TRPG General Chat

12:17 AM

You instantaneously move or otherwise change the flow of the water as you direct...

You (instantaneously move) or (otherwise change the flow of the water) as you direct,

You instantaneously (move) or (otherwise change the flow of the water) as you direct,

@EnderLook Well, Sorcerer gets Con proficiency (helps you concentrate on spells), which is so good many spellcasters take a feat just to get it. So in terms of starting class, I would say sorcerer is better.

After that, it depends what you want your character to do. The most common choice is to be a sorcerer with a (usually 2-level) dip in warlock for some extra goodies.

But you're the one who's planning on multiclassing between the two. Why is that? What's your goal?

BESW

trogdor

Lol

Shalvenay

12:51 AM

hey there @MilesBedinger, welcome to the RPG.SE lair :)

Rubiksmoose

1:12 AM

@RyanfaeScotland What game they are playing absolutely can determine whether or not they are a problem player. Systems set a lot of behavior expectations, and at worst it would be more information to help with their issue. I don't see a downside.

I could be off base there, but that was my thinking

RyanfaeScotland

1:28 AM

Hey @Rubiksmoose,

But the way I read it the question isn't 'Am I a problem player' it is 'How can I tell'

Sure, systems set a lot of behavior expectations, and one way to tell if you are a problem player is if you constantly break those expectations in a way that is detrimental to the overall enjoyment of others

No need to know the game or the behaviour expectation to be able to answer that

V2Blast

for the following question, it's unclear what exactly the confusion or misconception is:

3

Q: Damage Resistance / Vulnerability: Double Damage or Dice?

When dealing with monsters who have resistance or vulnerability to a specific damage type, I've been having my players roll the expected damage and I'll half or double it behind the screen. I've recently found a DM who tells the players outright if the monster is resistant or vulnerable, and, giv...

Per my comment:
"It seems like you're asking two different questions combined into one. One part seems to be about whether the DM should tell the player that the enemy is resistant/vulnerable or not. The other part seems to be whether the damage dice should be halved/doubled, or the damage itself should be halved/doubled. (This part is addressed by the rules; have you read them?) However, it's not clear why you're assuming that not telling the player = halve/double the actual damage, and that telling the player = halve/double the number of damage dice. Could you clarify your reasoning there?"

but it's one vote short of being closed

RyanfaeScotland

I guess if you roll extra / less dice you are giving away the fact that they have a strange effect

So it is halving / doubling the score to keep it secret and keeping it secret, or rolling extra / less which isn't secret and telling players why

His example doesn't quite match as he is using an attack with 1 dice in it, would be better if he gave an example with 2 dice and said 'tell the player to roll 1' but it still looks like that is what he is getting at.

nitsua60

1:49 AM

@V2Blast thanks for the title edit--doing so much work on the body I didn't notice the title!

Shalvenay

2:11 AM

hey there @nitsua60 -- mind if I ping you on Discord?

nitsua60

shoot

Ender Look

2:40 AM

@Miniman My brother wants a huge amount of Damage per Round. He found that is quite easy to make a super Eldrich Blast instead of a weapond build (because that takes too much feats and the damage difference isn't far superior).

He isn't sure if make 2 or 3 / 18 or 17 Warlock-Sorcerer or Sorcerer-Warlock (this last of course would be 3 / 17). All the guides he has read has a lot of Sorcerer level (he thinks due sorcery points) and only 2 or 3 Warlock levels, but he is wondering why not do the opposite. Note: At the moment he is thinking in being a Favored Soul Sorcerer (XgtE) and Celestial (XgtE) / Hexblade (not sure) Warlock. He isn't sure if use Celestial (greater healing and roleplaying) or Hexblade (more damage).

He also considered the Fiend but having low level in Warlock it isn't worthy the benefit of killing enemies

For his Eldrich Blast build, would you suggest any especific subclass of Sorcerer and Warlock?

