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12:07 AM
Lol
 
Ben
In all honesty though, I am exhausted haha. No idea why but it's only 10am and I'm seriously considering a long nap
and by "seriously considering", I suppose I mean "contemplating how long I can hide in the printer room at work with the lights off without arousing suspicion"
 
Same time here, not as tired as it sounds like you are but I was considering not going to work XD
I did though,... Stupid responsibility
 
Ben
12:26 AM
Remember when you were like, 12 years old, and you used to sing along to Blink 182 like "WORK SUCKS... I KNOW"
Except now you really do know.
 
Yeah, execpt for listening to blink 182 or ever singing along to anything ever
 
Ben
Lol
 
But other than that yes
 
Ben
12:45 AM
@nitsua60 can I search for users in the 200-word RPGs? My friend submitted one
 
They didn't tell you the name of the game?
 
@Ben Is it because Monster Hunter World released recently? Because that's a pretty common cause of exhaustion at the moment.
 
Ben
@Miniman Lol. Nah, I have never played Monster Hunter actually, and it doesn't really catch my fancy.
@trogdor No haha
We got distracted
 
Fair enough - it's definitely not for everyone.
Kind of a weird hybrid of WoW and Dark Souls lol.
 
Ben
Yeah. I played WoW once. They did not get my Credit details. Haha
 
12:54 AM
I mean, I'm using WoW as a generally accessible example of classic MMORPG gameplay, but yeah.
I personally only played about an hour of it before deciding I wasn't going to finish the demo, let alone play the game.
 
Ben
Warcraft on the other hand was one of my favourite games. Diablo 2 and Warcraft 3 took up most of my time when I should have been doing my homework :P
 
I don't know if I can say Warcraft is one of my favourite games, because I don't actually especially love its gameplay. But as an engine for custom maps...oooooooh, yeah.
 
1:23 AM
@Miniman lol, I've been noticing you are playing Monster Hunter World while I am playing Ori and Hollow Knight
My brother is playing that a lot too right now
Not my kind of game but it definitely seems popular right now
I didn't realize how Much I missed having a meaty Metroid/Vania type game
But as with all of them figuring out where to go next is giving me the most trouble
Also the puzzles in Ori aren't always as easy to figure out as I expected
(I'm a little stuck at the lava mountain place,... )
 
1:40 AM
How are you liking it? Also, stuck figuring out what to do, or stuck trying to do it?
 
@Miniman I like em both a lot, and I'm stuck figuring it out
 
@trogdor Wait, you're playing both at the same time? Wow, I could never handle that.
 
I started Ori and got pretty far before Hollow Knight but yeah
To be fair it's a loot more Hollow Knight right now
 
Well, non-spoilery hints for Horu: you start by going all the way up, then work your way down.
 
I like it a little better, but mostly the puzzle I am on now in Ori is too frustrating to figure out
@Miniman I did one side already, there is only one area left open to me but I can't see what to do in there
It's a platform moving puzzle
But I can't,.... Figure out how to use those platforms to get anywhere
 
1:46 AM
Oh, I think I know the one you mean - you can move the platforms, but it moves both of them at once?
 
Yeah
Plus it's too fast
And I can only move them from one spot
I can't possibly get up to the second platform as they move
Which I'm sure I'm supposed to do
 
I don't remember it well enough to give useful advice, sorry.
Where are you up to in Hollow Knight?
 
No problem
 
@Ben If you go to their downloads section you can find a pdf that contains all of the 2018 entries--search that?
 
Ben
Oh that's a good idea :D
 
1:53 AM
@Miniman I beat the Mantis Lord's,... And the Soul master and the Dung Defender
 
@trogdor Wow, nice.
I hated Soul Master.
 
And I have the dream nail and around 350 or so dreams
He was a &_##_#_
I also thought I could get dreams from him but instead it was a super up dream version of him
So I noped out of that
At least for now
 
Yeah, one of the updates added dream versions of a bunch of bosses.
 
I was already sickof his "you have to fight me twice" shenanigans
I hope no other bosses pull that cause he tricked me into dying with that
 
XD
 
1:56 AM
The very next time I beat his second form because I knew it was coming
 
One nice thing about the dream bosses, because they're dreams, you don't die - you just wake up.
So you can retry as much as you want.
 
Yeah, but I wanted a break from Soul Jerk
I'll probably kill him later
Oh, if you lose to the dream bosses do you keep the fragile trinkets?
Cause I kinda like those, I used em to beat an optional boss after learning it's pattern
But if I go in there and they break it's a hassle
I assume that I can probably use them
I didn't think of that till now,.. but I'm also not sure
It would suck if I'm wrong about that
 
I'm pretty sure they don't break in dream fights, yeah.
 
