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12:11 AM
Hey folks, how goes?
 
alright here @RyanfaeScotland, as for you?
 
Can't complain, horrible week at work but was soon forgotten by having a chance to roll the dice round a table on Friday
 
@RyanfaeScotland XD
 
Away to try and figure out roll20, see if it is a viable option to get a few more campaign sessions in when real life prevents travelling to the host's house.
 
@RyanfaeScotland if you think a game in r20 would help with that, just ask -- I'm not the savviest person with r20 on the planet, but I have used it for a little while, and would be more than happy to run a short-form game for you using it
 
12:19 AM
Roll20 is good, although its built-in voice chat is not. I'd recommend supplementing with discord or google hangouts
 
It's been my experience that Roll20 is only really worthwhile for the handful of systems that it FULLY supports; the effort/reward ratios for anything that isn't already fully automated by existing options are just not worthwhile.
 
yeah -- roll20 is only worth it for the systems it supports fully, and only really shines if you are using its map-and-tokens functionality well
 
It would've been nice to be able to use Roll20 for Cthulhu Confidential; there's real potential there.
 
@BESW I believe it's possible to contribute automation for new systems, but I'm not sure how
 
What about Table Top Simulator? I saw someone playing that on Twitch a few months back but have never heard mention of it for DnD?
And cheers for the thoughts and offers.
 
12:28 AM
I've heard of people using TTS for D&D. I don't have any specific knowledge of the engine but it sounds like serious overkill.
I'd recommend just dropping the grid-and-minis play; TotM style RPGs are pretty easy to do online without specialized interfaces.
We can play almost any of my group's preferred RPGs with just a voice/video chat and some shared Google documents.
...six years before Roll20 launched, I did grids-and-minis play with moderate success just by pointing the webcam at the map.
At about the same time I also tried OpenRPG, which was... okay. It's probably a lot better now?
 
Hmmm I never put too much thought into it but your right, TTS would be overkill when you think about how much actual TT is needed in a typical session
 
yeah -- if you're more of a Theater of the Mind player, that's much easier to do online without specialized tools. (I've done ToTM play in Stack chat even -- all you really need is a chat facility with a dicebot)
 
@MikeQ I loooove locate object.
 
 
2 hours later…
2:44 AM
@MikeQ I really think we should do a recon before we leave so that we have more to report. I am more or less invisible in the dark if whomever tries to detect me needs infravision. Let's discuss in Back Room, or via email ... we can also decide, if Trog can make it next time, to just head west to that port.
@RyanfaeScotland I am a little bit competent with Roll20 as a GM, but I am still learning how to get the most out of dynamic lighting. What I am not good at is the API scripts and such, and sometimes my macros stink because I missed a character ...
 
 
2 hours later…
4:37 AM
hey there @Joshua
 
@Shalvenay: I had the worst idea. Try to survive two space liches battling each other.
 
@Joshua that's almost as bad as us Earthlings trying to survive two Type II civilizations slugging it out
 
Yeah.
Was finally able to celebrate my birthday today. Roast beef is always good.
 
@Joshua nice :)
 
5:11 AM
@kviiri I really appreciate the input :) Thank you for your time!!!
 
5:32 AM
Anybody home?
Had an edit for the title of my Q by @V2Blast, I really liked the general editing. But the title is now confusing in so much as the avg person wandering via title is going to end up with the expectation of @Dale M, in which his answer is technically correct. Does anyone have a suggestion for a better title than either of the previous 2?
Q#139357
 
5:46 AM
It's a blast!
 
Well, the title was copied from the body of the post, where it seemed to be the question you were asking
 
Not sure if it needs a change, but I considered it based on the fact DaleM has 100k rep and isn't likely to skip reading a body unless it looks like boilerplate. So thought maybe there was an issue.
 
The title doesn't need to encompass the entire question, especially when the situation is a bit more complicated
when the title and body ask slightly different questions, answers should answer the question in the body of the post
the title has a much shorter character limit and generally people try to avoid making them too long and unwieldy
 
Righto, new here. Usually other places. I'll defer to your judgement then.
 
No worries :)
 
5:50 AM
Those were some beautiful edits btw
 
Thanks!
 
How long did that take you?
I can hear gears churning...
 
Uh... Not that long.
 
