TRPG General Chat

12:04 AM

Just tell me if a character that shares spells with all allies in 20 ft can contribute to a party if we're a player short.

BESW

Usually a character whose power scales with the party size (like when one spell targets all his allies) does find his utility reduced as the party gets smaller. What system/edition, and how big is the party?

Metool

Legend, 3-5 characters

this will be if we're under 4

BESW

I'm not familiar with Legend, unfortunately.

I'd say "Yes, of course the character can contribute, but his economy will be reduced."

Metool

And I'm only running the character when there aren't enough players anyway.

well, the module is for 3-5 players, so I shouldn't say "enough" but "as many [...] as I'd like"

BESW

If the game's designed for the size the party is, it shouldn't be a major issue.

BESW

12:30 AM

@graeme Hi!

I think one of the Dresden Files short stories answers your question; I'll look it up when I have time, if nobody else gets to it first.

Alex P

12:54 AM

@Zachiel Well, if he's wearing a horny helmet, he's not a proper viking anyway. ;)

graeme

@BESW thanks for that... i just cant remember if i had ever seen it and i cant seem to find them mentioned in the rule books

Zachiel

1:10 AM

http://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/27614/becoming-a-black-court-vampire
edited. Take a look at the reasons for a laugh

@graeme (no offense intended, of course. We've all done that mistake)

BESW

[snerk]

user61230

It's awfully pretentious of you to assume that the players couldn't be covered in vampire blood. Sheesh.

BESW

@Emrakul It's not tagged larp, though.

user61230

Who says it's a LARP? ;]

BESW

If it's not a LARP then it should be tagged aaaaaaaah-run-for-your-lives

@graeme I can't find anything specific in any of my Dresden material yet, but there's a much easier way.

Since it's established in the Dresden Files novels and RPG that Stoker's novel Dracula is a manual on killing Black Court, you can use it as your Black Court reference guide.

So I'm asking on scifi.se:

1

Q: How does Dracula turn people into vampires?

Turning into a vampire seems to have something to do with Dracula drinking the person's blood, but I can't figure if Stoker actually explains the entire process. I fully expect that he didn't, as the novel is often not interested in making the vampire's powers too explicit, and that the "turning...

Metool

1:23 AM

Man, I can't even play Iji but I can still appreciate its amazingness.

BESW

(If the Dracula answer is unsatisfactory, I'll follow up with a DF-specific question.)

graeme

@Zachiel thanks for that. are you telling me that as a GM you DONT cover the players in blood to properly set the mood for a game?

@BESW thanks for spinning up the question and the Dracula question should cover it.

i was not planning on making them vampires at least at this stage

but i am kind of curious as to whether it would cause sort of sickness.

BESW

I think exposure to Black Court blood is probably going to be unfortunate but not actually infect them.

At most, it would begin a struggle to avoid becoming thralls.

graeme

maybe i will do that some thing similar to a combination of food poisoning and really bad dreams

BESW

That's a good idea. Make it a challenge or a conflict of its own, with consequences like "Urpy" or "Can't Sleep."

graeme

1:29 AM

that would be awkward because the vampire from which the blood came from is sort of dead

Urpy?

BESW

Nauseated, as if you might vomit.

graeme

ahhh that makes sense

BESW

Heck, if you wanted to make a meal of it, you could have an entire Restless session.

The blood-memory of the vampire trying to get revenge for its death from beyond the grave through lethal/dominating dreams, or something like that.

graeme

that could work especially if i do it sportatically

some of them have already been getting bad dreams from the location to start with

BESW

There you go. Call it foreshadowing and pretend you meant to do it.

One of the cool things about Fate, though, is that you can also put this in the hands of your players.

graeme

1:38 AM

there is that but those dreams are supposed to be triggered because they are in a SIGNIFICANT LOCATION. and LOTS of bad things have happened there

BESW

Give them a vague aspect like "Stained by Undead Blood" and then compel them to act in accordance with it... whatever they decide that means.

graeme

i think i will do that one

i am still trying to understand the system. may need to do some more reading before the game tonight on aspects

doppelgreener

Is there anything we can say to this user so they might understand why their answer is at -4?

I am a little horrified by their solution, which appears to work for them...

The "our GM doesn't kill them outright, he leaves them rescuable" part is a good idea though.

