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12:04 AM
@screamline See above. So where is the coercion, the check? It is one-way. Only a querent can wield it on their own, in the current system. They can express themself by marking an answer as accepted and enforce their chosen option to rise to the top to hold the majority in check - why should they be uniquely entitled to that? That is what I would like to see in that answer.
 
@Akixkisu In all cases, we have a chaotic effort that results in an answer on top. Voters are sometimes whimsical in their choices ... 😉😉... 'the wisdom of crowds' is oversold, in terms of value given its cousin is the will of the mob. 😮 It's one of the weaknesses of the Stack methodology ...
But it's free.
 
@KorvinStarmast It takes a lot of time, one of the highest goods :)
And hopefully, it feels like quality time - like roasting coffee with a loved one "for free" or digging in the soil to plant something "for free" :)
Yesterday the last roses, for this year, opened up in our garden - watering them almost every day was a pleasure.
 
@KorvinStarmast I know that I, personally, don't need anything more than helping other people; OTOH, I'm very susceptible to chasing shiny badges, the Stack has taught me.
 
@nitsua60 I blame pokemon for that :D
 
@nitsua60 yeah, likewise :P
 
12:16 AM
I never cared for badges in organisations- or credentials, until I had to. But I did like the thought of earning them in games. Somehow those badges appealed more to me.
 
Somebody let me know when this whole meta thing blows over, okay?
 
12:37 AM
@BESW will do
 
@nitsua60 I think Thomas is our New Nits, insofar as Badge Chasing 😁
 
12:55 AM
@Akixkisu I fear we're talking past each other, and I'm not sure what more to say that won't have us chasing each other in circles. There is but one top spot. In some nontrivial percentage of cases, the current pinning system permits a querent to override a tyrannical majority and take that top spot. In a no-pin world, a majority -- even if substantively incorrect -- could take the top spot by force of numbers, cult of personality, will of the mob, etc. etc.
if you don't see coercion in that, we're having different conversations.
@KorvinStarmast I agree; if there's a difference between the accepted answer and the highest-voted answer, I don't want to have to slog through a bunch of noise to figure out which is which and why that happened.
 
 
9 hours later…
10:18 AM
hm, we had a question about the loss of the old WotC forums... you think one about the White Wolf forums in a similar manner, about their loss, could be on topic?
16
Q: Are the WotC archives of d20 Character Optimization forum forever lost?

apacayI was looking for the Wizard Handbook but all the links were broken. Somewhere on the handbooks of other classes (on other forums) I saw a This was archived by WotC, here's the link But the link leads to the welcome page of WotC (since it's broken). Is there a way to get all that info ba...

it's not exactly the one I remember, but close
 
10:34 AM
@Trish It could be on topic.
 
but it might be super opinion based if asking for the impact and might be super hard to answer to ask what retains of the loss
 
10:56 AM
0
Q: Formating Bug with supertext being ignored?

Trishin a recent answer, I used the following (simplified) code snippet: [cleartext argumentation] <sup>4, 6, 8</sup> > [Blockquote from source] <sup>6</sup> However, for some reason it parses into In later generations, the outspoken rule becomes that only at character generation one can obtain rit...

 
@Trish Oh absolutely, it all depends on what you are asking. It could also be off-topic.
It is just not categorically off-topic.
 
11:48 AM
@Trish If you have a particular question, and would like to workshop, don't hesitate to ask.
 
12:01 PM
@AncientSwordRage Im not sure this is actually an RPG question.
 
@ThomasMarkov I'd like it to be an RPG question though
I know "Why did the game designers make light hammers throwable?" isn't going to fly, as thats designer intention
 
@ThomasMarkov It seems like a standard reality check question.
 
but "What inspired this RPG thing?" is on topic right?
 
@ThomasMarkov it works both here and on a history stack
 
So "is this something that D&D has picked up from historical precedent" is a designer reasons question.
 
12:03 PM
What inspired is tricky...that's dangerously close to intent.
 
