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12:01 AM
@Ash It's just like using pumpkin puree, but don't replace the water.
 
user15026
Oh, that seems doable enough.
 
12:16 AM
@Ash Yeah, from what I can tell, avocado can chemically replace butter 1:1 in most baking projects.
Taste-wise, YMMV.
I also used it to replace the egg in brownies and cookies and got good results.
 
user15026
I am curious about it because it might be easier to use it than trying to find vegan butter and likely more cost effective
 
user15026
Because there is stuff I would love to make for my friends but it is all omg you need vegan butter and a) I still haven't found any reliably and b) when I do it is mad expensive.
 
@Ash there are dairy free margarines available, but it takes a fair bit of label reading at the grocery store. (Blue Bonnet Light is the stuff we use on that front. Fleischmann's Unsalted used to work, but I haven't seen it around in a while)
 
user15026
Right, but margarine is not the same as butter necessarily in baking either
 
12:32 AM
@Ash yeah. we're fortunate to have a reliable supplier of a good vegan butter substitute (MiYoko's) over here, but that stuff is NFG for the butter dish at the table (it will melt if you leave it out at room temp)
 
1:03 AM
@Ash When avocados are in season here, everybody with a tree in their yard is desperately trying to give them away.
 
user15026
@BESW too bad I can't get in on that :p
 
My mom went to lunch with a friend yesterday and came back with four massive fruits.
Sometimes when I'm at a theater production meeting, somebody will plop a bag of them down on the table and beg people to take them.
I love living in a place where growing your own food is just a thing people do on whatever scrap of land they have access to.
 
user15026
I suspect it is like zucchini season here.
 
@Ash I saw the GBBO episode with the zucchini fruity cake!
 
user15026
(I always get piles of zucchini in my farm share and I endup baking with it and just everyone I know for a while gets zucchini bread)
 
user15026
1:07 AM
@BESW excellent!
 
@BESW yeah, there's some definite perks to that for sure
 
@Ash I just can't see zucchini without remembering The Zucchini Warriors.
 
user15026
It has been a looooong time since I read that book.
 
1:37 AM
death /dəθ/ n. The penalty for trying and failing to dispose of a lich.
 
1:54 AM
hey there @user11565709, welcome to the RPG.SE lair :)
@Joshua what do you do when the lich is someone you don't want to dispose of? :P
 
Probably, leave it alone.
 
 
1 hour later…
3:12 AM
1
Q: Do you need to let the DM know when you are multiclassing?

Undead-bedheadI am planning to multi class and am curious if there is anything that says that I have to let my DM know prior to the game.

 
 
2 hours later…
4:56 AM
4
Q: What should I discuss with my DM prior to my first game?

Undead-bedheadWhat should I discuss with my DM prior to my first game? Classes, races and sub-races? There is a lot of info in multiple sources; any word on what to discuss with DM? I'm new to D&D.

 
5:18 AM
@BESW Now that's avocado toast!
 
@Rubiksmoose I think avocado bread is the next experiment, so... yes.
 
 
1 hour later…
6:22 AM
Good morning
Or whatever time you're having :)
 
6:33 AM
good middle-of-the-night to you too
 
[wave]
 
 
7 hours later…
1:27 PM
@Akixkisu hook me up with that drug spread sheet! [EMAIL REDACTED]
 
Ben
1:37 PM
Evening all - I just wanted to pop in and say that Godzilla 2 comes highly recommended, and there is a post credits scene
It is a hearty romp-a-stomp, plenty of monster action, with a running commentary storyline to explain Godzilla's motives, some not-so-subtle cheesy references, which I feel all add up to a great monster movies
 
2:03 PM
hey there @Ben, how're things going?
 
 
2 hours later…
user15026
3:47 PM
@Ben this mostly reminds me I have never seen a Godzilla movie
 
3:57 PM
Does this post: rpg.stackexchange.com/a/80894/44723 that is linked to a question on our activity page require moderator intervention or is it fine/should merely be downvoted instead?
 
4:19 PM
Morning, @Shalvenay. Ping me at the top of the hour, or whenever you're ready to start.
 
@Glazius okiedokie :)
 
@Akixkisu It does look somewhat like a spambot post. But if it's an trying to answer the question, then it isn't really violating any site policies and doesn't require mod intervention.
Mods don't need to ensure that all questions and answers are well-researched and coherent; that's what the community is for.
4
 
4:44 PM
Yeah, I think it's just kind of a bad answer, but it is a genuine attempt at an answer
Same as the olive oil one
so best handled by votes/comments rather than mod intervention
 
5:27 PM
@Shalvenay @Glazius Are the time zones out of sync again or were we supposed to be playing now?
 
