TRPG General Chat

1:12 AM

TTRPG Resource Jam Hosted by Ken Davidson. There are a lot of talented people in the Indie TTRPG space. Many of you specialize in one area of the design process. In this jam you will find something that you consider your area of expertise. You will then create a resource in that area for other designers. Here are some ideas, but really the skys the limit, anything you think would be helpful for other designers.

2:27 AM

@BardicWizard but did you want to?

2:46 AM

@AncientSwordRage Yes.

3:07 AM

Replace “computer” with “textbook” and “axe” with a +10000 fire tongue sword with ranger levels and favored enemy as paper, and that person is who I wish I could be today.

Q: Does a spell cast from a Glyph of Warding with a range of Self have infinite effective range?

3:39 AM

Panel from the comic "Skin Horse" written by Shaenon K. Garrity & Jeffrey C. Wells and colored by Pancha Diaz.

Hot RPG Questions

4:53 AM

7

It is widely agreed that spells with a range of "Self" can be stored in a glyph of warding. The top answer to "What are the targeting range limitations of Glyph of Warding?" states: That's it: the spell is cast with all its normal statistics including range. While the trigger of the glyph can be...

Adeptus

5:40 AM

@BESW Pancha had the day off for that panel? ;)

@Adeptus Diaz didn't join the team until several chapters in, when they had more money to pay a colorist.

6:16 AM

@MarkWells This puts my problem with "loads and loads of classes" rather well

I'm generally opposed to "More is more" and "design by quota" patterns

6:34 AM

[fiddles with WWG while grumbling about clients who change the project brief at the last minute]

7:51 AM

@BESW Oh woe X_x I hope you manage to get it together in time!

Oh, they're extending the deadline... indefinitely... because they added an extra step on their end which they decided not to do months ago.

BESW: [sends in final draft for approval]
Client: Actually, we're gonna get a sensitivity reader.
BESW: (...*now?*)

x)

Oh my.

This is why all my estimates include at least two hours of double-pay "last minute changes" overtime work. Nobody's ever challenged me on it and nobody's ever felt like they didn't actually get their money's worth out of it at the end of the project.

Q: Can Major Image and forced perspective make illusions appear larger?

That's clever, I'm gonna steal that x)

Hot RPG Questions

8:12 AM

8

In the game I'm running, the PCs are about to embark on a wilderness trek during which they will be harried by an opponent who has access to the major image spell. This opponent seeks to distract, mislead, and delay them, forcing them to spend more time and resources reaching their objective tha...

dnd-5e illusion

@kviiri A lot of my clients have weird government/university budget requirements which basically mean that whatever my price estimate is going in, it's next to impossible for me to squeeze them for more than that at the end.

So I budget the last-minute panic generously.

10:03 AM

@BESW I wrote a medium blog on estimation, but it's still in draft, would you be interested in reading it?

Oh, that'd be nifty.

(it's more about time estimation but may still be related)

If you don't want to put the link here in public, we could go to Discord or something.

how can I best send it to you?

sure

thanks

11:57 AM

<ITAG>

1:08 PM

o/

\o

1:39 PM

\oo//

hiya

{#?

@BESW is that PHP?

!=/=

@AncientSwordRage <?=

1:41 PM

!~&

#&@***£_&£#!

i'm reading this whole thing as the voice of peanuts adults

Hah

=^･ｪ･^=

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

┬─┬ノ(ಠ_ಠノ)

1:44 PM

┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)

Jinx

I started reading my favorite webcomic from the top and it's making me want to play TRPGs again

@AncientSwordRage OK, where am I mailing the coke to?

@RevenantBacon ???

@kviiri which one's that?

1:46 PM

@RevenantBacon 123 Fake Street

"Jinx you owe me a Coke" is usually the full thing, no?

@doppelgreener Stand Still, Stay Silent

or SSSS for short (also again special thanks to @Carcer for providing the final push for me to start it)

@RevenantBacon not in the UK I don't think

@AncientSwordRage Oh, fair

The one I remember is that you're not allowed to talk, which seems unfair

1:48 PM

@kviiri ooh. this looks pretty.

@doppelgreener I think you might like it! It's very neatly drawn, and also unusually positively spirited for a post-apocalyptic work. There's no warlord gangs or anything like that (...that we've seen?) but just lovely people trying their best to help themselves and their communities recover.

