TRPG General Chat

12:00 AM

Our group has played together for the past few decades ... and we still sometimes hit "Actually, can we not go there?" moments.

BESW

(The material around the Checklist makes that more clear, but the Checklist itself looks like a contract.)

Black Spike

A game was pitched (as a prelude to his bigger Campaign) "You are all patients in an Asylum". Some players were on-board ... others less so ... some very-much-less-so (as in "I won't be playing that game!")

BESW

@BlackSpike Oh yeah. And there was a time when I would've been on board for that but I'm not now.

Black Spike

@BESW ditto

It was Cthulu-based, and we could all see where it was coming from ... but ...

BESW

Safety tools give us a way to check in with each other and a structure for handling it when things inevitably aren't perfect, and remind us that our friends at the table are more important than the story we're telling.

Helwar

12:04 AM

I'm on the opposite spectrum, I've been trying to play a fun one shot of something silly like Maid RPG or the one with the bears and the honey.... EVeryone nopes out as soon as I say anything

Black Spike

I've been tryign to get people to pitch some short, silly/fun games, as we are between-Campaigns ... no-go so far :(

BESW

@BlackSpike H*ck, I can't read Victor LaValle's The Devil in Silver because although I'm confident he'll treat the mentally ill with respect himself... he's writing a horror novel that takes place in an abusive psychiatric ward. I noped out of the story before we got to any of the supernatural bits.

Helwar

@BESW I just feel like all that is like... A LOT, for just having common sense. So many rules and a checklist and all that, when all you need is to know your players a little and don't be a jerk if someone mentions not feeling ok about the direction of the game

Black Spike

@BESW Don't know that one. If it's written well, might be ok (not my sort of story tho)

BESW

@Helwar Why do you feel like it's necessary to tell us this? Is anyone here giving you a hard time for not using safety tools? Or are you trying to convince us that the problems we've had in our games shouldn't lead us to try tools to mitigate them in the future?

Black Spike

12:09 AM

My dad did paperwork for maintenance in our local Mental Health Hospital, and my mum was a teacher in a Special needs school ... I got lots of (2nd hand) baggage ...

BESW

@BlackSpike LaValle is an amazing writer. That's part of my problem with the book, it's really really good at making me feel how awful the abuse is.

Black Spike

"Common Sense" is rarely common, and very rarely Sensible

Helwar

@BESW No no no, not at all. Man I'm bad at communicating if you took that from me. Of course you will want to use any tools at your disposal to not have those kinds of problems!

I was just saying that it feels like too much for me, not that it didn't have it's place or it shouldn't be used

BESW

You seem to be defensive about something, and using phrases like "just having common sense" and "know your players a little and don't be a jerk" sound very much like you think people who use safety tools are lacking common sense, don't know their friends, and are jerks.

Black Spike

@Helwar depends on your table .. not all are with Good Friends. Some are with Strangers. Some people are not happy to Openly admit certain issues (Anonymity was mentioned previously).

Helwar

12:12 AM

hey, if I went into a game with you and you asked us to follow those guidelines I'd be happy to, if that's what is neede to make sure the game is safe and fun, i'd happily do it!

BESW

Which would be me, because you're pinging me when I'm talking about how I use safety tools.

Helwar

@BESW No not at all, I wasn't trying to be "defensive" at all, maybe I did subconsciously, but not on purpose!

Black Spike

@BESW I'm caught between horses here. Our group would laugh at the suggestion of "Formalised Authorisation to Use Certain Themes", and "Official Safety Tools" ... but we are friends of some years ... with less close-kint groups, I can see how they are useful

V2Blast

@JohnP Only way to hide spoilers in chat is to format it as a fake link

Helwar

As said it's not like I'm against it

BESW

12:15 AM

Every group I've ever been in would've benefited from safety tools, especially the ones with close friends because we were more likely to have unspoken assumptions about shared understandings which... turned out to not be shared.

V2Blast

@Helwar Not everyone has the same lines, and not everyone feels comfortable bringing them up unprompted (especially with a group of people they don't know all that well). In addition, people can easily have mistaken assumptions about what their group is and isn't okay with.

You don't necessarily need to use these exact safety tools

BESW

Some safety tools are bad. No safety tool is universally appropriate, or the right solution to every situation or for every group.

V2Blast

yeah

Black Spike

Two local Games Cafe's have opened recently, and if I were to run an Open Table game, I think a "Here's some Theme's I'll be including" .. or "Do you have any "NOPE" themes?" would probabyl be a good idea

BESW

But safety tools give explicit structure for navigating consent, which is usually handled by implicit social rules that inherently disadvantage the people who need them most.

Peter Cooper Jr.

12:17 AM

It would be hard for me to just tell you all my "'NOPE' themes" off the top of my head.

Helwar

Yeah I get you all, I was just commenting that I don't feel like I need that personally. I think I'd make my voice heard if I had complains, and as a DM I don't usually get into "difficult" themes, and if I got into one unkowingly I'd be sure to hear any comments about it and act accordingly

so @BESW if you feel attacked by me, please have my apologies, It wasn't intended

BESW

@PeterCooperJr. I know, right. I appreciate the opportunity to say "no cannibalism please" up front, but I need safety tools that focus on mid-game "oof this isn't feeling good" moments.

Because mid-game, I'm often likely to be caught up in the story and the presence of the tool will help me be mindful of my own needs.