Ben
My friend must have used an alias. He's a bit like that I guess haha
There was one submission under the name of "E. E. Coli"
 
Lol
 
2:06 AM
@Ben From your perspective I used an alias =)
 
@Miniman ok, I certainly hope not
 
(I.e. I'm listed under my actual name there, rather than my online handle.)
 
Ben
@nitsua60 I thought about that haha. "Oh yeah Nits said he was a reader... Oh wait"
 
2:19 AM
Lolz
 
2:46 AM
@trogdor You can make the fragile charms unbreakable. I won't tell you how, except that it's the biggest geo sink in the game.
Oh bugger. More DLC releasing for Hollow Knight in a week. Dammit Team Cherry, I don't have time to play through your incredible game again right now!
 
Oh heck yeah
I'm already playing it so XD
@Miniman also wow I really want that
I Know They aren't the most interesting charm bonuses but they are the ones I like the most
I actually love all 3 of them
More Geo, more HP, and hitting harder are all golden bonuses to me
I can't equip all of them at once though
They take a lot of slots up
It's too bad that it might take a while to find out where to get those upgrades for them, I have a very trial and error approach to exploring
That's probably expected in metroidvanias though, I guess
 
3:04 AM
That's one thing I really like about HK - it really is cool with you exploring in any order you want.
 
Hollow Knight though,.. man it takes extra pains to hide those maps
 
On the flip side, I hate the way they did mapping.
 
@Miniman that is cool yeah, I do like that
 
Wow, as I was typing it XD
 
@Miniman yeah exactly,... I wish that was not the way they did it
 
3:06 AM
Honestly, I would've preferred it if the cartographer didn't exist. Just let me see where I've been, and I'll figure the rest out.
 
I don't like having to hunt down that NPC in every new area before I can fill a map out of the places I've already been
@Miniman YES that please
 
Instead of every area having two phases - can't see a damn thing and can see everything.
 
@Miniman not even that though
You still have to fill stuff in after finding him
I've never had a complete map Even after tracking him down
 
Oh that's right, I forgot he only fills in some. Still, I'd rather it was just me filling in everything.
 
Verifiable, the coffee, it does nothing. :v
(Though I have to be a killjoy and say a lot of narcoleptic people can drive just fine and in many places it isn't a barrier to obtaining a license, but for those who can't, it impacts their adult life immensely, so I was kind of pulled in two directions when reading this.)
 
3:08 AM
Yeah it's the worst of both worlds for me
I already get really lost in these kinds of games so easily
This is probably my only black mark on this game
Ori did maps way better
You fill it in and if you find the map stone and put it in place you get everything
Thumbs up there
 
Ben
@Pixie Apologies for any offense, not my intention :)
 
@trogdor Yeah, that was really frustrating for me in HK, especially with 1-way paths.
 
@Miniman I don't mind those personally, but in combination with the rest of it it is a little much
I feel the need to say though
After bashing it for the choices about how navigation works, the rest of the game is extremely great
 
The kind of games you're describing are likely magnitudes worse than what I'm frustrating myself with right now, but I'm trying to find all the gems in Mad Father without a guide. I only have three left, but I feel like I've interacted with almost everything in almost any way I can think of... but I'm stubborn. :P
 
@Pixie is it also Metroid Vania or is it just straight up exploration?
 
3:16 AM
@trogdor It's a horror RPG with exploration, but the maps aren't all that large, I cleared the main game in 3 hours taking my time, heh. Like I said, likely to be magnitudes less.
 
@trogdor Yes, absolutely. It's interesting, now that I think about it - normally I enjoy the early parts of a game more than the later, but it was definitely the reverse for HK.
Once you have the important movement abilities and can just explore wherever you want, it feels a lot more joyful.
 
@Pixie doesn't mean it's less worth t if you like it though XD
@Miniman wow really? Cause I feel like I'm not that far in but it is already extremely good
 
@trogdor Haha, yeah, I'm not putting it down, I just realize I'm doing it to myself. But I like finding things on my own, so it's cool. I'll find them or I won't. :v
 
@Pixie Point-and-click? Because puzzles in those are often really terrible. I'm sure trogdor also has some "fond" memories of Wizardry 8's puzzles.
 
I do use guides sometimes
 
Ben
3:19 AM
My friend is a teacher, and has said that he can attend our game if he can bring some work with him. We suggested marking by rolling a d100 to make things a bit easier
"Crit fail. Needs improvement."
 