Rubiksmoose

@kviiri So what you are saying is that it is high fantasy ;-)

(really though I looked at it as well, what a gorgeous comic)

@Rubiksmoose ...there are also mages. And the protagonists are looking for tomes of lost knowledge.

It's got a huge helping of fantasy inspired by Nordic mythology

@kviiri I almost thought you said tomatoes of lost knowledge and thought of Ursula Vernon

And cats. And a mobile base shaped like a cat. And a guy who's probably at least a part cat.

1:52 PM

@doppelgreener did you ever do war gaming? With miniatures and stuff?

@Rubiksmoose Really, though, I think if I said it's "High fantasy set in post-apocalyptic monster-infested earth" most people would have roughly the correct idea x)

Anyway. Re-reading things is much more fun than I remembered! Knowing who is who and where the plot is going, I can concentrate on the details and nuance. I love it!

Rubiksmoose

@kviiri Sorry I was trying to make a droll observation that people dealing with an apocalypse without fighting each other or having roving gangs was sufficiently unrealistic to count as fantasy. XD

@kviiri I've been reading Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH aloud to a friend and it's WILD how much Small besw didn't appreciate the sheer frikkin' craft of that novel.

@Rubiksmoose I don't mind that all! In fact I think it's because of this chat that I started seeing the post-apocalyptic - high fantasy connections in the first place

@BESW I love that book!! It is amazing.

1:57 PM

So there's a new layer to the humor x)

@BESW legit one of my favourite books

Rubiksmoose

@kviiri Well now you have me thinking about it!

And while I remembered the themes about morality and the responsibility of strength to do good, I'd somehow totally missed the whole "small braveries" aspect of living in a world of unavoidable dangers one must always be wary of but not let them define your existence.

I saw the film first though, which is still good, but not as good

@AncientSwordRage The film is excellent as a film, but as an adaption it's, okay.

1:58 PM

@BESW good phrasing

It takes many liberties, which in a way is good

As a kid I think I read some books that now I realize had way more depth than even 14-15 year old me realized.

The sheer technical prowess on display in that film would be absolutely mind-boogeling at three times the budget.

I've definitely run a mouse guard game set in that world

(There's diegetic lighting in an animated film how wild is THAT?)

@BESW Oooh Rats of NIMH has been on my to-do list forever

2:00 PM

@kviiri Strong recommend. Pass on the sequels.

@BESW now I'm curious

@BESW Incidentally, that's also true for Stainless Steel Rat by what I've heard

maybe it's a rat thing

For post-apocalyptics which don't totally despair about the goodness of humanity, I recommend Sixth World and Broken Earth.

@BESW it's been too long to remember that

@AncientSwordRage The author's daughter wrote two sequels.

2:02 PM

Also Dune... where the protagonist adopts the name of a rodent species

@BESW ahhh ok

@AncientSwordRage They put actual physical lights behind the cell paintings when photographing to film, for effects like the owl's glowing eyes.

They also did multiple exposures of different cells on the same frame of film, to get translucent effects for things like shadows and cobwebs.

@AncientSwordRage I played through an introductory game of Warhammer at a Games Workshop once using store demo pieces they had laid out for this purpose.

That's a big part of why the film's supernatural elements look so legitimately magical; they're doing things with light that you've probably never seen in any other hand-animated film.

SSSS has stuff that I could lift straight away for campaign content, post it somewhere and have people turn up to play it

2:05 PM

@AncientSwordRage in Australia the rule was if you jinxed someone, they weren't allowed to talk. If they did, you got to punch them on the arm. It was nonspecific as to once, or once per sentence, or once per word, so naturally people took liberties.

See how the light from the owl's eyes glow into the surrounding shapes? That's ACTUAL light bleed from a bulb placed behind the art.

@kviiri Yes, good, beautiful. This is the kind of post-apoc stories we need, since it's the kind of stuff that actually happens during and after disasters.

@BESW ahhhh yup, that makes sense. I looked up the wring definition of diegetic

@doppelgreener same as here I think

@BESW awesome

@doppelgreener Aye! And definitely the kind of behavior we want to encourage

2:08 PM

@doppelgreener I'll mention that Wanderhome is set in a world that's implied to be, by some standard, post-apocalyptic.

