov that sounds ideal

AncientSwordRage

1:59 PM

@ThomasMarkov have you ever played urban fantasy?

Thomas Markov

@AncientSwordRage no

AncientSwordRage

2:11 PM

fair enough

Shalvenay

@BESW this makes me wonder who the first travel agent in history was...

BESW

2:27 PM

Oh gosh, probably somebody way waaaaaay back.

The Roman Republic had cities that made their money on tourists coming for their health spas, and it was a well-developed economy by then.

Akixkisu

When we reopen rpg.stackexchange.com/q/189343/44723 we should undelete rpg.stackexchange.com/a/189345/44723

Thomas Markov

I dont think we should reopen tbh.

It isn't clear to me that it's actually D&D 5e, and the user that posted the question hasn't returned to the site since posting the question.

AncientSwordRage

2:46 PM

@ThomasMarkov it's 100% 5e

the only supplement that contains Kaladeshi dwarves is for 5e

(because the kaladesh mentioned didn't exist before 2017)

Probably the reason it re-iterates it is because it's from a standalone supplement made by James Wyatt

I see these arguments were made by commenters before me

Thomas Markov

Meh, it's not giving me the review, so I cant vote on it anyway.

AncientSwordRage

@Akixkisu also if that was reopened I'd probably downvote and then write my own answer

Akixkisu

@AncientSwordRage That is fair :)

AncientSwordRage

Anyway, I voted to re-open

Trish

4:41 PM

I would vote to reopen if someone added the Tag.

@AncientSwordRage which noone has done yet.

@ThomasMarkov as is, it is still unclear, but someone should fix it.

NautArch

I wouldn't add it

Thomas Markov

Pyrotechnical's recommendation was to mark the answer, rather than the question, when things are less clear.

Personally, I think this is one of those situations.

Akixkisu

4:58 PM

How much more of the source do you need to see quoted? @NautArch

AncientSwordRage

@NautArch I would but I'm not going to get too involved as I've not kept up to date with DGtS

Thomas Markov

@Akixkisu attribute scores aren't particularly unique to D&D 5e.

Akixkisu

@ThomasMarkov They aren't but they exist in a clear context.

Thomas Markov

I just don't see that anything quoted there is uniquely 5e.

Someone_Evil

@ThomasMarkov Technically 5e calls them "ability scores", though that doesn't exactly apply to the question

Thomas Markov

5:10 PM

@Someone_Evil raises hands you got me

Someone_Evil

@ThomasMarkov I think the claim is that Kaladesh is unique to 5e (within TRPG context)

Akixkisu

There is a whole lot more than just Kaladesh in that question.

Thomas Markov

@Akixkisu Just nothing else that is uniquely 5e.

Akixkisu

It is the combination of terms and the confusion why this situation would be different than other situations within the system.

Someone_Evil

And the question otherwise makes sense as being 5e, even if parts technically could apply to other question

Akixkisu

5:12 PM

Answers will be able to point those out and justify why they assume dnd-5e.

And for that we don't need to tag the question.

We should simply open it.

Thomas Markov

@Someone_Evil Is this ever going to stop?

AncientSwordRage

@Akixkisu but then when I got to search kaladesh [dnd-5e] it won't pop up

Akixkisu

Probably not because they act within global se policy.

bobble

38

A: Is there a penalty for one's edit suggestion being rejected?

No, but repeated edit suggestion rejections from multiple users will cause your edit suggestion rights to be suspended for (n) days, where n is currently 7. Note that after a recent change, automatic rejections due to edit conflicts are ignored and won't affect the suggested edit ban mechanism. ...

Rejecting can give a weeklong ban, but it will expire

Akixkisu

Just our way to interpret that policy is different, so unless they read it (which I linked multiple times during rejection) I see no reason for them to change their behaviour.

Thomas Markov

5:15 PM

@bobble I don't think the edits are frequent enough to trigger that. Unless that's why they aren't particularly frequent.

bobble

75

A: Moderators should be able to manually ban users from suggesting edits

This is done: You can also lift an edit ban now: Note that this may not always work in the case of system-imposed edits (that is, if their recent edit history still looks lousy at the time you lift the ban, it might just get re-applied.) Usage guidance This was implemented for the following pur...

