TRPG General Chat

2:14 AM

@KorvinStarmast I suppose now I'm going to have to assume that's some sort of underhanded, bad faith comment :P

3:36 AM

About to stream our D&D 5e actual-play podcast in about 30 minutes: https://www.twitch.tv/events/OyrUC_YOR6ORUeZzEDyDIg

In a universe adjacent to our own lies a world known as Runia. This world, once peaceful and idyllic, is now threatened by a monstrous being from its prehistory. A group of adventurers known as Whiskey Company have risen up to do what they can to fight this entity known only as Nagat. They have trekked far across the mortal realms in search of the shards of Barrinoth, the Titan of Justice, in hopes of returning him to his full power.

V2Blast

4:04 AM

Unfortunately, it seems tonight's episode of our podcast is canceled at the last minute tonight due to a family emergency for the DM. Feel free to join our Discord and chill with us anyway <3
http://discord.gg/FUDscxa

Ben

@V2Blast Hope everything is ok!

V2Blast

Thanks for the well wishes :)

Hot RPG Questions

4:45 AM

5

Q: Inspiration for failed idea?

Let's say one of my players comes up with an ingenious idea. It's fun, it's creative and it makes sense for their character. I want to reward them and inspiration is the obvious choice. But then they try to execute the idea and, maybe due to a bad roll, it unfortunately fails. Do I still get to g...

trogdor

5:44 AM

@HotRPGQuestions but why would you even want that? :p

Ben

The premise is that it was a really good idea, but the dice rolls failed them. Is it still worth the inspiration points

The answers generally cover the issues with that

Hot RPG Questions

6:04 AM

4

Q: What happens after an Aboleth's body is remade in the Elemental Plane of Water following its death?

According to the Monster Manual (p. 14), when an Aboleth dies, its spirit goes back to the Elemental Plane of Water to get a new body: If an aboleth's body is destroyed, its spirit returns to the Elemental Plane of Water, where a new body coalesces for it over days or months. What happens n...

dnd-5e monsters planes

Sirv

6:16 AM

I was confused for a moment

I read it as saying should I reward for attempting something suboptimal and failing

MikeQ

An idea can be both a good idea and also suboptimal

Sirv

And was thinking 'why is everyone shutting down this idea?'

suboptimal was probably the wrong word to use

trogdor

6:28 AM

@Ben yeah I know, when I respond to hot ect questions like that (or any bot in here really) it's more a joke on the basis of the title, not the actual question

BESW

6:42 AM

Oh man, Affinity Photo's symmetry tool is awesome.

I can sketch both sides of a lucha libre máscara at once.

...of course, one of the tutorial examples is a dreamcatcher which isn't very cool. [sigh]

Though, I know I'm treading thin ground with the máscaras too.

trogdor

7:01 AM

that's still a really cool tool though

BESW

Yeah, it's pretty great. The tutorial started with a moth and flowers:

I'm also loving that Affinity Publisher will update linked files in real-time.

(Adobe products don't do that, probably in part because most of Adobe's programs weren't designed by Adobe with the other programs in mind--Adobe just went out and bought the competition's programs and re-skinned them.)

trogdor

yeah Adobe seriously deserves financial death

Ben

@trogdor ahh fair enough :)

trogdor

tis an entirely fair mistake

Ben

@trogdor the only dates I get are up-dates

trogdor

7:12 AM

you can't read my mind and probably most people aren't nearly as amused by it as I am

even if they know exactly what I am doing

V2Blast

well, I'm entertained, at least

BESW

7:28 AM

BTW, Adobe is seriously desperate about cancelling a subscription.

It tries to give you the next month free, or choose a different plan, or talk to a representative to get a special offer.

And then it ends with a "You're still part of the Adobe community" splash page.

Pierre Cathé

Good morning

Derpy

I am still waiting for the day JetBrains will send me a Charity Edition license for Resharper....
Every time a new version comes out I install it, then when the trials ends and I get the prompt "Why you are uninstalling Resharper" I write down the same message.

