TRPG General Chat

Eternallord66

12:00 AM

@Medix2 Really? How about the wording itself?

Medix2

So then you're asking whether you cast counterspell after your first spell is already gone? Why would you do that?

Eternallord66

It's simple to understand the differences.

@Medix2 How could you possibly get that?

Someone_Evil

@Eternallord66 That statemet is clearly not true, as others aren't seeing it. Please be a spot more understanding of that and it will make other more willing to work with you

Medix2

It's how I interpret the question of "would I wait to see the outcome of the counterspell"

The "outcome of counterspell" is your spell ending, well, at least to me

Eternallord66

I am simply asking as a player, not a character, do I say I am going to counterspell the DM's counterspell before he attempts his roll or not.

The last sentence of the question makes that abundantly clear.

Medix2

12:05 AM

If you attempted it after the roll then wouldn't your spell already be over? (I'll go look back over divination wizard rn)

Eternallord66

My question has nothing to do with that other question except it is talking about the same spell.

Medix2

So you're asking whether the second casting happens after the /roll/ of the other casting, though it clearly happens before the spell takes all of its effects?

Is this especially different from knowing the attack roll when counterspelling an attacking spell? (Just making sure I understand)

Eternallord66

@Medix2 Yes

Medix2

I do believe this could be made more explicit. Perhaps actually mentioning the ability check and quoting a feature such as Cutting Words or Portent as an example of what you're asking

Eternallord66

@Medix2 It is not about what I know in game. It is about meta knowledge and when to do the spell.

@Medix2 I did mention Portent but I didn't have the name.

Medix2

12:12 AM

Just know it's a given that some GMs use open rolls and others use hidden rolls (though an answer would also state this)

@Eternallord66 yes I'd just recommend quoting the relevant wording

"You must choose to do so before the roll,"

Eternallord66

@Medix2 I do not have access to the book right now to do that.

Is it clear yet that it is not a duplicate?

Medix2

PHB page 116: "You can replace any attack roll, saving throw, or ability check made by you or a creature that you can see with one of these foretelling rolls. You must choose to do so before the roll [...]"

Eternallord66

Also, I said outcome because the DM can always upcast the counterspell so there wouldn't be a roll

Medix2

Yes, but I do think it's unclear currently

Yeah I think explaining the two possible scenarios (needing a check and not needing one) would also jelp

Eternallord66

It is clearly not a duplicate but i'm at a loss on how to improve the question to make it any clearer. Feel free to edit if you wish.

Hot RPG Questions

12:21 AM

3

Q: Can spent hit die give a character hit points beyond their maximum?

In D&D 5e can hit die spent during a short rest increase a character's hit points beyond their maximum number of hit points, thus giving then temporary hit points? Example: Jed the 2nd level Fighter was wounded, and is at 11 HP. His HP Max is 12 + 8 = 20. (Constitution of 14). The party takes...

Medix2

I made an edit, does it seem accurate?

Eternallord66

@Medix2 That edit works

I would suggest next time instead of jumping to the duplicate conclusion when it is unclear, maybe put it on hold for clarification? That would make the whole process so much simpler. It is very frustrating when a question is wrongfully marked as duplicate.

Black Spike

Anyone else been having problems accessing rpg.net recently?

Mark Wells

@Eternallord66 Please explain how it's not a duplicate.

Medix2

I felt it was a duplicate given how I interpreted it. If you're quite upset I apologize for any undue stress, but at the very least it was unclear and closure from that is not (at least to me) particularly different

@MarkWells They did earlier in here. It's because they're specifically asking about the timing of counterspell with respect to the ability check of another counterspell

Unfortunately, I do have to go now, but best of luck with the question

Eternallord66

12:34 AM

@MarkWells Just read back as it was hashed out.

Rubiksmoose

@Eternallord66 I can understand how it would be frustrating, but we've actually found that it is best for everyone if potential duplicates are closed ASAP and then worked out as opposed to the other way around.

In the end, the close reason isn't super important mechanically but generally it will only get closed as a dupe if the person closing is sure that it is one.

(BTW I did miss the part at first where you said to close as unclear instead of dupe, my apologies)

Mark Wells

@Medix2 (and no, they're not)

Medix2

I would really like a citation for that one @MarkWells

Eternallord66

12:49 AM

@MarkWells What?

@Rubiksmoose As the poster it just seems better to have a question closed as unclear rather than a dupe IMHO

Mark Wells

@Medix2 If you've applied the optional rule from Xanathar's in your game, or seen someone else do it, and can talk about how it works in practice, great.

I for one am skeptical of anything printed in the same book as the Hexblade. It's like a diet book that has one chapter recommending you eat asbestos.

Rubiksmoose

@MarkWells I don't think I've ever heard vehement objections to the Hexblade before (not that that means anything though). What bothers you about it?

Medix2

I've seen it being called OP for a 1 level dip in a multiclass. But the classes were never balanced around multiclassing

Okay well now I actually have to go. Happy stacking

Rubiksmoose

o/

@Yuuki That's a darned hard anime to find lol

Yuuki

@Rubiksmoose Yeah, unfortunately.