BESW

Why do you think it's at -4?

doppelgreener

The common sense roll resulting in the GM yelling at a person that their idea was retarded is horrifying and would be awful to be on the receiving end of unless I was used to it.

And it's not a useful suggestion for other groups that the GM starts yelling at their players and making them do d20 rolls in order to be able to do stuff.

If a player's doing something weird, it should be resolved with the GM and player talking, not the GM saying "roll a d20 and if you get anything other than a 1 I am going to yell at you and you don't get to do what you want"

graeme

1:45 AM

using too many acronyms would make it hard to understand

doppelgreener

It is useful for at least one group, evidently, but it is not....... a good idea (at least in my opinion).

Alex P

I downvoted it because I feel like the hobby has moved way, way past "There was a miscommunication between the two of us, so now I will punish you for it."

BESW

I'm also intrigued by the "ý" he used.

doppelgreener

@AlexP This too.

graeme

i think the point he was trying to say was that roll for common sense and unless you roll a 1 they allow the party to rescue them without completely killing off the character

BESW

1:48 AM

@JonathanHobbs So you make a comment saying "I'm not sure how this is in the spirit of the question, because <cite the bit where the OP is concerned about the player's feelings>. Can you expand on the idea in relation to the question's concerns?"

graeme

but pulling that out of what he is trying to say is not very clear

doppelgreener

@graeme Those two statements appear completely disconnected in the answer.

graeme

i am guessing mainly

doppelgreener

i.e. they make a roll and unless they fail disastrously at common sense, they're told not to be retarded. However, generally the GM allows it to happen, and the character is left in a rescuable state.

BESW

So another part of the comment can be "It's not very clear what you're suggesting."

Alex P

1:49 AM

@graeme Honestly I'd still downvote that. With a comment about how I think it's inferior to "IIEE" or the equivalent (that is to say, getting mutual commitment to what the point of doing something is before we have the character do the action).

graeme

it also may not be the correct answer but generally speaking the answer is hard to understand as a starting point

doppelgreener

I'm not sure the common sense roll is an appropriate piece of advice for this situation, where the OP is actually concerned about the player's feelings. Personally I would find that awful to be on the receiving end of unless I was used to it: I have to roll or be shut down by the GM, and have him yell at me that I'm retarded? I guess that works for your group, though. I would like to see the second suggestion about leaving the character rescuable expanded, though. It's a decent response, but is there more to say about it? — Jonathan Hobbs 7 secs ago

I am off to lunch! Ttfn

BESW

2:10 AM

I'm going to be gone this afternoon and early evening, so I made the vampire ideas from chat into an answer before I forget them. I'll update as new info comes in.

graeme

thanks for that i will also keep an eye on both threads and accept when/if we get something out of the sci fi question

BESW

It's usually a good idea to not accept for at least a day (up to a week?), to encourage more people to give answers.

graeme

the down side of the whole short attention span is that in a week i am most likely to have forgotton that i need to mark it as the answer

Alex P

@BESW Depends on the question a bit. For open-ended stuff, this is a good idea. For rules questions, I'll usually accept the first clear and well-documented answer quickly.

I don't really want five of the same answer, you know?

(RPG rules tend to be more wishy-washy so there's more room to let it sit open, of course.)

BESW

Multiple answers that say the same thing are bad policy, and leaving a question without an accepted answer is not an invitation for duplicate answers.

If that happens to you, it should be addressed through various channels depending on the context and severity of the problem.

And now, I go!

doppelgreener

2:48 AM

@BESW I've never been sure how to deal with that. List-ish questions in particular tend to get duplicate answers...

e.g. anything where the answers are suggesting a variety of tools, systems, books, etc. I just did some rummaging through tools questions to see if there was any occurrence of that and was surprised not to find that there (though it may be there with me simply having missed it)

BESW

5:43 AM

@JonathanHobbs In theory, the proper response is "please separate these items into one answer per item."

doppelgreener

5:56 AM

@BESW Well, I mean: what if there's a question asking about how to run games online, and three people answer Roll20?

On other SE's like Programmers it happens. Someone asks about tools to use and gets 30 answers. One of them will recommend a tool and talk about it at length; later on someone else will say "Use [same tool as was mentioned before], it's good and will do the job" or something minimal but enough to qualify for an answer.