V2Blast

@nitsua60 Hehe, no problem. I was just about to finish editing the body when you finished editing before me. :)

MikeQ

3:12 AM

Howdy @Black

Black

o/

Got a bit lost in a post and sent it down the river I think. Was suggested to come in here to maybe work on it.

Or, ya know, in the event I can figure it out in here maybe never post it XD

MikeQ

Yep. Since there's a lot of context that's dependent on knowing D&D5E, I'm pretty sure it can be a fit for RPG.SE

Black

*Got a bit too excited

nitsua60

@Black \o

(post link for other chatizens who may not have seen it:

-1

Q: You can actually win. What are the odds?

I just won at Deck of Many Things. I'm legit curious. Beyond that actually. What are the odds of what just happened, happening? Also the DM reading my character flaws and letting me find this is one of the lowest moves I've ever seen pulled. Just leveled to level 11. So I have 0 XP. Happen to b...

dnd-5e

(I've got to run--clocking out for the night. Ping me with any specifics.)

Black

Sleep well o/

nitsua60

3:15 AM

Thanks!

Black

responded to you btw before you poof

nitsua60

I'm sure Mike, et al. will take good care of you =)

Black

stares at Mike

nitsua60

@Black You mean the "beneficial order" bit?

Black

Mhmm

nitsua60

3:16 AM

Are you asking, then, "what's the best order to draw all the cards from the DoMT?"

(That's very different than "what's the probability that I draw a particular ordering from a deck," I think. One's an RPG question--possibly unanswerable?--while the other's a straightforward math question.)

linksassin

@Black I didn't mean to point it out for removal. I meant you need to define what "beneficial order" means.

Black

More like: What is the odds of drawing cards in a order that's good. My example was Fool always before Jester. And tapping out when only bad cards are left.

MikeQ

Yeah if you're just asking about the ordering (and omit info about your level, alignment, backstory, NPC interactions, etc) then it's more easily a math question, although probably still answerable here

Black

Yeah, those were more like extra unbelievableness, got a little carried away. It was kinda hype.

MikeQ

Understandable lol

I guess you'd have to define "good ordering"

nitsua60

3:19 AM

But I'll admit, there are many things in the post that confuse me. The last line of the first paragraph is befuddling. The first bullet point is strange, since one doesn't reset their XP at leveling up. For the second bullet, are we supposed to assume you're randomly assigned alignment? Does your alignment even matter for anything else in the question? Then there's the "I gave away all my money" bit. "What are the odds I just gave away all my money?" doesn't seem like an RPGSE question.
But I digress. And I'm supposed to be heading home.

Black

That might be a question in-and-of itself

The XP was near 0. So essentially 0.

nitsua60

@MikeQ Or, at least, the things that'd make an ordering good? But I don't truck with the DMoT, so I'll have to leave that to wiser heads.

MikeQ

Technically as a level 11 character you should have somewhere between 85000-99999 XP, since characters don't "spend" XP to level up in 5E

nitsua60

@Black If the XP was near 0 then you were a first-level PC.

linksassin

@Black XP is cumulative, you've don't spend XP to level up.

nitsua60

3:20 AM

@MikeQ Technically right--the best kind of right!

Black

Alignment matters for The Balance which only disregards True Neutral

nitsua60

=D

Anyway, nighty-night!

MikeQ

What you could do is label each card as either beneficial or harmful, then count how many of each label are in the deck, and then calculate the probability of drawing N consecutive "beneficial" cards

Black

Near 0 as in near the "0 Limit" for that level. As per the rules on The Fool

Yeah, but order for sure matters. It's not just a hypergeometric or I would have done it.

linksassin

If you want the question answered you will need to provide specifics on what order you want to draw the cards in.

Black

3:27 AM

Hmmm, well if I can't get the community to help on the corner cases on that one. Which is an rpg.se topic and the major stumbling block as detailed in my answer attempt, then I guess I'll just delete and move on. I might get it wrong. But apparently I might get it wrong here too if I'm the mighty overlord of correct ordering :/

MikeQ

Is it: Find the probability of drawing a specific ordering of N cards from a deck size D, where some of the cards in the deck are replaced but others aren't?