That's about what I thought, yeah.
 
@ACuriousMind we'll be playing here soon
got wrapped up in something
 
Thanks for the input! @V2Blast and @MikeQ
 
 
3 hours later…
8:41 PM
@Shalvenay @ACuriousMind Hey, what do you know, I found it! drive.google.com/file/d/0B8_Fz4m5hcoiNEJaZkQwT2NUVFE/view ...man, now I have Additional Rundrig Ideas.
 
8:52 PM
Heyo all
 
hey there @SouthpawHare, how're things going?
 
Pretty well!
Life is good at the moment
I'm trying to do some reflection on RPGs, and figure out some tough questions about what makes which ones appealing to me and my friends
For like the last 1.5 years almost, we've been jumping around from system to system and experimenting a lot with many systems
Tons of them. Rules-lite, rules-medium, and rules-heavy. Narrative and simulationist. Modern Mainstream, Classic Retro, and Indie Kickstarters.
 
ah
 
And even with all this data, it's really hard to draw any solid conclusions on what we like or dislike.
 
I finally am getting a chance to try to run DW, although I'm pretty sure I'm butchering the system in some ways XD (but a bunch of that is due to the nature of my campaign -- there hasn't been a single actual dungeon crawl in it, all the battles have been more war-skirmishes than anything else)
 
8:57 PM
We've played a good amount of Dungeon World
It's appealing due to the lessened need for the GM to prepare material and the added input of players
But it is problematic due to its greater need to improv and be assertive, for everyone involved.
 
I kinda like the system myself, but probably will need help coming up with my next campaign/adventure conceit if I want to run it again
 
If you have players or a Gamemaster that lack confidence or real-life quick thinking, the game falls apart.
For that reason, although the rules are super simple, it feels like it actually requires experienced, veteran RPG players
 
@SouthpawHare speaking of PbtA systems, did you see Glazius' post LFP to give Fellowship a whirl?
@SouthpawHare yeah, I feel like I don't have the rules really down, esp. with regard to how to DM it
 
Please expand the acronyms, I don't follow them
Powered by the Apocalypse, I assume
Aaaand...
 
@SouthpawHare oh :) PbtA = Powered by the Apocalypse (the base family of systems AW, DW, Fellowship, Masks, and so on are from)
 
9:02 PM
Little Fig Planet
 
haha, LFP = Looking For Players :)
 
Gotcha
I haven't heard of Fellowship
And I don't really peruse LFP posts online, so no
 
@SouthpawHare It's starred in the bar on the right side of chat, if you're in browser mode:
2 days ago, by Glazius
Seeking players for a demo of Fellowship (am in -5 GMT), playbooks in the link. It's a PbtA game about an Overlord, threatened communities, and the heroes (and tagalong siblings, experimental automobiles, big lugs, little guys, and delicious packed lunches) that protect them. Playbooks available at https://tinyurl.com/FellowshipPlaybooks
 
@SouthpawHare ah, it's pinned to the starboard in this channel
 
Gotcha
I'm not looking to play online right now. I have a group of friends in-person.
Our problem is just figuring out what it is we like and what system we can enjoy for an extended period of time
We've tried probably a bit over a dozen systems together
 
9:05 PM
@SouthpawHare aah
 
Sounds like you probably now have a solid sense of what specific bits of gaming are desirable or undesirable.
And you're just looking for what best matches that set of goals?
 
Heh, maybe. Or maybe I'm more confused than ever.
 
From what little you'd said above, I'd guess that a game with a highly structured narrative form might be a good fit. Something like Lady Blackbird, maybe.
 
One big paradox is that of Gamemaster exhaustion. Some games we've run involve a lot of creative forethought and planning, which means hours of prep every week. Generally, this is not sustainable, and a person can only run a "campaign" of this for 3 or 4 sessions before they literally just run out of ideas and/or time/energy to come up with them.
 
yeah, my group has been focusing on low/no prep games the last several years and it's been great.
 
9:09 PM
So we've tried systems where the players have a lot of input: Dungeon World, Mythic, other GM-less systems or collaborative-play systems.
But the problem with THOSE is that they are silly and unfocused. There's never a meaningful, coherent story, and it's hard to get into characters in a serious way because everything is all over the place.
They're basically "Party Games"
 
Ooh, I do think you might like Lady Blackbird, then.
 