The only way to know if a particular historical item inspired something in the game is for the game's author to tell you that it did.
 
But is there a historical precedent for this rpg item seems legit.
 
But, "is there historical analog to this rpg item" isnt actually an RPG question.
 
It's a history question about an RPG concept, but RPG expertise has nothing to do with it.
But asking if something inspired an RPG concept is 100% designer intent.
 
12:07 PM
@ThomasMarkov it takes an RPG expert to know when it was first added, and when it became throwable
 
A historian with rpg expertise could certainly do the trick ;)
 
Because it requires you to either draw a speculative connection or to find a designer statement.
 
from there you can say "The picture in edition X, actually looks throwable/like this weapon"
 
@AncientSwordRage But you have to speculate if the connection you are drawing between those two things is what the designers had in mind.
 
From my understanding we never made reality checks off-topic, so I think this is on-topic.
 
12:08 PM
@ThomasMarkov you can still make an informed answer though, right?
 
@AncientSwordRage I mean, if you can find a designer commentary that talks about it, yes.
 
@Akixkisu It would be really strange to make them off-topic, because then the question 'is this rule/item/trait cinematic' would somehow be considered a non-RPG question.
 
@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica yeah, I think I agree with that.
 
Id prefer removing the question asking to speculate about what inspired the concept.
"Is there an historical analog to this idea" is a much better question.
 
Certainly an edge case, amending it a little seems like the best way to approach it.
 
12:10 PM
@ThomasMarkov What if I had asked "Are Javelins based on real weapons?"? I bet that wouldn't even be questioned ... because obviously they are based on real world weapons.
that wouldn't need commentary, right?
 
I think it's a better fit at history, but I'm not going do anything about that. But if the "was this inspired by something" remains, Ill vote to close because its a textbook designer intent question.
@AncientSwordRage Yeah, that would technically still be speculation, and Im quite confident theres no actual statement to the effect of "dnd javelins are based on real javelins".
 
@ThomasMarkov same, I bet nobody thought they'd need to justify them
nor swords, axes... bows... etc
I ended up asking "Why does D&D say I can throw this hammer?" when what I really want is "What does a sensible throwing hammer look like?"... that last question is a better fit over on World Building though.
 
Do you want to know why D&D uses the specific item or do you want to know if the specific item would work in reality?
 
Sure, but I would still observe that apart from a designer statement, you cant definitively prove that the intent was to copy real world objects.
In fact, with crossbows, there's a good case to be made that the designers did not intend to emulate the real world cross bow. Fire a heavy crossbow once every six seconds? Yeah right. A profesional crossbowman can maybe fire 3-4 bolts a minute witha heavy crossbow.
 
@ThomasMarkov 1minute turns
 
12:17 PM
@Akixkisu I really want to know what it's supposed to look like
but I can't think of a way of phrasing that
 
@AncientSwordRage Are you more interested in the narrative description or the real life application?
 
@Akixkisu are they necessarily different?
 
Not necessarily, but I think they would be different in this particular case.
 
@Akixkisu right, the fact they are different in this case is interesting to me
 
I think there is this core-concept of an abstract item category.
And one picture describes the abstract category of all items.
 
12:20 PM
@Akixkisu that seems like a side problem?
 
It is not necessarily a representative description of the particular item.
 
@Akixkisu the picture is me saying "Look at this, how is this throwable? That can't be what the weapon actually looks like"
 
Exactly.
 
but all light hammers in D&D are throwable
 
This is just a hammer that describes the category of these hammers.
 
12:21 PM
Technically all hammers are throwable.
in D&D and in real life.
 
And it is one that would show really poor results.
(I would certainly not try to throw it)
 
@ThomasMarkov ok, calm down thor.
 
But if I think of it as an abstract stand-in, then I can suspend that image and think about a hammer that would be more suitable for throwing.
 
@Akixkisu what does that hammer looks like?
 
I think the sports category already gives you good insight into modern throwning hammers, but there is certainly room to ask a historian with expertise in that area for insight into the concept of throwning hammers during a particular time-period.
 