Black Spike

@PeterCooperJr. Agreed. As a GM pitching a game, I can try to inform beforehand what I might include. (Using provided Safetly Tools, or just saying "This adventure includes *insert stuff here *)

BESW

And I have friends who would never bring up a problem, especially mid-game, without a safety tool explicitly telling them it's okay to do so. There's a LOT of social pressure to just tough it out and not interrupt everyone else's fun.

I know that as a GM I thought people would feel okay telling me if there was a problem, but I never actually made space for that to be easy for them to do, so it didn't happen.

Black Spike

@Helwar Do you generally Game with close friends? I do. As I said, Official, Formal Safety Tools are not appropriate for that Group. We'll talk to each other (in or out of game, direct, or "hey, Dave, can you tell Steve I'm not happy with this")

BESW

12:22 AM

It took @doppelgreener forcing that space open for me to notice that I hadn't actually been making effort to create the space even though I said I wanted it.

Helwar

@BlackSpike Yeah mostly friends. That's why I felt like I didn't really need it... but it was on a personal level, not saying that the tools weren't useful

Black Spike

@Helwar It can still be a good idea to provide a framework/channel/method for Issues to be raised. Sometimes we don't always know our Friends as well as we think (cf: pitching "Asylum" game. ) Differetn tables will have different methods, but err on the side of Making it Easy

Peter Cooper Jr.

So, my local table is transitioning (slowly) from being entirely people in my nuclear family to including some "outsiders"/"strangers", and I've been wondering how/whether to include some sort of official-ish "tool" (even something simple like an X card), and it feels like it may just end up being something silly on the side that gets pushed aside to make room for maps and I'm not sure if it'd seem really goofy or really useful.

BESW

Safety tools, as structured procedures designed by someone else that we bring to a game, aren't necessary. But safety tools, as mindfulness about explicitly creating spaces for non-judgemental conversation about meeting our needs, I think absolutely is necessary for healthy play.

@PeterCooperJr. I like using Script Change, at the very least the filed-down version presented in Lady Blackbird, because its narrative conceit integrates better than things like the X-Card so that it doesn't feel as much like something outside and extra.

To that end, I made Script Change buttons for Discord. They're a bit rough but I thought I'd share them for anybody who's interested.

Helwar

@BESW Care to explain how one would use those?

Black Spike

12:29 AM

My gf's Main Group has "taster Sessions" for new players. Not that they go all-out-gonzo on them, but an evening of "This is how we play. I hope you get the idea". Specially scripted Adventures including the 'sort of thing you can expect" ... .including pre-game warnings of "If you don't like "X", you'll probably not fit our table"

BESW

I'll copy-paste from my explanation in Discord...

Peter Cooper Jr.

@BESW Thanks for the suggestion. I may do something like that.

BESW

> Script Change is a support tool that I really like, it's got pre-game and post-game elements as well but the core of it is these buttons which let everybody at the table take on a director role to control the game.
Fast Forward is for when there's something that we want to skip over, like we think a scene is ready to end but nobody's ending it, or there's a sex scene or a torture scene that we're gonna fade to black on.
Rewind is for when you wanna go back and do something over differently, like you realize your character would never have acted that way or things got darker than you're co…

At my Lady Blackbird con table I used FF/RW/P (the little white squares are the buttons):

At the con I used FF to skip an interrogation scene that was both lasting too long and becoming too brutal, so we jumped straight to acting on the information. Later I used FF just to skip a boring "going from one place to another" scene. And a player used Pause to call for a bio break.

Helwar

That's cool

BESW

In Honey Heist a couple weeks ago we used Replay to go back over a complicated scene and make sure everybody had the same understanding of what happened. It wasn't "problematic," just complicated.

Black Spike

12:34 AM

We often use "Fade to black"/"camera-pan to fireplace" for "fast-forward". Yeah the thing happens .. we don't need to talk out all the detail. It happens, let's move on

BESW

Exactly. Fade to black is a safety tool, when it's being used mindfully.

Helwar

I feel like my friends would abuse the fast forward. They already drive me nuts with their "We want to go there. We are there already" And I'm like... would you let me decide please if you go there unmolested or not?

Shalvenay

@BESW divergent understandings of a scene can be a major pain in the butt to deal with

Helwar

But for a game with someone who is not my friends...yeah!

Black Spike

@Helwar Yeah, I hear that!

BESW

12:35 AM

@Helwar Sounds like you could use a Pause button.

(Safety tools are for GMs too!)

Black Spike

But it's not for "Skipping boring/atmospheric/Scene-setting stuff, and just getting to the Fight!"

Helwar

haha, yeah I guess

BESW

Before I got tools like the Pause button, I'd call for snack/bathroom breaks when I needed time to figure something out.

Peter Cooper Jr.

And somewhere I heard that it's helpful for the GM to use the cards/buttons/etc. just to help normalize them.

BESW

@PeterCooperJr. Absolutely. I actively look for an opportunity to use a tool, because people tend not to use them until I have.

Black Spike

12:37 AM

@BESW I still do. And openly! "OK, you want to do that? I shall have a quick think/bio, and return with an answer"

@PeterCooperJr. YES. the GM has a lot of power/responsibility in that sense. it is "their" game (your table may vary) ... so the GM freely using the Tools wills normalise it, and 'allow' players to use them

BESW

(And if I can use the tool for something that's not dire and dramatic, all the better. Normalizing tools as part of play, rather than treating them as rare break-glass-in-case-of-emergency options, really helps.)

Helwar

I'd have to try it. I feel like I wouldn't use it right now. But in the right group with people using it, it feels like it would be helpful

BESW

(That's one reason I don't like the X card; it's got just one setting and that's FULL STOP HIT THE BRAKES.)

