TRPG General Chat

BESW

12:00 AM

@trogdor Well then, they successfully re-created the traditional 3.5 experience!

trogdor

You joke but it really feels like new 3.5

That's exactly what it is to me right now

It's technically different, but it's all bound together the same way

BESW

"Oh, you mean like Pathfinder."

trogdor

I am glad I am putting a campaign of it under my belt so I can say that with relative authority and most likely never play it again

@BESW no comment, I literally don't know

XD

Shalvenay

I still want to try running something like DW and see how it handles being pushed around, in the sense I do to things

trogdor

Now I'm imagining D&D and Pathfinder making endless new games that are actually all the same game

Until the society at the end of the world is convinced they are somehow different in a way that cannot be determined anymore

BESW

12:09 AM

I mean... apparently Paizo's Pathfinder 2e is basically 5e with the serial numbers filed off, just like Pathfinder was originally 3e with the serial numbers filed off.

trogdor

I still am having fun with the game, just to be completely clear, but I k ow I would be having a lot more fun if 5e actually knew what it wanted to be

I don't personally feel like it does XD

@BESW that is what I have heard

BESW

Which doesn't really sound like a good plan: Pathfinder blossomed during 4e when Wizards stopped making 3e content but people still wanted it.

trogdor

Yeah I think they just aren't thinking of why it was successful

BESW

Re-making the current D&D model isn't what got Paizo where it is today; they started by making bonus content for the current D&D model to build customer satisfaction, then offering their own product when the current D&D model got retired.

trogdor

That's a common mistake right before a sequel action that turns out to be a bad idea

To be fair, I came into 5e expecting not to like it much

But also to be more fair? I did that with 4e too

I fully expected to hate 4e at the start

BESW

12:13 AM

I expected 4e to be terrible, and I had hopes for 5e.

Expectations Reversed!

trogdor

I turned around on that because 4e murdered almost all the things I hated about 3.5

And knew exactly what it wanted to be

Which is mostly a crunchy mechanical combat game

@BESW indeed

I just point it out because I did expect to dislike the 5e system

And some might say that compromised my ability to evaluate it fairly

But I can literally point to how 4e was laboring under that exact same beginning

And how much I sing it's praises now

At least for what it is

I will admit readily that 4e has its own issues

The biggest issue being that considering 4e is best at combat,.... The fact that it takes 2 hours or so to finish a relatively simple battle is definitely a point against it

Shalvenay

1:13 AM

hey there @Pixie

Pixie

@trogdor Yeah... that being precisely what I don't want, it's a pretty big point against it for me. Tactical RPGs (video games, I mean) fill that niche in my life. But if it does that well, for the sake of people who want it, I can't really see it as a flaw.

@Shalvenay Hey.

trogdor

@Pixie I still see it as a flaw even though I like the system

There are other issues but they can be fixed more easily

Usually anyway

And yeah not everyone is looking for what 4e does, I get that too

Even my own regular gaming group doesn't do very much 4e

We had the one main campaign, my short Dark Sun failure, and now lastly my new points of light game that I only even ran Because we have some newer members who never tried 4e

I myself would not want to play mainly 4e

If nothing else it's a huge time sink that only scratches the one itch

It doesn't support the same collaborative story building or fail forward idea that other games have

Like Fate or Lady Blackbird

Mike Q

[broadcast wave]

trogdor

Hi

Sorry for the wall o text business

Just for reference of time, we had those 2 first games running around the time 4e came out for a year, and that last game just started this year and is cut into whenever we have something else the group is doing

So a large gap is between the two times and the current game we have is not our main deal right now anyway

That's all the 4e we can sustain

Pixie

1:28 AM

Ah, I see.

trogdor

It's not a meaty system for anything other than the one thing it does well

Pixie

My main group is mostly playing 5e right now, and I'm enjoying it, but I don't have much system mastery here and also doubt we've dug into it enough for me to encounter the issues you all have discussed, since I've really only done a handful of sessions.

We've tried Fate in a couple of different forms in the past, but it never got off the ground. I'm not sure why it doesn't seem to mesh with this group, but there were no obvious issues such that I wouldn't consider trying it again someday if I had a good reason to. It's not being stuck on D&D, either, because everyone I play with does a wide variety of games for a podcast one of the GM runs (I was a guest for Pigsmoke and Lasers and Feelings oneshots, heh).