Rubiksmoose

1:04 AM

Crunchyroll lied to me. It has the show name but no videos

And a bunch of S1 and S2 OVAs to find too I guess once I find the main eps.

Mark Wells

1:25 AM

@Rubiksmoose The short version since I don't want to rant up the place. First, the hexblade inverts the concept of the warlock. It makes no sense for your sword to be your patron. The point of a patron is that it wields you, not the other way around.

Rubiksmoose

@MarkWells But the sword isn't your patron right?

It's the Hexblade which is different from your weapon.

Though admittedly it is a bit confusing.

Mark Wells

@Rubiksmoose Less charitably I don't think you really have a patron as a Hexblade. The point is to be able to handwave the patron out of existence as easily as possible.

Rubiksmoose

@MarkWells Huh, that seems to be a DM choice though right? I had a Hexblade PC in a campaign and the DM played up the patron and the mysteriousness behind it.

Or are you saying that its maybe more difficult for the DM because of the flavor of the patron?

Pasting this here so I can refer back to it:

> You have made your pact with a mysterious entity from the Shadowfell — a force that manifests in sentient magic weapons carved from the stuff of shadow. The mighty sword Blackrazor is the most notable of these weapons, which have been spread across the multiverse over the ages. The shadowy force behind these weapons can offer power to warlocks who form pacts with it. Many hexblade warlocks create weapons that emulate those formed in the Shadowfell. Others forgo such arms, content to weave the dark magic of that plane into their spellcasting.

Mark Wells

@Rubiksmoose That's to your credit (and your DM's). You can make a mighty fine pot of stone soup, but I'm still going to be suspicious of whoever sold you the stone.

Rubiksmoose

@MarkWells Is it really different from other patrons though? Almost none of the patrons are fleshed out right? I'm honestly curious how this one is any different.

It could just be that I'm not familiar with Warlocks as much and I'm missing something here.

Mark Wells

1:33 AM

Other patrons aren't fleshed out but they at least invite fleshing out. I can see a direction for fleshing out, say, a Fiend or Great Old One.

The core of the warlock-patron relationship is that it's adversarial (that's why they're not a cleric). How are you adversarial to your sword?

Rubiksmoose

@MarkWells But that's the thing right, your sword isn't your patron. It isn't even made by your patron IIRC.

Your patron is a being that likes making sentient weapons in the Shadowfell.

And I don't think the Hexblade patron even gives you a weapon at all...

(what a jerk)

Mark Wells

So, taking that blurb as literally as possible, the only thing we know about the patron is that they make sentient weapons, which you don't even have.

(oh and they're in the Spookyfell)

Rubiksmoose

Right, that's pretty much all you get.

Flavor-wise

Black Spike

@MarkWells Maybe it is akin to the 2 Unnamed Primarchs in WH40k. Specifically having very little info, so there is room for players to put their own home-brew in

Mark Wells

@Rubiksmoose The vaguest possible patron plus a ton of firepower, which gets to my second issue with it.

The Hexblade is specifically built to be an effective melee fighter without sacrificing any spellcasting ability whatsoever. Like, why does anyone not make a deal with the Mysterious Lord of the Shadowdark?

And in fact they mostly do. That's why we have a "hexblade" tag.

(note the lack of comparable tags for, say, "fiend")

I'm starting to rant, though, so I'll leave it at that.

Rubiksmoose

1:58 AM

@MarkWells Makes sense. Thanks for clarifying :)

Mark Wells

@Rubiksmoose No problem.

Hot RPG Questions

2:25 AM

4

Q: In AL, who can a character with the Ritual Caster feat learn additional ritual spells from?

Simple enough question (I hope), but I couldn't seem to find a clear answer anywhere. This is for an Adventurers League character. I've taken the Ritual Caster feat and chosen my two initial spells. Can I then only learn additional ritual spells from other players? Or can I spend downtime to le...

dnd-5e spells feats dnd-adventurers-league rituals

V2Blast

4:09 AM

@MarkWells Yes, the Hexblade patron description is overly vague/bland in Xanathar's... But that has nothing to do with the "not playtested" issue you brought up to begin with. Also, the hexblade tag existed before 5e was even a thing, to my knowledge; it's a concept from previous editions (though I'm not very familiar with 3.5e and 4e, where it appeared), so the tag doesn't exist just because 5e frontloaded its useful features (making it a common multiclass).

There are definitely valid complaints about 5e's implementation of it, but I'm not sure any of that has to do with the tag's existence :P

(Though that last bit about 5e frontloading its features does actually support an argument that it wasn't playtested (enough).)

Shalvenay

4:36 AM

@V2Blast confirming Hexblade was a class in 3.x

Ben

4:47 AM

@V2Blast Meats and seasonings!

Hot RPG Questions

5:12 AM

4

Q: What magic item benefits are built into the expectation of the game?