Black

Sorry about the unclear question btw, shoulda been explicit: "What are the odds of a completely beneficial ordering?"

Not just specific, that's easy

What happens when ordering A,B, and C are all valid beneficial orderings?

And/or, given how Hypergeometric involves factorials, what if that set is large per step?

Can we pare that down for this specific case?

MikeQ

Still unsure. It might require calculating all possible beneficial orderings, and then dividing by the total possible orderings

Or as odds, the total possible beneficial orderings / total possible non-beneficial orderings

Black

There's also 3 classes of cards:

Make that 4, beyond ordering there is:
Campaign Wipe (Bad)
Stop Condition (Talon)
Good
Bad

linksassin

Ok, so there could be multiple beneficial ordering, including drawing 1 good card and stopping?

Black

3:37 AM

Mhmm

linksassin

Wouldn't there also be a 'neutral' category? The fool isn't exactly a good card but in your situation it won't hurt you

Black

Well, yeah that's true. Just lumped it into good to keep the class count low

linksassin

If you sort the cards by those categories in your question and ask "What are the odds of drawing only beneficial cards given these categories?" that should be answerable

MikeQ

I'd categorize Campaign Wipe in the "Bad" category, since neither would appear in a purely beneficial ordering

Black

Also my brain fratzed, you could replace the last category with neutral, wipe was really the only bad.

What Mike said

linksassin

3:39 AM

The problem with the question is that whether or not a card is beneficial is somewhat opinion based

So if you sort the cards in the question then there can be a definitive correct answer.

MikeQ

@linksassin Hence my earlier suggestion to (arbitrarily) assign categories to the cards, and then find the probability given those categories

Black

Yep tried to add via the context. Talon before Wish is Campaign Wipe. But Neutral afterwards. And Fool after Jester makes Fool from Neutral to Bad.

MikeQ

Ah, so the categories are conditional

Black

yes

That was the only problem as I've stated.

linksassin

Put the card in both categories and add the condition after it.

MikeQ

3:43 AM

Maybe we should summon our resident math elemental to help out

linksassin

@Black There was a lot of information thrown at us and we may have missed understanding that.

MikeQ

@Xirema any insight here

Black

Fair, the hint at that was mostly in my answer attempt which I edited out as well. So MikeQ has even more reason to not get it.

nitsua60

How are you getting around the DMoT's rule on the number of cards you draw?

linksassin

My suggestion is to edit the question with the categories and conditions. Explain the number of cards that can be drawn and any other restrictions on ordering. It will still be a broad and difficult to answer question but it should be possible to answer.

nitsua60

3:46 AM

You say in the post you draw until your artifact's gone, but the deck requires you to declare the number of draws beforehand.

Black

Our DM "homebrewed". The deck has single-use cards instead of being the infinite "funbox" that it is. Which makes certain cards less useful and prevents absolutely breaking the deck (I would have max stats right now).

So single-draw, no replacement.

MikeQ

Is it: Given the deck size and the number of bad cards, find the number of orderings where the following conditions are true:
- none of the cards are bad
- the wish is drawn before the talon
- the fool is drawn before the jester

Black

Normally, afaik, you could do single draw as much as wanted. The artifact was an RP reason for my character to not be obsessed

nitsua60

> Once a card is drawn, it fades from existence. (DMG p.162)

Black

Unless the card is the Fool or the Jester, the card reappears in the deck, making it possible to draw the same card twice.

Sentence following

nitsua60

3:48 AM

@Black No, that's not how the deck works.

linksassin

@nitsua60 You can repeatedly choose to draw 1 card can't you?

nitsua60

> Before you draw a card, you must declare how many cards you indent to draw.

linksassin

@Black there is no replacement by RAW

Black

Let me pull up RAW, using a third-party reference.

