If the PC is truly returned to full life, I'm not sure of any situation where the caster has control over them (unless there's a riding effect, like the Necromancer has the Necrotic Cyst spells and planted one in the PC at the same time).
@Ben Basically, if they're brought back alive, they'll probably be in control. If they're brought back undead, the necromancer will probably be in control. There are exceptions to both.
If the PC is some sort of undead, then it's very likely the PC is under the Necromancer's control--but not guaranteed. And the Necromancer probably has abilities to gain control over undead, too, so the raising spell isn't the only tool they have for that.
Actually, now I've got an idea for a healing cleric who goes bad and starts planting controlling infections in the corpses he resurrects.
@mxyzplk Mm, I was thinking the organisation structure that d20pfsrd had chosen seemed to change the meaning of where that paragraph on moving quickly to hide applied. I'll trust you on this though.
> I've got the guns right here. You can make attacks with Shoot when unarmed. Doing so counts as a mental attack. Also, you can use Physique in place of Rapport to Create Advantage or Overcome.
> The Air makes me stronger! While in Oxygen-Rich environments, you gain a +2 advantage on Fight and Physique rolls, though any visual or audible attack against you is made with the same advantage.
You told the drunks I knew karate. Spend a Fate point to use Deceive in place of any one skill you don't have, until the end of the scene or until you fail by 3 or more.
@doppelgreener We've actually been carting around a tied up Death Knight (who had attacked us, summoning demons and all, trying to drag our Abyssal back into forced Evil Bad Guy service) for in-game days now trying to figure out what to do with him. Just have him riding around on our Simhata.
@BESW Heh, my Exalted character actually has something like this, except she can use any type of nonverbal communication to make complex ideas understood as if she had spoken them. She's a dancer, but it also comes in handy when she's in an animal form.
@Sandwich Well. Stunts should describe your own character, and justify why they have that stunt. Imperial stormtrooper marksmanship academy doesn't say much about why you could dodge vs shoot, sounds like that's making fun of your enemies, but sometimes they will be bounty hunters.
Aspects in Fate Core also start with "Because I am (one of your character's aspects), ..." to justify how and why you can do that thing. In Atomic Robo that part gets skipped, or is shared as part of the name, but it's still useful to think of how/why.
One of the players in my PF group is annoyed by some historically/culturally inaccurate stuff in the armor, but every time they complain, they then immediately placate themselves by thinking of their character's horse, which they have named Mole. xD
Pathfinder's weaknesses: accurate arms and armor. Pathfinder's strengths: horse.
> GM: Walking's an option. A slower option, granted. I just wanted to re-solidify the storied horse canon. Player: o thank goodness Me: (the horses are important background characters who will eventually get a spinoff series)
@BESW That is an improvement. His eyes have received a downgrade. I blame the guy in the sunglasses, who probably stole his eyes for science and replaced them with worse ones he had lying around.
One reason D&D is so commonly used as inspiration for CRPGs is that it often tries to act like the GM is merely an agent of the system rather than treating the system as a tool for the group to use.
(@Shalvenay Well, not confusing every time, but most times, if you were replying directly to comments at times like this things would be immediately loads clearer.)
@doppelgreener should I make a meta thread about this deficiency in chat? because it's a choice between typing at conversation-speed and having to look up and figure out which message to reply to, then reply to it
@Shalv Chat hasn't seen an update in years, so it won't do much yet. But yeah, you should be looking at which message to reply to, and using the tools to indicate to people seeing your messages what you're replying to.
Yes. (Also you don't have to respond to messages directly every time, like how I'm not doing it now, but if you're joining in on a conversation and leaving comments on multiple different things.... it helps. A lot.)
@Shalvenay It's also worth pointing out that we see a lot of people in this chat, and as as I can recall you're the only one who habitually replies to messages without using the reply functionality. It's really not that much of an inconvenience.
@Shalv If you're replying right after a comment you don't exactly need to use the direct comment reply. It's clear enough. It's less clear when it's been stretching on for a bit. I probably overreacted this time. But it's a thing you've done a lot in the past.
If other people don't badger you about it, that doesn't mean there isn't an issue there.
@Shalvenay Yup, if there's only a couple people, or the conversation has a lot of pauses, or there's only one narrow topic, general replies are less confusing.