I often read that magic item progression is built into the game's difficulty, and that it's important for PCs to keep up with the progression in order to not fall behind. Exactly what progression is "built in" and "necessary" for a PC? For example, I usually buy an anklet of translocation for...

dnd-3.5e magic-items game-design

BESW

5:51 AM

@HotRPGQuestions Oh look, another thing 4e did well.

trogdor

6:44 AM

XD

Ben

7:04 AM

So I thought of some PCs for my Christmas adventure

An Elf Artificer (one of the elves from Santa's Workshop)
A Druid Named Rudie (Favoured from is a reindeer)
A Gnome Rogue (one of the delivery agents on Christmas eve)
And our favourite Orc - Grug Grug

Hot RPG Questions

7

Q: When I cast Counterspell as a reaction to an enemy's Counterspell, do I do so before or after the enemy makes their spellcasting ability check?

If I cast disintegrate and the enemy casts counterspell, would I wait to see the outcome of the enemy's counterspell before I cast counterspell? Or would I have to just cast it without knowing (like when a Divination wizard uses their divination die with their Portent feature to replace a roll be...

dnd-5e spells counterspelling

Ben

7:20 AM

Oh, and the Caroling Bard, of course

Pierre Cathé

8:33 AM

@Ben Froooostyyy the golemmmm !

NautArch

2:38 PM

@KorvinStarmast Well, there are methods presented (as shown in David Coffron's answer) how they all got their stuff back. So they all do have a mostly level playing field (except for unarmed strikes or picking up weapons along the way), but those wards preventing spellcasting at all pretty much take most things away from the casters until they are out of the pen.

Eternallord66

2:54 PM

@MarkWells Late to the party but if you ever read the Drenai saga by David Gemmell I would associate the Hexblade like Druss and his axe or Skilgannon with the swords of night and day (or the swords of blood and fire). those weapons are possessed and slowly take over the mind of the wielder unless they can expunge the demons inhabiting them.

The Hexblade has a lot of flavor as long as you know what you are doing and you have good inspiration.

NautArch

@Eternallord66 I'm pretty sure that counterspell answer is saying how it resolves. It's just not written particularly well and could use a title to tie it all together.

The last sentence is clear in that you counterspell before the initial counterspell resolves. Because once resolved, there's nothing to counterspell.

But I submitted my own answer anyway to try and make it abundantly clear :)

@Medix2 went ahead and updated my Q&A on Xanathar's.

Hot RPG Questions

3:30 PM

6

Q: How do daemons/yugoloths propagate (make more of themselves)?

So from what I understand, the Lawful Evil Devils primarily perpetuate their race by making deals with mortals in exchange for their souls. A mortal who accepts this deal will rise as a lemure in the Nine Hells upon their death (or sometimes a more powerful kind of devil, depending on the deal). ...

dnd-5e lore forgotten-realms

NautArch

@HotRPGQuestions Son, let me tell you about the Night Hags and Asmodeus...

kviiri

haha :D

NautArch

@kviiri No D involved...

kviiri

I didn't actually know how the yugoloth thing goes

NautArch

@kviiri Same! Was a pretty interesting answer.

kviiri

3:38 PM

Demons and devils feel somewhat natural to me, to cover for the two different pop-culture and mythological "branches" of demonics

NautArch

@kviiri I never really understood the difference until I read Mordenkainen's.

kviiri

Yugoloths otoh feel a bit like they just needed to complete the alignment grid which is usually a turn-off for me

NautArch

@kviiri I ran a short 3 session arc involving yugoloth's and really enjoyed the monsters.

G. Moylan

hello peeples

NautArch

@G.Moylan hello other person!

G. Moylan

3:47 PM

@NautArch how do?

kviiri

Yo yo

NautArch

@G.Moylan Stressed, but life is life.

G. Moylan

@NautArch c'est la vie

NautArch

@G.Moylan c'est vrait

G. Moylan

lol

kviiri

3:51 PM

Stress is all too familiar here too. Feels like it's always me or my SO who's buckling under too much worries at a time :<

luckily, seldom both of us at the same time

G. Moylan

so I answered a question and I'm not 100% sure how I feel about it. It's not quite GS/BS, but it relies on interpretation of designer intent, so I'm not sure what to do

NautArch

We're getting hit from all sides right now.

at least the kids are healthy and happy

@G.Moylan I was about to comment on it :)

I think it'd be better to leave out your assumptions on designer intent and just talk about how you ruled it at your table and why.

It's a weird interaction, tho.

It seems that RAW it should affect it. But that doesn't make a lot of sense.

G. Moylan

yeah I genuinely think it shouldn't be affected like that, buuuuuuuut

technically it "should" be

NautArch

yeah, i think framing your answer with the 'raw' vs what makes sense and what you did would be upvote worthy.

G. Moylan

ok, revision incoming...

Someone_Evil

3:55 PM

Can anyone see how antimagic field doesn't (raw) just disable itself?

kviiri

@NautArch That's good at least. I hope they inject some cheer into your life through the roughest patches

NautArch

@kviiri Definitely are. My son had a sleepover last night, so gave my daughter a 'special' night sleeping in the guest room in the basement that has a TV in it. Watched Captain Marvel and she loved it. Made me happy :)

Medix2

@Someone_Evil I believe the spell explicitly states that it doesn't destroy another instance of the spell

kviiri

@Someone_Evil Hmm, the spell specifically says "The area of another spell or magical effect, such as fireball, can't extend into the sphere." I guess the "another" there is the key?