Shalvenay

I'd like to try some more Fate with a group that knows the system well, especially before I try to run it again

trogdor

@Pixie not being stuck on D&D might be helping you in some regards really

Pixie

Yeah, that would help me too, I think.

BESW

1:38 AM

I find that Fate and similar phrasals don't work well with groups that don't share a lot of common inspirational sources and identify them clearly.

trogdor

I know the main reason I hate 3.5 now is because I was stuck believing it was the only game in tow for a long time

Shalvenay

@BESW yeah, that might be part of my issue with phrasal systems

the inspiration sources I draw on are...quite unconventional, for the most part

trogdor

So not only did I play a lot of it, but I saw the issues that it had that also gave me the most trouble pop up over and over again

Like class imbalance

Pixie

@BESW That might have been an issue for the second thing we tried, but the first was Spirit of the Century, which has that pretty baked in, and everyone was excited and on board. We didn't play it for long, though, and I wasn't GMing.

trogdor

I saw sooo many games where someone wanted to play a fighter or a sub optimal prestige class

And they always ended up sucking dust from the caster class

Or the grapple barbarian in one case

Not so much class there but still a problem with the system and it's rules

Pixie

1:43 AM

Mm. One big issue for me in general is I'm not super confident in my GMing, especially of systems I haven't played (which is most of them). Time is pretty scarce now, so if I do manage to get the group together for something, I'd kind of like it to be... a good time. And I can't guarantee that. And also, with no weight of "I know I can handle this system," the amount of systems we would like to try are... staggering. :v

trogdor

I have that issue too

Heck, I know 4e and I still feel like I droped the ball running this points of light campaign

Pixie

It happens. I do think it's important to remember that GMing anything takes time to get better at, and from the player side it's often not that bad (or even if it is, if you're playing with friends with decent communication like I am, they're going to have some understanding).

trogdor

Specifically, one person doesn't seem to enjoy it as much as everyone else, and I feel like I specifically failed to show her the good stuff about the system

Pixie

I really find myself wishing more Japanese RPs would be translated, though. I've done some research, and it turns out a lot of them are very much like Maid -- fairly light 2d6-based mechanics with a lot of roll or choose tables and a setup that's very, very geared to oneshots because most players in Japan just don't have time to meet up for an evening every single week and advance a game. If any of them are even half as easy to pick up as Maid...

2

trogdor

I didn't bring in a single challenge section yet, which is pretty much the only cool non-combat mechanic is i
n 4e

@Pixie have you ever tried Golden Sky Stories?

Pixie

1:49 AM

@trogdor No, but I own it and would like to.

trogdor

We had one session of that and we enjoyed it

Pixie

It's by Maid's author.

trogdor

Yes

It is, thankfully a different theme

But anyway, I ran a premade story for it and my Players were like psychics

They ran into the story elements before I could introduce them XD

It was really fun to run that

Pixie

Heh, yes. Maid has a lot of utility outside the idea of maids, really, but the authority-subordinate structure is the intrinsic one. I'd like to try the hacks the translator did, especially Retail Magic (instead of maids and master, it's employees and manager in a Generic Silly Fantasy Land).

trogdor

And apparently according to them it was fun to play

Pixie

1:52 AM

That does sound like a lot of fun.

trogdor

If you run it yourself I recommend the story where you only have to play a kitsune who became a sort of hermit

The story is basically about the players showing her what having friends is like again

Pixie

Aww, that sounds sweet.

trogdor

And it was a very easy first session to run

@Pixie it's more or less the whole point of GSS I think

XD

Pixie

Hehe, yes, that's true.

trogdor

To have a really heart warming type of story where you fix a relatively simple social problem

Maybe the "simple" part isn't in there but for that first game it was sort of simple

Pixie

1:58 AM

I'd also like to try Ryuutama sometime. There's a lot going on there I like the sound of.

And... sob... I wish Meikyuu Kingdom's translation would actually happen. At this point I'm fairly sure it's a dead project.

Shalvenay

I wonder if I could ask a meaningful question here about "how do I not have impedance-mismatch problems in phrasal games when my inspiration sources are well-removed from most folks?", or would that either a) just tell me to change my inspiration sources or b) not be a good question to begin with?

trogdor

@Pixie dragon people for the win

BESW

I think a major obstacle would be that you've invented or re-defined a lot of terms to describe your situation.

Shalvenay

@BESW yeah, is there even a standard vocabulary for the sorts of problems I'm having?