Usually only when I feel like the game cheated me out of information though
@Miniman ugh jeez yeah some of those were just ten kinds of stupid
 
@Miniman Nah, not point and click. I think most of the puzzles aren't too difficult, or at least they aren't with some experience in the genre.
 
@trogdor Oh, I'm not saying that the early bits aren't great. Just that, once you're exploring freely rather than being limited by not having X ability, I found it was much less frustrating and more fun.
 
Oh true yeah
 
There are a lot of Japanese horror games (and western games inspired by them) made in programs like Wolf RPG Editor or RPG Maker, but it's really interesting to see what people do with the somewhat constrained format.
 
3:21 AM
@Miniman Having the dash and the dive down move really opened stuff up for me
I do think there must be between 2 and 3 more left though
Heck maybe 4 even
I'm trying to remember just how many unique things have stopped me from getting past a place
One is even a really conspicuous freaking shadow wall
 
@trogdor You also have walljump, right?
 
Yes
I beat the Mantis Lord's
You can't even get to them without that
 
I'd say there's only 2 other real movement abilities.
 
XD
Which is fair I think
@Miniman ok,...but I feel like breaking shadow walls would be nice too
XD
 
@trogdor There's abilities like the one that gets you past those shadow walls, but those don't really change how you move around, just let you get past a specific type of obstacle.
 
3:26 AM
@Miniman fair, but in many ways I count those things the same way, especially in games like this
I realize there is an important difference though
The dash, for example, really helps in boss fights
 
That's one thing I really like about Ori - almost every ability is genuinely useful, not just required for specific things. Except wallclimb, charged burst, and light grenade.
 
I doubt breaking shadow walls will do that
XD
 
@trogdor It will, enormously.
 
Wow ok fine
 
Whereas at least one of the movement abilities won't at all.
 
3:28 AM
Lol
Expectation subverted
 
HK is good at that.
 
Apparently
 
Or at least it was for me. Maybe I'm just bad at expecting the right things :P
 
As strange as it might sound, I actually got more frustrated with Ori than Hollow Knight
It's still a good game and I want to finish it, but I feel like every time I got stuck was because of a new puzzle that didn't build from a previous thing
 
It's certainly surprising.
Anything in particular?
 
3:32 AM
Yeah a few things
In all three temples I lost my grasp on where I was supposed to go
The water one I went half way down again before realizing something was wrong
They didn't seem to indicate I was supposed to go a little further up
And the wind Temple made some side paths looki like the main one
The fire one has,... Enemies it expects you to kill, that can only be killed by stomping, and no other enemy was ever like that
Execpt the rhino ish things I guess
I feel like at most of the places I got stuck at, they thought were self explanatory when they actually were not
I also got a bit frustrated every time a temple ended
The escape scenes were just slightly more brutal than I would have liked
Especially since dying meant doing all of it again
I know that sounds like I hate it, I don't
Those bits were just not optimal in my oppinion
And last is of course where I am stuck now
To the games credit, I never got stuck on a puzzle like this till now
Technical platforming and navigation were my biggest issues
I guess I described them first as puzzles, I didn't have a better shorthand word
For Hollow Knight the only frustrating part is the map
And that one time Soul BS Master's second form tilted and killed me
But with that second one murdererinating him was ample payback
XD
All that being said, I assume I have a lot more of Hollow Knight to possibly be frustrated by
It's just that getting killed by a boss fight isn't really as frustrating to me as platform challenges or navigation issues are
So one avenue HK has to frustrate me is less likely
 
3:57 AM
Not to worry - HK has far more difficult platforming than Ori.
Like, literally orders of magnitude more difficult.
 
Oh jeez
I am sure I got a small taste of that in the Mantis village
Mainly the weird platform warping from hitting spikes
I doubt I will grow to like that
So far though, at least HK has fewer moves for me to remember I have
Ori has a double jump, a slam, a wall climb, a floaty move, and a charge
Juggling knowing I have all those is hard for me
HK has some hard platfoming but so far remembering I have a move for the situation is easier
Oh and Ori also has that high/wall jump
 
chirp chirp
 
I knew I forgot one again
 
Ben
I would concur with this, for anyone that has seen the MMPR Movie Remake: medium.com/@Chris_tuffer/…
 
@Miniman don't mock me cricket, I will end your career in music XD
 
4:16 AM
@trogdor You forgot the most important ability, though. Ori has Bash, which is its most unique (and I would argue defining) ability.
 