@Nyoze I didn't really notice it until people started badgering me about it, really. it's not at all obvious how the threading works in this chat, especially if you come from IRC-ville where such things are nonexistent
like, near as I can tell, ogl/srd, you can use mostly freely, and you accept and put your work (or portions of it) under ogl, by using ogl content, such as the srd. and you cannot use any reference to 'dnd' or d20 or any of their protected identity
So in a 5e campaign I'm running, the party Druid has recently been doing some scouting of the local monster caves in spider form to avoid notice. I've also described how the goblins and kobolds who live in these caves use a variety of tunnels too small for Medium sized creatures in order to get a...
and d20, means you use some ogl, if you want, but you must use certain wording legally, and can reference certain specific protected identity content and you have to use '5%' ogl and then you can put the d20 logo on, a bunch of copyright notices and this is the break down, you dont need permission or to pay royalties
so, you can make dnd content, that is compatible with 3.5e, and it can reference the players handbook, and the dmg (but only by abbreviation) and use mechanics, except character creation and applying experience....
Get yourself a partner and have them sell your wildshaped form, only to escape at the earliest convenience and move on to the next sucker, over and over...
@Shalvenay Nah, wizard polymorphed into a pig is absolutely 0 threat to the party barbarian. The only reason he wasn't successful in eating me was because he was super drunk, so I managed to escape.
@Storyteller Yeah, Wizards let a cat out of the bag with the OGL and established a cultural assumption about community ownership of D&D that they've been trying to walk back ever since.
and guys are 'compatible with 5e' and using str con dex etc, and 5e combat terms (weakness, abilities etc, the 5e combat information box) and its like... why am I following the rules? that guy isnt, he is at least making a few bucks
i guess because Im gulp lawful
anyway, its a dystopian rabbit hole. Im enjoying making sense of it.
@Storyteller IMO -- the whole copyright system has fallen off the rails into a dystopian rabbit hole. considering that its genesis lies in "promoting the progress of science and the useful arts" -- any change to copyright that detracts from that should get tossed out on its ear, but nooooo...
id need the journal entry for thosecases to say one way or the other
well, today was interesting. even a simple ogl/3.5 adventure has to be written carefully, mostly because if I do it well and follow the rules well, it goes a long way to working something out to wirk with 5e
WotC/Hasbro will eventually get some 3rd party products that are licensed/official. its a matter f time. Id like to be one of them
tomorrow, maps, general description, adventure event list, more legal reading
@Storyteller What kind of product are you looking to write? Adventures, or supplemental material? (Classes, races, archetypes, spells, monsters and so on.)
Reading this gaming industry retrospective I ran into a few phrases which confused me.
The d20 bust caused by 3.5e (2003) and the over-saturation of d20 products ran right into the Great Recession.
What's "the d20 bust"? I came into RPGs shortly after 3.5's release, so I can't compare befor...
yeah, that says that you cannot get a d20 trademark license
that it was discontinued
but.. I downloaded the agreement today
and its been 'revised', its safer to say, they didnt use it for further products, but it still exists and what Im reading says you can use it... if you comply
its like, d20(the system and the trademark license) is still there, but wotc just stopped using it for 4e/5e... but Im not seeing anything that says you cant
in fact, the bottom of the text reads:
You don't have to ask anyone for permission.
You don't have to submit any content for approval.
Brisbane's seasons are... hot but not yet humid, hot and very very humid, hot and enormous storm season, hot and not so many storms anymore, reasonable temperatures in which we aren't sweating constantly for a few months, then about a month-ish of it actually dipping below 20 degrees and all of us freezing.
@Miniman There's a street here called George Street that runs between Roma Street bus station and the Botanical Gardens / Queensland University of Technology, and it turns into a wind tunnel on a windy day.
@Nyoze Brisbane summers can hover at 25 degrees and get very uncomfortable from sheer humidity. And then they'll peak toward 30-ish degrees, and we'll get heat waves in which it goes up to 35 or 40 degrees (the latter's rare). All of this at 100% humidity. And then Melbourne's average mid-summer day hits 40 or more degrees at dry heat and it's brilliantly pleasant to stroll around in.