BESW

Probably not specifically; I'd guess there's psychosocial terminology that'd be potentially useful but unfamiliar to RPG crowds.

Shalvenay

2:04 AM

@BESW because my understanding is I was grabbing terms that seemed to fit to me because they were the words I had on hand, basically :)

BESW

Yeah. You wound up using a lot of engineering terms of art as if they were RPG terms of art, which is... confusing at best, because you're often not even using the common everyday engineering definitions, but something very niche.

trogdor

Yeah I don't know how to address that issue

Shalvenay

@BESW yeah -- there's a tendency in some programming circles to apply terminology from human-to-computer interactions to human-to-human interactions

trogdor

Other than that most people probably won't know all the terms you use

It's like if I tried to talk to my parents using phrases or words I learned,... From Rpgs or video games

They not only wouldn't understand but also wouldn't be interested, generally

The takeaway being that I can't force them to know or like that stuff, so instead I talk with them about actual common subjects

That's what we need to do with literally everyone we interact with to some extent

nitsua60

Apropos of nothing: I haven't been able to find my good earphone for a few days. ("Good"="stay in my ears while running and don't bug my ear-flaps and don't fray after a month's running.") And I'm attached enough to them that I even re-worked my schedule for the week to push back a run in the hopes I'd find the headphones.
No such luck. So I broke down and grabbed a pair of earbuds at the local hardware store and set out for my (belated) run this morning.
And found my good headphones.
In my running shoes.

\o/ + =\

Pixie

2:28 AM

@nitsua60 ... oh no. Relatable, though.

My cat decided last night that she wanted to try to eat the cord of my favorite headphones. She's never done it before in all the time I've been leaving them on my bed... but now I must be careful.

nitsua60

@Pixie You know, of the dozen or so cats I've had in my life, none have been cord-chewers. Thankfully.

Shalvenay

@Pixie yeah, I've lost headsets to cord-chewing :/

Pixie

@nitsua60 She does like string (and sticks even more than string), and she was in a Mood.

@Shalvenay Oh no.

We have a dog that delights in eating plastic and knows full well that she shouldn't have it (so if you see her with it, she immediately goes into angry defense mode). She started to eat vacuum cords.

Shalvenay

@Pixie zoinks

did she ever try a live vacuum cord?

Pixie

@Shalvenay Thankfully, no. She is a bit large. :v

trogdor

2:40 AM

@nitsua60 ugh,... I hate ear plugs

nitsua60

@trogdor Me too, but I hate them less than I hate running. And less than I hate being overweight. So I'm learning to live with them =)

trogdor

Just sticking a thing in my ears is so uncomfortable

@nitsua60 lol

nitsua60

(And I like more things-I-subscribe-to-listening-to than I really have time to be at my desk or in the car. Especially since my commute's a walk.)

My theory is that most humans have been colonized with alien mind-control slugs that hold the earbuds for them, and the ones who can't wear earbuds are the only surviving free ones.

trogdor

@nitsua60 so far my two cats don't chew cords

@nitsua60 they stay in my ears, but I never forget they are in there

And I never stop hating it

I would rather run with headphones on if I were to use a device to keep myself occupied like that while doing it

And I really should exercise more

nitsua60

2:55 AM

@trogdor I reward/punish/motivate myself by saving the weekly podcast I look forward to for my long run of the week.

trogdor

@nitsua60 I don't know if I can do that specific type of motivation

None of my media is both exciting and regular

nitsua60

@trogdor Ah, then can I suggest you take a look at my profile? Maybe you'll find something you like =)

trogdor

Seems like a fair suggestion

nitsua60

Or you'll discover you actually can't stand me or anything I think. Either way, my work here is done!

=D

trogdor

Lol

If I were to discover only today that I didn't like you then I feel like that would be more my fault than yours

nitsua60

3:06 AM

@trogdor I ~~discovered~~ realized today that on at least one personality axis I act very differently online than in person: agreeableness. I realized I'm much more confrontational in person (my true nature, to my thinking) than online (where I'm much more hesitant to ruffle feathers). I don't know what to think about that.

trogdor

@nitsua60 huh, I am far more likely to engage in conversation at all online, with new people especially

Offline others must make the first move and prove I have a reason to engage in conversation

Otherwise I walk away or ignore them

Here I latch onto a huge chunk of the conversations I am awake for

Miniman

One thing I've noticed is that online I'm far more likely to randomly insert myself into an ongoing conversation as if I'd been there the whole time.