Effectively providing a completely inferior answer that is still an answer

BESW

6:22 AM

Why and how are some answers deleted? Answers that do not fundamentally answer the question may be removed. This includes answers that are:

- “thanks!” or “me too!” responses
- exact duplicates of other answers

So, @JonathanHobbs, the answer is to get it deleted, with or without a comment explaining why as you feel is appropriate.

If they can expand it into a different answer, that's great.

If they can make the existing answer better, that's great too.

Metool

8:13 AM

I wonder what the difference would be between the sum of "The last message was posted X hours ago" values and the total hours since this chat began.

Inbar Rose

Hi guys

Now that two days have passed since I asked this question, and then I answered it myself yesterday - should I accept an answer? And which answer should I accept - since ultimately it was a collaboration between the players and myself to solve the issue using the advice found on the answers. I already upvoted those answers which provided help, but I can not accept them all...

Should I accept my own answer? (As it is the solution that ultimately was used?) Or is it too specific to my problem, and should I accept the answer that most generically solves the problem?

BESW

8:49 AM

Upvotes are an indication of site like/dislike/approval/disapproval.

"Accepting an answer" is something only the OP can do, and it indicates the answer most helpful to their particular situation.

Often upvoted and accepted answers overlap, but that's not necessarily the case; there's even badges for extremely unusual situations.

trogdor

lol

Inbar Rose

9:07 AM

@BESW While everything you said is true, it doesn't help me at all.

Alex P

9:46 AM

@InbarRose If you accept your own answer, it doesn't go to the top like someone else's accepted answer. It'll just stay where it is based on point score. So you aren't taking much away from somebody else's answer.

trogdor

it's a little annoying when a question has at least 3 good answers and none get accepted

Inbar Rose

10:52 AM

Okay - I think I will leave it open a bit, and I will accept the answer which I feel is the most generic and robust answer that solves the essential problem I am having, as opposed to the answers that specifically deal with my specific problem (Swashbucklers)

BESW

11:31 AM

@InbarRose I'd say that you should accept the answer you found most helpful, even if it's yours.

The community at large determines through upvoting which the most generally useful/popular answer is; your "accept" button is for you.

My point was that the two shouldn't be confused; voting and accepting have very different purposes.

trogdor

yeah

you should upvote whatever works for you

it's the comunities job to decide if they think they like another answer better

(or even if they happen to like some answers and the one you picked just as much as each other)

Inbar Rose

Okay, that is a much better answer.

BESW

Sorry, I thought I said that when I said accepting an answer indicates which was most helpful to your particular situation.

Upvote the answers you think are good, and accept the answer that was useful.

Inbar Rose

Yeah - but the problem that I asked about was (to quote myself) "
Should I accept my own answer? (As it is the solution that ultimately was used?) Or is it too specific to my problem, and should I accept the answer that most generically solves the problem?"

trogdor

accept the one you yourself used

or the one you intend to use

Inbar Rose

11:45 AM

Well, obviously my own solution (as it is what we are doing)

trogdor

then do that

if everyone else agrees they may upvote it

Inbar Rose

Thanks.

trogdor

if they don't, they will upvote orther things, or ignore it

or in rare occasions downvote

Inbar Rose

Well - rep is not my concern. I wanted to make sure that I follow the guidelines of this site

trogdor

but that should only happen when the answer is downright bad

Inbar Rose

11:46 AM

For instance, on StackOverflow, the accepted answer should be the one that helps solve the generic problem

trogdor

well

here

Inbar Rose

Answers which solve the problem too narrowly are frowned upon

BESW

We've found that specific answers to specific problems produce better content.

Inbar Rose

I see that.

trogdor

there is sometimes more than one answer that will fix the problem

Inbar Rose

11:47 AM

Which is why I am asking so many question. I do not want to bring other influences in here.

BESW

The RPG landscape is so broad that a generic answer quickly devolves into being useless for any particular scenario.

That shows great self-awareness on your part, thank you.

Inbar Rose

I can understand that logic.

@BESW heh, no problem :)

I read a lot about D&D 4e yesterday

BESW

12:08 PM

Cool. There are a lot of varying opinions.