So that's our biggest problem axis: Substance with too much effort vs. Collaborative but too silly
I've already done Lady Blackbird before
 
How does it triangulate with your needs?
 
I didn't play it with this group, but it was.... eh? I feel completely neutral about it.
We played a one-shot, we played pre-made characters I had no interest in, and we busted out of prison on a ship.
 
Silly and unfocused may be a sign of poor group calibration.
 
9:13 PM
Oh yes? Tell me more of your thoughts, please.
@BESW Do you have further thoughts on this?
Anyway, it's certainly possible
 
@SouthpawHare Had to go help my dad onto the bus.
 
No problem
 
Calibration is where the group makes sure everybody's on the same page in terms of their goals for the game, and it's often neglected because we assume that choosing a system means we all have the same expectations about what play will be like.
 
Yeah, I get that
You're probably right that we don't have it
 
There's lots of ways to calibrate and I don't have a particular way to recommend; the Same Page Tool is a popular way to do broad playstyle expectations, while A Spark in Fate Core is an easily genericized way to point at specific media inspirations and identify what elements of them the group wants to draw on for the game.
 
9:27 PM
@SouthpawHare I've been in this situation - the GM thinks they want to run a huge campaign, but then the logistics and the writing lead to a sortof burnout, especially if the GM feels like they contribute more during sessions than the players. One method for managing this is to occasionally let someone else GM and write content, possibly using a different story or system. This gives the regular GM time to refresh and generate new ideas.
 
We've considered how much we're on The Same Page, determined that we never will be, and tried to make it work anyway.
Yeah, I know all about The Same Page Tool. But the social ramifications of it are more complicated than it seems.
 
I find that "silly" is a common symptom of uncalibrated groups because when we're nervous and unsure people often default to a joking position as a defensive choice--not consciously, but it's a common theme.
And "unfocused" is pretty straightforward: if everybody's got a different idea about what game we're playing, the game will quickly sprawl in many different directions at once.
I find that the SPT is not especially great for my circumstances, but it's popular and so I mention it.
 
The issue is that we want the group to work no matter what, as priority 1, regardless of whether we're on the same page or not
So we try to make it work even though we're not, and know we're not
 
Interesting. That's not my impression of how the SPT works, but again it's not a tool I've used successfully.
 
I don't think that's how it's supposed to work, no
But the way it IS supposed to work would mean that we just never play anything
 
9:31 PM
re: campaigns: episodic adventures and short-form campaigns solved a lot of GM burnout for us.
 
The real answer would be, "Just stop. Go find another group, or don't ever play."
 
If the priority is keeping the particular player group together, then maybe try systems that are outside of what people usually play. e.g. if folks can't agree on how they want their heroic combat fantasy TTRPG to go, then try a system that doesn't try to do heroic combat fantasy.
 
Long-form campaigns got in the way of a lot of our group's sustainability, not just GM burnout.
By playing stories which only last one to three sessions, prep doesn't become burdensome, attendance commitments aren't onerous, there's room to share GM responsibilities, and the ability to rotate between systems so no single system has to meet ALL requirements ALL the time.
 
anyone know what homebrew artificer this is referring to?
0
Q: Dipping two levels into Artificer for the ability 'Arm Guard' under the Improved Artificer PDF

MichaelIn the artificer PDF I have, you can spend two invention points into getting a robotic arm and with it you gain 'Arm Guard'. I'm maining a druid which would be at level 4 now if I take 1 level into Artificer. Here's what it does: Arm Guard: You craft a mechanical hand that can create a shiel...

given the original formatting of the quoted text, I'm guessing OP typed it up themselves, and googling excerpts from the quote doesn't seem to help
 
My group uses a variety of low/no prep systems and just picks whichever one we feel like using that particular day. Golden Sky Stories, Cthulhu Dark, TERRORSAUR, Honey Heist, Pilgrims of the Flying Temple, Bell Stories, Masters of Umdaar, Bubblegumshoe, etc.
 
9:36 PM
@V2Blast There's like 100^100 different homebrew artificers. Also I think you put the user's question into the quote box.
 
low-prep and no-prep systems might sometimes be even more exhausting, to be honest...
 
How so?
 
@MikeQ good catch
 
We have several people, including myself, who is most often the GM because I'm the most gung-ho about RPGs in general, who have a lot of social anxiety and difficulty with improvising quickly and being put on-the-spot
I've been working on that skill for over a decade, and it's still a problem
 
Ok, so maybe the group prefers more structured systems, so there's less stress due to improv. You can still use those systems to run short form campaigns.
 