Shalvenay

@Miniman chat history?

Miniman

@Shalvenay Huh?

Shalvenay

@Miniman as a reason why you'd be more likely to insert yourself

trogdor

3:11 AM

@Miniman lol

nitsua60

@Miniman touche

trogdor

@nitsua60 I would hazard a guess that if we met offline instead of here we would either have had a bad first impression or barely any impression at all

Pixie

@nitsua60 This is... so relatable.

nitsua60

@trogdor Well, I'm told that on the last job interview I undertook I didn't make a great impression. And a year before that I was leading a school trip to England and was offered a job unasked-for. Splitting the difference tells me... nothing. Tells me nothing.

trogdor

Lol

nitsua60

3:15 AM

@Miniman I just had a mental image of you piping up during the conversation/gaggle that tends to go on at my kids' bus stop in the afternoon. Having been there all the time. My response: "wow, you've been here the whole time?"

Pixie

I'm... way, way, way more outgoing online than IRL for a number of reasons. Probably also the opposite, a bit more confrontational if I need to be (though I still really dislike conflict).

trogdor

I can definitely pinpoint one reason I like talking in chat more than in punch/meat space

I can take my time to say what I want, no one can get mad at me for sitting here for 10 minutes before saying something, and no one can technically interrupt me

You can say a thing before me but my message will still pop up

nitsua60

@trogdor It's almost worth my diamond to edit an interruption into that message XD

trogdor

I guess that's kinda more than one reason

@nitsua60 try it ~~punk~~ o benevolent overlord :p

@nitsua60 that's it, I'm sending you a strongly worded basket of muffins

nitsua60

I'm going to tell the manufacturer that their business practices are ADMIRABLE and ETHICAL and their developers are ATTRACTIVE and I'm going to report them to the FCC for their IMPECCABLE VIRTUE.

trogdor

3:25 AM

Lol

@nitsua60 that's not really what I mean by an interruption, though I suppose technically if a mod were to harass me by literally editing all the stuff I say it would be worse than just interrupting me

But my point was, taking my time to say something IRL kinda lends itself to either not getting heard or annoying the person who is waiting for a response from me

nitsua60

Alright, having harassed a chatizen, derailed conversation, and spammed XKCD, I'm off for the night. Be well, everyone!

trogdor

Here I can say something 30 minutes later and just specifically respond to what was said before

@nitsua60 good riddance you churl! :P

Night

To be fair also,... For some reason I find myself more willing and able to respond quickly with jokes or puns here

That happens a lookout less offline

Pixie

@trogdor I feel that so much, heh. It takes me time to put my thoughts together, and beyond that, brain to fingers is a lot faster than brain to mouth for me. And I frequently feel like I'm not great at judging where the spaces are in conversations IRL, although I try.

trogdor

I have no idea why that is

Pixie

I'm maybe at a bit of a disadvantage because of my narcolepsy -- I'm always sleep-deprived, which has a significant effect on motor skills.

trogdor

3:33 AM

@Pixie same here yeah

@Pixie does that also mean you wake up before you should, not just that you fall asleep when you don't mean to?

Sorry if that's too much to ask about

Pixie

@trogdor Nah, it's fine, I'm happy to talk about it. Insomnia is actually a very common part of narcolepsy, so I have a constant increased level of tiredness even if I do get a good night's sleep, but I rarely do.

trogdor

Ok

That's a strange combination

But I guess in a way it makes sense

Pixie

Yeah, it surprises a lot of people, heh. I joke that I'm only able to sleep when I'm not supposed to, but... it's true. :,v

PhiNotPi

Earlier today I was in here asking about ways to improve D&D 5e's hunger mechanic. I got together with one of my players to iron out a new mechanic that we think will work well for a wilderness survival challenge. I can explain our system if there's interest.

Pixie

Sure. I'm refining the way I want to handle stuff like that in my solo hex crawl right now, although I'm pretty loose and fast with it so it's likely not compatible, heh. But I'd be interested to hear how you're doing it.

PhiNotPi

3:52 AM

I wrote up a more polished explanation for my group, but in summary what we've done is say that food value and energy expenditure are measured in "Units", basically a way to count calories but more discrete. A character also has a "calorie deficit", initially set to 0, which measures the cumulative amount of energy spent vs food eaten. Eating excess food = decreasing deficit back down to 0, not eating enough food = increasing it.