Inbar Rose

yes

BESW

I was very suspicious of it, and avoided it for years. Had a lot of fun with it when I finally tried it, and really admire the system now, but I also recognize that it's not for me any more than 3.5 was, because the reasons both chafe me is that D&D itself has fundamental philosophy choices shared by every edition which I'm not interested in.

Inbar Rose

I found this guide to be very helpful.

BESW

Most of the "not yet available" is available now.

Inbar Rose

I figured.

BESW

12:23 PM

Skill training not only gives you a +5; it also unlocks certain uses of skills that those who aren't trained can't even attempt no matter how high their check.

Wands do exist, but in a much changed form: they're now implements which grant enhancement bonuses to spells like other implement types, but their specific gimmick is giving you access to an at-will power as an encounter power, whether it's one you already know (or even can know) or not.

I love that junk treasure is gone, although it does put a bit more pressure on the GM if he can't convince the players to make wishlists.

Daily powers almost always have an effect on a miss; it's almost impossible to use a daily power and have nothing happen.

trogdor

I think the ones that don't have effects on miss have effects "on regardless of hit or miss"

but I could be wrong

BESW

The change to diagonal movement is awesome in terms of making tactical combat easier. Just... don't think too hard about the non-Euclidean geometry this implies about the world and you'll be fine. It's a much-needed abstraction.

I really like the fact that Fort/Ref/Will are now defenses; it means that the attacker is always the one rolling the dice to see if the attack hits.

trogdor

yeah

BESW

The alignment system caused a lot of problems in earlier versions of the game. It's been removed from the mechanical system entirely now, and can be used, ignored, or revised according to the group's role-playing desires.

trogdor

but at the same time, it meant they could get away with making more things you could boost saves with

BESW

12:30 PM

By entirely defining saves. [grin] Honestly, saves are probably one of my least favorite single mechanics in 4e.

But that's a personal thing.

trogdor

they did need some changes I think

Inbar Rose

What do you mean by: "Skill training not only gives you a +5; it also unlocks certain uses of skills that those who aren't trained can't even attempt no matter how high their check." an example maybe?

BESW

Sure! One moment.

trogdor

Bosses were a little too good at killing save ends effects, I think. excluding "dominate" I think save ends effects should have been given a better chance against bosses in particular

Inbar Rose

Also - I read somewhere else that putting a point into a class skill gives +3, here it says any point in a skill gives +5 ?

BESW

12:34 PM

@InbarRose Putting a point in a class skill for +3 is a Pathfinder mechanic. Neither 3.5 nor 4e use it.

3.5 did have skill points, but 4e does not.

Inbar Rose

@BESW oh right...

I simply read pathfinder and D&D4e so near eachother I must have mixed them up

trogdor

but PC's could also mess with the save mechanics for themselves or thier targets a bit too easily

BESW

At level 1 in 4e, you choose a number of skills (determined by your class) from a list of skills (determined by your class). Those get a flat +5 and are considered "trained."

Inbar Rose

And thats the end of it?

trogdor

yeah

Inbar Rose

12:35 PM

Interesting.

trogdor

after that all you get is ability mod and 1/2 level

unless you take a feat

or pick equipment

or in some cases a Paragon Path or Epic Destiny that boosted it

Inbar Rose

feats in D&D4e I understand are more about tweaking things than really adding major abilities

BESW

Basically. There are feats which have "trained" as a prerequisite, you can take feats train in more skills or get bonuses to them (magic items and paths/destinies also give bonuses), and some uses of skills are only available if you're trained.

@InbarRose ....not really. There are a lot of things 4e feats can do.

But generally when you take a 4e feat, you notice it.

trogdor

@InbarRose actually, some higher level feats did give you "abilities"

not necesarrily powers though

BESW

Feats are almost never just giving you a higher number in something.

Inbar Rose

12:37 PM

So strike what I said earlier :)

BESW

Especially later in the game's life.

Example of a skill use:

Inbar Rose

Feats are common here? or rare?

BESW

Acrobatics: anyone can balance and escape from a grab or restraints with a high enough Acrobatics roll. Only people trained in Acrobatics know how to use it to reduce falling damage.

