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12:00 AM
Soapachu made a twitter image thread that is "Your regular reminder that a corgi crossed with any other breed just ends up looking like a corgi disguised as the other dog."
 
@BESW corgi crossed with corgi look like corgis disguised as corgis, then?
 
@BardicWizard All corgis are secretly really corgis, yes.
 
@BESW looks around just to see if anyone nearby is secretly a corgi spy
thinks ‘what if corgi are trying to take over the world by being cute’
 
In the late 90s when Taco Bell had its Chihuahua ads, all the boonie dogs in my neighbourhood slowly morphed into bizarre short-legged giant-headed hybrids over the next generation.
Prior to that our typical boonie dog was a short-haired rot/pit/lab kind of mix. And they kept that head, but their legs shrank and their backs got longer.
 
12:17 AM
Now I have the sudden urge to write an RPG about being secret corgi spies for the Raowrr-man empire trying to take over the world from the humans by being cute
 
Honey Heist but your stats are Cute and Spy?
 
@BESW Link? (If it’s been posted before, I apologize but I am lazy and supposed to be doing homework)
 
@BardicWizard Honey Heist by Grant Howitt. 1) You have a complex plan that requires precise timing. 2) You are a GODDAMN BEAR.
2
On itch.io, Honey Heist has been in the top tier of physical games sorted by popularity so consistently, for so long, that other devs talk about their games' success in terms of "beating the bear" and how long they've managed to stay "above the bear."
 
12:37 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in answer (1): What is a good way to challenge a Warlock with the Agonizing Blast invocation? by success007 on rpg.SE (@Rubiksmoose)
 
@SmokeDetector Sorry about that, just getting it fed to smokey :)
 
om nom nom
 
1:02 AM
@BESW Sorry, "boonie dog"? What's that mean?
 
@nitsua60 it's a dog that isn't someones pet and also probably doesn't have like a pedigree or anything
they live off of whatever they can get and probably look pretty scruffy
 
@nitsua60 random stray doggos IOW
 
@nitsua60 Boonie dogs are the dogs that live independently on the edges of human life. They aren't owned by anybody but they aren't wild. Are you familiar with rez dogs? Similar principle.
 
Aah. Stray, but not to so far as to be wild.
 
yeah they don't typically bother people
 
1:05 AM
And, triple-sniped. Must be getting on middle-aged-o'-clock =)
 
but they also aren't immediately trusting either
 
@BESW Passing familiarity with rez dogs, yes. That makes sense.
 
The best house dogs are boonie dogs that decide they want to live with you. They're hardy and smart, and already house-trained.
 
(The various descriptions above do a worryingly-good job of describing my own children, come to think of it.)
 
@BESW wait what? this happened?
people like, bred them to look more like that?
 
1:08 AM
@BESW "Congratulations! You got adopted by a dog!"
 
this is a horrible night for a curse
 
@trogdor Not on purpose; boonie dogs always get down with house pets, so the boonie phenotype always trends toward whatever fad dog breed is most popular.
 
ooooh
god I was losing my sanity over that being on purpose
 
@BESW Ahh I see people aren't neutering their pets then
@trogdor same
 
but yeah that makes more sense
 
1:09 AM
@Shalvenay Almost all my childhood dogs were acquired because it decided to get in the car with my dad.
 
most people as I am aware don't breed boonie dogs
the nature of the animals means you either want one for what it is already or you don't generally XD
there are probably exceptions of course but that's the general trend
 
@AncientSwordRage Breeding animals are valued here, it's part of the farm-focused cultural attitude toward animals.
 
yeah people do breed dogs
just as far as I understand it they don't do it purposefully with boonie dogs
 
@BESW ahh ok
 
that's why I mentioned the pedigree thing
because people breed say, Bulldogs or wtv for like house protection and stuff
for example
and,.... dogfights
X(
 
1:12 AM
AFAIK in the Uk it's either Neutered Dog, or horrible puppy farms :(
there's probably a middle ground, but I never hear about it
 
those aren't the only reasons to breed dogs around here but those are the ones I most commonly hear about
 
There's also, like with rez dogs, a sense of agency of personhood with regard to neutering that makes people reluctant to make it a normalized practice.
 