(There's not much nuance there, the group has to bring all the nuance themselves and that's silly, structured tools are there to help us with stuff we aren't good at yet.)

Black Spike

@Helwar Maybe introduce it in a less Formal manner. Use some the Words ("Let's 'Fast Forward' this bit" .. "Shall we 'Replay' that? Just so we know where we all are?") ... no Cards, no Rules, no Check Lists, just some friends agreeing on a Method

Helwar

Little interruption: One of my co-players just sent me his character sheet so I could review it. It's a Tortle druid named A'Tuin... This guy doesn't even know what the Discworld is. He just searched "turtle names" in google and came out with that...
Please resume the tools topic! :)

BESW

12:43 AM

[amused]

Black Spike

:)

It's Tortles all the way down!

BESW

[checks] Carnival Row has about 500 words on safety, consent, and communication. It suggests the X-Card, of course, because that's practically synonymous with safety tools now.

But it does mention that there are other tools, which is good. And the rest of the text is decent, it's focusing on 'taking care of each other' and 'keeping communication open' and I can get behind that.

Black Spike

(I'm very happy to discuss Safety Tools etc in a theoretical manner. And give unsupported advice on how to use them. I have no experience with Formal Systems)

Helwar

You said Carnival Row, my spider sense tingled, then I noticed your starred message about the Tabletop RPG. I'm already downloading it

BESW

@BlackSpike I'm not good at using them yet, but I'm getting more experience.

Black Spike

12:47 AM

@BESW X-card, I think, has become the 'poster child' of Safety Tools. "Here's a Thing!" ... yes there are other things, but now you know that the whole idea exists!

BESW

> Safety tools are a small part of a wider philosophy in gaming: The GM is not adversary to the players, even if their role is as adversary to the player characters. [...] Consent is how we safely collaborate for fun and pleasure, growth and entertainment. It's how we learn to be human together.
https://twitter.com/Anarisis/status/1170792612942381057

Black Spike

It's good to have a "Known Name", such as "X-Card", if only so we can point at it and say "Good Idea, but we can do better! make sure everyone knows this is a Thing"

BESW

@BlackSpike yeah, but it's rapidly becoming for safety tools what D&D is for RPGs, or Lovecraft for horror: synonymous with, rather than an example of.

Black Spike

@BESW Whats's the PbtA phrase? "Be a Fan of the Players"?

BESW

@BlackSpike I think that's it, yes.

Black Spike

12:51 AM

@BESW Yeah, that happens. It's a paradox. If it's not well-known, it;s irrelevant. If it IS well-known, it is the ONLY way ... :(

Peter Cooper Jr.

So now, my next question is: How do I get more people in my campaign so that I have to actually worry about things like safety tools? Challenge #1 is that it's hard to go elsewhere since we have 5 kids (some of whom have extra needs) so getting babysitting on a regular basis is challenging, so we host at our house. So we can host, which works fine as long as players are okay with kids running around while we play and the occasional diaper-changing break and such.

Helwar

All these safety tools are new to me, never even heard of this X-card. To me, it was all about communicating what we wanted to play and how we felt. I know it's not enough, you said that already. That's maybe why I feel so iffy about it? In a way I find it's kinda sad that we need to "standarize" and "regulate" to get to that point. Some idealistic part in me wants to believe I'd do it all ok and noone would need to use any of those buttons on me

Peter Cooper Jr.

Challenge #2 is that major population centers are 45+ minutes away

Though it's not like I'm really rural

BESW

@BlackSpike I'm also reminded of the silly section of Romancelandia authors which occasionally cries out that they shouldn't be expected to include explicit consent in their characters' sexy-times because consent isn't sexy. And I'm like "...I'm sorry, but if Ursula Vernon can write a whole novel about navigating supernaturally complicated issues of consent and make it one of the hottest things I've ever read, actual romance authors can probably manage."

Peter Cooper Jr.

Just rural enough that posting on reddit's /r/lfg isn't really getting enough

Black Spike

12:53 AM

@Helwar Sounds like you've been thrown in the Deep End! :) Gaming with Strangers is a different Table to Gaming with Friends. There a re a LOT of different people out there

BESW

@Helwar Here, this is a good reference/toolkit for familiarizing oneself with safety tools as a concept and as specific tools.

Helwar

Thanks!

BESW

And yeah, it'd be really really nice if being friends who love each other was enough to guarantee we never hurt each other. I would be all over that in a heartbeat.

Black Spike

@BESW It is a Noble Aim.

Helwar

I should go, I have to go to the dentist in 7 hours, and it wouldn't be very fun if I'd started yawning with her tools in my mouth

Black Spike

12:55 AM

@Helwar haha

Peter Cooper Jr.

@Helwar My wife did actually fall asleep in a dentist's chair once.

trogdor

@BESW lol Swordheart I assume

BESW

But we're imperfect people and we make mistakes--and mental health is extra messy to the point that even our best friends might not feel comfortable just blurting out their stresses unless we've made careful space for them.

Black Spike

Good luck with the Mouth Molester!

(I have so many things I 'darent' say to my bestest mates!)

Helwar

@PeterCooperJr. It's impossible for me. I have a small mouth, like, i have to strain a lot to open it enough for her to work, and my gag reflex is turned up to eleven

@BESW Yeah, sometimes those close to you are the ones you can't tell what's in your heart

BESW

12:57 AM

For me, safety tools are like seatbelts or brushing my teeth or making a living will. I'm not looking to crash my car or get a cavity or go comatose, but it's smart to take preventative measures and to have safety nets when the preventative measures aren't enough.