> attempt # to make company realize Resharper is worth the money: failed.

vicky_molokh

7:44 AM

@Derpy I think its usefulness declined as Visual Studio's own convenience features got better. I seem to remember relying on it some years ago when I had it.

Nowadays I get by with VS' native functionality just fine.

Nyakouai

Good morning

trogdor

@BESW lol

Derpy

@vicky_molokh it still has some useful features, like third party library debugging - something that saved me a lot of time in a not-so-few cases

Hot RPG Questions

8:02 AM

8

Q: Does throwing a non-weapon item take an action?

Say that I know the spell pyrotechnics and am carrying a lit torch. There's a cluster of enemies a short distance from me that I want to blind, so my goal is to throw the torch onto a square within 10 feet of them and cast the spell on it. Does throwing the torch take an action even though I'm ...

dnd-5e equipment throwing-things

V2Blast

8:16 AM

finished fixing the last of the Angry DM website links :)

Derpy

8:54 AM

reposting here as for @V2Blast suggestion. Saw this on the HNQ list.

in Not a bar, but plays one on TV, 59 mins ago, by Derpy

40

Q: Did ancient peoples ever hide their treasure behind puzzles?

I just saw the film Dora and the Lost City of Gold, in which there is a somewhat meta running commentary over whether so-called "jungle puzzles", intellectual challenges typically requiring explorers to push the right buttons, pull the right levers, step on the right tiles, make the correct offer...

ancient-history science gold engineering secrecy

the closest thing to a "treasure puzzle" I once saw in a documentary were some claims about a supposed treasure hidden by some religious order (might be related to templars) that was being searched using some elaborate clues that were written in a way that would have required specific knowledge about the order to decode.

Like stone patterns arranged in the shape of constellations and so on.

but I don't remember any details

only that the island they were on was full of snakes.

As in - higher snakes/square meter in the world

Nyakouai

@Derpy Safety measure in itself

Indiana Jones is not going to crack this vault open

(Neither am I, nor am I landing a foot on this god forsaken place)

Derpy

A quick Google search shows that the show could be Treasure Quest: Snake Island. Considering that is is marketed as a "reality television series" that "follows a crew of treasure hunters"..... I am not sure about what percentage of the info in the show was real and how much was "Hollywood scripts"

Nyakouai

9:17 AM

Something to consider is that what would be considered a complex puzzle at any point in history could be quite trivial in the future.

A few centuries ago, a lock was the peak of technology and craftmanship. Now, anyone can learn to pick lock online (or, even easier, get a blowtorch at the nearest convenience store)

Kinda sad from an "adventuring" point of view

Who is gonna take the long but fun way, when you also have the quick and efficient option?

BESW

One thing I liked about Dora was that they were super clear about how looting Indigenous possessions isn't cool.

Miniman

@Nyakouai In my experience, literally no adventuring party that could possibly help it.

Derpy

@Nyakouai I think that the original question wasn't hoping for an answer about a simple lock on a metal box, even if one of the answers seems to purposely want to interpret it that way. I think the asker was hoping for something more "movie-like"

Nyakouai

@Derpy Yeah, I kinda drifted and went pseudo philosophical here. What you said just sparked my interest

BESW

Most treasure puzzles feel really weird because they're presented in the context of breaking and entering to steal somebody's stuff. Real-life "wow this is really complex to get into" stuff, like tombs with dummy passages, was done that way to keep people out forever.

Then colonizers showed up and stole the bodies to grind up into paint.

Nyakouai

9:27 AM

Fun thing, the English and French pages differs

The French page mentions it was probably most of the time made of ersatz instead of actual mummy

Derpy

@BESW yep, that was why I think that the story from the show I remembered - IF real - was a more appropriate example. In that case the clues were purposely left in a way that would enable some other member of the order to recover the treasure at a later time.

Nyakouai

Still, some psycho dug up a mummy and the first thing that go through his mind is "Cool, I can grind that and smear it on paper, it'll look stunning!"

Derpy

@Nyakouai not quite the same, but from what I know... allegedly the winner of one of the Swordquest prizes, the "Talisman of Penultimate Truth" did indeed have the brilliant idea to MELT IT DOWN so sell it as raw metal.