@BESW I get that
 
Which isn't to say that there's no neutering at all going on. Vets do spay-and-neuter drives that travel from village to village, and there's a significant amount of money put into pro-neutering propaganda.
 
There's definitely a TNR movement for stray cats
 
1:16 AM
Yeah, we've got a massive stray cat problem which makes the dogs kind of a secondary focus.
My hådu ga'lågitu got snipped as soon as he started getting aggressive, but his mother's owner won't ever spay her.
 
@BESW ::sad face::
I've seen too many My Cat From hell where not neutering the cat is excused as the 'macho' thing
@BESW Yeah I'd imagine the cats are more of a problem
 
And of course there's also the babuen machålek, the wild pigs. Which sometimes join the boonie dog packs.
 
@BESW yeah, stray cat problems can be pretty serious :/ especially on an island
@BESW wild pig = ooooof
 
4
Q: What is damage you do vs. damage a creature takes? (and Dark One's Blessing)

KirtThe Warlock ability Dark One's Blessing says (emphasis mine) Starting at 1st level, when you reduce a hostile creature to 0 hit points, you gain temporary hit points equal to your Charisma modifier + your warlock level (minimum of 1). Is there a general ruling on who or what is the author of da...

 
@BESW ...join...?
 
1:22 AM
I've never seen that but I have seen packs of just the wild pigs
 
@AncientSwordRage It's not really common, but it's not unexpected to see a wild pig integrated into a group of boonie dogs as a long-term member.
Off the top of my head I know of one such instance near Troggy's childhood home in the late 90s.
 
there's a bamboo forest right behind my back yard that houses at least one group of them, I've only seen them once but I've heard them back there a handful of times
the pigs are pretty smart
I wouldn't discount their ability to adapt to the social structure of dogs
 
@trogdor yeah that's true
 
My dog (boonie, adopted into my household) would run the babuen machålek trails on the weekends while she was out begging BBQ from the neighbours. I don't think she was integrated with any of them, though.
 
Doggies!!!!! This post brought to you by the inside of Bardic Wizard’s brain, specifically the part that’s still 6 years old
 
1:29 AM
@BardicWizard ahh we all have those
 
 
lol
 
 
I'm not a huge fan of dogs these days, but as a kid I loved them and one of them even saved me from an angry chicken mom once so I can't be too dog negative
XD
 
I would share photos of my cats all night long, but instead I should probably head off
 
1:39 AM
lol
 
ciao for niao
 
meow meow meow
XD
 
My previous relationship strained my relationship with dogs a bit
In retrospect, I think dogs aren't really to blame x)
Not that I found them culpable in some moral sense back then either
Anyway. It's too much o'clock
g'nite
 
1:56 AM
night
 
2:10 AM
Consider: how to deal with problem players?
Example problem players: a nice player who likes the game and has fun, until without warning they are tired of whatever is going on and try to speed things uup
A player who just wants to kill everything
 
@TheDragonOfFlame the [problem-player] tag here is pretty extensive, but the usual TL;DR is "talk to them, player to player"
 
"Problem players" are very rare. What's common is a group that fails to establish healthy ways for people to talk about what they need and want, and be heard and respected.
5
Jun 4 '19 at 10:13, by BESW
The TTRPG Safety Toolkit (Google Drive folder link) by Kienna Shaw and Lauren Bryant-Monk. It contains the TTRPG Quick Reference Guide v.2.0 (now called the TTRPG Safety Toolkit Guide), copies and links to other safety resources, and printable XNO cards.
Wanting to kill everything isn't a problem if everyone in the group wants that too; it's only a problem if the group has failed to agree upon what kind of game everyone is playing, and then somebody starts playing their kind of game. De-escalating combat to have social roleplay would be just as much of a problem in a group that's only interested in tactical combat.
Being tired of what's going on and trying to speed things up isn't a problem; not having to tools to communicate that feeling and desire is a problem, as is a group which doesn't respect one of their friends not being as engaged as everyone else.
And yeah, every now and then you get somebody who genuinely wants to make other people unhappy. They are easier to spot and call out if the group's got the tools and techniques to deal with sincere needs.
The Safety Toolkit above has lots of tips and techniques for providing structure to a table's conversations, making space for problem-solving in ways that don't demonize people just for having needs that the others haven't been able to magically intuit.
May 13 at 8:45, by BESW
Personally, I often use Script Change as a starting place with most of my groups.
(Anybody want to try again at getting the tag phrasings synonymized to something less prejudicial? Last time there was general consensus that the tags should be changed but no agreement on what the new tag(s) should be.)
(Anyone who's been noodling about how rpg.se can work to improve the TRPG landscape without having specific questions to answer? This kind of work is an obvious example: our sorting system contains prejudicial antagonistic language; replace it with more compassionate language.)
4
 