Mods can manually ban edits, but that is intended as a last resort

42

A: Too many of your edits were rejected, try again in 7 days

I just amended it to take into account your accepts. When deciding on whether we should ban or not, we now look at your last 7 days of activity. If (rejects - (approvals / 3)) >= 5, you will be auto-banned. Note that "rejects" is the count of rejections made by human users/moderators only, rej...

found a reference to a specific formula (though that's old)

Thomas Markov

Yeah, so they would have to have 5 rejected edits in 7 days.

We reject 1-2 a week.

Akixkisu

Sometimes even fewer than that.

Thomas Markov

Average of 1.5 edits a week for the last 9 weeks.

Akixkisu

So the system tolerates their behaviour, there seems to be no reason (to do more) beyond occasionally linking the modified rpg.se policy.

AncientSwordRage

5:20 PM

A moderator can still message the user (if that mod feels it is appropriate to do so, of course)

Thomas Markov

Or just turn off suggested edits since they don't actually contribute substantial edits.

AncientSwordRage

@Akixkisu I'm not familiar with the policy (but I get the principle I think)

NautArch

@Akixkisu I'd say a full sentence at least. Definitely more than just a statistic.

Thomas Markov

@AncientSwordRage The policy is when someone has a preferred pronoun you use it. It has nothing to do with how that user makes edits.

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov Oh yes I know that one

NautArch

5:24 PM

@AncientSwordRage I flagged for mod intervention.

Akixkisu

90

Q: What does the Code of Conduct say about pronouns?

Please leave any feedback or questions about this FAQ on this other post. Two weeks ago, we updated The Code of Conduct to directly address concerns over pronoun usage. We tried to anticipate likely questions, but… missed the mark by quite a lot. Based on Gareth McCaughan’s excellent post,...

support faq mod-agreement-policy code-of-conduct

bobble

The editor should be seeing this whenever they go to edit:

124

A: Decision on rejected edits should be displayed as a notification to the editor

Kevin implemented this as described below. One rejected edit will produce the following warning: That links back to the last edit that was rejected. If the editor never gets any edits approved, they'll see this every time they go to edit, until they're banned. If some are approved but many are r...

Akixkisu

@AncientSwordRage Rpg se modified policy of enforcement rpg.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/11633/…

AncientSwordRage

@Akixkisu I do remember that now

thanks

Someone_Evil

@NautArch I think TM already pinged for mod intervention :)

NautArch

5:30 PM

@Someone_Evil darnit, too slow!

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov talking of meta (sort of, tangentially) I had my first meta post, in memory, that lent itself to that P!NK song you mentioned a while back

Someone_Evil

And just as a general note for the room: a user needing to be repeatedly be pointed to guidance is an issue to bring up to the mods. Our actions on that aren't necessarily visible, and even less discussable. We'll appreciate both patience and digression.

On that note, Imma take that message of the star board. There's no need to broadcast this like that

AncientSwordRage

@Someone_Evil beat me to it

NautArch

@Someone_Evil Made another flag, happy to discuss if you'd prefer.

Thomas Markov

Moving along, I am working on a first draft for guidance dealing with questions where the system is underspecified. Should see something go up on meta tomorrow or wednesday.

Akixkisu

5:38 PM

@ThomasMarkov Are you going for faq ready or is this more of a let us draft something approach?

Thomas Markov

@Akixkisu I wanna shoot for something that's pretty good, based on existing guidance, and see what the community wants to fill in.

Akixkisu

Neat.

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov that sounds good

Thomas Markov

Like, go for 70% done or better.

And Im totally open to "thomas this is trash rewrite this"

The "what is good evidence" bit will be quite easy to nail down, because it's just all the things we created exceptions for.