Unfortunately, I don't know much about them.
 
@ThomasMarkov is my edit to the last paragraph any better?
> So, is throwing a held hammer (not the sports item that resembles a Meteor Hammer, nor a throwing stick like a Rungu or Iwisa) something added in 3.5e to an existing unthrowable hammer, or do throwing hammers go further back to a historically accurate weapon?
 
I know enough to see that the depicted image is absurd as a throwing weapon.
 
It would have to be pretty light, the 13 pound hammer in that video makes the strongest men on the planet look kinda silly.
 
"Brian has a real affinity for trees, he is kind of a tree himself" is a good line.
 
12:31 PM
@ThomasMarkov having to extend your arms is no joke
@ThomasMarkov it's 2lbs in 5e
so 2/13th the weight of the ones they hold
 
@Akixkisu Robert Oberst is a really cool dude.
@AncientSwordRage Looks better.
 
12:58 PM
goodenough though?
 
Yeah, Im not going to vtc even though I think its a better fit at history.
 
@ThomasMarkov I'd have to ask generically "Were hammers thrown" and it might be applicable to the types of hammer we have in D&D
 
1:39 PM
@AncientSwordRage That's the other side of the coin of your question :)
 
@NautArch thats what I thought/hoped
 
I would definitely cross-ask on history, though.
 
Protip: don't get your commentary on gender and sexuality from the comments section of a post on r/jokes. I am definitely dumber than I was 10 minutes ago.
 
@ThomasMarkov that's a lot of extra letters for 'don't go on /r/jokes'
 
1:58 PM
protip: Don't send info for one of your players to the wrong player.
 
Pro: Tip, Con: Don't tip
 
@NautArch There was no context, and it doesn't seem to go with anything we've seen in game, so I have no idea what it's about.
 
0
Q: Was throwing hammers as weapons common during european medieval combat?

PureferretI'm doing some research into the weapons of Dungeons and Dragons, and one of them is a 'light' hammer that you can throw. The description says it weighs 2lbs, if that helps narrow it down. I don't think throwing is the primary intended use, but it is very much supported by the rules. Was anything...

I was already on it
 
If you go with Pixelmaster's suggestion then I can just go film myself throwing around my 32 oz framing hammer.
"Is it feasible to throw hammers as a weapon"
I can just go out back and say "hell yeah check this out throws hammer across yard"
the real question is, "is it better than throwing a rock?"
@AncientSwordRage I had to go with ObliviousSage. Ive been convinced that it is a campaign research question.
 
2:16 PM
@ThomasMarkov would you mind doing that anyway?
 
Not gonna just go throw my hammer unless i can get internet points for it
 
There is a pun for an "unrelated" bounty there.
 
@ThomasMarkov I'm already drafting a WB question for it
@ThomasMarkov is this question even on topic? That feels more off-topic to me than my question
 
@AncientSwordRage Definitely not on topic.
Unless you ask "whats the DC to throw a hammer at something", then I would film myself showing how easy it is and suggesting a relatively low DC dexterity (athletics) check.
 
@ThomasMarkov hmmm
@ObliviousSage the key part is this: "So, is throwing a held hammer .... something added in 3.5e to an existing unthrowable hammer, or < some other speculation>" — AncientSwordRage 3 mins ago
Can anybody help me refocus my question to be closer to ^
 
2:26 PM
I think we cant really get away from campaign research/designer intent here.
It just isnt an rpg question.
Unless you make it about designer intent, which is also off topic.
 
Does asking about if it was added in 3.5e not make it RPG specific?
 
"What is the first instance of throwable hammers in D&D" is fine.
 
@ThomasMarkov It might be neater to close my Q, and I reask as that
It feels like my question should be on-topic some how, but if it's really not I shan't fight it
 
@AncientSwordRage You might also consider asking about history of throwing hammers in fantasy on scifi.stackexchange.com. They seem to be quite receptive on "What was the first depiction of X"
 
Its gotten two leave open reviews
 
2:34 PM
@ThomasMarkov yeah but it looks like people have really taken a shining to it, which tendsto override people sense of what is or isn't on topic
 
Yeah, idk. Might ask about it on meta.
Unless @Akixkisu wants to school me in here.
 