Yep that sentence I posted is RAW

nitsua60

@linksassin I suppose if you want a cheese board....

Oh, I see. Everyone else is going with a reading that moots an entire paragraph of the DMG. Gotcha. I'll bow out again.

Black

3:52 AM

So:
a) Single pull infinitely is valid
b) Our DM put a stop to that by having all cards act like The Fool and The Jester and disappear after use.

nitsua60

@MikeQ The Fates screws with all of the conditional logic, btw. It needs to be factored in for its ability to void a bad draw.

@Black What? ~~The Fool and the Jester are the two that don't disappear.~~ And how does having cards disappear after use put a stop to repeated, single draws anyway?

Black

Ummm.

nitsua60

Sorry, too late for this sheep.

G'night. =\

Black

Sleepy sheep forgiven :)
For posterity on others that stumble here:
**Unless** the card is the Fool or the Jester, **the card reappears** in the deck, making it possible to draw the same card twice

linksassin

@nitsua60 I think you are confused. All cards reappear in the deck except for Fool and Jester. Meaning that all other cards could be drawn repeatedly.

Black's dm changed that so that no card can be drawn repeatedly

nitsua60

3:56 AM

@linksassin Yeah, I reversed the sentence. M;bad.

linksassin

We've all made that mistake answering while tired

nitsua60

I'll blame the shutdown.

(#toosoon?)

Black

Yeah, that's a good house rule btw. Like for real.

Isn't that next week? XD

I'm going to take a breather for a couple minutes. Be back real soon. Let me know if you think of anything, Q wording, actual math to use, etc. :d

Black

4:11 AM

Mechanic had no ideas.

linksassin

I suggest you have a go at editing the question as suggested. Then we can provide further feedback if required

Black

Gave it a shot. What do you think?

linksassin

You need to add the categories for each card. This is certainly a lot better than it started though

Black

Left some flavor to the question, because why not. But I can rip that too.

Alright let me do that...

linksassin

That amount of flavour is fine. Just adds context rather than confusing the question

Black

4:23 AM

Keeping the 2 missing cards in, won't be accurate for my particular situation but more applicable in general.

linksassin

probably yes. Plus should give you a better overall answer

Black

4:36 AM

Think that does it?

linksassin

thats fairly good I suppose. It's answerable not. I'll vote to reopen

now*

Vylix

@V2Blast I think the formatting for spell is lowercase italic?

linksassin

@Vylix correct. There is a meta post somewhere with a full breakdown but I can't find it

@Black you can delete the comments on your question now. Helps to keep the site cleaner

@Vylix rpg.stackexchange.com/a/133462/48759

couldn't find it because it's a main site post not a meta

Black

4:55 AM

Wooh, that took a while. Alright, thanks @linksassin, @MikeQ, @nitsua60. Hopefully I end up with something :3
Sorry again about the over-excitement XP

Not sure if I got all the beneficial order kinks as well, if someone notices some let me know.

Nai nai o/

V2Blast

5:09 AM

@Vylix It is, just didn't bother changing that part in my edit

kviiri

8:54 AM

Halloo

trogdor

9:05 AM

hi

BESW

9:18 AM

[distracted wave] Teaching myself a new design layout program.

Got hit with a one-two punch of increased Adobe subscription rates and a countdown timer on a MacOS update that'll make my old no-subscription Adobe programs completely obsolete instead of just mostly obsolete.

trogdor

9:40 AM

oh man

Rubiksmoose

2:18 PM

Morning all

kviiri

Hi Rubik

What's up?

Rubiksmoose

Not a whole lot. Going to Florida after work that though for some vacay so that's fun. As usual we failed to have everything packed in time lol.

How about you?

kviiri

Wrapping things up at work, had a very productive week and I'm happy about that

Going to kick off the weekend with that "RPG season opening" i've mentioned a couple of times. Sitting down to discuss game plans over a glass of beer or glögg

The Oracle

0

Q: What can be done with my question about Exploiter Wizards and Arcanists to save it?