BESW

...I want to run a game where it turns out the whole thing is an Indigenous escape room.

Derpy

The Talos Principle is the closest thing to that that I could think of :P

but it is sci-fi, not Indy ^_^

Anyway, back to the talisman... I still don't get why anyone would want to MELT that thing.

Even if you are desperate for money, its collector value would probably have far exceeded the raw value of the gold it was made of.

Ludoss

9:57 AM

Was someone exp with Pulp Cthulhu?

doppelgreener

10:08 AM

@BESW "can i opt out of that though?"

BESW

@Derpy There's also the 1967 Doctor Who story "Tomb of the Cybermen," where a treasure puzzle turned out to be a trap made by people who wanted to capture only the very smartest tomb-robbers.

Derpy

oh, nice. Also, just remembered...since you said

53 mins ago, by BESW

One thing I liked about Dora was that they were super clear about how looting Indigenous possessions isn't cool.

you may want to watch ep 21 of MLP:FiM season 9

BESW

[takes notes]

Derpy

(it is pretty absurd since it basically contradicts most of the canon so far but it is still funny to think that everything Daring Do did up to that episode basically was a big misunderstanding)

kviiri

11:49 AM

@Derpy wow, there's a season 9? I wonder how many I've missed...

Carcer

like a bunch.

I stopped paying attention around S4 or so.

S9 will be the last, though.

kviiri

@Carcer Well. That's a relief I'd say. I hate it when shows overextend.

BESW

12:10 PM

As a Doctor Who fan, what is this "overextend" of which you speak?

Nyakouai

Star Wars 3rd and 4th Trilogy

Indiana Jones 4

Fast and Furious after ... I don't know, didn't watch, but there are too many

vicky_molokh

~~Alien 5~~ Promethean.

I forgot the crossout code again.

KorvinStarmast

~~crossout~~

vicky_molokh

Ah, three, not two.

Derpy

@kviiri the problem is not over-extension. The problem for MLP is that they switched the staff halfway thru and the new staff never understood the intended plot.

there are multiple plot holes and things that were clearly dropped

Carcer

12:17 PM

because we watch MLP for the plot, you see

[snickering]

Derpy

@Carcer please, even if that wasn't intentional, avoid that joke. I already have my own share of people that think those are funny.

Carcer

I come by way of ponibooru and derpibooru, I am ruined for this

Nyakouai

Don't want to badmouth anyone's tastes/show, but you already had me lost at "We watch MLP"

The wrapping of the show might hide pure gold, but never managed to pass through the sparkles and the ponies...

(Didn't try that hard, tbh)

Carcer

it was surprisingly good but honestly ended up going a bit downhill as Derpy says

KorvinStarmast

If a show lasts for 9 seasons, somebody is responding to it. A lot of somebody.

Carcer

12:22 PM

eh

well, yes, it is popular

Nyakouai

@KorvinStarmast Not denying it. Just perplexed at how grown adults get in the show in today's culture. Again, not judging, just really perplex

Derpy

@Nyakouai oh, that I don't care, don't worry. Is the assumption that every watcher must come from the worst parts of the fandom that hits my nerves - and that was just why I was telling Carcer to avoid those jokes

Carcer

but it benefits from being, as far as Hasbro is concerned, a toy commercial

oh

I don't assume that at all

but I am from the worst part of the fandom, at least if you're categorising by online community

Derpy

@Carcer sorry, I was a bit unclear. I didn't mean you were - but since I have already seen pretty bad name calling even on the Stack Exchange hosted chat rooms I prefer to avoid jokes that are commonly tied to double meanings.

I am pretty sure that the habitual users of this room would never post similar comments, but better safe than sorry.

Carcer

s'cool. I mean not to upset or offend

KorvinStarmast

12:30 PM

@Carcer Friends was popular, but it was dead to me. I think I saw a total of two episodes while it was running, and then because we were at someone's place and we all ended up watching it ... my suspension of disbelief regarding how they can afford that place in New York could not be resolved, among other things.