3

The fact that safety tools also make my games better even when nothing's going wrong, is an added benefit.

@trogdor Yes, that.

Black Spike

@BESW Indeed. It's good to have things in place, so you never need them :)

"Take an umbrella, so it doesn't rain"

Helwar

well, again, @BESW, sorry if I offended you, It was never my intention

BESW

Most of the time, safety tools are like brushing your teeth. You smell better, people are happier to be around you, and you don't have as many long-term problems.

trogdor

@BESW I wouldn't call it the hottest thing I've read considering I have some other romance novels I've managed to read but the navigated consent is still awesome

BESW

@trogdor I've read much much steamier, sexier romance novels, but that explicitly negotiated consent is just woof.

trogdor

1:00 AM

True

BESW

And Vernon's not a romance novelist. She's a horror writer who keeps writing childrens' stories instead.

So if she can do that...

Helwar

well I'm leaving, see ya! Thanks for the enlightening discussion :)

Black Spike

@Helwar (Not speaking for @BESW) I think we're just all coming from different places. That's the point of discussions. :) "I'm here" ... "oh. I'm -here-" ... "Oh look, I didn't know that " .... "lets look fro a path from -here- to -there- ...

@Helwar Laters!

trogdor

@BESW it's true, I just read Minor Mage a couple weeks ago and I was like "should this be in a kids book?" Several times

BESW

@trogdor Apparently her editor does a lot of "Noooooo!" in the margins and forces her to take things out that would get her kicked off the Scholastic catalogs.

trogdor

1:06 AM

Lol, of course

BESW

And next month she publishes her first actual horror novel advertised as such.

user15026

Aww man I missed Ursula Vernon talk AND safety tools talk :(

trogdor

Oh what is that called?

BESW

@trogdor The Twisted Ones

Black Spike

@Ash you didn't miss much Vernon. Still ongoing :)

trogdor

1:11 AM

@BESW ah ok cool

BESW

@PeterCooperJr. I assume that you're more interested in hugspace gaming than online gaming?

trogdor

@Ash quick something something to do with Badgers

user15026

@BESW I can't decide if I can handle reading this....

user15026

But omg I echo all the squee over Swordheart. THAT BOOK WAS SO GOOD. And it was SO good about consent and stuff. She does it better than...a lot of the romances I read and I read...a lot.

BESW

@Ash One of her beta readers apparently got an actual jump-scare out of it? That's talent.

user15026

1:12 AM

@BESW Augh. I wonder how it would compare to like Mira Grant books

trogdor

@BESW she better not have put jumping paper in there

BESW

> Ursula Vernon's [written under the pseudonym T. Kingfisher] The Twisted Ones, which is coming out soon, is remarkable in that it managed to achieve a jump scare while being a book. This is, I might add, the first book that has made me go 'AH!' and chuck my Kindle away from you, suspicious of both the content and the fact it made me went 'ah.' I think a lot of it is tethered to Vernon's conversational prose, the way she builds up characters and friendships, ties people together into this beautiful landscape of interactions where everything feels familiar, everything feels like a life you'd…

I feel like it's what The Seventh Bride would've been like if her editor had let her.

@Ash Seanan McGuire (Mira Grant is one of her pennames, for the folks following along) got the jump-scare and called Ursula to yell at her.

Peter Cooper Jr.

@BESW Well, I'm not sure about hugs outside of my family, but yes I really want to do this offline, at a real table, with no electronics if possible.

BESW

@PeterCooperJr. Then, it's been my experience that the best way to get a gaming group that matches one's schedule and needs, is to take one's existing social group that matches one's schedule and needs, and get them interested in RPGs.

@Ash Seanan says:

> The scariest book I've ever read — or at least the scariest book I can think of right now — is The Twisted Ones, by T. Kingfisher. I literally stopped at one point, said 'Oh' aloud, and had to flee from the book, because otherwise it could see me, I guess? I'm not really sure what my logic was there. It scared the pants off of me. It's a brilliant piece. The pitch was 'The Blair Witch Project meets The Andy Griffith Show,' and it lives up to that level of promise.

trogdor

@BESW heeeeeyyyy wait a minute

XP

BESW

1:18 AM

@trogdor [whistles innocently]

user15026

@BESW And I considered Mira/Seanan to be the epitome of "no thank you" creepifying....

Peter Cooper Jr.

@BESW Yeah, that would require me to have an existing social group that met my schedule and needs. :)

trogdor

I'm definitely not sure I can read this now

user15026

@trogdor I really want to, but yeah, hard same

Black Spike

Y'all need to learn "Cat Herding"

"Oy! We're Gaming Monday! Be There!" ...

BESW

1:20 AM

@PeterCooperJr. Yeah, I hear that.

trogdor

@Ash yeah exactly

BESW

Right now my regular hugspace gaming group is... Trogdor.

Black Spike

(I'm not sure my Main Group would appreciate being called 'hugspace')

BESW

How about Punchspace?

Black Spike

closer

user15026

1:22 AM

I only have a online group right now.

Black Spike

DrinkSpace

BESW

(I really don't like idioms like "IRL" because it reinforces the idea that people online aren't real people, and that reinforces a lot of abusive online behavior.)

trogdor

Space space

Black Spike

@BESW +1

user15026

@BESW eeeergh yes

Black Spike

1:23 AM

Like, talking on the 'telephone' isn't "Real Life"

Writing Letters is hardly "IRL"

<pet peeve> damn kids, on their phones .. why don't they communicate with people? ... what do you think they're doing? WhatsApp/FB/Twitter/SnapChat ... the WHOLE POINT is that they are keeping in touch with their peers!