XD
 
Mostly just minor fixes, a little reorganization
 
5:51 AM
Well you are now Mr.Editor in my mind :3
 
I've seen other questions that have needed a lot more work :P
 
Especially with the use of the technical phrase "Copy Editing" XP
Alright, B-Day food coma kicking in, signing off for the night. Nice to meet you though o/
 
Haha, it's a catchall term
Copy editing (also copyediting, sometimes abbreviated ce) is the process of reviewing and correcting written material to improve accuracy, readability, and fitness for its purpose, and to ensure that it is free of error, omission, inconsistency, and repetition. In the context of publication in print, copy editing is done before typesetting and again before proofreading, the final step in the editorial cycle.In the United States and Canada, an editor who does this work is called a copy editor. An organization's highest-ranking copy editor, or the supervising editor of a group of copy editors, may...
Sounds good. Good night!
 
Yeah, but lay peep don't use it that often ^__-
 
True. I've just spent too long on here and Wikipedia :P
 
5:53 AM
I've been known to use it off and on in edit descs as well
 
I think others' edit descriptions is where I picked it up
Also, a bit of a general question directed at the community at large:
Catija says in this comment that the only SE policy regarding standardization of spelling relates to tags, and links to this answer on meta.SE
69
A: What should the standard spelling be - British or US?

Shog9 Does SOFU have an accepted standard on language and spelling? Which is it? For bodies, no. For tags, US-English. Titles don't actually need to be consistent (tags absolutely do!), but if you think anyone might want to search for a question then you would do well to use the more common spel...

I only bring this up because there's a tag, with the "theater" spelling as a synonym
Should the synonymization be the other way around? Does it matter?
 
I agree that tags should use American spellings as the "default" -- Queen's spellings can be synonymized in if need be, but extant tags don't need to be changed as long as both exist and are synonymous
I don't think the "order" of tag synonymization matters much at all
 
true
It'd only theoretically matter for "consistency" but I doubt it's really an issue here
 
24
A: Standardization of English, etc.

BESW Some common reasons to edit are: to fix grammatical or spelling mistakes to clarify the meaning of a post without changing it to correct minor mistakes or add addendums / updates as the post ages to add related resources or hyperlinks Try to make the post substantively be...

 
yeah, I found the comment I mentioned by Catija as a comment on that question itself
also, a totally different question: is essentially a D&D-specific version/subset of the tag?
I found the latter tag on this question, and edited in the former, but wasn't sure whether both were necessary or if I should just remove the latter:
2
Q: How should a DM resolve a smooth-talking player with a weak Charisma score PC?

ArcemiusThis is an old problem, but one I am curious to find an answer to. I had created a character, Bard/Rogue, Half-Elf, super crazy Charisma score and skills with expertise, who was set up with all the works to handle any charismatic needs our party wished to partake of, such as talking our way out o...

 
6:00 AM
"Attributes" is also specific game jargon for many things that aren't like ability scores at all.
 
also true. here it specifically refers to ability scores, so I guess I'll get rid of the attributes tag
 
 
3 hours later…
8:47 AM
Off-site RPG history question by dndnrsn: "what is the earliest game to have “plot points” or “fate points” or any number of similar names, and are they more common now than they used to be?" slatestarcodex.com/2019/01/02/open-thread-118-25/…
2
 
9:45 AM
@b_jonas That might be a bit tricky to answer because a Fate point packs quite many different functions into one
 
 
5 hours later…
2:32 PM
Yeah, but I'd be shocked if a table-currency that directly affects narrative isn't already in some use in the late 70s. In the six years after D&D we see a rally rapid blossoming of lots of ideas in a hurry. Many just took a while to catch on in a large way....
 
2:55 PM
Nits, didn't GURPS have a feature like that? (Memory foggy ...)
 
 
1 hour later…
3:57 PM
@KorvinStarmast I'm only tangentially aware of GURPS. (But aware enough to bet on "yes" when the questions "did GURPS have ______?")
=)
 
4:24 PM
@nitsua60 yeah, GURPs had a lot of features.
 
 
1 hour later…
5:26 PM
0
Q: How should we format spell names?

enkryptorShould spell names be capitalized and/or italicized? I've seen examples of both: An example of capitalizing a spell name (command -> Command) — How does the Staff of the Python work? An example of the opposite editing (Arcane Lock -> arcane lock) — What mundane means can overcome Arcane Lock? ...

 
 
2 hours later…
7:06 PM
Guys, I need just one reopen vote on my post.
0
Q: Which is more powerful, an arcanist or an exploiter wizard?