Hm. I think there are multiple stackable questions in there that would probably not showcase what you want, but somebody could put what you want in them.
I think the history se post was a good idea.
 
0
Q: What would a hammer designed for throwing look like?

PureferretIn D&D there is a history of allowing 'light hammers' to be thrown. However, at the very least the ones I remember would be completely useless if thrown. The center of gravity and balance would probably be way off. If a metal headed warhammer weighing roughly 2 lbs was being designed (pre-renais...

Have I gone to far?
Somebody suggested asking on martialarts.se
 
I know it seems counterintiutive that your question about D&D hammers is on topic at like five different stacks, and not at RPG.
 
Generally I don't think reddit is a good place to ask things, except for reddit.com/r/AskHistorians which might help you out as well if you don't want to ask some expert on the topic - twitter is usually the best place to contact professionals.
There are also some hema people who might know a thing or two about the topic, but a lot of them are not trained historians.
 
3:06 PM
Enkryptor's answer is mostly what I was hoping for
 
@AncientSwordRage It not being real kinda makes me sad.
I guess the closest is the tomahawk with the pipe bowl end
But now I kinda want a tomahawk wielding character.
 
@NautArch have a look at some of the linked near-miss weapons in the question
 
My unlikely-to-be-played @ryankinal's battlebeast master homebrew could wield them.
 
2
Q: How can I, as a GM, make players with different playstyles be more moderate?

SnakehelmI'm a GM for this group of players playing Pathfinder 2e, and we're playing an adventure where they are supposed to be city guards. Now, one of the players is taking it to an extreme level of seriousness which, while in theme with the adventure, is in contrast with the others, who are a bit more ...

 
@HotRPGQuestions Tell them to stop when you see the group losing interest.
 
3:34 PM
@NautArch Are you saying that the solution to a problem with mismatched players/play styles is to just talk to them? Perish the thought!
 
@Cooper I am shamed.
 
@ThomasMarkov It's either in Monsters and Treasure or in Greyhawk. (Books in OD&D).
OK, I found it, page 31 of Monsters and Treasures. So it's been in the game since it was published. (The +3 dwarven throwing Hammer)
 
I wonder if someone heard about the hammer throw that's part of the Highland games, said "oh, must be historical-y" and just...assumed it'd be a normal hammer?
 
@Cooper That hammer is a specialised tool :)
 
@Akixkisu Right, but I don't think it'd be unreasonable for someone to hear about that event, make the assumption that people were throwing actual common-use hammers, and make it an item without doing further research
 
3:48 PM
@Cooper Sure there is a lot that could lead to that.
 
@Cooper that sounds really plausible
 
Though it is a super specialised and not at all common hammer.
 
@AncientSwordRage I also found a postcard from the turn of the century that seems to have made the same error regarding hammers: tuckdbpostcards.org/items/69392/pictures/157265
 
@Cooper maybe it's not an error?
 
@Akixkisu Yes, I understand that. I'm saying that whoever created the item in the game might not have understood that.
 
3:51 PM
@Cooper what I find more amusing is somebody who only knows about the highland game version and is trying to hammer nails in from a distance
 
@AncientSwordRage Maybe? I'm having a hard time finding anything definitive about what the hammers of antiquity looked like.
@AncientSwordRage Ah, the old long range construction gambit!
 
@Cooper I think we can speculate a lot. Maybe the spikiness of this hammer made it look like something that they might think looks intimidating and extra war-like awesome. So they might have chosen that picture with that on their mind, or other plausible things could have happened.
 
4:24 PM
1
Q: Is this question about throwing hammers off-topic as a "campaign research" question?

Thomas MarkovNine years ago we decided campaign research questions were off topic. The guidance given was: Questions asking about a general real-world topic such as history, geography or economics might more likely belong on another Stack Exchange site (e.g. History) than here. A good rule of thumb is to ask...