Peter Cooper Jr.

Anything wrong with just the term "offline"?

BESW

Negative definition.

Black Spike

meat-space

Peter Cooper Jr.

Hmm. fair.

"In person"?

BESW

"Offline" is like "uncircumcised."

Black Spike

1:29 AM

Context is, as always, everything

BESW

Yeah, I used meatspace for a while and then decided I wanted something a bit more... proactive and aspirational.

Hence hugspace.

Black Spike

@BESW Dirty Hippie :D

Apologises. I take that back

BESW

H*ck, my mother is too young to have been a hippie.

Peter Cooper Jr.

It's just that if I told my wife I was going to a new D&D game in hugspace, I'd get an… odd look

BESW

Also I am usually reasonably well-bathed.

Shrugspace?

Peter Cooper Jr.

1:31 AM

*shrug*

BESW

2

Black Spike

@BESW do we need a word. Isn't "IRL" the default? Assumed, unless we mention otherwise?

BESW

I suppose this is also a good opportunity to share this.

QI | 10 Hours of Sandi Toksvig Hugging People

►

Black Spike

@BESW WIN

BESW

(It's actually about 14 minutes, looped, but I'm okay with that.)

Black Spike

1:33 AM

@BESW Yeah, i wasn't actually going to watch all 10 hours! (or, tbh, all 14 minutes!)

trogdor

Lol

Black Spike

Star Trek TNG HD Ambient Engine Noise (Idling for 12 hrs in 1080p)

►

(A mate had a thing about these "10 hours of X" yoochoobs)

Takes me back to when we had a 30 minute "Aquarium" video (yes, VHS!). Fishes swimming about. on a 2-minute loop!

Peter Cooper Jr.

Netflix has some of those fireplace videos

Black Spike

YAY!

Peter Cooper Jr.

What's really awesome is that they're captioned for the hearing impaired. So with captions on, you see the occasional "(crackling)" or "(popping)".

Black Spike

1:38 AM

hehe

BESW

@BlackSpike This is an hour-long "Aquarium" video.

Black Spike

We used to watch them on early (UK) cable tv.

@BESW You are bad, and you should feel bad

zoidberg.gif

BESW

@PeterCooperJr. Those are so weird to me, as someone for whom fireplaces have always been exotic foreign things I only see on TV or when traveling in distant lands.

Black Spike

@BESW You never had a Real Fireplace? I'm so sorry, man.

Peter Cooper Jr.

@BESW Well, I think the whole idea is that they're for people who want one but don't have one. So now you can emulate those exotic foreign fireplaces!

Real fireplaces are much more trouble than they're worth, given that all they're good for nowadays is ambiance now that we've come up with much more efficient heating techniques.

Black Spike

1:43 AM

<Channelling my Dad> We didn't have central heating ... one room had a FIRE in it. We had to go out in the snow and get wood/coal from the shed ...

@PeterCooperJr. No, real fires are GOOD (our tree fell down, and we have to get rid of the wood. Do you have a fireplace? You want some logs?)

Peter Cooper Jr.

I live about 10 minutes from Old Sturbridge Village, a museum of life in the 1830's. It's amazing how different life was in a time that really is not that long ago.

BESW

Now, ten hours of cooking lemmai in tinfoil next to an open firepit? That might be nostalgic for me.

Peter Cooper Jr.

Well, if I have a tree that I need to get rid of, I just leave it in the woods. But I live on 50ish acres, so I do understand that it can be different in different places.

Black Spike

thecrystalwizard.co.uk/blog/blog/2019/02/05/…

My take on "Back in the olden days"

BESW

Black Spike

1:47 AM

@PeterCooperJr. Yeah, we have 3 yards wide, with a 20 foot tree across it ...

Shalvenay

@PeterCooperJr. I'd be OK with having a nice, sealed-combustion gas fireplace as a backup to a heatpump

Black Spike

@Shalvenay My grandad had a back-boiler off his fireplace, to heat the other rooms ...

BESW

@BlackSpike A lot of people here don't even use their kitchens indoors.

> "A Chamorro house is not complete without its outside kitchen," Therese asserts. "Especially in the Southern part of Guam, any household that has Chamorro families always has an outside kitchen. The inside kitchen is usually so immaculate because hardly anybody eats there. Everybody congregates on the outside. It’s easier to bring visitors into the outside kitchen than to bring them indoors. It’s more spacious, it’s cooler, it’s more inviting, people can just relax instead of taking off their shoes and going into the house. During parties or other events, the outside kitchen is the most u…

Shalvenay

@BESW would you even want an inside kitchen?

BESW

(That's just a little south of where I grew up in Malojloj; Inalåhan has the same mayor but a different church.)

@Shalvenay Fun exercise: compare google image searches for "guam outdoor kitchen" and "chamorro outdoor kitchen."

Black Spike

1:55 AM

@BESW You could fit my whole hosue in that kitchen!

user15026

@BESW That's....fascinating and interestingly telling

Black Spike

OK, it's OMG o'clock

catch y'all on the flip side

Shalvenay

2:37 AM

hey there @Glazius

Hot RPG Questions

2:51 AM

3

Q: What does a Light weapon mean mechanically?

I was going through the weapon options and I realized something: the scimitar is 3lbs and considered light, but the flail, rapier, war pick, warhammer, whip, longsword, spear and javelin are all 2 or 3 pounds each. In weight, these match the other light weapons. I don't understand what Light me...