A normal-sized character can eat up to 4 units of food in a day, while a day of normal activity expends 3 units, but a day of light activity only expends 2 units. These numbers are just updated at the end of each day.

PS I should mention that this is a pretty "hardcore" survival... normally it's not worth going into this much detail.

To go from calorie deficit to exhaustion level, subtract your constitution mod, then divide by 8 rounding down.

Pixie

Yeah, I understand. If it's the entire point of your game, it makes sense to spend more time on it.

PhiNotPi

If you do the math, this means that a player doing nothing but staying hydrated can survive for at least 24 days or so before dying, which is realistic. Also, exhaustion levels are tacked on gradually (spaced 3 or 4 days apart), instead of all 6 levels in the last 6 days of life.

For a small creature, it can eat up to 3 units, but spends 2 for normal activity and 1 for light activity. Also the division is by 4 instead of 8. This means that a small creature can survive just as long before dying for low activity, but is much quicker to die from high activity because it has a lower body fat amount.

So it's really as realistic as possible (taking into account creature size and activity, and having a realistic increase in exhaustion, while also allowing high-cons characters to go with a little less food), while still boiling food down to relatively simple "units".

Pixie

Nice. I hope it works out for you and your group.

trogdor

4:26 AM

@PhiNotPi I would definitely consider this if I didn't already have my hands extremely full with normal 5e mechanics

We are in the perfect setting for it but,... Yeah it's to much extra to keep track of XD

For me at least anyway

SmokeDetector

4:54 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Url in title, bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, blacklisted website in title: mumybear.com/keto-burn/ by user45729 on rpg.SE (@doppelgreener)

kviiri

7:32 AM

@PhiNotPi What other mechanics do you have in place for your survival campaign?

Ben

7:45 AM

Evening all

Has anyone ever run a Castlevania campaign?

Miniman

8:35 AM

@Ben Are you talking about the setting, or the gameplay? Which elements of Castlevania?

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with email in answer, email in answer, messaging number in answer, pattern-matching email in answer: What is the monetary worth of a captured spellbook? by Lauren on rpg.SE (@doppelgreener)

Ben

@Miniman The setting

Miniman

@Ben I'm not super familiar with Castlevanaia - how does it differ from generic gothic horror?

Ben

@Miniman I daresay it doesn't really. Just lots of demonic-style creatures.

Miniman

So Ravenloft, but allowing you to use lots of interesting monsters on top of the usual zombies/werewolves/vampires?

Ben

8:39 AM

You lost me at "Ravenloft"

Haha

Miniman

Basically Dracula-style D&D setting.

Ben

Nice

In that case I'd say that's the ticket

Miniman

Curse of Strahd is a 5e version of the classic Ravenloft adventure, as I understand it.

Ben

I've just been watching Castlevania on Netflix (again).

Miniman

Is it any good?

Ben

8:41 AM

Oh it is very good. The only downfall is that it's only 4 episodes.

Season 2 is going to be longer though

Miniman

Huh, I'll have to give it a go.

Ben

Very brutal too.

If that's not your thing

Game of Thrones level. But it's not the main focus. Just when there is violence, it's brutal

Miniman

I'm fine with that.

Ben

In that case, I definitely recommend a watch :)

That's my issue with coming up with these games... I don't exactly have the frame of mind for world building. I'm amazed by those that do all that, and do it well, because it certainly makes for a great game.

And then I get distracted with other things in life, and I lose track of the work I have done. Hence why I'm still going with my Diablo campaign haha

Derpy

just remember to add some roasted chicken inside the walls of your dungeon

> "I check for secret doors"
roll dice
"You just found a roasted chicken inside a nearby wall"

4

doppelgreener

8:56 AM

Wall chicken is very important

Ben

@Derpy Yes.

trogdor

@doppelgreener extremely important

most important

best important?

doppelgreener

Chandelier chicken is also very important

Most wealthy aristocratic vampires store their chicken in a chandelier

trogdor

wallchicken though

Ben

"I eat the chicken"
"Ok, you gain the 'poisoned' condition"
"What? Why??"
"You found a chicken in the wall... and then you ate it"

doppelgreener

8:59 AM

Hmmmmmmmm

But .... it's chicken....??

Secespitus

@Ben Totally worth it

Ben

I just remember seeing a "Realistic video games" thing on yuotube once... and that was one of them.