@Miniman I had a similar situation once actually, our group borrowed some horses to travel to the next town, on orders from the town's guard, and when we got back to our horses after doing our thing, my horse was missing. Turns out it was the Druid scout we had befriended a few sessions beforehand and was sent to keep an eye on us.
so, more research... seems there was an informal interview, and a WotC employee said 'd20STL will be terminated', but no has ever gotten a termination notice and the material is still available
this is quite fascinating, some people are taking this as gospel and crying d20 is dead, but people are still make 3.5 products
with ogl/srd, there is still plenty of material to work with to make an adventure module you could play... might need to be careful in a few passages, but for any experienced player thats not a problem
that said, what d20stl really offers, is about two dozen terms and phrases that make writing content far easier, the ability to reference DnD core books and the ability to say 'compatible with DnD' on them
now what gets me, is with no actual GSL for 5e available, people are advertising kickstarter campaigns openly on the wizards forum
this... is fascinating
anyway, more focus on content.. obviously people are making game books, for everything from 3/3.5 to 5e and many other systems
i am sure I can edit later to suit what is needed after I get the content 'done'
@Miniman ... Forcibly shapechange an illithid or intellect devourer into a donkey. Sell it to unwitting valuable targets as a pack animal. Wait until they fall asleep and let the spell end.
> Body Thief. The intellect devourer initiates an Intelligence contest with an incapacitated humanoid within 5 feet of it. If it wins the contest, (see the movie The Thing for inspiration minus shapeshifting).
@doppelgreener Weeeell, the Wizard might win his contest. Of course, then he has to fight his entire party, plus a number of Intellect Devourers equal to his party size. Alternatively, he could just run.
They probably end up eating the other ID given they appear to be basically brains with limbs, and then write a bad review on Yelp about the experience via their newly occupied body.
> The intellect devourer initiates an Intelligence contest with an incapacitated humanoid within 5 feet of it. If it wins the contest, the intellect devourer magically consumes the target’s brain, teleports into the target’s skull, and takes control of the target’s body.
It'd be advantageous for them to have something like that, but given we have the Flump I'm pretty sure evolution is not a factor in how D&D monsters come to be.
the big todo about d20stl was that within 6 months (in 2008) that electronic media was to be taken down... Id think dtrpg would at least filter things out so they werent complying with dmca
or whatever it would be
its just, odd, to see things said one way, but people acting another
the only thing I have found, in regards to 'terminating' the d20stl, is an obscure quote from an interview stating future plans. its like he said it, they were planning to terminate, but they never did. they replaced it with new GSL for 4e, but even that does not include language like 'this supersedes the d20stl (or anything ese)
the language seems to imply d20stl cant actually be terminated, and they just hoped it would go away
Well, no, but if there's someone in the DriveThruRPG legal or marketing team giving them a steely death glare along with a message of "never host something like this again", then that is great.
Organisations work as such to help cancel out individual sources of stupid. Ideally.
Given that they managed to get into a Twitter fight about it, their PR department appears to be about as effective as a very small marmoset in a brightly lit room.
And yet the product's been pulled, so something has happened. And hopefully it's not a decision of "we'll pull this until people shut up, and then put it back and start selling whatever we want again."
Hopefully it's a decision of that going down and staying down.
@Storyteller Consider that even if WotC doesn't want anyone to produce stuff for their game, even if doing might not actually be at all legal, if WotC ever sends out a cease & desist or lawsuit notice over someone publishing a D&D 3.5e book, they will probably also intimidate an entire industry out of ever engaging with their products as third party publishers again.
So even supposing it's not legal to publish d20 system material, it's probably marketing suicide to take the necessary legal action to make them stop.
.... except in softer cases, maybe, unless there's already precedent for this thing happening a lot.
im going to call/submit a request tomorrow to wizards and see if I can figure this out. some say the GSL superseded it, but t references 4e over and over again, never actually overwrites STL and otherwise, exists as a separate legal entry
Reading this gaming industry retrospective I ran into a few phrases which confused me.
The d20 bust caused by 3.5e (2003) and the over-saturation of d20 products ran right into the Great Recession.
What's "the d20 bust"? I came into RPGs shortly after 3.5's release, so I can't compare befor...