In contrast, a series that I liked (Firefly) got axed after one season. That business is rather cut throat (getting a show on TV and keeping it on)

Carcer

Firefly didn't even make it through one season, man

got killed halfway through

Derpy

Just to be clear, in the past I had to contact THREE different staff member to have some messages in a room that defined mlp fans as "mentally sick people" removed, and that was the least offensive thing that was said there. Never got ANY response from those community managers.... room level flags never worked. Only YEARS later when the issue become public since I linked those posts in another room and there was a pretty scandalized reaction by a LOT of users... those were immediately deleted.
That was why I prefer to avoid some dangerous jokes - not because I fear you can misuse them, but …

KorvinStarmast

Yeah, Fox also aired the shows out of order. What cauth me when it came out was the Whedon's ear for dialogue.

Carcer

did you not watch Buffy?

KorvinStarmast

@Carcer Nope, that show was never on my screen. I'd seen the movie and had no desire to watch a TV show (and IIRC, I was kinda busy with RL at the time and watched almost no TV besides sports on the weekends). And I was overseas for a few of those years.

As in, out of the country for the first two seasons, and when we came back TV wasn't what had my spare time. Starcraft did.

Kids were elementary school age, so we had little free time at all ...

Carcer

12:36 PM

might be worth watching if you've got free time to waste watching old TV shows. It was quite good (and doesn't really have much in common with the film besides a premise).

KorvinStarmast

@Carcer I have heard nothing but good reviews from those who have watched it. Maybe a binge watch some weekend.

Carcer

cool beans

BESW

@Carcer I watched the whole show in a week while stuck in bed with a fever --which admittedly may influence my sense of it-- but I yelled at the screen a lot about how Joss doesn't understand metaphors... or have very many tools in his kit for emotional drama.

Carcer

YMMV!

I admit I haven't properly watched buffy myself - I have seen a limited subset of episodes I think scattered across the whole run because it was just sometimes on TV when I happened to watch TV

KorvinStarmast

@BESW OK, so one not so glowing review. :)

BESW

12:41 PM

Feb 15 '18 at 21:57, by BESW

Later seasons of Buffy became more focused on their season arcs and character development, but the character development arcs started locking into Whedon's now-recognizable signature pattern of "take a character the fans love, promise them happiness, rip it away from them as horribly as possible, milk the drama, repeat."

Oct 19 '13 at 2:44, by BESW

Dear Whedon: when writing a story about female empowerment with a strong subtheme about nontraditional gendering, please don't use the same metaphor for lesbianism and nihilistic drug abuse. This is what we call "mixed messages" in polite company.

Sep 8 '15 at 3:39, by BESW

@Miniman I like the story arcs of the first seasons and find the arcs of the last seasons almost unbearable, but the technical ability noticeably improves over the course of the show so that my favourite episodes are in the last seasons.

KorvinStarmast

The creators of Breaking Bad almost took it too far, in terms of stretching their premise. IIRC, Gilligan said that after season three they had to really dig to figure out "how far can we take this thing?" IN comparison, Dexter's creators didn't know when to quit.

Derpy

Anyway, back to the original topic - I forgot to add that actually the season finale four episodes were already leaked because a streaming site once again did a mess with the air dates. Thus, the episodes were published on a site on august 25th and soon removed... not before people managed to grab them.
Didn't saw anything yet but from what I gather it seems to be a pretty fast attempt at closing up what the new staff deemed to be the loose plot points, that ends up doing a fair amount of damage to the original intended continuity

Carcer

to be honest, I think Supernatural is a pretty prime example of that as well

Seasons 1-5 are a perfectly good self-contained story which builds up to a literally apocalyptic climax and then ends, pretty neatly

Nyakouai

@Carcer You mean, which overt-extent? The one that overextend the first over-extent, or the one after that?

Carcer

should've finished with S5, was clearly written to finish at S5

Nyakouai

12:45 PM

IIRC, it was supposed to end when Sam ends up in Hell

Carcer

cursed by its own popularity and had to keep going

Nyakouai

(Was it end of season 5?)