Mention of and quotes from rules texts, mention of system specific tools

Below that, we have sort of "second tier" evidence, where an expert can say with significant certainty "yeah that's this system because [two or more pieces of evidence that aren't just rpg tropes]"

Like if a question mentions "bonus action" and "Circle of the Land" and asks about some feature or interaction, we can say "yeah, that's almost certainly 5e, it would be really surprising if it wasnt".

But like, if the best we've got to go on is "wizard" and "cast a spell", there's nothing to go on there.

Does that make sense, anyone?

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov what would you guidelines say to do about that Kaladeshi Dwarf question?

Thomas Markov

5:51 PM

@AncientSwordRage shrug emoji

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov hmm

Thomas Markov

The only thing in my estimation that isn't system-ambiguous is the setting, Kaladesh, but I've run games in settings from different games before.

AncientSwordRage

3 hours ago, by AncientSwordRage

(because the kaladesh mentioned didn't exist before 2017)

Thomas Markov

+1 Wisdom isn't unambiguously 5e

AncientSwordRage

" it would be really surprising " if somebody backported something from 2017 for an older system

Thomas Markov

5:53 PM

Yeah, I get that it's unambiguously a setting made for a 5e supplement, but I dont see anything in the question to tell me they aren't just using the setting material for a different edition or game entirely.

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov I get that, but I'd find it very surprising I guess?

Thomas Markov

I'd find it surprising too, but not for the reason that compels me to put a pin in 5e. "I'd be surprised it isn't 5e because of the evidence in the question" is, to me, quite different from "I'd be surprised it isn't 5e cause, like, why would anyone pick up this 5e setting and port it to something else".

AncientSwordRage

It's not like somebody taking a 5e Eberron thing, and backporting it to an older edition - because Eberron existed as far back 3.5e

@ThomasMarkov I'm assuming them mentioning Kaladesh in the question is the 'evidence in the question'

but this is a) why I didn't stick my oar in, and b) why I'm looking forward to seeing your proposal on meta

illustro

@AncientSwordRage but even with a setting like Ebberon there will be setting specific clues that can pin it down to a particular edition (primarily because WoTC likes using setting defining changes to bring in a new edition, see the first and second sunderings for the Forgotten Realms)

Thomas Markov

I can't wait till 6e/5.5e comes out and I get to atone for my sin of defeating the policy as I drown in arguments about which system it is because the next iteration will almost certainly be more of a patch than a new system.

AncientSwordRage

6:01 PM

@illustro what's to stop somebody using D&D 5e content (which would include setting defining changes) in a pre-5e game of D&D?

Thomas Markov

JK, I have more faith in the community than that.

illustro

@AncientSwordRage Nothing, but at that point, the person knows they are using something from another version of the game, and they are purposely presenting that information and not saying "ohh btw this is for version x"

Could it happen, sure, would it cause harm if we made an honest mistake misinterpreting it? No, those happen all the time when people are writing answers

Thomas Markov

@illustro I left a comment, but maybe you can explain it here?

AncientSwordRage

@illustro how does that differ from the kaladesh question?

@MikeQ I saw your comment before you deleted, and that is definitely true, and something I should have considered

Thomas Markov

Are you saying in your answer that I can change my prepared spell list as long as the DM determines that my choices are disadvantageous?

illustro

6:05 PM

@ThomasMarkov yes, or at least "neutral" choices

Thomas Markov

Okay. That's why I downvoted.

illustro

Gaining a benefit is about getting an advantage from doing the thing, it's not about doing the thing itself

I can do exercise, but I gain no benefit from the exercise if I eat a fully laden dominos pizza while doing it

Thomas Markov

@illustro I beg to differ.

AncientSwordRage

@illustro WHAT? Why did nobody tell me!?

Thomas Markov

I did exactly that on more than one occasion when I was swimming in college.