2:39 AM
@BESW my vote would be to fold it into [group-dynamics] or something like that?
 
The implementation is all'y'all's thing to figure out. I don't do mainsite content anymore.
 
to be fair, neither do I
 
Not I, said the sheep.
 
3:19 AM
I just found my shadow sorcerer’s Plans To Take Other Party Members Down In The Event Of A Major Emergency Requiring Action that I wrote last year when we started this campaign
It also includes Plans To Take Down Various Friends And Other Allies
(aka NPCs)
The most hilarious bits are step 3 for the paladin, “let the dog deal with it”; step 1 for the artificer, “Glare at the player OOC. Glare at the artificer IC”; and steps 1-7 for the paranoid NPC sorcerer who’s my character’s friend/mentor/pseudo-uncle/look-it’s-complicated, which are very long
> 1. Antimagic Field.
> 2. Glare at him IC and at the GM OOC
> 3. Antimagic field
> 4. don’t let him blow us up
 
3
Q: What DC should a Skeleton's Explosive Death ability be?

ESCEWhat DC should a Skeleton's Explosive Death ability be? I've just been using the standard DC for a level equal to the skeleton, which is fine for the Skeletal Champion but that poses some problems for the Skeleton Guard (which is level -1). The Bestiary (at least, Bestiary 1, the only one I have)...

 
There’s also a full plan, in simple language that an INT 0 creature can understand, for taking down the sorcerer herself.
I was paranoid
 
lol
 
@BardicWizard I'm reminded of Ursula Vernon's Pugmire game, in which the paladin is a corgi.
 
@BESW steps one and two are “fire bolt will not do enough damage” and “summon the hound of ill omen”
 
3:33 AM
He was a devotee of the Church of the Good Boy, which had the Mystery of the Unthrown Ball and the vigil of a plate of snacks left untouched.
> DRUID: Where’s your paladin?
CORGI: OMG OMG OMG I’M HERE
DRUID: There is evil baked into the walls here.
CORGI: I AM SO READY TO BARK AT IT
https://twitter.com/UrsulaV/status/1252403886398164995
> CORGI PALADIN: Bark! Stab! Bark! Stab!
GM: It’s a hit. You killed it.
CORGI: Triumphant bark! I’m going to give it a proper burial after I roll on it.
https://twitter.com/UrsulaV/status/1044397070365454338
 
3:57 AM
Why are corgis associated with ttrpgs?
 
They aren't, particularly. They're a popular dog on the parts of the Internet which likes cute things, so they get added to all kinds of other interests when those interests are talked about in online spaces.
Nothing specific to TRPGs about that.
 
Ah ok it has been a meme in multiple games i played
a Druid fell 200 feet, but instead of dying, got amnesia and wild shaped into a corgi
*flying demon corgi
 
That's a new one on me, but I know Wizards has made corgi-related April First publications in the past.
 
4:16 AM
Ah ok
 
And of course there's games like Pugmire, which is D&D but animals. And Fairy Corgi Steeplechase, and Pathfinder's got a dire corgi running around somewhere. But this is all just basic background radiation from popular culture liking corgis.
 
Don't forget about the eldritch horror TTRPG Call of Corgthulhu
Or the more friendly Golden Sky Corgis
 
4:37 AM
@MikeQ I think the latter is more my style, and now I am really off to bed. Thanks and good night.
 