BESW

Dec 17 '15 at 23:32, by BESW

Whedon wants to explore feminist themes. He's not often good at it.

Carcer

my recollection is that it was meant to end with S5 yes

Derpy

@BESW Trunks! -> Future is ruined again because reason -> [Insert random amount of inconclusive battles] -> FUSION that is wasted as usual -> Victory by other means -> Everyone happy but Trunks.

yep, it works for Dragon Ball too.

Carcer

12:46 PM

that is after Sam sacrifices himself

Nyakouai

Yeah, so we remember the same thing.

IMO, it peaked around the 4 horsemens, then I turned off my brain and continued watching it out of habit

Happens with a lot of overextending series

Carcer

but of course it's kept going so has to keep coming up with threats which somehow top the actual factual apocalypse

Nyakouai

@Carcer Kinda make me think of Dragon Ball

I genuinely enjoyed when Son Goku was young, then I took a peek at the next arcs. Still manage to go above and beyond the maximum power level. Brain started lagging. Closed that door

Carcer

and the character "development" is just a revolving cycle of one brother keeping secrets from the other, things going wrong, secrets coming out, sadness, promising to trust each other, repeat for the other brother

never watched DBZ?

Nyakouai

Nope. The little I've seen from it raised so many red flags, didn't try

But the universe sounds a lot like the original over-extent

BESW

12:51 PM

Feb 26 '17 at 22:57, by BESW

The extent of my familiarity with DBZ is the time in college a friend took me to a fancy restaurant specifically for the purpose of spending the entire evening explaining it to me.

Derpy

@Nyakouai it gets worse and worse from there. At the start of DB Super they can cause the end of the universe by PUNCHING each others. And then... they punch each other perfectly fine for the rest of the show.

Carcer

yes, DB does suffer a constantly escalating power level problem

Nyakouai

@BESW I had once a date that went like that

It was a long date

BESW

Oh, hey, DC had a thread about this today...

Derpy

@Carcer I think it is only by karma that now the Super Saiyan levels change in hair color just like enemies recolors do in older jrpgs

BESW

12:53 PM

"Compelling magic systems in design and how we combat the power-scaling issue," a twitter thread by DungeonCommandr.

Nyakouai

Pinning it for later reading

BESW

It's long and rambly but good.

Nyakouai

Actually, the work proxy doesn't ban Twitter (totally logic), so I get to read now while the tests run

Nyakouai

1:12 PM

I like how HxH provides extremely good examples to this thread... then completely shoots itself in the foot with the Chimera Ants arc

goodguy5

1:40 PM

@BESW My Dinner with Android 18.

KorvinStarmast

@BESW The original Vancian magic system in D&D reflected the point that DC makes: Power has to come from cost (I am pretty sure I have the extract from Strategic Review in an answer here somewhere) A lot of video game systems don't, or can't, do that since using cool down times on spells and abilities gets received differently by various playing audiences. The twitch happy gamers don't like it.

This is part of it but that was modeled on parties of 5-10 players. When a game is built on three or four players, then that concept may not work as well.

One of the things League of Legends (not a role playing game) did a good job at was adjusting cool down times for "now and again" skills and "always on" skills, and then choices to adapt that ... but as I have not played that in a long time, no idea what they have done with it lately.

Yuuki

1:59 PM

@KorvinStarmast These days, there's a common belief that cooldown reduction from items is far too accessible.

KorvinStarmast

@Yuuki in LoL?

Yuuki

It used to be that you'd have to purposefully build for maximum cooldown reduction.

@KorvinStarmast Yeah.

KorvinStarmast

They become a choice, or an opportunity cost issue: you get cool down, but that means you don't get "X" instead.

Yuuki

But these days, it's pretty easy to hit the 40% cap, particularly if you're a mage.

All three of the most common first-built items for mages right now have 20% CDR.

KorvinStarmast

@Yuuki Oh, really? Sorry to hear that. (I am still mad at them about the changes to Gangplank a few years ago. I love providing indirect fire/artillery across the screen in the old way ..)