See I keep forgetting all these moves
He has too many XD
I can't even count how many times I sat there for a minute going "what am I supposed to do here? Oh wait I can float/whatever move obviously works here"
That's not technically the games fault but
They could have made a couple fewer moves
XD
 
shrug
HK does have fewer moves, for sure.
 
I realize I am most likely in the minority on that one
But it is a real issue for me
There were a couple of times I practically crawled in spikes because I forgot I had floaty move
 
Misty Woods?
 
That was probably the place
That's where you first get it right?
Or the place after maybe?
 
4:27 AM
The place after, the one that changes as you do stuff.
 
I think that was it
That was also a tiny bit disorienting
I'm not the biggest fan of that kind of thing
No backing out of the zone after you get there, no familiar landmarks
I'm bad enough at that stuff without that kind of "help"
I still like Ori though
I hear there is a second game coming out, I still plan to play that
If I was too upset by any of those things I never would have gotten as far in the game as I have now
The only reason I stopped was because I finally can't seem to progress, and I had HK in the wings already
XD
I might look this specific puzzle up just so I don't have to figure it out
I don't like that but I feel like I have to at this point
 
I'll ask my sister for a hint - she just finished the game recently.
 
4:43 AM
That could work too
I'm all up in HK right now so I can definitely wait
Well, not right now that would be bad at work XP
 
I mean, it's on Switch, so it's not like you'd have to have it on your work computer.
 
I don't have a Switch and people would still notice XD
Besides I would feel bad about that
I need to get some amount of work done around here
 
 
2 hours later…
6:36 AM
@SirCinnamon I went and got myself Hanabi. And 4 HDMI male-male cables. And a melodica.
#shopping
My relationship survived the piano. It survived the accordion. It struggled a bit with the kazoo and the recorder. The melodica ought to be fine.
The mouth organ was also a bit risky biz.
 
Ben
@kviiri You make it sound like a war story. I can understand the recorder for sure in that regard.
 
it survived the Kazoo, hats off to you
it must be a strong one
XD
 
 
2 hours later…
8:28 AM
Kazoo was a challenge, yes
 
hehe
 
I'm also bringing the melodica to the office. Even glorious Nordic job security law may not be enough to save me!
 
8:52 AM
Why are there trupets when one can play a kazoo loud enough?
 
9:07 AM
Just dropped a question, if it's scoped poorly then any advice is appreciated.
Especially as to whether it's to opinion based - and what I could do to change that.
 
9:25 AM
Let's see
@Tiggerous I can't see your question
OK, now I can
 
It's already provoking debate.
 
@Tiggerous Seems fine to me. We get questions of that form all of the time - 'are there rules, if not what is best practice and why'. Asking for others' experience of best practice in a given scenario should not be marked as primarily opinion based
 
I think the first bolded question is good and the second one is opinion-based. While I'm sure there0s way to rework it into something good (e.g. by asking about "how do I do this thing" instead of "how do you do this thing"), I feel like it should be a separate question informed by the results of the first one. So, unless you're in a hurry, I'd cut out the last two paragraphs.
Usually, people who answer "no, there isn't a random weapon table" will also want to tell you how they solve the problem anyway.
 
It seems divisive - so I think I'll let it sit for a bit longer to get a better idea of the community consensus - thanks for both of your inputs.
 
Please note that I'm not particularly good at question analysis.
 
9:32 AM
No problem :)
My impression is that the community isn't in full agreement over an accepted definition of what is and what isn't opinion based at the moment.
 
@Tiggerous indeed, there seem to be two camps
my personal opinion (ha) is that things are moving towards being too pedantic in the wording of some questions, but I don't know if that is something other people feel as well
 
It's a fine line that seems to need to be revisited now and then due to a fairly constant influx of new members.
 
there appears to be a small core of very active users who edit and VTC questions based on their (imo overly strict) views on what counts as primarily opinion based. As the size of that core is in excess of the number of votes needed to close a question, they often have enough clout to close questions based on their interpretation. I've recently deliberately started taking a more proactive stance in voting to reopen those I disagree with because of this
 
That's good! You can also open meta questions to address specific cases that you think need the attention, or where the dialogue will help reduce the pedantry.
 
I do not believe your question is opinion based, nor do I think its necessary to split into two questions. Where questions are extremely closely linked such as your case, its fine to include them in the same question. There are loads and loads of similar examples
 
9:40 AM
The community will never align in its opinion on these things, and that's okay, even good. But we need to be in constant communication about it.
Truth emerges from the clash of differing opinions, but only when that clash is constructive and productive rather than just shouting or sulking.
 