5:23 AM
Arrrggghh parents.
Also arrggghhh forced bedtime in the middle of a math problem
 
I think you mean Aaahh!!! Real Parents.
 
lol
 
 
1 hour later…
6:54 AM
My parents probably would have been happy to let me finish a single math problem before bed but the sad truth is I hated all math homework XD
Really all math I've been forced to do
Though that's probably mostly school related
 
 
4 hours later…
11:21 AM
@BESW Seeeeeeeeeeeeeeee I took one look at Pugmire and felt like this game wasn't for me, but I've definitely caught UVs tweets about the game and thought "Whose Genius idea was it to have D&D but with animals!".
So now I feel odd
 
Yeah, I feel like it's a good example of how D&D is very much not the ideal engine for many kinds of... D&D.
But a group like Vernon's is gonna take any system and do their own particular thing with it.
 
@BESW pugmire or reflavoured D&D?
@BESW they is
 
Pugmire. The "D&D but animals" concept would, I think, work a lot better with an engine that's much less D&D-like.
 
@BESW Ahh ok, Ithought pugmire was a WhiteWolf/Onyx Path thingy, and nothing to do with D&D mechanically
 
 
11:26 AM
well I'll be blowed
that is D&D
 
I found a sample few pages online too
it's even more perplexing to me then
 
I've seen Vernon's tweets from 4e games, Pugmire games, and a handful of other systems. They're indistinguishable because she's sharing her table style, which doesn't change much regardless of the systems being used.
 
@BESW that's a fair point
White Wolf releasing Pugmire, feels like Pepsi releasing a flavour of coke, at last to me.... I think it's breaking my brain
When I first saw it advertised I thought "Well, I could just play D&D but flavoured as everyone being dogs, why would I learn a new system just for that??"
 
So when you look at Pugmire, you see the weirdness of D&D in stark contrast because it's being presented in a new light; when you look at Vernon's tweets, you see Vernon and her friends filtered through the filter of Pugmire.
 
11:31 AM
it's not like they own the copyright on dogs
 
You could always play a doggo in Bell Songs or Wanderhome or Dogs in the Bark or The Great Bork Team or Golden Sky Stories or...
 
My cousin was going to be a mountain shark.
 
wise
all the powers of a mountain, and the powers of a shark
 
Golden Sky Stories, play it
XD
 
11:39 AM
literally unstoppable
 
that's my contribution
XD
to this conversation
 
@trogdor but I'm tired....
 
too bad just do it now
:P
 
Do not defy the Trogdor.
2
 
Lol
You could instead just dream of magical animal children
Never say I'm not merciful
XD
 
11:44 AM
@trogdor done
whats the next step
 
12:01 PM
Good day friends
 
@ThomasMarkov good day!
@BESW I struggled to find Bell Songs, so I'm linking it here: rpgnatalie.itch.io/bell-songs
 
Jun 7 '19 at 0:28, by BESW
Bell Songs is a (GMless) game of animal adventure in the vein of Redwall, Mouse Guard, or Watership Down. You will need: 1-3 friends, some six sided dice, and something to write with.
 
I'm going to assume the others are going to be easier to google
 
If I mention a game that's not, like, Pathfinder or D&D or the like, chances are good you can find me linking to it in chat some time in past.
 
Why google anything, when you can wait for BESW to post a quote of theirs?
Well, you beat me to what I was saying so I may just stop posting and let you speak for me XD
I should look into what this downtime stuff is, it seems like a persistent element in a lot of games
 
12:14 PM
Whenever I finally make a system for Traveling Librarians, downtime will be massively important.
 
12:49 PM
@AncientSwordRage I think the best current example of downtime in the popular psyche is Hades.
 
@BESW Is that the computer game?
 
Aye, the Greek-legends roguelite about escaping the Underworld.
When you inevitably die on an escape attempt, you resurrect back in your starting point, the House of Hades.
 
@BESW sounds.... standard?
isn't respawning an old video game mechanic?
 