Inbar Rose

I see

That is a great example.

trogdor

you got feats every 2 levels

I think

BESW

12:39 PM

@InbarRose You get a feat at every even level, and at levels 1, 11, and 21.

trogdor

yeah ok that was what I missed

Phil

afternoon all

trogdor

lvl 1 11 and 21 also gave feats

Inbar Rose

And do some classes get more?

trogdor

no

no fighter bonus feats

well actually

Inbar Rose

12:39 PM

:D

BESW

@Phil Hi!

trogdor

some classes got "one" more feat

BESW

@InbarRose A little bit.

trogdor

as a class feature

Phil

Do people think this question falls within guidelines of what is OK on the site? It feels very 'discussiony' and broad to me...

0

Q: On pushing the boundaries on the novelty/familiarity scale

A fantasy environment stands between two ends - between the world of endless imagination, and the real world. At one extreme end of this spectrum stands a schizophrenic mess (very creative and original, but no one can actually enjoy it, as they can't connect the dots and make any sense out of it)...

world-building

Inbar Rose

12:40 PM

Oh, feats as class features.

trogdor

but they couldn't take it again

BESW

@InbarRose Aye. You get all or nearly all of your class features at level 1, and they sometimes include a feat.

trogdor

for example, the ranger build that goes for melee

gets toughness

which gives them 5 extra health at lvl 1-10 5 more at lvl 11-20 and 5 more at lvl 21-30

BESW

All wizards, clerics, bards, etc., get Ritual Casting as a bonus feat, meaning they're able to learn and use non-combat magic (they also start play with a handful of rituals known).

@Phil Yes, it's far too broad and vague.

And the question he links to is borderline.

Phil

Time for some VTC action then

BESW

12:47 PM

Shall I leave the comment or shall you?

Phil

Just left a very brief one, but you are better at verbalising these things so go ahead

BESW

How's this?

> Although this is an excellent topic for discussion, it's hard to see what kind of answers would be useful for your specific situation. Can you please give us more information about the challenge you're facing? As stated, "there are either too many possible answers, or good answers would be too long for this format."

Phil

looks good to me

Inbar Rose

yeah

wax eagle

rpg.stackexchange.com/q/27612/1084 exists in a better form somewhere...not sure where

BESW

12:53 PM

> I'm afraid that without a greater focus on your own challenge, this is the subject for a book, or a lengthy dialogue, neither of which the SE format can handle. You're welcome to come into the chat, where such a discussion would be welcomed.

wax eagle

here we go: rpg.stackexchange.com/q/12073/1084

Inbar Rose

Could also request something like "You could include a shortened "header" of what you just said in multiple questions each dealing with a different aspect of your world that you have questions about?

BESW

@InbarRose That's better hashed out in chat.

He's too vague right now for it to be useful advice, I think.

Okay, how's this?

Inbar Rose

Like - question which is about this scale, but specifically how it deals with an economy? Or how it deals with social classes? Or how it deals with crime? Or what a city would look like?

Phil

agreed

BESW

12:55 PM

> Although this is an excellent topic for discussion, it's hard to see what kind of answers would be useful for your specific situation. As stated, there are either too many possible answers, or good answers would be too long for this format.

> Without a greater focus on your own challenge, this is the subject for a book, or a lengthy dialogue, neither of which the SE format can handle. You're welcome to come into the chat, where such a discussion would be welcomed.

Phil

looks good

BESW

@InbarRose That'd be potentially useful once he's narrowed his topic down enough to get to cases.

Inbar Rose

yeah that incorporates what I asked.

Im still new to this aspect of the site... :) So feel free to mostly ignore, or at least put my suggestion at low priority.

Phil

I've been on the site a while and still haven't got my head fully around it, hence usually coming on chat and asking for opinion before I use Vote to Close

BESW

Keeping the conversation open is good!

Inbar Rose

12:58 PM

what is the rep req for VTC here?

BESW

3,000.

Inbar Rose

Cool, on SO its 4k

BESW

I talk like I know what's going on, but I'm not a mod or anything, and the nature of SE is to adapt and change its rules within its purpose; the rules serve the purpose, not the other way around.

Inbar Rose

:)

The community is the mod.

Phil

I'm also aware I can be a bit trigger happy with it so a second opinion is always helpful

Inbar Rose

1:00 PM

As an established veteran of the community, your opinions and attitudes are important.

BESW

@InbarRose Also I talk a lot.

wax eagle

@InbarRose still 3k on SO...