G. Moylan

@Someone_Evil twiddles fingers M A G I C

Someone_Evil

3:58 PM

@Medix2 It has a clause for other instances of AMF, but not itself

NautArch

sparkles

Medix2

"Likewise, the spheres created by different antimagic field spells don't nullify each other."

Oh, its own one. Well... Hmm... It's not overlapping itself at the very least

Carcer

to be honest, the idea of overlapping AMFs cancelling each other out is more interesting

Medix2

Additionally, I'm pretty sure it only effects magic things, which it explicitly is not: "A 10-foot-radius invisible sphere of antimagic surrounds you. This area is divorced from the magical energy that suffuses the multiverse."

Carcer

AMF venn diagrams

but can monks still flurry of blows in an AMF

Medix2

4:00 PM

There's a question on the magic of ki, and I believe the answer is yes, they can

20

Q: Does ki count as magic for the purpose of an antimagic field, or is it only fluff?

I was verifying whether my fighter's Sun Blade would in fact be a useless hilt in an antimagic field (AMF) and came across this question on a few other sites, and it piqued my interest. My first instinct is that "no, monks can still use ki effects in an AMF because they're just awesomely in cont...

dnd-5e magic monk antimagic-field

Carcer

I know that the answer is that they're meant to be able to, yes

well aware that designer intent is that the magic of ki is meant to be lower-class m magic and not Magic

Medix2

The whole list of how to tell if something is magical is... Weird

G. Moylan

OK, so new quandary. I haven't run this encounter yet, but I've definitely planned how I intend to run this encounter when we reach it. Is specific table evidence necessary here, or does my planning count?

Carcer

but I will never not rag on them for writing that, writing rules that say the way they wrote it means it's Magical, and then refusing to acknowledge they wrote it that way

Medix2

Specific table evidence?

kviiri

4:03 PM

@NautArch That's sweet <3

G. Moylan

Table experience. Having done this before and having an example of how it went

this is over a rules interpretation

NautArch

@G.Moylan Hmm, I think it's probably okay to talk about how you will do it, but then maybe provide an edit after you've done it? Definitely preferable to review actual experience over planned.

Medix2

Oh oh, I see. There's definitely something to be said for actually having run the encounter, but that's not to throw out a planned (unimplemented) version

NautArch

Yeah, you've still got relevant experience that comes into play on your planning.

Someone_Evil

Does the wording "around itself" not exclude the engine from the area of effect, thus it is not exposed to the field?

G. Moylan

4:07 PM

@Someone_Evil AMF is a sphere, not a doughnut, though

@NautArch @Medix2 ok thank you both. I've updated my answer

Someone_Evil

@G.Moylan Beholders project it like a cone.

NautArch

@Someone_Evil Yeah, i think that's where the interpretation comes into play. I think that language means there is a ring of antimagic around it. It is a doughnut. Not that there is an AMF centered on it.

G. Moylan

@Someone_Evil they do, but they're also the brand-child of D&D and somewhat of a special case

Someone_Evil

Fields can be any form, it just the rules are packed into the spell which makes things somewhat clearer

G. Moylan

@Someone_Evil fair

Someone_Evil

4:11 PM

Dead Magic Zones also use the spell for description of the actual effect and they are presumably not 10ft spheres centered on a creature

Medix2

I think the problem with using "around itself" is there's no radius then...

Well, unless it's a form-fitting perimeter of anti-magic

G. Moylan

@Medix2 "magic fails within one millimeter of this object"

very "shields up"

NautArch

^^

Someone_Evil

@Medix2 I guess it's only modifies whether the origin is part of the effect, although the base spell might have that exception already...

Medix2

Oh no we've opened the worm can of whether a point or origin is a point, square, space, object, etc... (I mean, not really but I found it funny)

Someone_Evil

4:18 PM

It's just a sphere centered on you. So you are a creature inside the field, and AMF is an active spell on you. So AMF should paradoxically suppress itself as: "Any active spell or other magical effect on a creature or an object in the sphere is suppressed while the creature or object is in it."

Medix2

IIRC spheres always include their point of origin in their effect

Whether or not AMF is "active on the caster" is probably up for debate

Someone_Evil

It range is Self, and it follows you around as you concentrate on it

Medix2

I think the question is whether an AOE whose point or origin intersects an AMF has the entire AOE stop or just the part that intersects the AMF

Hmmm... Okay so maybe it does destroy itself, and... Thus resume working and destroy itself etc...

Mark Wells

4:38 PM

@Someone_Evil Because if it didn't make an exception for itself, there would be no reason to cast it. We have to assume spells are intended to do something.

Eternallord66

@NautArch See my comment on your answer

Mark Wells

Whether it suppresses itself or not, there's still a contradiction, so we favor the interpretation where it makes an exception for itself over the one where it does literally nothing.

NautArch

@Eternallord66 Clarified it. Does that make sense now for you?