But the House of Hades isn't just a staging area for your escape attempts where you upgrade your escaping abilities and make choices about your next run's setup. It's a place where you can pet the dog, redecorate, learn to play the harp, and advance the story by developing your character's relationships with the other people who live in the House.
 
ahh like a Hub World
 
12:56 PM
You often find yourself making choices on an escape attempt based on how they will influence your options in the House after you die again, more than making choices in the House based on how they will influence your next escape attempt.
Good downtime is built into the game loop and is in conversation with the rest of the play experience.
 
@BESW sounds good to me
I've mostly heard of it as having good accessibility
 
D&D's downtime, by contrast, tends to be one-directional.
 
@BESW or non-existant
 
Oh, Hades is great. I hate roguelikes, and I love Hades. The play is accessible to me, and the characters and writing and design are clever and compassionate and adorable.
 
@BESW sounds good
 
1:00 PM
Primal Chaos is a big softie and I love them.
 
@ThomasMarkov Someone doesn't like these questions about spells where you disappear/reappear and advantage.
 
@NautArch I added some more to my answer, some examples with the word vanish
 
@ThomasMarkov Still disagree, but that's okay. I didn't downvote, tho. I think the logic is sound.
But both that question and mine on blink got downvoted.
 
@NautArch are they easy to find on the homepage?
 
@AncientSwordRage yeah, sort by active
 
1:03 PM
So critical role is releasing a version of Munchkin.
 
@ThomasMarkov ughhh
 
And the internet cant decide when its being released.
 
[blink] That sounds... like something I might have had a flicker of interest in five years ago?
 
@ThomasMarkov gameplay or their own deck?
I"ve got a couple decks, but never figured out the rules (or really tried)
 
their own standalone game
 
1:05 PM
@ThomasMarkov I will never play that then. Munchkin destroyed at least one gaming group I was in and nearly killed another (would have if we hadn’t been really good friends beyond it)
 
It was announced in March with a September 30 release, then that seems to have been pushed back to February, but now Amazon is saying a November 1 release, except they turned off preorders and are shwoing out of stock.
 
@BardicWizard whoa. why?
 
Gonna call my brick and mortar today to see if they know anything about it.
 
@BardicWizard Gosh, I'm so sorry. But not surprised. It's not a very... friendly... game.
 
@BardicWizard was that because someone found out what a level 1 thief can do
 
1:07 PM
Munchkin . . . I find the whole concept amusing, but didn't find it interesting in practice when I tried playing. And yet lots and lots of people seem to be having lots of fun with it. So much that now the GURPS players/GMs often express envy to how active of SJGames' Munchkin's releases and investments are compared to GURPS.
(In a way, GURPS is perceived as SJG's long-standing flagship on a conceptual level, even though on a financial level Munchkin currently is the flagship.)
 
I've had fun with it in very limited doses. But past those limited doses, I find its patterns get kind of un-fun.
 
@BardicWizard I declined playing before it got there, it's not a healthy game
 
It was not a great friendship anyways but it got a little personal. My friends don’t do great with backstabbing and three sessions of one game of munchkin broke our group up since nobody trusted anyone else anymore
 
I enjoy Munchkin.
 
I don't enjoy critical role
 
1:11 PM
@BardicWizard the people I played with used to enjoy backstabbing more than winning
 
The cunning aspects of the game seem no better and no worse than that of other 'party' games like Bang! or Betrayal on the Hill, but I just seem to not be the target audience as far as the core mechanics go.
 
@NautArch I enjoy critical role.
 
@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica In defense of BaHotH, the roles are fixed by the game not subject to the whims of the players
 
I'm anti-skub.
 
@ThomasMarkov -1 :P
@doppelgreener I'm pro-Scoob
 
1:13 PM
@AncientSwordRage Don't various scenarios do stuff like turning a small subset of the PCs into possessed by ghosts, similar mechanically to e.g. BSG?
 