Joshua

3:32 AM

Solution to Death House: systematic destruction via Create Bonfire

V2Blast

About to stream our D&D 5e actual-play podcast in about half an hour: https://www.twitch.tv/events/eqkjJyEhTaiWYyyIPh1J9w

In a universe adjacent to our own lies a world known as Runia. This world, once peaceful and idyllic, is now threatened by a monstrous being from its prehistory. A group of adventurers known as Whiskey Company have risen up to do what they can to fight this entity known only as Nagat. They have trekked far across the mortal realms in search of the shards of Barrinoth, the Titan of Justice, in hopes of returning him to his full power.

Ben

BESW

3:48 AM

Shalvenay

3:58 AM

@BESW the neighborhood friendly Gnoll is now wondering what gelatinous cubes taste like...

Ben

4:19 AM

Jul 9 at 4:39, by Ben

Shalvenay

hey there @user995134, welcome to the RPG.SE lair :)

V2Blast

5:05 AM

We're live btw: twitch.tv/bigdredwun

Derpy

7:35 AM

@trogdor a friend of mine recently tried to lend me one of Junji Itō books.

And nope, it wasn't the one about his cats.

trogdor

I have no idea what that means

Derpy

@trogdor he is one of the most known Japanese horror comics authors.

Junji Ito

Junji Ito (Japanese: 伊藤潤二, Hepburn: Itō Junji, born July 31, 1963) is a Japanese horror mangaka. Some of his most notable works include Tomie, a series chronicling an immortal girl who drives her stricken admirers to madness; Uzumaki, a three-volume series about a town obsessed with spirals; and Gyo, a two-volume story where fish are controlled by a strain of sentient bacteria called "the death stench." His other works are Itou Junji Kyoufu Manga Collection, a collection of different short stories including a series of stories named Souichi's Journal of Delights, and Junji Ito's Cat Diary: Yon...

There is only one safe comics he made: Junji Ito's Cat Diary, which is just a sort of parody comics about his two cats.

The one that I was given... not that one. It was one of the short stories collections.

The cover alone was enough to say "no thanks"

trogdor

7:58 AM

ah ok

I mean, normally when I read a book it's not scary no matter what is in it

but if you add visuals that's a whole other ballpark

which I assume with them being comics or manga it would have visuals

also that thing Ursula Vernon is making sounds like just a little too much for me

and it seems like it's about stuff I am personally afraid of too

kviiri

@Joshua Doesn't really solve it, though --- the house recreates itself upon being burned, so you're not really saving anyone from the perils of the house any better than just setting camp outside and telling people --- sternly if need be --- to not inside.

Derpy

8:25 AM

@trogdor yep, that is the point. And he is pretty famous too just because of how bad some of said visuals are.

But I guess it was to be expected

He started as a dental technician.

Who then started to write horror mangas

trogdor

8:38 AM

lol

Hot RPG Questions

9:14 AM

11

Q: Is the Dodge action perceptible to other characters?

Consider the following scenario: On its turn, a monster uses some movement and ends its turn without taking an obvious action. Secretly, it has taken the Dodge action. On the player's turn, the player attacks the monster. The DM instructs the player to roll with disadvantage, as the monster is do...

dnd-5e dodge

V2Blast

@Derpy interesting career transition

I suppose some people's mouths can be a horror experience

trogdor

10:42 AM

yeah

I wouldn't want the job of looking in people's mouths all day

The Oracle

11:11 AM

0

Q: Is there much point in having a [tone] tag?

So, we have a tone tag that currently only has 3 questions. I feel like it doesn't really add much on top of the tags that those questions already use. It isn't a very frequently used tag and I don't see it particularly helpful with regards to searching for "tone" related questions. Should we...

discussion tags burninate-request

doppelgreener

11:49 AM

@BESW What was it that I did around that?

BESW

@doppelgreener You just started speaking up, first in the post-game and then during the game, when you felt like stuff wasn't working for you.

doppelgreener

:)

I'm glad you were receptive.

BESW

And the fact that most of us went "Oh yeah, this WOULD be better if it was different" but hadn't said anything despite my saying that it was okay, and your feeling the need to preface your statements with caveats and apologies, showed that I hadn't been putting the effort in to make the space for it to happen.

doppelgreener

My memory of times like this is me having a safe space to speak up because when I did, people listened and talked with me and each other about it. I was never once dismissed out of hand by anybody either. All of that was important and good.

BESW

Yeah, I think we did a decent job of going "oh, this is what it's supposed to look like" when you started doing it.

doppelgreener

11:57 AM

:D

It almost invariably resulted in change. Sometimes that change was bigger, sometimes it was just "we'll do something different to help out this thing you're personally dealing with."

BESW

But for me, I'd been saying the same things for years and not getting the kind of response you were giving me, and seeing it finally happen made me realize that wasn't because I was such a great GM nobody ever had any concerns or suggestions.

doppelgreener

The times it did not, it was because we talked it over and I was content with no change.

Did you start changing how you managed things on your side?

(Was our talking over how things went post-game—whether we'd want anything to change or be different—a new thing that only started after I was speaking up?)

BESW

I'd been doing the post-game chats for years, but they were erratic and informal. I started making them consistent and deliberate.

I put more thought into how I modeled behavior in those chats, and during the game.

doppelgreener

Awesome! I liked those chats a lot. They were important, good, and gave me a specific space to bring a lot of these things up easily and naturally.