9:39 PM
> Homebrew artificer. When your dice come up three of the same (+++, ---, or OOO) you can spend a fate point to get the stunt of your choice for the rest of the scene. If you don't spend a fate point, instead you gain a fate point and lose a stunt of your choice for the rest of the scene.
 
I know I do like structure. But that tends to come with complexity. I have some people that are pretty anti-crunch and are super turned off by mechanics that are too complex.
But then again, I have some people that are anti-simplicity too...
Yeah, I feel like we're just impossible incompatible
 
My solution to that was to run Fate.
It's totally reasonable to run super-low-crunch Accelerated or even skill-less Fate characters alongside extremely high-crunch Atomic Robo or Dresden Files style characters, so long as you tweak the number spread a little.
 
Tried Fate before. It was rather difficult to figure out the right subset of rules that worked for us.
 
hey @MikeQ, can you send me that link for House of Bards again plz?
 
And while Fate CAN be super big on player improvisation, it doesn't have to be (and again, you can run it so each player is operating on their preferred level).
 
9:43 PM
@SouthpawHare Again, maybe jostling people out of their system comfort zones (occasionally) could help the players be more open to different styles of play.
 
Hmm
This is such a complex social puzzle
 
@MikeQ @Shalvenay Did you see my messages in the back room?
 
@V2Blast I did
 
I also kind of wonder what it is about some systems that make the mechanics distracting (which is probably super opinion-based)
Like, for example, I've really grown away from all forms of D&D, because I can't make a character and not see them as a series of mechanical numbers. It seems impossible really get into a character with those specific rulesets.
 
9:48 PM
@SouthpawHare I find that it's usually when the mechanics are kinda all over the place, and the gameplay is frequently interrupted by someone saying "Hold on, doesn't such-and-such rule apply here?" "Let's look that up." And then the gameplay becomes more about mechanical correctness than a fun story or creative interaction.
 
Bookkeeping and ludonarrative dissonance.
 
And yet... I don't feel that way at all about other, fairly similar systems
Interestingly, Anima: Beyond Fantasy, which is known for being super complicated mechanically, has this problem much less than D&D IMO.
All Anima characters I make feel like characters first-and-foremost, and numbers second
Maybe it's about where your mind starts in the process?
 
Golden Sky Stories has a lot of bookkeeping, but it forces you to pay attention to the things that are important to the story so there's no ludonarrative dissonance.
 
@BESW downloaded (was considering throwing them a chunk of money, but went "ah, screw it" in the end -- the joys and sorrows of indecision)
thx
 
Like, when I make characters in some systems, I start with the creative concept, like, "I want to make a blind psychic that's kind of like Toph from Avatar, but not as boisterous". Where as in D&D I feel instinctively required to start with the class, and be like, "I want to make a Fighter, and then customize with these special abilities..."
 
9:52 PM
@SouthpawHare For me and my players, this is largely down to whether the system has trap choices.
 
And even if I understand this through self-reflection, it's still hard to go against
@BESW Hmm, maybe you're onto something there
 
D&D is rife with trap choices, where making a character creation decision that seems narratively exciting leads to a lack of actual agency in play.
 
@SouthpawHare Or more specifically, to what degree the system punishes trap choices
 
@MikeQ I mean, if you don't feel punished by the choice it's not really a trap choice?
 
That might be it. In D&D, we often feel compelled to pick the stuff that makes us effective, regardless of whether it's interesting. And times people have picked stuff for flavor, they've been punished pretty hard and horribly suck in combat.
 
9:55 PM
Yup. That's one reason we enjoyed 4e more than 3.5, before abandoning D&D entirely for other reasons.
 
@BESW I suppose something could be slightly worse than other options but still playable, vs. being essentially unplayable compared to other options
hence "to what degree the system punishes trap choices"
 
But maybe the opposite is bad, too? Like, if you're not punished at all by any choices, then you can pick literally anything and be effective?
 
D&D 4e has very few traps.
 
That leads to non-serious silliness
 
@BESW That is a positive I've heard about it - that it strove hard to level the playing field
 
9:56 PM
D&D 4E is completely immersion-breaking for me and most of my friends. It's literally "too balanced".
4th Edition that is*
 
@SouthpawHare Eh, this hasn't been my experience--in games where your choices are derived from narrative, the silliness is proportional to the group's investment in the narrative.
Silliness comes from a lack of investment, not a freedom of options.
 