@doppelgreener cool, I was curious as I know you're also on the board and card game stack

But it's too quiet there

@BESW wow! that's awesome

Talking about quiet, I should head to the shops which means avoiding phone distractions

ttfn!

i mean, i multitask and do both when i go to the shops

@doppelgreener This gives me an idea for a spell

2:10 PM

@AncientSwordRage i'm more there for the board games and card games :D

@ThomasMarkov bigby’s jinxing punch?

@BardicWizard More like a different take on counter spell. When you hear a a creature casting a spell, you say the verbal components of that spell followed by "Jinx" The creature makes a wisdom saving throw. On a failure, they take 1d12 psychic damage and their spell fails.

@ThomasMarkov Nice. I would also enjoy Bigby’s Jinxing Hand for school though...

@kviiri there's a thing i saw being talked about a couple of months ago: a lot of men are prepared for disaster on the basis of the fantasy that when genuine disaster happens, societal order will fall apart and they'll get to take over with physical force, weaponry, and toxic expressions of machismo. They've been sold that fantasy over and over by post-apoc films showing the very same happening. But when disaster strikes, humans band together and support each other instead. [gestures around]

@ThomasMarkov D&D 3.5 had a thing where if you succeeded on an Arcana check to identify a spell being cast, and you had the same spell ready to cast, you could counter it by spending your prepared version of it.

2:15 PM

@doppelgreener I reckon those fools will actually be a far worse threat than many of the things they think they're defending against

I forgot I had notifications on

oh no lol

@doppelgreener that makes sense

Someone_Evil

@ThomasMarkov This is sounding a bit like geas with extra steps

@kviiri i don't think you're wrong either

2:16 PM

@doppelgreener Having just binged all five original Planet of the Apes films, Thoughts Are Stirring.

@BESW I'd be interested in them!

with the disclaimer that the only exposure I have to the original films is via the musical installment of them in the Simpsons

The Thoughts aren't fully formed yet, it's late at night and the upstairs neighbours are making That Sound Again.

naturally

@doppelgreener Doctor Zayus, Doctor Zayus!

The neurons remembering random quotes from Simpsons are well-spent

Something I was struck by, especially with the first four (many of the creative minds driving the fifth's themes were unfamiliar with the franchise and so it's not really in conversation with the previous films on a thematic level), was the franchise's deep despair that factional identities are comorbid with sapience and doomed to violent expression.

2:51 PM

@ThomasMarkov this would also be pretty funny in the paradigm that D&D spells are jokes, i.e.: rpg.stackexchange.com/a/8726/1204

3:10 PM

@ErikSchmidt AD&D 1e example of needing to swallow a carp/goldfish for the identify spell should have been a clue--The material components of this spell are a pearl (of at least 100 g.p. value) and an owl feather steeped in wine, with the infusion drunk and a live miniature carp swallowed whole prior to spell casting ... likewise bat guano for fireballs... — KorvinStarmast Jul 5 '18 at 13:46

@KorvinStarmast I don't get there joke...

3:27 PM

@AncientSwordRage you waiting to see if someone comes up with a better answer on your theros piety question :P

@ThomasMarkov no, I just the to forget about questions I ask

User Ben Barden left a really interesting observation in the comments too.

I added it to the answer.

@AncientSwordRage hmmm. i don't get the identify spell joke either

Carcer

detect thoughts remains the funniest material component joke to me

but I'm likewise not sure what the reference is in the identify components

3:52 PM

@ThomasMarkov ahh cool

@doppelgreener yeah

@Carcer what's the component

Ahhh copper piece for your thoughts?

oh no XD

I kinda wanna change the material component for haste to be an empty glass bottle.

@Yuuki I like the idea of a sprig of guarana

6:39 PM

If you play in a Gritty Realism setting, you could change it to a dusting of a mysterious white powder

7:07 PM

@AncientSwordRage This might be one of those generational things. Back in the 50's and 60's (I recall these shenanigans being lampooned in MAD magazine in the early 70's) there was some college student prank that involved swallowing a live goldfish (which is a kind of carp) ..and the authors of D&D and AD&D 1e were certainly familiar with cultural jokes and memes of their times. So the "you have to swallow a gold fish" was an easy to "get" cultural reference that may not transfer over two generations

See also that sometimes Shakespeare's slang/jargon is lost on people. I seem to recall that in one of his plays, one of the lines about there being "a punk" was a reference to trollops, etc ...

7:21 PM

@KorvinStarmast but how is that related to identify?