BESW

I tried the X card a few times but it never really worked. Partly because I wasn't doing it right, partly because out of the box it's a bad tool for the kind of room-to-room teleconferencing we were doing.

doppelgreener

12:01 PM

Yeah, I agree with that last bit for sure.

BESW

I also became more mindful about making those spaces as our demographics became more diverse in terms of both gender and ethnicity, because I knew there'd be more things I couldn't anticipate or recognize or rectify myself.

But as people became more comfortable to talk about their needs and goals, I learned that I had inaccurate assumptions about the other people in my group and their lives, and I got to know all my friends better.

doppelgreener

That is awesome.

BESW

I know some of our conversations during that time changed a lot of your perspectives on the world, just like they did mine.

doppelgreener

For sure

BESW

And I think that's really the best argument for universal safety mindfulness in our games--it improves our connections to the people we play with.

doppelgreener

12:07 PM

I remember also we got to have a talk about managing dark tones vs levity in games, and you were very receptive to it and I get the impression you took that on board and adjusted how you managed game tone, which I appreciate.

BESW

Yes, it also lets us explore boundaries that would otherwise be hard lines, and it lets people play who wouldn't play at all, but those are things some people/groups don't think applies to their games. But being mindful and deliberate about each others' safety just... makes us better friends.

doppelgreener

@BESW Totally. I want to learn what you're comfortable with, interested in, want to explore and stay away from, and so on, rather than just dump stuff on you and expect you to deal with it “like an adult”. (Where dealing with it like an adult should be able to include all of those first things I mentioned.)

BESW

(I think it's important to remember that safety tools in RPGs emerged from the BDSM community. They aren't designed to remove intense experiences or discourage exploring boundaries; the BDSM community created the tools to empower intensely pushing at boundaries.)

@doppelgreener Yes, exactly.

@doppelgreener I'm glad you felt my responses were productive!

doppelgreener

@BESW yessss go BDSM community

BESW

I was reminded of it today during some discussion about negative responses to Monte Cook Games publishing a free Consent In Gaming guide.

> I want to push boundaries, and the best way for me to do that is to know exactly how far everyone's willing and able to go.
https://twitter.com/ShannaGermain/status/1171911778785095680

2

doppelgreener

12:23 PM

Now that you mention it I'm thinking through how appropriate that is. In BDSM personal safety, comfort, and consent are of pinnacle importance. And you don't just check for them once and go — through various tools and practices all participants ensure all three are continuously present and the moment any are absent you stop everything to address it. Through employing all of this, everyone is empowered to safely pursue intense experiences with each other and safely push boundaries.

BESW

"Oh, we're good friends, we don't need to talk about safe words," said no proficient BDSM practitioner ever.

doppelgreener

I know a bondage expert who was once in the audience of a small suspension bondage stage performance (this is a thing that happens) and midway through he stopped the show, climbed up on stage, and cut down the person being bound, because the knot the person had just tied was bad and would restrict blood flow. If they'd waited the person may have been dead before anyone noticed and could get her down.

Everyone understood, and it was a learning experience for everyone.

BESW

Yup! Though I think that dramatic life-or-death examples do safety tools a disservice by reinforcing the common popular narrative that they're only for emergencies and their increased use means people are treating things like emergencies which aren't.

doppelgreener

RPGs aren't life or death, but I'm just telling that to illustrate how seriously they take those three pillars.

Which is to say, entirely as seriously as is appropriate.

@BESW Gotcha, fair concern

@BESW yes

A better example is more appropriate to RPGs as well: just a scenario in which one participant had potential for discomfort, so it only proceeded at a pace they were comfortable with, and regular checking was done by other participants to ensure they were doing that. They stopped and moved on to other things when it was called for.

Nyakouai

12:51 PM

Hello

Quick question to our respected elders

Someone guessed a system (I'll let you take a gamble on which one)

doppelgreener

(all of which is how I've handled it when a tabletop session in other groups has entered potentially dicey territory — and we checked with everyone beforehand whether the themes were okay)

Nyakouai

Is that worth a friendly comment to let that person know about the "no guessing on system" rule?

doppelgreener

@Nyakouai typically that involves rolling back the guess edit and pinging the person who guessed in a comment

Nyakouai

Hmm, rolling back, not as in "removing tag" ? Cause if it isn't the simple form, that'd be a first for me and I'm not sure how to/if I can do it

doppelgreener

I'm of the opinion our handling of those situations should change but that's the current process

@Nyakouai remove the tag if that's all they did. If appropriate you can also go into the revision history and hit rollback on a previous revision to go back to that revision.

Nyakouai

12:55 PM

Yeah, in this case, they're talking about Dragon Heist, so it's pretty obvious.

Argh, being snatched by work again

Was gonna ask about spoilers in question

If anyone not afraid of learning smth about Dragon's Heist could take a look here: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/156106/…

Gotta go!

Rubiksmoose

The wildshape/sword question reminds me of this old one:

2

Q: How long would it take for me to train my animal companion to use a shortsword?

I am using the UA Revised Ranger in one of our D&D games. I am currently 2nd level and have had my Ranger animal companion from the start instead of summoning him at 3rd level (the wolf doesn't gain the conclave features until 3rd level, as ruled by my DM). He is a normal wolf. I am training him...

dnd-5e weapons homebrew animal-companions training

goodguy5

I love that question

Rubiksmoose

Me too

doppelgreener

@Nyakouai Thanks. On reviewing the specific question I've opted to add the tag and leave a comment:

Since Waterdeep Dragon Heist is a D&D 5e adventure, we don't need to fret about adding the tag. There's not even guessing involved, it's D&D 5e. — doppelgreener ♦ 31 secs ago

Sdjz

@doppelgreener Teaching a user how the site works in terms of adding a system tag also does not apply here

doppelgreener

1:10 PM

I would do the same if this was a new user, since I don't know what we'd be teaching them — we wouldn't be obstinate like this if it were any other variety of tag missing.