Except it was one of those side-scrolling fighting games, and they got it out of the bin.

kviiri

9:30 AM

I went over my shareware collection and found "Lateblight", a "Plant disease management game" from Cornell University

From 1990

trogdor

@doppelgreener wall salmenela

BESW

Wallmonella?

trogdor

Yes

Derpy

didn't Castlevania Legends claim that the Belmont family had a pact with some otherworldly entity/imp/whatever that would magically put items in candles and walls for them to find?

trogdor

9:50 AM

No idea

kviiri

Castlevania is one of those series I've completely missed

Do they still make those?

doppelgreener

Yes

Derpy

@doppelgreener make that "Yope".

or Nes

Vahn

any roleplayer in Indonesia?

doppelgreener

The most recent one was 2014, and one of the original creators is producing a spiritual successor called Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night which is looking very promising.

Otherwise there have been several other games recently in the Metroidvania genre, like Hollow Knight.

@Vahn There might be one here, but also we've got a question about how to find other players in case you'd like to use its advice to find other Indonesian roleplayers: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/1232/…

Derpy

10:17 AM

@doppelgreener Still better than 9.

doppelgreener

@Derpy mighty no. 9?

Derpy

10:35 AM

> "And at the end of the day, even if it's not perfect, it's better than nothing. At least, that's my opinion." – said Keiji Inafune at his Mighty No.9 pre-release live-stream. Since the game (which was made as a spiritual successor of Megaman) got mediocre review and fans were disappointed with both the game and the disastrous launch, saying "it's better than nothing" was a really outrageous.
Though, later it turned out to be a misunderstanding. It was actually Ben Judd's additional comment who translated Inafune's words and added his own thoughts afterwards.

and yep, the last line is true too.

Congrats on the launch, @MightyNo9! It's better than nothing.

Tweeted by sonic_hedgehog on June 21, 2016 at 5:42 PM

(not that Sega really should be mocking other software houses in the first place.... they are the ones who publishes sonic 06)

kviiri

A few years ago, North Korea rushed a missile test for Kim Il Sung's birthday. It failed. Interesting how all kinds of launches seem to go wrong when rushed for spiritual leader's birthday celebrations, eh?

trogdor

10:50 AM

Lol

Also spiritual leader?

I guess he was and is that

Sorta

kviiri

Kim Il Sung? Yeah, he's revered like a saint in North Korea.

trogdor

I understand that

But I always just thought of him as a guy who pulled off a cu

However you spell that

doppelgreener

@Derpy it was definitely not better than nothing. in fact, nothing at all would have been better than mighty no. 9.

trogdor

@doppelgreener ah so it wasn't the one that had a commercial brutally insulting people who watch anime

doppelgreener

star wars episode I was better than mighty no 9.

trogdor

10:54 AM

@doppelgreener was that the one with the offensive commercial?

eimyr

@doppelgreener no problemo

doppelgreener

@trogdor mighty no 9 was just bad and broken and terrible and disappointing and barely playable

it made a campaign based off "we're doing a successor of megaman!" and raised $3.8 million and the game is a complete failure and the biggest question is where on earth that money went given the product they made is worse than most games made with less than 10% of that money.

trogdor

Whoops I edited that first question

doppelgreener

I Kickstarted This │ Mighty No. 9 #1 | ProJared Plays

►

eimyr

@doppelgreener Feature creep and project bloat?

kviiri

10:57 AM

@trogdor A coup? Yea, he was a socialist revolutionary, but later on (and posthumously) he became increasingly mythologized as a superhuman hero

doppelgreener

@eimyr there's not even feature creep! they really just delivered a fairly basic megaman game.

kviiri

And his heirs afterwards, too

trogdor

@kviiri true yeah

doppelgreener

it's just, completely unfinished and unpolished and undertested... and it has some kind of performance issue that will lag and degrade your system over the course of gameplay. That review is 20 minutes long because at the end of 20 minutes his system was lagging hard and he had to stop the game and reboot.

(meaning, the game lags and degrades to borderline unplayable amounts of lag within 20 minutes.)