Swear on my life, you just invented a totally outrageous scenario that I have actually done, and you even got the pizza joint right.

illustro

6:09 PM

@ThomasMarkov ans you were in a particular situation where you would have gained an advantage from doing so (it allowed you to exercise more than you would normally be able to without passing out due to lack of calories for your body to maintain the level of exercise you were doing)

I on the other hand, am an overweight man who barely does more than 1 hour of exercise per week

AncientSwordRage

@illustro What you're saying is that if you were Thomas's DM/PT at the time, you'd have stopped him from doing so?

illustro

exercise is of no benefit to me if I use it to justify the consuming of 3000+ calories of pizza daily

I used the pronoun I very intentionally there

Thomas Markov

@illustro This is getting pretty weird. I use to get premature atrial contractions when my blood sugar would drop too quickly so I had to keep food on the pool deck for if I felt my sugar plummeting.

illustro

@AncientSwordRage No, calorie loading in specific sports situations or for specific medical reasons is advantageous

MikeQ

Pizza eating contests are a sport

AncientSwordRage

6:12 PM

@illustro true... but I was trying to follow your example :p

Akixkisu

@illustro idk, I think you'd get to eat an awesome pizza without gaining substantially more weight than if you didn't do the exercise.

illustro

@ThomasMarkov Apologies for making it wierd. I'm trying to use it as an example that the same actions done by different individuals are not necessarily advantageous

AncientSwordRage

@MikeQ I need to do more sport then

Akixkisu

I like what sci fi author scalzi wrote about it, I think last year.

illustro

@Akixkisu But if I'm eating that pizza every day I'd argue it's no longer "awesome" but mundane

:P

Akixkisu

6:13 PM

He has no illusions about losing weight by exercising, but instead he gets to eat more via exercising.

Thomas Markov

@illustro You must have subtle-cast clairvoyance

@Akixkisu This is me.

Akixkisu

whatever.scalzi.com/2019/12/26/thoughts-on-a-year-of-exercise

illustro

@Akixkisu I know plenty of people who think that exercising alone will allow them to lose weight...and then are disappointed when they continue to gain weight. I also know a number of people who eat 4000+ calories per day just to keep up with the amount of exercise they do (one lad cycles 50km per day as an optional part of his commute)

Thomas Markov

@illustro "50km per day" yep that'll do it.

illustro

@ThomasMarkov I was also very good friends with someone who did rowing in college...I'm familiar with the amount of calories sports people and other athletes need to consume, and made a logical leap that you fell into that category

Thomas Markov

6:18 PM

@illustro Yeah, my target was around 7000 calories per day.

illustro

@ThomasMarkov Yes...it's quite disgusting how much that guy loves cycling. Did I mention that detour is optional....

Shalvenay

@Akixkisu yeah, I can only imagine the kinds of meals some of my chars eat given how physical they are

@illustro is this like dedicated bike paths/trails? or is this 50km in traffic?

Thomas Markov

Public education on nutrition seems to be pretty abysmal here in the states.

illustro

@Shalvenay when he was in Oz, this was 5km to work (the short route) and 45km back from home (the scenic route) on regular roads. Now he is back home he does it more on dedicated bike paths

NautArch

@ThomasMarkov We don't own a scale in our house, nor do we count calories.

illustro

6:21 PM

@ThomasMarkov It's pretty abismal in most places (I'm in Europe), because of the proliferation of shows that empasise exercise over calorie restriction

NautArch

Emphasizing exercise over calorie restriction is a pretty solid emphasis.

illustro

Losing or gaining weight is usually a function of calories, except in cases where you are doing extreme amounts of exercise. If you are doing "recommended" amounts of exercise for a non-sports person, then you won't lose weight.

Thomas Markov

Im pretty outspoken about being in to the fitness thing, so I get a lot of questions from friends, and far too often I have to say "it's not your fault you don't how this works, but now you do, and here's some resources to teach you more and help you take control, now that you have the knowledge to do so"

illustro

@NautArch Depends on the goal and the specific circumstances. If you are eating 2500 calories per day and gaining weight, then you need to restrict your calories. If you are an average man, eating 1800-2000 calories per day and not doing exercise, but gaining weight, then you need to exercise.

NautArch

The problem is weight loss isn't really what's important. Burning lower weight fat and introducing higher weight muscle shouldn't be seen as 'negative weight gain.'