@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica yes, but again that's part of the scenario
 
on a very side note, Looks like Moon Knight is coming to disney with Oscar Isaacs
 
not "You can win if you turn on your own team, which could be any time"
 
@BardicWizard That's unfortunate. Was that around stuff like sending enemies into fights, or promising to help and not actually?
I think my group's primarily experienced problems around two factors: (1) The thief's "nothing to lose" state is a net negative on the game, and (2) we experience a predictable pattern where eventually someone is level nine, everyone throws everything into that fight because the escalation demands it, that person loses, and the next person wins because nobody has any resources to stop them with.
 
I played munchkin a lot in college and we were very good about keeping the game in the game and not away from the table, because we made a point to talk about it before we played every time.
 
1:18 PM
@doppelgreener We had something similar, but it was more that we had enough resources to continue ad infinitum, or at least thats my memory
 
@AncientSwordRage Oh wow! That's not a gameplay loop I've seen yet.
 
From what I'm reading above, i'm thinking Munchkin would NOT be a good family game.
 
@doppelgreener I could be mistaken
It could have been more that if player 1 is about to win, player 2 stops them without a way of winning themselves.
 
@ThomasMarkov That seems to be the default mode of keeping it fun - not confusing character grudges and player friendships.
 
We played Monopoly every weekend for an entire semester once. I started treating it like work. I'd shower and get dressed after dinner on Fridays and show up with a thermos of hot tea ready for business.
 
1:19 PM
@AncientSwordRage I'll believe you, it's not like my experience of the game is very thorough or authoritative.
 
@doppelgreener likewise, I stopped playing quickly when I saw how it often devolved
 
@ThomasMarkov But why, of all games, Monopoly?
 
@NautArch It looks like "There's no flavour text" vs. "Spells only do what they say they do". My money would be on the latter though
 
"Spell only do what they say they do" seems to support my position re: steel wind strike, but its been cited against my position. "Spells only do what they say they do, unless they say you vanish, then ignore that part".
 
@ThomasMarkov If it had said you go invisible, instead of vanish, then I'd say if had more weight
 
1:27 PM
@AncientSwordRage See the new section I added to my answer.
 
I'd have thought it would be super relevant to a combat spell to.. well, spell out, if you got advantage
I do see your (and many other's) point in the respective answers
 
@doppelgreener both. It also wasn’t a friendship anyone really was invested in since it was some kids in summer camp just doing a pickup game with the nearest game around, which happened to be munchkin. Got permission to leave it out in the corner of the lunchroom and keep playing, but it only lasted 3 days before everyone was really mad at each other
 
oh noooooo
 
The almost-ruined group wasn’t very close either but had better relationships with each other before the game so it was a lot of argument that ended up getting resolved a few days later after everyone calmed down
 
@ThomasMarkov Some of those examples vanish means 'cease to exist on this plane of existance' not just 'is now unseen', necessarily they should then begin to exist again before hitting?
The item you cause to vanish is not invisible, it is now extra dimensional
 
1:38 PM
@AncientSwordRage It just means my examples are more ambitious than they need to be.
In another example vanish just means become invisible.
 
@ThomasMarkov I think the text of SWS is ambiguous at best
I think the phrase "Vanish to strike" is troublesome
 
@AncientSwordRage Yeah, I'm pretty sure there clearly is fluff text - no matter what Wizards may say.
 
I'm trying to find the linguistic term when a non-infinitive verb precedes an infinitive
 
@AncientSwordRage example?
 
@AncientSwordRage Auxiliary?
At least the function implied seems to be auxiliary-like.
 
1:43 PM
@ThomasMarkov "Looking forward to resting" does not necessarily mean looking in the forward direction
 
@AncientSwordRage Right, it means looking forward in time, no?
 
@AncientSwordRage But . . . is 'resting' infinitive?
I thought the infinitive is 'to rest'.
 
@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica maybe a bad example
 
"Forward to" would be a preposition there.
"I am looking" subject-predicate, "forward to" I think is a proposition, and "resting" is the object of the preposition.
 
sounds cromullent
2
 
1:48 PM
@AncientSwordRage But it is embiggening
 
Hang on... separately... material components with a cost are used up, correct?
 
@AncientSwordRage Only if they say theyre consumed
 
"which the spell consumes" is the phrase used.
 
for a moment I thought SWS used up the weapon!
 