Baskakov_DmitriyFor playing in Pathfinder Society, I'm trying to decide whether to play either a level 1 Arcanist or a level 1 Wizard with the archetype Exploiter wizard. While still adhering to Society guidelines, I'd like my character to be as powerful as possible — able to cast the most and widest variety of...

(Please, read this Meta before voting) rpg.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/8724/…
6
Q: What can be done with my question about Exploiter Wizards and Arcanists to save it?

Baskakov_DmitriyI have asked a question about comparing the Arcanist with an Exploiter Wizard. It got closed quickly, then reopened, now it's getting closed again. Before a full close-reopen war starts, I'd like to discuss the possible problems related to this question here on Meta. I ask everyone who sees ...

 
7:37 PM
seems to have gotten that vote
 
7:48 PM
Random question: (D&D 5e) How much cost Oil of Etherealness (DMG page 183)? DMG page 135 suggests a price from 501 gp to 5,000 gp, which isn't very especific. In this link a person suggested 1,920 gp, but I don't know why exactly that number (if I was a random number, why not 2,000 gp?). I want to know if that is an official or common price.
 
It looks like the prices are based on users in the thread. None of it is official.
 
That said, I've (personally) been pleased with the results of using Sane Magical Prices.
 
From what I can see in the thread, the user wanted to assign prices based on how useful/powerful the items are, relative to other items of that rarity
 
The "why" will be that a large userbase felt it was more useful than a +1 shield and less useful than a staff of the python.
 
Oh, so there isn't an official price?
 
7:59 PM
Official from WotC? No.
 
That guide has some weird things. DMG guide says that Common items cost 50-100 gp. Each pellet of Dust of Dryness (common), cost 120 gp in that guide. I think they aren't obeying the current official rules, isn't it?
 
Did you read all the introductory matter? The author is claiming (with some good reason, I believe) that the DMG pronouncements on the matter are crap and completely disregards them.
 
For being exactly, all the magical Dusts are more expensive XD
@nitsua60 Oh, I'm sorry, I just went directly to the prices
Ohhh, you have right, I've just read it
 
It's worth reading the whole thread. You'll see (a) why they felt the need to do this (DMG is useless), (b) the reasoning behind the large categories they're divided into, (c) some discussion on the relative pricing of specific items, and by then end you'll have a sense of how much you agree/disagree with certain fundamental assumptions.
Then if you find yourself disagreeing with any particular item, it'll be a lot easier to go back and think about why that might be. And if you notice a lot of those disagreements you can classify them and re-price the list yourself.
(I, for example, feel like it's worth discounting the price of basically every consumable by about 25% or more--in my experience players are such hoarders of consumables that they'll actually use them less than their "pure" relative power makes them worth.)
 
Ok, thanks
 
8:09 PM
Here's a list of posts where other users have cited the list, so you can see some of their reasoning, too: rpg.stackexchange.com/search?q=sane+magical+price
(I.e. don't just take my word for anything!)
=D
 
8:25 PM
yeah, the sane prices guide is worth using, even if only as a rough ballparker for the relative value of things (what any given vendor might be willing to sell or buy for is a different matter)
but the guidance in the DMG is tremendously vague, mostly useless and item rarity is extremely loosely coupled to how powerful magic items actually are
 
@Carcer I was about to fire up a spreadsheet to consider how coupled the rarities and prices-as-proxy-for-power are, then remembered the existence of this answer:
34
A: Is item rarity really tied to how powerful it is?

nitsua60Rarity and usefulness/power are very weakly correlated, in my experience. This has been discussed elsewhere (reddit, GitP, ENWorld), primarily when 5e was first released. I'll point you to my favorite resource, the Sane Magical Prices Index by GitP user Saidoro: I've used it for years in order t...

 
8:42 PM
@kviiri The original question is longer and should tell a bit more about what the poster is looking for.
I didn't want to quote all of it in chat.
 
9:23 PM
D&D 5e oils are vials or flasks?
 
@EnderLook Either? It seems fair to assume that they'd be sold and carried in appropriate containers
vials, flasks, test tubes, pipettes, balloons, those little shampoo bottles you see in fancy hotels, etc
 
I think I didn't formulate fine the question. Does oils has a volume of 4 fluid ounces or 1 pint?
It's a bit silly my question, but I like to know that details
 
Each oil has enough volume for 1 use
 
@MikeQ And 1 use uses how much volume? :)
 
I know, I just wanted to know the size of the container / the volume of the oil.
 