By the way, I don't think that second part is opinion based, I've been expressing myself poorly. I'ts only going to have no discernible method of determining which answer is the best one.
 
Well it has no discernible method if people just throw out 'idea generation' style answers. But if people provide answers backed up by personal experience that they've tried and tested then I think it could be OK.
That's why I specifically asked 'what techniques for assigning these sorts of items have you found to work well in your own game?' and not just how do you think I should resolve this.
Unofortunately both of the first two answers seem to be idea generation.
 
Here's where I argue that telling them "provide me your methods that will work in my case" is better than a generic "tell me your ways, I'll see if they apply". It requires answerers to be more useful (hopefully).
 
@Tiggerous that is key. Just because answers are poor, it doesn't necessarily follow that there is a problem with the question. We seem to be having a resurgence of the problem with people throwing out ideas with no back-up to them. Its something that seems to come and go over time
 
@Wibbs that's worth a comment under those answers
 
10:03 AM
I use these:
> It's important to ["back it up,"](http://meta.rpg.stackexchange.com/q/3204/4398) so answers should cite experience or other practical support of the concept.
> Please avoid untested speculation.
> Please [edit] in sources for your information.
> The Stack wants answers which connect all the dots, without leaving anything as an exercise for the reader.
 
 
3 hours later…
1:33 PM
I sure hope they fixed the action economy for Circle of Spores. The UA version was a little messy and imo a bit too strong with good teamwork.
 
@kviiri Just the essentials then
@DavidCoffron Such as? I always though circle of spores was a great idea thematically, never played with it though
I'm curious what made it too strong
 
@SirCinnamon issue with it was reaction for free to deal damage. And putting your spores out on the battlemap made it very easy for grapples and spellcasters to build up tons of damage.
 
@DavidCoffron 6 free damage as a reaction every round while "wild shaped" at level 2 is pretty strong
 
@SirCinnamon it's also the only reaction that doesn't have a trigger which just feels weird
 
it is poison which is iirc frequently resisted/immuned but still
@DavidCoffron Something like "when an ally you can see deals damage to a target..." would go a long way I think
 
1:40 PM
Wait, D&D 5e has a Ravnica setting?
 
You cant just put up a shield wall and slowly burn down a boss, or climb up in a tree and tick damage the ogre before he can give chase
@Zachiel as of a few weeks ago
 
I was willing to build up a Ravnica setting for 3.5e in, like, 2008
I think I statted that Boros angel, what's her name...
 
@SirCinnamon I thought that would limit it's power at first glance but what happens in practice is your spores and cantrips do work on non-poision-immune enemies and then you have all your spell slots for those that are immune. Unless your playing an entire campaign against constructs it's still very good
 
@DavidCoffron Exactly - unless you fight a group entirely composed of poison immune enemies, your action economy is really high
 
1:43 PM
@SirCinnamon semiconsistent reaction damage is what makes Polearm master good. (I still think it's a tad overrated though)
 
@DavidCoffron Anything that deals unavoidable damage is pretty strong
 
@SirCinnamon that's also a factor. It's like 1/3 a magic missle for free every round
 
@DavidCoffron But i think with a trigger or some tuned down damage, circle of spores could be really solid
 
@SirCinnamon agreed. And I'm actually glad they didn't do plant based combat wild shape like people though it was going to be. Firstly, there arent many plants and they are very confusing traits from a PC perspective (like what would gas spore do lol)
 
2:11 PM
@DavidCoffron AGreed on that feeling super weird. It just doesn't fit at all with how reactions are treated in literally every other case.
@DavidCoffron Though giving up your reaction isn't exactly free. You do give up OA if you do for example.
 
@Rubiksmoose I mean they were probably experimenting (that's what UA was for) but I hope they realized it didn't really add anything to the subclass. (At least this person put some feedback about the weirdness)
@Rubiksmoose as a non-moon druid, how often are you taking opportunity attacks?
 
@DavidCoffron That is very fair. Probably not that often, but it is a bit of a cost. Not arguing that it isn't worth it most of the time likely for them though.
 
@Rubiksmoose you also miss out on absorb elements (which I have used as a non-moon druid quite a bit before)
 
@DavidCoffron My current bard could use like 1,000 more reactions per turn lol
 
2:41 PM
@Rubiksmoose I feel that way about bonus actions and my clrics
 
@DavidCoffron Well maybe I could lend you some, my bard doesn't use them all that often. Only for inspiration, but I am much more inclined to use cutting words
 
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