1:50 PM
@AncientSwordRage if they have a cost, you can't use a focus
 
Can a component pouch provide the weapon for SWS?
 
@ThomasMarkov I thought they only contained items without a cost
 
^^
Hexblade should totally get this spell
I'm going to petition my DM
 
I guess my argument against your reading, @ThomasMarkov, is that the act of vanishing is only in support of the 'strike like the wind', and not to imply invisibility or extra-dimensionality
 
@AncientSwordRage The primary cognitive dissonance in my mind is how vanishing could possibly not imply "unseen".
 
1:57 PM
@ThomasMarkov booooo
 
Ah, SWS says "a melee weapon worth at least 1 sp"
 
@ThomasMarkov I think it does separate from 'to strike'
 
Okay but "vanish to strike" is like a synonym for "unseen attacker"
 
If it was separate sentences "You vanish. Then you strike like the wind against up to 5 targets", then it's completely cut-and-dry
 
So like are you saying "You vanish, you are unseen, but we ignore that and dont give advantage" or are you saying "You vanish, youre just not unseen"?
 
2:01 PM
I think the counter is simply saying that you have to read more into the spell by analyzing "vanish" then you normally should.
 
@ThomasMarkov I think the latter
 
I stand by what I said yesterday.

They're anime attacks.
 
You're not wrong @ThomasMarkov in your reading, but it's an unnecessary reading that gives more than the spell likely should do.
 
analyzing it breaks down because the 6 second rounds are essentially timeless
I mean do you vanish, reappear then strike? Do you vanish, strike then reappear? I'm ignoring the teleportation part of the spell
Where it says "You can then teleport", if I choose not to, do I stay unseen?
 
2:04 PM
@AncientSwordRage No you end up where you were when you cast
 
@ThomasMarkov but I've not moved, and I did vanish
I think vanish either implies movement, or being unseen
 
@AncientSwordRage In my reading of every definition Ive been able to find it always implies unseen.
 
So your ruling is because of the implication?
:D
 
@ThomasMarkov Google gives me "recede from view", which I think is where my feeling of movement comes from, similar to "Vanishing into the distance"
it doesn't mean things become hidden
 
@AncientSwordRage So unseen
 
2:08 PM
it can also mean 'withdraw', 'depart' or 'leave'
 
There, I've asked dnd-support
 
@AncientSwordRage Yes, and I cant see you after you withdraw, depart, or leave.
 
@goodguy5 Did you vanish after?
 
@ThomasMarkov because I'm no longer nearby
 
2:28 PM
@BardicWizard Then you'll want to play Paranoia, for sure. 😁
@NautArch Updoot on that sentiment ...
 
@KorvinStarmast I feel like that's less of an issue because it's baked into the games premise and mechanics
 
@KorvinStarmast that’s a no go for my groups too
 
I am just glad that SJG is still alive and well.
 
Society of Jewish Giants?
 
@KorvinStarmast I'm pleased and mildly surprised by the sentiment. For almost two decades I've been consistently running into people (usually peripheral fans or non-fans) proclaiming doom and gloom (of the 'SJGames has been dead for years' sort).
 
GcL
2:34 PM
@KorvinStarmast Southern Jersey Gas?
 
@NautArch Steve Jackson Games. If I reach back into deep memory, I think he put out a monster suplement for D&D/other fantasy rpg's before the AD&D 1e monster manual came out ... need to check, might be a different early RPG author. (Don't think it was Ken St Andre ..)
 
Strangely enough, even the Fantasy Trip is experiencing a resurgence of sorts.
 
@GcL I much prefer that over Northern Jersey Gas
 
3:06 PM
@NautArch They just got back to me: They have stopped supporting ruling questions.
 
@goodguy5 DIY
Does that mean they're removing Sage Advice, too :D
 
@ThomasMarkov The sheer number of answers to that SWS strike question, wow
 
I gave Bluemoon an updoot. I like their assessment
 
@NautArch likewise
 
3:27 PM
@ThomasMarkov Not sure doubling down on each related question about SWS is the right thing to do...
but maybe it is /shrug
 
@NautArch What are you talking about?
 