Eternallord66

@NautArch Not really. My question is about when i cast counterspell for the counterspell. Not when i cast counterspell for disintegrate.

NautArch

@Eternallord66 okay, i'll try again.

i thought i was being clear, but i guess not.

@Eternallord66 How's that now?

Please also read the outlined steps for order of events.

Eternallord66

4:55 PM

@NautArch That's exactly what I was looking for

NautArch

@Eternallord66 sorry for the confusion, glad we could work together to get clear language!

Eternallord66

@NautArch I'm glad it worked out. I just get frustrated when people don't understand what i'm asking. It's not anyone's fault on that. Sometimes I get something in my head and my mind works faster than I can type or speak.

NautArch

@Eternallord66 To be honest, I was getting a little frustrated. I thought I was being clear, too. It's possible that you are expecting something other aren't when they're writing answers. I'm not sure how to resolve that, though. The question was clear, but even though I thought my answer was, it wasn't for you. Bridging that gap isn't easy.

Heh. Someone doesn't like my Is Xanathar's Official Q&A. Just got downvotes to both Q and A.

G. Moylan

productive day at work

Eternallord66

@NautArch What Q & A?

NautArch

5:08 PM

10

Q: Are the rules in Xanathar's Guide to Everything clarifications/in addition to the Core rules or are they Optional/Variants?

The release of Xanathar's Guide to Everything includes additional rules for things under Chapter 2 Dungeon Master's Tools. Are those rules official updates/clarifications to the Core Rules or are they considered Optional/Variants that you a DM can utilize?

dnd-5e optional-rules

V2Blast

6:13 PM

@Carcer It's weird that they explicitly call it magic in the "fluff", but never in the feature description, and expect that to be clear.

Medix2

@V2Blast There is no fluff(?)

V2Blast

@Medix2 There's definitely "fluff"/flavor text, no matter how much Crawford may try to deny it... It's just not clearly distinguished/demarcated from text that describes the mechanics. :P

In this case, stuff outside the class features is being treated as "fluff" without mechanical impact

Rubiksmoose

@V2Blast doesn't JC one talk about spells not having fluff anyways?

NautArch

Add this is to why i refrain from referencing JC now.

Medix2

I mean the Sage Advice gives a direct way to determine whether or not something is magical

Rubiksmoose

6:28 PM

@NautArch yeah it was always kind of a cop out anyways. "We didn't think it was necessary to mark this as fluff or rules and it caused issues so just assume literally everything we say is rules"

Medix2

Though U suppose spells are specifically called out as not having fluff...

Rubiksmoose

Well in that tweet anyways. I mean it makes sense. Nowhere does it say to ignore certain phrases and it would be impossible to agree 100% on which phrases should be ignored, so it makes sense to just assume everything is rules.

V2Blast

@Medix2 One thing that makes a thing magical is if the answer to "Does its description say it’s magical?". And ki is explicitly called magical... Just not in the feature description: dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#TheMagicofKi

The feature itself just calls it "mystic energy": dndbeyond.com/classes/monk#Ki-228

Medix2

Ah yeah, that's definitely some sort of cop out, or ignoring their own rule, or something

Rubiksmoose

Seriously though, how hard would it have been to explicitly and clearly mark abilities as magical or not?

NautArch

6:32 PM

There's also the larger issue if Ki is Chi, then an AMF should kill living things.

KorvinStarmast

Happy New Year everyone, in advance. :)

NautArch

"We'll just turn this off"

Rubiksmoose

That would be quite the power bump lol

Medix2

I know there was some sort of question on Bards using swords and stuff as instruments because the fluff/descriptions at the start of the class seem to point towards it

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast you too, Korvin!

Rubiksmoose

6:33 PM

@KorvinStarmast same!

Medix2

@Rubiksmoose Bring back the tags!

Rubiksmoose

I'd be in favor, at least for this

KorvinStarmast

@Medix2 tags? Like the Happy New Year Tag?

NautArch

that problem player question is a tough one.

Medix2

Yeah the fluff/crunch distinction (or maybe lack of one?) has made more problems with the RAW-style interpretations than any sort of clear demarcation would have

This one?

NautArch

6:36 PM

@Medix2 yeah

I mean, it seems like that description would provide that answer for a seasoned adventurer.

It feels like there are multiple issues between player/DM, but none are really clear.

Medix2

But apparently they've also lied about their rolls and gone directly against their character sheet (whatever that means)

Actually, Rykara's comment at the end of the current answer there is spot-on

NautArch

@Medix2 I missed the comment about lying on rolls. Added that to the question.

But at this point, there are several problems. Metagaming (which is a duplicate of the metagaming question.) And then the lying. And I"m pretty sure thre's gotta be a question on that...

maybe this question

So we've got a question that is currently focused on metagaming issues and dice roll fudging. There's still the core question that hasn't been clarified with an examle. But at this point, it seems like a duplicate of those questions.