@illustro I'm very much against using calories in this manner.

illustro

6:25 PM

@NautArch Yes absolutely...but in order to gain muscle mass you need to do some pretty specific things...not just do 30 minutes of running per day

Thomas Markov

@NautArch This is me. I'm targeting 0.5% weight gain a week until I feel like I've gained too much adipose tissue.

Helwar

@NautArch negative weight gain?

NautArch

Making better eating choices and exercising for health is a much better way of looking at it.

Thomas Markov

@Helwar "the bad kind of" weight gain

NautArch

@Helwar ^^

Helwar

6:25 PM

since when is muscle mass bad?

NautArch

"Im not losing weight!" But that's not important - what important is you are becoming healthier.

2

Helwar

I mean, unless you are using steroyds or something

haah

NautArch

@Helwar When someone says "I want to to lose X pounds" and then end up gaining weight because of muscle. They're looking at a scale, not at themselves or what they're doing.

Helwar

well yeah... I'm trying to lose weight, I lost like 5 kgs in a week, lost 2 in the last 3

it feels shitty

NautArch

@illustro Not necessarily. If you havent been running, you're going to build up muscle as well as lose fat.

Helwar

6:27 PM

so I can see people thinking it's bad if they had a set number in sight, instead of health

Akixkisu

@NautArch Yes, and for that matter counting coloric availability is fantastic, but approximations with kcal and specifically understanding your macros and micros is the most efficient way to do that. But you can also achieve a lot without doing that.

Thomas Markov

@Helwar 5 kgs in one week is probably too aggressive for anyone, the current recommendation for healthy and sustainable weight loss is 1-2% of body weight per week.

illustro

@NautArch It really depends on your health situation and how quickly you try to lose the weight. There are significant negative health consequences for carrying excess weight. (I work in Life and Health Insurance looking at these types of things on a daily basis)

Ultimately are bodies are energy machines, and are very good at storing excess energy for future use (ie fat). You can use that fat in two ways: eat less than your body is consuming, or exercise more than your body is consuming

Helwar

@ThomasMarkov I didn't do anything crazy, just started eating healthy, didn't even do much sports. It's just the very first few kgs are easier to lose

illustro

Most people don't have the time to do the latter, and thus calorie restriction is the only way to lose that weight

Akixkisu

6:28 PM

@ThomasMarkov 1.5kg of that might be glycogen repository or liquid repository, so the "loss" is much lower than that even if the sclaes says 5kg.

Thomas Markov

@Helwar Yeah, it's not uncommon for the first couple weeks of a calorie restriction to yield greater than expected weight loss as glycogen depletes.

illustro

Yeah, 5kg in a week is not good

Helwar

yeah I was not aiming for that

illustro

When I lost 20kg, I was averaging 0.5kg a week

Thomas Markov

@Akixkisu Yeah, we're on the same track

Helwar

6:29 PM

it's just the impact of the start of weight lose

illustro

(went from 117kg to 95kg)

Shalvenay

@illustro to be fair -- many built environments are set up in a way that actively discourages folks from integrating physical activity into their everyday lifestyle. (i.e. they're hostile to active and public transportation both)

NautArch

@illustro One shouldn't try to 'lose weight quickly'

@Shalvenay Or integrating healthy foods.

illustro

@NautArch Oh, I never advocated losing weight quickly!

Losing weight too quickly can have really significant negative health effects

and also set the person up for failure because they haven't built the habits

that are necessary for longer term weight maintenance

Shalvenay

@NautArch yeah, access to produce and the ability to obtain/store/prepare things in bulk are luxuries not everyone has

Thomas Markov

6:32 PM

That said, the best way to start getting into physical activity is to do something and make a habit of it. Too often people try to go from sedentary to cross fit champion the first week in January, and it's far too great a change in lifestyle to reliably make the habit change.