 
@TheOracle that's got my upvote
 
4:43 PM
im about to ask a meta question that might be very dumb, but im hella confused.
 
oh, to have an active meta... envy face
 
@ThomasMarkov those tend to be the best questions.
 
@bobble pats bobble
it's ok
puzzling will get an active meta some how
 
It used to be more active...
 
...what happened?
 
4:48 PM
general disinterest? I dunno
 
oh so no clear cause
 
Maybe fatigue from when we stopped the re-re-run of topic challenges?
 
@bobble could be... I have not dug around on meta.puzzling.se
 
@AncientSwordRage Yeah, I closed the javelins one
 
@ThomasMarkov oddly I found that one clearer to understand the answer, even though it's a subset of the larger question about thrown weapons
 
@AncientSwordRage I'll see about improving the answer to the one I left open
 
5:47 PM
@ThomasMarkov you seen to know what your doing, so I shall leave you to it
 
Meh, looking at it, the emphasis in the rules quote does a good job of spelling out the necessary information.
 
@ThomasMarkov I edited something to clarify what normal means in this circumstance
Where is that paragraph from?
 
@AncientSwordRage Its the definition of the thrown property
 
@ThomasMarkov cool I'll edit that in in a minute
 
Busy day, I just posted another meta.
 
6:04 PM
1
Q: Does the usage guidance for the [closed-questions] tag need to be updated?

Thomas MarkovThe usage guidance for closed-questions says: This tag is for posts looking to raise meta discussions about specific closed questions, as well as for questions about the concept of a closed question in general. In practice, one of the ways we are using this tag is for meta discussion about whet...

 
6:24 PM
@Someone_Evil should the guess the system guidance post be featured?
also hey buddy
 
I think probably. I'll get to after a couple of other things
And just for future ref, a flag is probably more reliable for that kind of request. Feeds better into workflows etc
 
@Someone_Evil Wasnt sure about that. If the answer was no, would that get a helpful no or DECLINED?
 
If it's a reasonable suggestion I'd mark it as helpful even if we decide not to do it
That "reasonable" is probably doing a lot of heavy lifting though
 
flag: buy me a pizza?
 
🍕
 
6:54 PM
@Someone_Evil can you buy free pizza?
 
Donno, never been much of a philosopher
 
2
Q: Why are ball bearings so common in the Forgotten Realms?

Drew RA standard starting item in some packs is "a bag of 1000 ball bearings." Now, I am still a D&D newbie, but it seems to me that the cart is way before the horse here. Heavy-load-bearing rotating shafts did exist in the pre-industrial world (e.g. water wheels, capstans, trebuchets), and there were...

Who says they're made or steel or industrial engineering quality?
Maybe they're really cheap ones made of lead or something more abundant
 
Pretty sure lead shot and ball bearings aren't fully interchangeable
 
@Someone_Evil I take a steel ball bearing with my dinner each night, wouldnt work with lead.
 
7:13 PM
@ThomasMarkov wut
 
@AncientSwordRage The correct answer is that somebody screwed up a large production run of bowling balls for some gnomes and the excess/factory seconds are still knocking around the FR
 
@KorvinStarmast Gnomish bowling balls would probably be softball size...
 
Also, a roller skate factory in Baldur's Gate burned down and the owners sold off the excess components ...
@ThomasMarkov Like I said, they screwed up the production run ... 😁 someone read the blueprint/spec incorrectly and then .. and yes, I have seen something like that happen recently in an industrial environmen. 😮
 
@Someone_Evil do the game designers know that?
 
Luckily, the QA monitor was there as the run began and noticed "wait, the CNC is cutting deeper than in should" so they stopped it before a heck of a lot of material got wasted
 
7:17 PM
@AncientSwordRage No idea. I would assume it's in 5e because it's cool and it was in the older editions
 
@Someone_Evil I can confirm this.
 