Medix2

But they've also said there's plenty of other things that would take years to write out

NautArch

Yeah, that's not so helpful :)

Medix2

Which... I begin to question how this only came up now, and what's already been done about it

NautArch

6:45 PM

we can only answer what the question asks

@Medix2 that would be a good comment for clarification.

but i'm unconvinced it's not a duplicate of those questions.

how to handle metagaming and manipulating dice rolls

V2Blast

As written, this question seems a bit too opinion-based (it's basically surveying people for their experiences):

2

Q: Expanding crafting and adding recipes

A note for the start, I am a new DM with not so much experience. My party is far from a bigger city and running low on healing potions. One of my players has proficiency with the herbalism kit and asked me if he could collect the ingredients and brew a healing potion. I like the idea behind it....

dnd-5e crafting

Medix2

Oh I've just realized the Essentials Kit further explains what overlapping effects do

V2Blast

If anyone has any suggestions to the querent on how they should ask it to focus on the underlying question, they would be appreciated

Medix2

@V2Blast Yeah that's what I felt as well, but couldn't think of a way to focus it...

"only one of them applies while the durations of the effects overlap (a duration is a time span of 1 round or more)"

NautArch

@V2Blast I'm not sure how NOT to turn this away from idea generation or shopping.

V2Blast

6:53 PM

We might just need OP to tell us what their underlying issue is before we can help fix the question

@Medix2 Under "EFFECTS WITH THE SAME NAME DON'T STACK" on p. 3?

NautArch

It's built into the question. I guess asking if there are any official modules or rules regarding crafting that can be used, but they've already seen and mentioned them.

I think they want crafting to be a bigger thing in 5e.

Medix2

@V2Blast Yeah it changes exactly how the process works so instantaneous things (such as a reduction to an attack roll) could stack

I may open a question on whether this actually does anything

V2Blast

interesting

> But when two or more effects have the same proper name, only one of them applies while the durations of the effects overlap (a duration is a time span of 1 round or more).

Medix2

Yeah it specifically applies to things like this where I apparently already argued this point

NautArch

@V2Blast I voted to close for now. I agree with you that it's not focused enough.

Rubiksmoose

7:00 PM

@Medix2 Oooo!

Medix2

I've been going through the Essentials Kit looking for differences, which... are not particularly easy to find, but it was cool. Actually... would a question asking for the changes between the PHB and the EK be stackable?

Somewhat, like this question: As of the November 2018 core book updates, what changes were made in the latest printings of the PHB that aren't noted in the errata document?

V2Blast

8:06 PM

@Medix2 Eh... It feels both too broad ("look at all the rules in the EK for me") and too narrowly useful at the same time.

Also, I don't think they're really "changes" between the PHB and the EK so much as they are (mostly accidental) differences resulting from an attempt to quickly summarize the rules. That part is just an attempt to condense the PHB+DMG rules into one, but it seems to have introduced an error/difference in wording.

(The use of the word "changes", alongside the comparison to my question there, makes me think of errata or updates rather than just differences between the presentation of the rules in the two products, but maybe that's just me reading too much into your wording there.)

Same with the "Use a Magic Item" action - it's not in the PHB, but it is derived from a clarification already made in the DMG.

Medix2

9:11 PM

@V2Blast Yeah I think I'll delete it for now and go through it to add as many found differences as I can after going through carefully. Yeah I'm now unsure how helpful it is, though I do think the description of what a duration is is helpful...

Yeah I probably shouldn't have opened it so prematurely, I think I'll just make a list for my own use and possibly open a question about whether the differences are now "official" rules

Also apparently I start a lot of sentences with "yeah" XD

V2Blast

lol

@Medix2 I do think a question about whether the differences are now "official" rules would be valuable/useful, at least assuming there are a significant number of differences

Though I'm not sure there's a clear answer

nitsua60

9:45 PM

@KorvinStarmast Happy New Year. Package arrived safe-and-sound, thank you very much!

(Arrived a while ago--I've been afk much of the last week.)

BESW

10:01 PM

I've decided that in my TTRPG materials, the word for the people at the table playing the game isn't "players," it's "friends."

3

user15026

I like that, it implies a sort of expectation of how people are going to interact with the thing.

BESW

For example,

> We’re telling stories about people facing great challenges, but the friends at our tables don’t need to suffer for the sake of the story.

KorvinStarmast

10:22 PM

@BESW yeah, that's a great way to approach a TTRPG, and hopefully one can get buy in at Cons where it isn't always people who know one another ... but at least toss it out there and see if it sets the tone.

Black Spike

@BESW I like the idea. But it is a slightly different usage of the word than usual (for me, at least). Similar to "Facebook Friends", "RPG Friends" may not be people I would generally regard as "a person who I know well and who I like a lot" (Cambridge Dictionary).

BESW

Not everyone plays with people they know well and like a lot. Convention games, online pickup games, FLGS events...

But I think it's important to have at least a basic "I value this person beyond their utility in allowing me to play this game" assumption.

vicky_molokh

@BlackSpike Yeah, this is one that always rubbed me wrong about how social networks allow having a half-dozen or more 'friends'. Those aren't friends. It's pretty hard to have more than two, maaaybe three friends at a time, and over the course of the lifetime maybe 1-2 of them will prove real friends in dire circumstances. The rest are acquaintances, of which there are hundreds at a time and sometimes thousands throughout a lifetime. But it seems the FB usage is creeping into non-FB contexts too.