NautArch

Okay, I was just replying to your statement of "how quickly you try to lose weight.

illustro

@NautArch Yep, which is why most people now don't have the time to do it (eg they live such a distance from work they have to drive, or live somewhere (like a lot of the US) that doesn't have shooping facilities colocated with where people live (thus necessitating a car to get food)

Thomas Markov

I recommend that anyone who isn't exercising now examine their day or week, and find 30 minutes a few times a week to just go on a walk.

illustro

@NautArch I don't think I used the word quickly...if I did that was certainly in error, but I wasn't advocating anything quickly, just that losing weight is about limiting calories for most people

Helwar

@ThomasMarkov I do that with the dog.... Wich is not so useful because she wants to stop at every tree and every corner and every stone xD

Thomas Markov

6:34 PM

@Helwar Body weight squats while she...squats

Helwar

@ThomasMarkov Hahahaha

Or longer walks, she would not complain

NautArch

@Helwar Can the dog go off leash? Hiking with dogs is amazing.

Thomas Markov

Here's an idea: Play Walkies with Grim a few times a week.

Helwar

@NautArch I'm a first time dog owner, she's eleven already but I never got to teach her proper manners.... She is not good with most other dogs, I prefer to have her leashed just for safety

I sure learned what not to do if I there is a next one

NautArch

That is incredibly important!

Helwar

6:41 PM

@NautArch what is?

NautArch

@Helwar Learning what not to do :)

Helwar

oh! Yeah!

NautArch

My uncle currently has a puppy that they seriously can;t handle and we're trying to see if my mom can take it or if we add a third.

Helwar

@NautArch My thing was a combination of me being a new "parent", and my family disobeying everything I asked them to do/not do with her

NautArch

6:59 PM

@Helwar Yeah, if everyone isn't all-in, it's incredibly hard to train. Consistency is key.

My aunt and uncle have a pretty poor track record with dogs, and they just got a new one. Sent it away to be trained and got it back. Havent done anything to continue supporting the training and then my uncle got hurt and my aunt wants nothing to do with the dog.

They've hired a dog walker.

Helwar

it's a constant struggle with my mom, it doesn't get into her head that the dog is not a human. If you give her food, she's gonna try to get more. She gives her food "so she stops bothering her", thus perpetuating the circle. And then she gets mad when I do give food to my dog, as I don't care if she bothers me, wich she doesn't because she knows I only give when I want, no matter the begging

NautArch

It'd be great if the review queue didn't show how many total votes something has. I think the volume of votes makes a difference in decision making. I'd bet things sit at 2 deletes/4 close etc because folks don't want to be that last vote.

@Helwar Protip: Don't give human food at all if you don't want begging.

Helwar

@NautArch Yeah I know. I do give her human food, wich I know it's not a great thing to do... but I do not give her anything unhealthy for her (pieces of meat, mostly), and I agree with the consequences (that she might beg for more), but she doesn't because I'm consistent, I don't give her anything until I'm done myself, and then I share, so it is a one time thing, no more is coming, She knows.

NautArch

@Helwar Or, even better, it's okay to give it, but put it on their bowl.

Just don't feed from the table.

Hot RPG Questions

7:15 PM

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KorvinStarmast

8:39 PM

@NautArch Plus many; amen.

Helwar

@KorvinStarmast Hey sorry! I didn't see this! Thank you! The game is going OK-Ish, I merged new and old characters last session, and kinda turned them into the suicide squad, an unhinged politician collected "dirt" about them and forced them into doing their bidding (I don't plan on this situation to last, said politician is unhinged so.... xD)

@KorvinStarmast yeah, I talked her about Mutants and Masterminds and Masks (I know others exist but I haven't read them :/ )

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Helwar

She was turned off of the hobby for the moment at least, too much sitting for her (she said)

BESW

11:31 PM

Apr 13 at 11:36, by BESW

> Cryptid (Mis)Communication is a role playing game to be played outdoors, at a blurry distorted distance. In it, you and your friend both pretend to be cryptids (if you aren't cryptids already) who just want to catch up. The problem is, if you get too close, you won't be all that mysterious anymore, so you have to keep your distance. To communicate, you need to shout across the field or the parking lot or the abandoned amusement park where you've found each other.

Not all rpgs are sedentary! Markov mentioned my own “get out of the house” game above.

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