9:36 PM
100% I guess :D
 
Yes, it uses 100%
 
@RyanfaeScotland That I am asking!
A 100% of what? An use?
 
@EnderLook Keep in mind that 5e was designed to abstract away these kinds of details. Previous editions were more precise.
 
I have no idea, but I think that is what Mike is hinting at.
 
Oh :(
 
9:39 PM
Okay, the table of adventuring gear in PHB says 1 flask of oil weights about 1 lb, and a potion weighs about 1/2 lb
 
@MikeQ But that is standar oil, not magic oil, isn't it?
 
Correct
 
@MikeQ That means potions are dense. I've understood that potions are inside vials, whichs carries 4 fl. oz, that amount of water would be 1/4 lb, not 1/2 lb. Potions has 2 gr/cm3.
Or does that count the weight of the vial itself? That would be very interesting, that means a vials weights 1/2 lb!
 
Again, 5e is not meant to be a physics simulator. The numbers are not meant to be exact.
 
That is true. They should make an Unearthed Arcana about that!
 
9:47 PM
It also doesn't assume that all potions in the D&D universe are stored in identically-sized containers
 
@MikeQ Oh, no! That statement has just killed me! x_x
 
Did you play any previous editions of D&D? Or pathfinder?
 
10:01 PM
@MikeQ No, but I downloaded a guide of D&D 3.5 and 4. When I am bored sometimes I read a bit of it.
It's very interesting that Wizards had familiars in D&D 3
And the D&D 4 rituals
I found the complexity of D&D 3.5 quite interesting, but I don't like the fact that there aren't saving throws per each ability score. The first guide I read was 5e, and I take the fact that each ability has its own score so natural that I find weird D&D 3.5 :)
 
10:26 PM
@EnderLook Yes, complexity can be interesting and make the system more robust, but it also means the system can be more confusing and harder to learn and play
It was all about big numbers, hundreds of rules, and thousands of character options
 
10:38 PM
yeah -- complex, highly non-orthogonal systems like 3.5e also are prone to breakage of both types -- either stuff that works really well that wasn't intended to work well (which can be good and bad), or stuff that sounds cool, but doesn't work so well when you try to use it (which is simply frowny-face)
 
So when making 5e, the designers asked themselves "Okay, we want the players to be able to create similar adventures as in 3.5, but which information do we really need to specify?"
"If we included the volume of oil, weight of a scroll, or length of a longbow, would that extra information make the game better?"
 
@MikeQ They should make an extra guide for that specific values! Like the circunference of a platinum coin!
 
@EnderLook but that info also depends on setting etc
 
@Shalvenay I know, I have read a lot about coins in D&D
 
And most of it is complete nonsense from a numismatic perspective.
 
11:20 PM
FWIW I prefer to assume that most of the weight of a potion is in the container, in order that it is durable enough to withstand the knockabout it must be getting as part of an adventurer's gear
 
@Carcer a very good point indeed, small vial, yet quite sturdy
 
Ben
There was a question about that recently... About Alchemists Fire. The player was worried about it smashing in the bag during travel and basically the answer was "The rules say nothing about it being so delicate it needs extra care when travelling - so don't worry about it"
Morning all!
 
@Carcer Good idea
 
I'm pretty sure I picked it up from here at some point, so won't take credit for originality
 
Ben
11:35 PM
So I have a PC that was left in a bit of a Schrödinger situation. Basically a 50/50 chance of survival against a BBEG, that never panned out. I still do use him occasionally, in one offs and as a stand in. I'm wondering if I can spin him to illustrate that "both dead and not dead" characteristic
 
What if the PC faked their death and joined the BBEG under a new alias
 
@MikeQ LOL
 
Is there a guide of WotC or anything to design quests or missions?
 
@EnderLook Have you tried the DMG?
 
@MikeQ I just was going to delete my question because I found the chapter 3 of DMG
 
11:42 PM
@Ben Or the PC won, but got undead-ified in the process, and now they're cursed to wander the world and pop up in other heroes' storylines
 
Ben
Well the situation is long gone now. Lol. @daze413 ran a game that sort of started at that point, and went on into exploration of the underworld(?). I'm just thinking of somehow making him undead/a physical spectre or something
 

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