Black Spike

@BESW Agreed. By calling other people at the table 'friends', it brings a whole set of assumptions with it, most of which I'd like to be true about the people I choose to spend such important (for me) time with.

BESW

Yeah, I'm being... deliberately provocative? in a very gentle way? by using that word.

Like, if somebody reading my material thinks "friend" is a weird word to use for the people they play games with, I hope that gets them thinking about who they're playing games with and why.

Black Spike

10:31 PM

I'd disagree on your numbers (or maybe your definitions). There are friends, best-friends, close-friends, BFFs ...
Over the past years, my general social circle has lessened, but I would have classed at least 20 of the people I knew and regularly was in contact with as 'friends'.

"someone who is not an enemy and who you can trust" (Cambridge Dict. again). Levels of trust vary.

<side-tracks in Dunbar Number. Not sure if there is a more recent study>

@BESW Indeed. If (as now), someone refers to my RPG-table-folk as "friends", and my 1st reaction is "They're not my 'friends' ...", then why do I spend so much time with them?

trogdor

Ah finally, the word "friend" is discussed

XD

I shall derive valuable insight from this

The concept is sometimes confusing to me in a way

Specifically because I try to treat people well regardless if wether or not I currently know them or consider them a friend

But I also often am forced by circumstance to spend time with people regardless of just how much I like them or not

And sometimes I lable someone "friend" or not contrary to what or when they decided to lable me the same or the opposite

The people I purposely spend time with though, that's usually a given

vicky_molokh

10:51 PM

That's actually something of a usual answer to 'why do you spend so much time together', though I would go a step further and tone down 'forced by circumstances' to something more like 'the things we both like to do lead to us spending time together, regardless of our mutual attitudes'.
E.g. I go to the local go/baduk/weiqi club, I get to play against the local set of opponents, again and again, regardless of friendliness or enmity.

trogdor

Yes

That actually perfectly highlights my confusion

I find a lot of people use the lable of "friend" differently than I do

vicky_molokh

It's been more than once that I highly disliked a co-player, but I essentially had two choices: keep playing together because the campaign is worth it, or leave the campaign because it's not. And there were times when I stayed, and there were times I left.

trogdor

If I enjoy an activity with people it certainly starts as just doing the activity

But after doing it as routine for long enough with the same people it can't not be more than that

V2Blast

Today's free game on the Epic Games Store is Yooka-Laylee and the Impossible Lair: epicgames.com/store/en-US/product/…

@BESW I like it :)

trogdor

@vicky_molokh that's fair enough yes

vicky_molokh

10:55 PM

(Of course sometimes there are third options, but they still tend to flow into one of the two main choices.)

trogdor

I tend to Break things off with anyone I feel that way about

If I really dislike a person very scary warning bells are constantly on in my head until I extricate myself from thier presence

Black Spike

@vicky_molokh Been there, yes. "Is engaging in this activity overall (in this case, RPGs) worth putting up with Person X?" ... sometimes yes, sometimes no. sometimes a little bit more complex, with many other factors. But "Do i like/am I friends with the other people invovled" will always be important

It's why I dislike the phrase " 'No Gaming is better than Bad Gaming' " ... as if it was a Binary Choice, with a simple and obvious Break Point. It rarely is.

trogdor

Though I have spent time I would never have spent with a person Because they were part of/joined the group I was already in

It crossed my wires a lot honestly

xD

vicky_molokh

@BlackSpike And then there's cases where I enjoy an activity with someone, but only that activity. There have been people with whom I like playing RPGs, but have no interest in discussing weather nor work nor family nor art nor politics. So the common interest doesn't turn into a friendship in such cases.

Black Spike

@vicky_molokh Very much so! (And not just RPGs). Some folk, I really get on with for a certain activity ... but do NOT want to spend any other time with them!

trogdor

11:00 PM

@BlackSpike I mostly try to avoid getting embroiled at all with such people

vicky_molokh

@BlackSpike I think I just dislike mantraic-dogmatic phrases. They're sometimes useful for conveying an idea concisely or (especially) reminding of it, but shouldn't be taken to be omniapplicable.

Black Spike

But I suppose they would still be @BESW's "RPG Friends", as I would gladly RPG with them.

trogdor

@BlackSpike yeah, I think the other half of the reason for that is to remind people to treat each other well at the table

I assume at least

Black Spike

@trogdor Indeed so. "While we are sat at the table, we are Friends. Treat each other as such"

trogdor

Yeah

I mean

I wouldn't personally condone playing with people you don't like too much to begin with but

vicky_molokh

11:04 PM

@BlackSpike And then there are what I call 'punchclock players'. They come on time, they have sheets in order, they role-play interestingly, they are fun to play with, and then they drop off the radar for 6 days in-between sessions, each and every time. Trying to treat them as friends (close acquaintances) would be very much effort for questionable benefit.