@trogdor oh, i don't know about that commercial actually. let me check

oh. yes. yes it was. that was the one.

trogdor

@doppelgreener I remember a comercial for a Megaman or Megaman like one that was,... insulting to some groups of people

Sdjz

11:01 AM

@doppelgreener this question is now suffering from help piling I think. (I know I'm contributing to it too). Can/should we do anything about it?

eimyr

@doppelgreener So it's not like No man's Sky, which is a perfectly acceptable indie game with a nice gimmick, but a terrible AA game that has eaten through the budget on stuff like graphic updates, stretch goals and unfulfillable promises?

Derpy

I don't know about the commercial.
But it was: kickstarted by showing drawn cell shaded graphics (Think: Vanillaware) and then released with ugly 2.5d graph, had multiple delays (with lies about them - IE people discovered some of the delays from AMAZON while the company continued to say all was fine), horrible animations (spoken dialogues, no mouth movements for example), cut content, deliberate misleading rewards (example: the physical edition was just the cardboard box with no disk included - and the manual didn't even FIT THE BOX).

trogdor

I specifically remember it insulting,... apparently everyone who has ever watched anime

doppelgreener

"I sure hope this game doesn’t suck." -- the last line of that article. Whoops.

@Sdjz thanks, I've trimmed some comments. Might amalgamate to post one.

Derpy

and.... after THREE delays and multiple lies about them... what did they do? Instead on focusing on trying to FINISH THE GAME and release it... they actually open a second kickstarter for Red Ash, which was supposed to be the Megaman Legend spiritual copy.

doppelgreener

11:03 AM

@trogdor yep, see that kotaku link i posted :)

Derpy

trogdor

@doppelgreener just,.... why would you burn a bridge of any kind during a comercial?

especially one that probably has a significant crossover with your target audience?

Derpy

@trogdor see above image.

doppelgreener

@trogdor man, no. 9 did just everything wrong. it was just bad. the team behind it is incompetent, so they produced an incompetent commercial. i can't imagine why an anime game would burn people who like anime either.

Derpy

The old "if you buy this you will be cooler than the average bear" thing.

trogdor

11:06 AM

@doppelgreener yeaaaaahhhh

what did they think they were making exactly?

Derpy

it did something good though. It is probably what made Capcom realize "if they could sell that, maybe Megaman 11 would sell too?"

and that could also mean that if MM11 sells well enough they may be as smart as to restore MML3

trogdor

@doppelgreener yep there you go that is the exact one

doppelgreener

@Derpy yeah that part's awesome. here's hoping for M11. \o/

trogdor

who could have guessed the game could possibly be bad after they couldn't even bother to market it well?

doppelgreener

@trogdor that youtube video link i posted earlier is from ProJared, who backed the game, believed in it, wants it to be good... and he still keeps saying during the review stuff like "where did the money go?". He wants to defend it (he says it's not the worst game ever... which is true, but it's still an awful game) but he's got nothing positive to say about it and is flabbergasted by its awfulness.

trogdor

11:11 AM

I almost don't want to watch a man be destroyed like that

almost

doppelgreener

he's not destroyed by it, just stumped

and disappointed

and occasionally frustrated or amazed by how dumb the game is

picture BESW reading Ki Khanga

trogdor

mk

BESW

Aside from Golden Sky Stories, what are some real feel-good RPGs, the sort of thing where everybody cooperates to tell a heartwarming story with no sharp pointy objects involved in the denoument?

4

trogdor

@doppelgreener ok,... you didn't see his face though

@BESW I was going to say Penny for my Thoughts but,... that has like recounting of tramatic or scary stuff right?

doppelgreener

I'm editing that to expand the acronym because I'm starring that and people will ask

BESW

11:13 AM

@trogdor Yeah.

InSpectres could do it, if the party wants.

trogdor

mm

could do it counts?

BESW

If it'd be easy and obvious and satisfying, without feeling like you're cutting out part of the game, I think so.

So, like, Fate Core/Accelerated doesn't quite count because it starts out with built-in assumptions that pointy object will be a mode of competency for at least some of the characters.

doppelgreener

Bubblegumshoe and Fate can produce fulfilling wholesome stories without violence, but they also expect a lot of drama along the way, so they're not consistent feel-good generation. Masks can produce similar but involves some level of combat.

BESW

But Accelerated is closer to counting because it doesn't have Shoot and Fight and a physical stress track.

Derpy

@trogdor Evolution of AlphaOmegaSin: Announcement - Happiness - and the inevitable results 1, 2 and 3

BESW

11:18 AM

Also quick-to-pick-up one-shot play would be preferable.

doppelgreener

@BESW I'm A Pretty Princess?

kviiri

Hey, a propos Mighty no. 9, has anyone played that Megaman 2.5D game? Is it worth my time?