I have asked a question about comparing the Arcanist with an Exploiter Wizard. It got closed quickly, then reopened, now it's getting closed again. Before a full close-reopen war starts, I'd like to discuss the possible problems related to this question here on Meta. I ask everyone who sees ...

discussion closed-questions

kviiri

We finally got a proper winter here, a few of my coworkers came to work by skiing

Rubiksmoose

2:30 PM

@kviiri that's right! That's exciting right? I love moving forward with new rpg projects.

kviiri

@Rubiksmoose Yeah! I like the idea of sitting down to discuss RPGs face to face

We haven't been doing that enough

We used to have an hour of sauna before sessions in one campaign but it started to eat into game time so it dropped to save time.

In retrospect, it also meant we got the chitchat out of the way and got to actually start the game at a defined point :)

Baskakov_Dmitriy

@kviiri Where are you from? In our country (Russia) they clean up the snow, so skiing is not an option. :(

Rubiksmoose

@kviiri Sauna sounds like a very relaxing way to start gaming! But yeah I can see how it would eat into game time and cause wishy washyness as far as actually starting.

I'm pretty happy because my group not only killed off a campaign that was veering rapidly towards un-fun for almost all of us, but we seem to have started a new one with some fun premise and new expectations (aslo in 5e though). However, I also expressed that am I pretty tired of medieval high fantasy and am extra excited that my group seems to be willing to consider some other genre for our next go (after this one which hopefully will be relatively short).

kviiri

@Baskakov_Dmitriy Helsinki, Finland, but many of my coworkers work in places away from the city center (I work in consulting so we go to all around to work)

Rubiksmoose

Of course, that kind of setting change also means that probably we will be moving away from 5e for a bit which excites me even more.

kviiri

2:40 PM

@Rubiksmoose It worked superbly until timetables became a real concern :)

Rubiksmoose

@kviiri curse time (adult time especially) for being an extremely precious resource.

kviiri

Yuh :(

We had the advantage that we could book the sauna and the club room we played in from my block, so we didn't have to make a lengthy transfer between the two

Rubiksmoose

@kviiri Does that mean you didn't have any lady-folk in your group or do they have mixed gender saunas there?

kviiri

@Rubiksmoose We do mixed saunas, they're reasonably common among student folks in general

Baskakov_Dmitriy

@kviiri And is it OK for the majority of people? In my country, it's very uncommon.

Carcer

2:46 PM

I've noted yon scandinavians tend to really not care very much about that sort of thing

Rubiksmoose

@kviiri neat. I think they do have them here (Michigan USA), but not very common? Then again, saunas are not very common here in my experience. I myself have only ever been in a couple and I'm not sure they were even full fledged saunas.

Xirema

@MikeQ This is in reference to that Deck of Many Things question?

kviiri

@Baskakov_Dmitriy Very few consider it inherently immoral in any way. Many people do it among their family or among close friends. Most won't do it with strangers though.

@Rubiksmoose Michigan does have a lot of people of Nordic descent iirc, maybe a bit of the culture survived with the colonists

brb

nitsua60

@Baskakov_Dmitriy hiya--long time, no see!

Anyone know how I can enter a diamond-character into a comment? I've seen @doppelgreener and mxy and ssd do it some times, and now I've finally got an excuse to "issue a diamond instruction."

kviiri

3:07 PM

It's a standard unicode character

U+2666

nitsua60

I believe you, but I don't know how that helps.

kviiri

I, uh, write those with a key combination that I don't remember. Muscle memory (and I'm on mobile so I can't do it to see how I do it)

nitsua60

Okay--thanks.

kviiri

Could it have been ctrl-shift-u, then 2666

nitsua60

M-X M-C, or something like that =)

2666

Xirema

3:09 PM

♦♦

nitsua60

(show-off)

Xirema

I was able to do it with [ALT]-[NUMPAD4].

nitsua60

♦♦

WHOA!