Yuuki

2:01 PM

Granted, 10% of that CDR is a unique passive so it doesn't stack.

kviiri

I think it has to do largely with the fact that in usual fiction, you can easily present a variety of costs associated with magic. Maybe your skin turns a bit more purplish every time you cast a spell, maybe you draw the apocalypse closer every time you do, etc. Or just something simple like lose your soul.

Yuuki

@KorvinStarmast How do you mean? They didn't remove his ultimate.

KorvinStarmast

@kviiri Robin Hobb did a decent thing with that in the first three Farseer books, but she got a little monty haul in the later books.

@Yuuki his whole kit changed, and there are a bunch of riders to the ult that IMO overly complicated things.

kviiri

Games don't usually have that privilege since whatever option you pick, it has to make game mechanical sense. There's of course no single definition of what game mechanics should go for, but as an example a game that is supposed to be largely about combat would probably not work well with costs that are largely irrelevant to combat.

Yuuki

I suppose the champion-specific currency thing is a bit weird.

But his barrels make for an actually interesting playstyle over the ability it replaced (which was just giving himself a buff).

KorvinStarmast

2:03 PM

@Yuuki Yeah, I stopped playing a while back. The changes to the runes and skills and back end stuff had me shaking my head, for all that their intention was to streamline it

@Yuuki Barrels made GP more "skill intensive" to play. I liked to have some heroes be more simple, medium, and then complex. Taking one of the less complex and making it more complex didn't please me since I liked where he was at.

But I do agree that the barrel's feature does raise the amount of tacitcal flexibility GP has'

Yuuki

Mmm, there are a few micro-intensive plays you could make with barrels, I suppose.

KorvinStarmast

They also did that thing with Corky that every few returns to base he gets that booster pack. I guess I like it, but I also don't. Too may fiddly bits ...

Yuuki

That booster pack is nice for highlight plays but I think the bigger part of that rework was that his auto-attacks were changed to deal 80% magic damage.

KorvinStarmast

If I were to play LoL again, I'd have to relearn from scratch and they now have that chess game thing. My son showed it to me. It's a whole new game.

Yuuki

To be fair, you can completely ignore TFT.

KorvinStarmast

2:07 PM

@Yuuki Yes, more of a blue build

Yuuki

It literally is a whole separate game.

KorvinStarmast

@Yuuki The one run through we did was really interesting. But you are right, it is a whole new game.

Yuuki

I dunno if you were here for the Poppy rework, but that's probably my favorite rework.

It turned her into one of my favorite champions.

KorvinStarmast

@Yuuki Only played her once a long time ago. I guess I need to take a look. Not sure if I have her on my account, but I have a bunch of riot points I could spend on her. Hehe. Wife out of town this weekend, maybe I get to LoL for a bit.

Yuuki

Basically made her more of a tank to match her lore rather than the weird pseudo-assassin playstyle she had before.

KorvinStarmast

2:11 PM

@Yuuki OK, sounds good to me. I remember I liked playing the earth elemental guy and the big ox (begins with A?) man, I can't even remember half of the names. My default was Sona / support, or Kami, or GP or Corky.

Yuuki

Her Q does small AoE damage and leaves an area that detonates a few seconds later for more AoE damage. Her W projects an aura that interrupts all dashes in the vicinity. Her E is her old tackle-into-a-wall-stun. Her ult is a charged-up line skillshot that launches all enemies back towards their base.

Her passive now gives her a single ranged auto-attack every couple of seconds that either drops an object that she can pick up for a shield or returns to her and shields her if she manages to kill a unit with that auto-attack.

There was actually a couple games where I played her in the jungle and I would launch the enemy jungler back towards their base while they were taking neutral objectives and steal them.

Ooo, found the video.

Dragon Steal w/ Poppy Ult

►

@KorvinStarmast Malphite used to be an old standby of mine in toplane and Alistar is probably one of my favorite supports.

KorvinStarmast

@Yuuki Man, SNeaky! :)

JohnP

whurg. I spent 30 minutes looking at various maps last night. I'm cross/bug eyed this morning.

Elemental Plane of Math

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