trogdor

It's not my business who you play with

Unless I'm on the list at the same time XD

Black Spike

@trogdor I have a regular Group, and we are all friends. But i accept that some people find it hard to find a Group, and may have to accept a Table with people they may otherwise not choose to. I've been there. "Some Gaming is better than No Gaming"

vicky_molokh

(Addendum/clarification: I don't stop thinking about a campaign for the 6 days in-between sessions, and find it straining to pack all things that are worth resolving, examining and discussing about a session into the 3-4 hours of the session itself.)

trogdor

Unless it's a harmful environment

I would rather have no games than be hurt or abused in some way

Black Spike

@trogdor Agreed, and my statement is a gross generalisation, rather than a dogmatic pronouncement.

trogdor

11:08 PM

And I love games

@BlackSpike I didn't think you were trying to say anything about harmful group practice

Tis why I brought it up

nitsua60

so: some > no > bad. Sounds right to me =)

trogdor

Lol

Black Spike

It can be a complex area. I think all discussions of "friendship" will be, but RPGs are, by definition, a Social hobby, the point is to hang out, interact, 'role-play' with others. So you have all the Social Complexity of Model Train clubs, along with not being able to 'just build train sets alone, and show them off on club night', you have to actually RP with these people!

trogdor

Yes

And I want to point out that I have nothing against playing with people you don't technically consider a friend outside the game

BESW

I'm increasingly fond of the "bringing RPGs to people" model over the "bringing people to RPGs" model.

trogdor

11:14 PM

I just personally prefer to play with people I either consider a friend or want to eventually consider a friend

Black Spike

@trogdor and versa vice. I have some good friends, that I do NOT want to RPG with again! We have very different styles, want different things from the game!

trogdor

I've made only one complicated possible exception to that

I still to this day have not fully untangled that one

@BlackSpike this is also fair

vicky_molokh

@BlackSpike Been there, played that!

Black Spike

@BESW I kinda see what you mean, a shift in emphasis? but not sure of the implementation

Oh, here we go! Fireworks a-go-go!

40 minutes to 2020,

BESW

It implies a shift in praxis that I'm still sorting through.

trogdor

11:19 PM

@BlackSpike oh right, I live in the future

XD

vicky_molokh

And am actually thinking that RPGing with friends is in some ways riskier/scarier than RPGing with acquaintances. Because in case of any tension and the like, it becomes a matter of conflicts of interest and testing loyalties, and those are not things I would want to risk having to deal with. (But in practice I have and do have to deal with them already, even on a 'one friend and two close acquaintances' level.)

Black Spike

@trogdor heh. Been getting messages from my future-friends all evening! :D

trogdor

Lol

BESW

It's sort of the difference between translating a film into another language, vs making a film in that language. If I bring RPGs to people, it's the RPGs that are moving and changing according to the needs of the people. If I bring people to RPGs, it's the people who are changing to fit the RPGs.

Black Spike

@vicky_molokh Definitely! As with any shared activity (but moreso with RPGs), with close friends, it can show/highlight differences, and force them to centre-stage

BESW

11:23 PM

Finding people to play D&D with is very different from finding an RPG my friends will like to play.

Black Spike

@BESW That's an interesting way to look at it

BESW

And that principle has far-flung implications that I'm only just starting to process, in large part because I recently joined an RPGSEA design/development server on Discord and their approaches to the entire hobby are blowing my mind in all the best ways.

Black Spike

@BESW "Which choice do you make 1st?" ? Choose (an) RPG, then look for 'friends' to play, or choose (already have) friends, and look for a (RP)G to play ...

RPGSEA?

BESW

SEA = South-East Asia

Black Spike

aha

BESW

11:26 PM

And they aren't very interested in just importing American and European RPGs. They're interested in what shape the hobby can take under the influence of their culture and experience.

Black Spike

Got 2 friends in that (broad, I'm not sure where) area. 1 used to RP, the other never has. Both are UK-natives (ex-pats)

BESW

Ah, yeah. Not a lot of expats on this server.

30 minutes left on the Supernatural Strangeness bundle! Speak the Sky's found-footage weird horror game "The Cromlech Archives" and their supernatural submarine tragedy game "SONAR GHOSTS" are going for a combined $4 (or $2.25 individually), and both will be updated early in the new year!

Black Spike

@vicky_molokh My current group almost fits this profile! :D they are all good friends, known them for years (which is why they are welcome at my home every week for games!) ... but trying to talk Gaming between sessions is like getting blood from a stone!

BESW

The RPGSEA server is a big part of why I'm actually doing jams now. Gonna upload a submission to the Community Jam in a few hours, and then I've got an idea for the Pleasant Dreams Jam.

Black Spike

@BESW Coo. I can never get my stuff together to actually produce anything ... and most of my ideas are very ... uninspired

BESW

11:38 PM

I struggle to make my projects fit my available resources.

For the Community Jam, a few days ago I abandoned any attempt to mechanize the concept and just started writing a game guide with principles of play and the patterns sessions would follow, to be used with the system of choice for each group.

Black Spike

@BESW Interesting

Well, Happy New Year to all! I must go send my confibralations to my friends (of all varieties). Enjoy! Be Good! Etc!

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