Watch out, RPGSE... the sheep stumbled into a diamond mine!

@Xirema Thanks =)

kviiri

Oh yeah, it might be platform specific

Xirema

♫♫duh-duh-duh-duh, duh, duh, duh-da-duh!♫♪♫♫

nitsua60

3:10 PM

☺☻♥♦♣♠•◘○

♂♀♪♫

I need an eighth rest....

(Took a sec to get used to the fact that it's upon ALT's release the character inserts. Which makes sense, when you think that the input processor doesn't know ahead of time how many digits you'll enter.)

Colin Gross

@nitsua60 For me it's Ctrl-shift-u, then a hex code, then spacebar.

Sir Cinnamon

𝄾

eighth rest is very small

Xirema

@SirCinnamon Aww, my browser won't render that. =(

Rubiksmoose

is there a code for emdash?

Sir Cinnamon

@Xirema That's odd, it's pretty old. What font do you see the chat in?

@Rubiksmoose 2014

kviiri

3:16 PM

@SirCinnamon well, it's only an eighth

Colin Gross

@Rubiksmoose —

Sir Cinnamon

—

Rubiksmoose

@SirCinnamon Chat is in wingdings for me. Isn't that the default?

Sir Cinnamon

@Rubiksmoose So you guys don't see it all in emoji?

wild

kviiri

@Rubiksmoose I use linux so it's in Linglongs

Baskakov_Dmitriy

3:19 PM

@nitsua60 Well, back in the hobby. :) I hope, I finally managed to find a stable party with a sane GM

Rubiksmoose

@SirCinnamon alt+2014? because that does not work for me

Baskakov_Dmitriy

▐

Sir Cinnamon

@Rubiksmoose I'm not on a windows machine so I can't actually test, but it should be. fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/2014/index.htm

Rubiksmoose

@Baskakov_Dmitriy You don't want a sane GM (good luck with that!) you want one who is the same type of insane as you are :)

Baskakov_Dmitriy

Well, I frequently use it for Alt+0223 (ß), as this symbol is not present on my keyboard, but is essential for writing in German.

Sir Cinnamon

3:22 PM

⸻ 2E3B for this big boy

Baskakov_Dmitriy

@Rubiksmoose Nobody is sane in the hobby?

Yuuki

@Rubiksmoose ALT+0151

On Windows, at least.

Rubiksmoose

@Yuuki — bingo! thanks!

Now to forget that instantly.

kviiri

@Baskakov_Dmitriy It's always relative

Baskakov_Dmitriy

—

That's ALT+0151 for me

Win 8 here

But also works the same on my Linux Mint

Xirema

3:30 PM

@SirCinnamon I think I'm rendering in Times New Roman.

Colin Gross

@Baskakov_Dmitriy That's interesting. I use the unicode points for characters. Do some of the Windows code points line up with the unicode?

Sir Cinnamon

@Xirema Odd, mine's Verdana

Colin Gross

I feel like the answer to any deck of many things question should be prefaced with "Don't use a deck of many things."

Baskakov_Dmitriy

@ColinGross IDK. No magic applied here, but it works.

Rubiksmoose

3:53 PM

@ColinGross Really depends on the campaign. But if you care about the result of the campaign or its longevity (or the longevity of the characters) and you are playing a wacky super high powered campaign I could see it being fun for a bit. However, I agree that for the vast majority it is just not great.

Colin Gross

@Rubiksmoose Sure. Deck of many things for a quick lark. Doing it that way makes most of the questions about it irrelevant. You don't have to worry about how to fit it into a campaign.

Rubiksmoose

@ColinGross A valid and very good point.

Colin Gross

@Rubiksmoose Awww heck. I wasted mine today on a deck of many things chat comment. Well... I'm calling it a day. Time to pack it in.

Yuuki

@ColinGross Only use a deck of many things when your DM is an amateur magician.

Sir Cinnamon

The only use of a deck of many things is when you're trying to get all your cargo out of your hold so you put it up top

Transcript for