Hmm, maybe
 
@BESW There are scenarios where the character could be relatively weak compared to the others, but still fun (for that player) to play
 
@V2Blast I think perfect balance really stretches believability for me.
 
I've never played 4e so I don't know how well it accomplishes it, or how exactly it accomplishes it
 
9:59 PM
I don't really buy the modern view that everyone has to be equally powerful or vulnerable to have fun. Some of the most enjoyable games I have been involved in have involved sharp differences in power.
I think the problems arise more when a specific player's power differs from what they expect
 
Heh. I wouldn't exactly call that view modern.
 
Maybe the modern part is more about how everything recharges super fast
 
[shrug] I'm not sure what we're talking about now.
 
Like, D&D 4E embraced the whole concept of, like, everyone completely healing pretty much every day, wizards never running out of spells completely, no one stays unconscious for very long, etc.
All things based on keeping engagement, but at the expense of simulating any sort of plausible reality
 
Yes, but that's not new to RPGs, nor is it a universal trend in RPGs, nor was it even new to D&D at the time; D&D 3.5 had released two whole books of classes with similar principles before 4e was announced.
 
10:05 PM
Anyway, yeah, the conversation is all over the place. Which it always had been in my head. Which is why I'm so confused and frustrated in general =P
I don't know what I want, what questions to ask, or what to try or think about next.
 
Conversation being all over the place? in RPG.SE chat? Never.
:D
 
[grin] I'm sympathetic. I've started designing games partly as a way to codify confusions.
 
Oh? Howso?
 
I was confused about Fate character creation during the Core/Accelerated beta testing, so I doodled a game where you make your character as you play.
I'm currently exploring how stories help us make decisions by defining our sense of self and the world, so I'm writing a game where stories and the lessons they teach your character are your character's "skills."
After playing Dog Eat Dog, I felt like something was missing from its themes so I wrote a little game about what I thought was missing.
 
Interesting
 
10:20 PM
I've been working on a way to drift the orks out of Great Ork Gods for a while, and recently hit on a frame I think will work.
 
@BESW I'm going to be interested to see a draft of that, I think =)
 
@BESW that might be interesting to see, yes :)
 
I've got so many projects! I should finish at least one.
And the "RPGs keep you from killing your friends" game keeps wanting me to start writing it.
I need some help with that one before I start it in earnest, to be sure I avoid sanism.
@nitsua60 Can you think of any other related inspirations I might draw on?
 
user15026
@BESW curious headtilt
 
@Ash Inspiring concept:

Setting Seed: Holodeck Breakdown

Jul 10 '14 at 6:35, 17 minutes total – 16 messages, 4 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked Jul 10 '14 at 9:52 by BESW

These days, of course, I'm a lot less interested in its potential as a horror setting and more interested in using it as a way to explore RPGs and relationships.
 
10:42 PM
@BESW Related to Aeon Flux, or related to "GoG sans gods"?
I mean, I might go with the engineering deck of the Enterprise during a crisis as another godless GoG idea?
Complicated long-con/heist?
 
@nitsua60 Fluxy stuff, resources I can draw on for a unique setting so it's not just a Flux drift.
I think the basic Flux inspiration is the version I'm most confident about being able to implement effectively, but I want to triangulate my aesthetic.
 
Are you familiar with David Ives's Sure Thing? (youtu.be/-NJhaj1nNqs, for example)
 
Apparently not!
 
Not that it has anything to do with Aeon Flux, I just think the resets are evocative.
(Whoops! Forgot about the Django Reinhart monologue.)
You might enjoy his Universal Language, too. (Also completely unrelated to the project at hand, though.)
 
Wait, no, the biannual student-directed shorts compilation did this three years ago.
I thought it was kinda creepy, but I like where you're going with the connection to GOG.
 
10:59 PM
btw @MikeQ -- you mind pinging me on Discord when you are available?
 
user15026
11:11 PM
@BESW I am intrigued.
 
hey there @KarlM, welcome to the RPG.SE lair :)
 
user15026
@nitsua60 oh man, a friend was trying to explain this play to me a while back, it makes much more sense now.
 
@Ash <ding!>
 
user15026
11:35 PM
grins
 
11:55 PM
@BESW but as for the theme/tone of Aeon Flux, all I'm coming up with is Dark City, which I haven't seen in 20 years.
 
Ooh, that's an interesting connection. I'm all about Dark City.
 

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