BESW

[puts on list]

trogdor

@doppelgreener ah yep seems like

Anaphory

@BESW Do: Pilgrims?

Secespitus

11:21 AM

@BESW Cats of Catthulhu (okay, not necessarily heart-warming and there could be claws, but... cats!)

Anaphory

(Which I still haven't played)

BESW

Do:PoFT is pretty perfect.

Anaphory

Dialect and Sign, by Thorny Games

Dreamchaser would qualify (unless you take a violent goal), but I didn't like it very much.

Dialect feels less heartwarming from the tagline – “A game about language and how it dies” – but from reading it (not played it yet either) that seems to be only the very last bit, so it might be heartwarming still.

Derpy

@kviiri which one?

kviiri

@Derpy petersjostrand.com

Mega Man 2.5D - Trailer (Concept)

►

Anaphory

11:30 AM

@BESW A few role playing game poems might qualify, I could go hunting.

kviiri

That old concept trailer looks really interesting at least!

BESW

Context: some friends recently got married and are looking for things to have available to do with guests at their new house. They're thinking about board games, and they asked me about tabletop games too.

But these aren't Cards Against Humanity sort of people.

Anaphory

@BESW That sounds like a yes.

BESW

A little competition would be okay, but nothing really cutthroat or aggressive.

For board games, I'm going to suggest Tokaido.

trogdor

ooooh Tokaido

I would love to try that one

@doppelgreener so yeah,... that boss fight near the end?,..... not screaming "fast paced Megaman boss" to me XD

Miniman

11:40 AM

@trogdor I think you'd like it a lot.

trogdor

have you played it?

Miniman

Yeah, a few times.

trogdor

I saw it on Geek and Sundry, and it looks pretty fun

tactical vacation choices for the win

XD

Sir Cinnamon

1:33 PM

@BESW Maybe I'm late but - Pandemic: Legacy Season 1 and Eldritch Horror fill exactly that niche for a couble I know

Also A harry potter game I can't recall the name of

kviiri

I've yet to try Eldritch Horror. I've played a lot of Arkham Horror though

I have this love-hate relationship with Arkham Horror except without the love.

Sir Cinnamon

@kviiri Me and my friends tried arkham horror a few times and frequently gave up when we found we were playing fully wrong a good 4 hours in

Sdjz

@kviiri The problem I have with Arkham is that it feels easier as the game progresses and portals get sealed

Sir Cinnamon

but (and this is why i recommended the game to the couple in the first place) Eldritch horror allegedly addresses the failings and overcomplications of arkham horror. I have never played it but that seems to be true from what ive heard from them.

kviiri

I have a few issues with Arkham Horror. One is that I'm usually the "rules master" of the group, and in the case of Arkham Horror, that requires frequent FAQ poring, or as I like to call it, FAQ boring.

For contrast, Pandemic has very well-written rules (the original - not sure about Legacy)

SmokeDetector

1:43 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in answer: RPG system based on Diablo? by yomen on rpg.SE (@doppelgreener)

kviiri

@Sdjz This is also true

I also dislike how the game is so stingy with the fun... if one combats monsters, they won't get an encounter. That bugs me :(

Sir Cinnamon

@kviiri yep! So many rules

Sdjz

@kviiri iirc this is not the case with Eldritch

kviiri

@Sdjz That's a relief

I also dislike the "Endgame" where you get to fight the monster (except Azathoth)

Sdjz

@kviiri Monsters are so unimportant in Eldritch that it doesn't really matter

kviiri

1:48 PM

It's a thoroughly unsatisfying game of "roll well and win", which is also rather... unsuited considering the supposed power these horrors should be wielding

A Very Large Bear

@kviiri I haven't played Arkham Horror, but I have played a bit of Eldritch, and I quite liked it. Very atmospheric and pretty interesting gameplay.

There are a few moments of despair, but there are also some pretty cool moments of feeling really kickbutt. Its one of my favorite cooperative games.

kviiri

Pandemic is great fun, but it requires a group of roughly equally good players

Usually our games go roughly like this: we start out well, keep the disease in control, and then realize we only have two rounds to go until we lose due to deck expiry.

And then we come up with some super complicated and hyperoptimized scheme that wins the game exploiting every mechanic in existence

It's my favorite part of the game

Transcript for