I would assume this is back to the old mistake of trying to tie D&D to any kind of historical setting
2
 
@Someone_Evil bingo
 
0
Q: On a desktop browser, is there any way to navigate directly from the RPG.SE mainsite questions page to the Meta questions page?

screamlineThis question might be a super dumb -- or if it isn't, I have to imagine I'm not the first person to raise it. But I can't find anything about via searching (perhaps because it's tough to come up with an effective string). So. I tried to read Meta regularly. Recent Meta activity has had me bounci...

 
Ugh. It strikes me now that I could've just asked this dumb question in chat. I'll be in the corner, facepalming.
 
7:22 PM
@screamline You'll be next to the burger menu, which is also in the corner.
Forreal though, it's cool. One of the purposes of meta is for asking how the site works.
 
@ThomasMarkov You win one hundred internets, sir.
Yeah, but after the 3+ years I've been here? Shoulda figured it out.
I just always assumed that button was purely for chat, which I don't use much.
 
Same thing is on mobile too.
 
@ThomasMarkov Oddly, on mobile it's more intuitive, in that there's a little burger menu on the upper left... even though it's the same chat bubble icon. That sameness apparently was not something I internalized.
My brain saw "upper left, three lines; menu; no problem."
 
7:38 PM
I've refined my stance on the question; instead of just being "beneficial to the question", I think it's essential for it to focus on asking what realistic throwing hammers would look like. As it is, the question explicitly asks for historical evidence (albeit mainly in the title), which would indeed make it more suitable for history SE. @AncientSwordRage please do update your question, or instead clarify whether historic evidence is really what you're looking for. — PixelMaster 4 mins ago
Not true about how they suggested editing the question, right?
Like... Asking what a realistic throwing hammer is definitely not on-topic here.
 
0
Q: How to get to the SEDE without having to search up a link?

willuwontuI was going to go into the SEDE to try and compose a query related to the pinning discussion, when I realized I couldn't figure out a way to navigate there. In the past I would typically nagivate there via a link I came across, but I didn't com across one today. I thought the burger menu would ha...

 
8:26 PM
@screamline When I quit trying to find precision and consistency in the D&D rules, my life got a little bit easier, and my games got a little bit funner. — Thomas Markov 22 secs ago
 
8:59 PM
@ThomasMarkov good advice
 
 
1 hour later…
10:16 PM
@ThomasMarkov Rule 0 of dealing with D&D rules: don't treat them like computer code. That's what CRPGs have to do to get the game to run.
 
10:53 PM
@AncientSwordRage (slightly late but I've been forgetting) ATLA update: we finished s3, and my sister said it was good except she refuses to accept Katara and Aang as a couple. She particularly complimented the battling with Azula. We've since started LOK.
 
11:13 PM
31
Q: When flagging a post or comment, provide a freeform text entry field for all reasons, not just "other"

doppelgreenerI'm an elected diamond moderator on one site, and a user of several others. I think it would be extremely helpful for our flagging process if users had the option to enter freeform text explaining their flag on types of flags other than the "in need of moderator attention" flag. An example of wh...

 
@KorvinStarmast yeah, CRPGs often have to do... interesting things to D&D to make it work
(ask anyone who has done serious NWN modding -- I don't myself, but I know the devs on both servers I'm regulars on, and hijinks are involved, let me assure you that)
 
I resurrected this request with a bounty earlier in the week. Some older requests like it were declined in 2015 for ... reasons I don't think match why I posted this feature request, and which were from a very different era from today. (like someone responding with a screenshot of the comment field circled in red.) Throw some updoots its way if you happen to find it agreeable?
 
11:35 PM
4
Q: How far can a twice-exhausted Halfling Rogue with Cunning Action (Dash) move?

Olivier GrégoireJim is a halfling rogue with two levels of exhaustion. This means that their base speed is 25 ft., and that their current speed is halved to 12.5 ft. Now imagine that Jim uses their movement to move, their action to Dash and their Cunning Action to Dash, all in a straight line. How far can Jim ru...

 

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