I always thought it was a fish of knowledge reference

@AncientSwordRage Pearls of wisdom is the pearl part, such that if one is so very smart one may figure out what the item is. The literalism of the current computer age wasn't how people talked, anyway. I have a suspicion that the juxtaposition was why they added it. (Professors passing out "pearls of wisdom" in their boring lectures being lampooned here) As I don't know what a 'fish of knowledge is, in 1960's parlance) I'll pass on that @GcL

Also, thought 3rd ed should have updated that component to be for comprehend languages and tongues as an homage to Douglas Adams.

@KorvinStarmast Some folktale about a fish with a lot of knowledge... bottom line is you eat the fish to gain it's knowledge.

@GcL Oh, wait, yeah, I get it! There was an old joke about two Russian guys on a Train, and how "Eating Fish Heads makes you smarter ..." I'll bet that was it. My dad told me that joke in the late 60's. Yeesh, there's a reach back.

Maybe not. I'm apparently thinking of a salmon of knowledge. An irish thing? which is probably why that's in my memory.

7:37 PM

@GcL That may be its origin. The original creative gang synthesized a whole host of different story and legend and pulp influences into a mish mash without bothering to foot note it all ... as I read some of Lovecrafts's stuff, I keep thinking about Mind Flayers and Kuo Toa from AD&D ...

Good afternoon everyone

@KorvinStarmast Lay on hands used to bother me as I really didn't like anything so directly lifted from Christian mythology, but D&D ~~ripped off~~ cribbed from a lot of material. Always felt very baked in the tropes of the time.

@GcL From Mallory's Morte d Arthur, as I recall, Lancelot.

7:58 PM

I've only ever heard that in the form of my parents telling me to eat more fish because it made you smart (likely in the same sense that carrots improve your eyesight).

Neither of which I imagine to be true, although the carrot thing was war propaganda devised to obscure the existence of British radar technology, IIRC.

8:09 PM

@Yuuki yup!

8:31 PM

@Yuuki I also recall being advised to eat "brain food"

smbailey

@Yuuki But carrots are the material component for Darkvision

@smbailey Yeah, the material component is referencing the British propaganda campaign, I imagine.

Technically, carrots do improve your eyesight. Just, ya know, not really that much. I had thought it was a cover for a then newly developed targeting system for British Bombers in WWII but my memory could have been incorrect

Also, some scientists theorize that one of the things that contributed to Homo Sapiens developing higher levels of intelligence was the additional access to seafood in their primitive diets.

@Yuuki Ah, according to the Smithsonian, you are correct, it was a cover for new radar technology, used onboard aircraft to pinpoint enemy bombers (I knew bombers were a part of it!) during night raid counter-attacks.

Apparently, it was called the Airborne Intercept Radar (AIR). Whoever thought of that acronym must have been quite pleased with themselves.

9:23 PM

Hello! What’s everyone doing?

I’m procrastinating from HW

9:41 PM

@BardicWizard hot water?

House warming?

HORSE WATCHMEN...?!

@RevenantBacon not as pleased as the dental paper which published Average Chewing Rates Of Nut Yoghurt Mixtures

@AncientSwordRage homework, sorry. I forget nobody else uses those abbreviations

and it’s chemistry homework (aka things we shouldn’t be giving to me before game sessions)

I like blowing things up and I’m sad we can’t do that in lab this year

smbailey

10:09 PM

Gotta blow stuff up from home now

Funny story that....

@BardicWizard I had a colleague like that before, they were head of the chemistry lab when I was on placement

I’m at at least 72 days without performing “unauthorized chemistry experiments” (read: blowing stuff up) as far as I can remember. I’m not sure if that one was authorized or not

first one: 5th grade, in the dressing room sink at my ballet class during nutcracker.

Last one: probably over the summer

@BardicWizard wait, what's the "w" if the "h" is "homework"?

Home Work — HW

10:24 PM

but it's one word...

smbailey

It's an abbreviation not an acronym

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

I swear it's still Horse Watchmen

Mark Wells

@smbailey I'm a fan of the biochemistry version, "grow S. cerevisiae cultures at home"

10:56 PM

@Yuuki It's got two roots.

Like how GURPS is Generic Universal RolePlaying System. And TTRPGs = TableTop RPGS.

When more than one root is 'strong' in a word, it's not unheard of for abbreviations to retain initial letters of each. E.g. KB for keyboard, EMP = electromagnetic pulse, THS = Transhuman Space (the latter is unofficial but probably more common than the formal TS).