They've included information clearly in their question about what they're doing, so we can tag accordingly, and it would be disingenuous of us to express that information is missing. We'd teach them the site badly if we closed the question requesting more information.

goodguy5

1:25 PM

Just saw this game on facebook, and I kinda dig it:
https://www.chartypartygame.com/

2

doppelgreener

@goodguy5 that looks great

Mark Wells

1:51 PM

@goodguy5 It's pretty fun. Caveats: the level of thought that went into the cards is very uneven, it's full of spelling errors, and it uses line graphs for discontinuous variables.

goodguy5

hrm...

Mark Wells

Our group has a niche for "casual, more chatty than thinky game" and it fits that well.

Nyakouai

2:42 PM

Re

Thanks for the edit, wasn't sure not to step in a plate of spaghetti there, with the double problem of tags and spoilers

doppelgreener

@Nyakouai 👍

JohnP

3:03 PM

What's with all the "wolf wielding a sword" silliness on the front page today?

Yuuki

hmm was there new pokemon news and people are getting inspired?

Nyakouai

When I read it, I thought about Dark Souls

I'm disappointed if they're asking for the new legendary with a silly name...

Yuuki

Sure but Dark Souls has been out awhile.

doppelgreener

3:22 PM

it's just one question, and I could ask a question today about a concept inspired by a game I played five years ago

Nyakouai

Anyway, it's a moot point. Pathfinder requires you to have the correct appendage to wield a weapon, and a mouth doesn't qualify as appropriate appendage for wielding a sword. On a personnal note, I worry about the neck flexibility required to effectively wield a sword, and the strain caused by the blade inertia

Sounds like a pain... in the neck

jumps for the nearest exit

JohnP

@doppelgreener Ah, I saw/read the question moose linked, and thought it was a HNQ rather than an old one. Still silliness. The physiology of the neck isn't such that it would allow an effective blow (Videogames notwithstanding)

Yuuki

JohnP

Similar question on martial arts was even less well received.

doppelgreener

@JohnP Well now, let's not let realism stand in the way of what's cool ;D

Nyakouai

3:28 PM

@JohnP Look who is the accepted answer :P

JohnP

@Nyakouai tbh I had completely forgotten I even answered that. :o

Derpy

doppelgreener

@JohnP I imagine the slightly unsettling photo didn't help matters. (Did y'all ever consider swapping it out for an image of Zoro from One Piece?)

Nyakouai

I'm not hanging on the Martial Art SE, but if I'm honest with myself, I'd probably receive such questions really poorly. I'd find it offensive for someone to come and ask completely loony stuff. Kinda like someone popping around and asking how to make DBZ fireballs via karate

(Saw that once online...)

NautArch

@JohnP "No, Please Don't." bahahahaahah

Derpy

3:34 PM

@JohnP to the poster defense, the swords are clearly replicas of the original ones used by Zoro. Which means that they are probably still metal BUT not sharpened(I see those replicas A LOT at anime conventions). At least, the danger of cuts is not that great....

hurting himself in any other way.... Not so improbable.

JohnP

@Derpy which is good. As skinny as that dude is (With pretty good flexibility, actually), I don't think he has much blood to lose. :p

Nyakouai

@Derpy Walk too close to the wall, or someone didn't see you. Hit the blade. Lose your teeth. Ouchie

Anyway, gotta go, see you

Derpy

@JohnP now just wait until next week, when someone will ask if Armaments Haki is doable. Or if he can set his leg on fire by spinning very fast.

(at least, in the case of Armaments Haki, the Shaolin monks are getting pretty close....)

Rubiksmoose

@doppelgreener Oof slightly unsettling is an understatement.

Yuuki

@doppelgreener why

Derpy

3:39 PM

@Nyakouai you are lucky if you just saw someone asking. On Youtube, users are even posting tutorials

JohnP

@Yuuki Because he looks like a skinny human version of a spider monkey?

@Derpy I'm still working on "the glow", when I get that down I'll move on...

TILT - Applejack's family names are all actual types of apples.

doppelgreener

@Yuuki because it's a weirdly contorted dude with no visible clothing

JohnP

Please tell me you are wearing underwear... — JohnP ♦ Aug 14 '14 at 17:28

How on earth did I miss Pathfinder:Kingmaker?

Oh wait, I'm not a PC gamer. That's why.

Yuuki

@JohnP Was there one that wasn't a well-known cultivar of apple?

Macintosh and Granny Smith are both pretty well-known.

The Oracle

0

Q: Hiding spoiler tagged text in question excerpts

I noticed in this question that while the OP used the spoiler tags in the body of the text the question excerpt that appears on the Stack All Questions page includes text from the spoiler. Is there a way to avoid this/guidance for question writers to start their question with enough non-spoiler...

discussion bug

JohnP

3:54 PM

@Yuuki golden delicious, gala, jonagold, honeycrisp...

Yuuki

I think the only one I didn't know on that list is jonagold. Red Delicious sucks so I spend a lot of time looking for other cultivars.

Honeycrisp is really good but last I checked, it was pretty expensive for an apple.

NautArch

@Yuuki worth the price, tho

Yuuki

There's been a lot of progress on sweet apples but I haven't seen a tart apple out there other than Granny Smith.

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