@ThomasMarkov answering the older SWS strike on invisibility with it.
But I guess it's fine if you're really a believer in it (which I think you and others are)
I always have that itch in the back of my head around upvoted answers tht make things more powerful.
 
BBeast posted the new question in response to my answer there.
@NautArch See their comments on this answer
 
oh, ha!
ne'ermind !
 
There's just so many questions bundled together with people disagreeing on each one :(
Are you invisible? Can you be seen during the attacks? Do you even move at all? Are the attacks simultaneous? Does flavor text exist? ...
And people use answers to each of those questions to support various other stances about the spell. Meanwhile, basically every one of those is not answered easily nor does it have an answer everyone agrees with XD
 
3:43 PM
@Medix2 So...up to DM?
 
Life Pro Tip: If I ever DM for you guys and you have the opportunity to take SWS, do.
 
@ThomasMarkov would you allow a hexblade to swap it in instead of Banishing Smite :)
 
Just had a great idea for a story
It's a heist on a generation ship
 
4:04 PM
@NautArch sure why not
 
@ThomasMarkov Thinking of a combo for me of Two attacks and then action surge steel wind
 
4:22 PM
@TheDragonOfFlame Having been both that player and in a game with such a player, I can relate with the problem, but I think it's not really the player that's a problem. If you're doing something as a fun group activity and people start getting fed up or bored with it, I'd start by assessing problems with the activity, (which is pretty much what our good BESW already said)
 
@AncientSwordRage Interesting... especially the getaway portion
 
People get bored around the table, and in all cases I've witnessed so far it's been because the game was boring
 
@Upper_Case I'm going to have the Generation ship having been launched before FTL travel was developed, but also taken over been taken over by an unregulated AI Matrix style
 
@AncientSwordRage Is this a typical, free-flowing TTRPG style game you have in mind, or more of a board game with a repeatable scenario (like Dead of Winter)?
 
This one time, a player who had not optimized their character's Spirit successfully was stunlocked for an entire combat in Deadlands: Reloaded. We had that air of "no, we're CERTAINLY not a stat optimizer group", yet we didn't do a thing to prevent a player's poor choice in stats from causing them to skip almost all their turns. We did poke fun at the player for being absent-minded and fiddling. Shouldn't've.
 
4:27 PM
@Upper_Case book/novel/short story
 
@AncientSwordRage That will make the heist details easier to plan and pull off! My TTRPG players never take heists anywhere near where I expect
That does sound like a cool scenario
 
@Upper_Case thanks!
 
5:14 PM
@kviiri My limited experiences with Savage Worlds have supported this: it's an astonishingly poorly balanced combat engine disguised as a FATE-like system, making it a nasty trap for inexperienced players.
 
@MarkWells Yeah, "Fast Furious Fun" came off more like... I dunno. "Frustrating", I can't think of other two that'd be PG.
 
If I wanted to run something Deadlands-ish these days I think I'd use Feng Shui.
 
Ooh, it's the wuxia PbtA right? It seemed super neat when it was teased a couple of years ago but I was too busy to follow it.
 
Yeah. It's been around for a few years but there's a new-ish edition.
"Hong Kong action movie" is a useful niche for a TTRPG: it can be a game where narrative logic and Rule of Cool prevail and there's a chapter with a big list of guns.
 
5:51 PM
This is the most Ive seen the community divided on a single question since I joined up;
 
the Steel Wind thing?
I was thinking of posting an answer proposing that SWS makes you permanently invisible. Maybe that will help.
 
@MarkWells Fair point, it doesn't give a time limit for how long you are "vanished"
However, I think that just more strongly points towards the "ceasing to exist" bit from the "it's because it's a teleportation effect" side
 
the point being of course that it implies that you "vanish" and then reappear, and the real question is whether you reappear before or after attacking.
 
@MarkWells The attacks are made simultaneously...maybe
 
But I have a tendency to assume that sarcastic absurdity will communicate anything useful, when it really just causes more confusion if not carefully signposted.
 
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