Inbar Rose

And your input/suggestions should not be taken lightly. You have experienced the site more than most - and have a greater understanding of what works, and doesn't. And how things should flow. (As I understand it)

@waxeagle Really? I thought it was 4k... no matter :)

wax eagle

@InbarRose nope, 3k for all gradauted SE sites :). Though refactoring SO privs at some point would probably make good sense, they'd have a riot on their hands if they tried

BESW

@InbarRose Careful, don't feed the ego.

I have 10 months of experience on a three-year-old site.

And no context in any other SE to compare, really.

Inbar Rose

1:07 PM

Well... that is quite a rack of reputation you have for only 10 months.

BESW

[grin]

Phil

That's coz he's good at the 'problem player'/social problem type questions

trogdor

I wonder why that is,.... augghejfs;sjpfs['s

(froths at the mouth)

Phil

:o)

BESW

That's true, I guess, looking at my top-voted answers.

Phil

1:11 PM

they're the ones most people can identify with so get the highest vote counts

BESW

(I'm still amused that the Survival question is so highly voted.)

@Johnny Hi!

Johnny

Hai there!

Phil

Hey

Johnny

Listen, about that botched question (rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/27628/…), can we get to some conclusion here?

BESW

You've got some really interesting topics going on in that question, stuff I've struggled with myself both consciously and unconsciously, but I can't figure out anything about your situation that would let me know if any of my experience could help the challenge you're specifically facing.

Johnny

1:15 PM

Sure, I understand that questions like that are hard to answer ...

Phil

it feels too much like a 'discuss' essay question to me.

BESW

@Johnny If you have a specific challenge, we need to know more about it so we can help you with it. If you don't, then it's not a good fit for the site--although we can talk about it in chat all day.

wax eagle

simply put, you're asking about a topic that could easily fill the pages of an entire book.

Johnny

Let's say I've got a fantasy setting filled with aliens and a bit of weirdness in concepts. But them, I'm also the intense, theoretical kind of a guy who gets interested in dissecting such questions on an abstract level ... tough stuff :)

Phil

So what is the problem/challenge you are facing?

Johnny

1:19 PM

Oh, thats actually quite simple: the players don't like the setting. Too alien to them, they say ...

Phil

So that's a start

BESW

@Johnny That we can get our teeth into.

Phil

In your question, describe the setting briefly and the problem you are having, then ask for advice as to how to solve that problem

Johnny

The thing is i can't un-alien the setting, as that is it's trademark, it's key concept ...

Phil

So your question is how to help players get into the setting

BESW

1:21 PM

Okay, so include that in the question. Talk about the problems, the limitations, the context.

Phil

What can you do to ease the transition

What tools/techniques have others used in similar situations

BESW

Sounds like your question is something like "How can I help players feel comfortable with a setting they are having a hard time identifying with?"

doppelgreener

@Johnny I once ran a Christmas Campaign for my friends. Just some elves and yetis and other typical fantasy stuff. The characters had been summoned to this distant wintery realm to save christmas. The players found it hard to connect to the setting, because not only were they in a fantasy world, their characters were in their characters' version of a fantasy world.

It was a double-layer fantasy they found it hard to get into.

It doesn't necessarily take much for players to not be able to get into a setting. It certainly doesn't require going as far as high theory and super-alien surrounds.

That said, that also means it doesn't necessarily take much to be able to get them into such a setting.

BESW

I'm looking for some already-asked questions that might be helpful.

doppelgreener

They may need a point of familiarity or connection in the strange world, for instance, and that's it. Maybe.

Johnny

1:23 PM

The players :) -- such an elusive bunch

BESW

21

Q: Techniques for communicating setting and campaign information to the PCs?

In the past, I've almost always had at least one NPC that would travel with the characters as a type of "lore master" to expand on the story. I've tried to make the character witty and, once the characters have sufficient information, inevitably pulled from the party. Is there another way I can ...

gm-techniques settings

9

Q: Are human characters needed in a roleplay system?

I proposed, a long time ago a setting without humans in it. Instead I'd designed a series of fairly 'alien' creatures, and I was going to set it up as Science-Fantasy (set on the moon of a brown dwarf, evolutionary trees). Something that could have existed on an exoplanet...with magic. The respo...

system-agnostic settings

Phil

the second one is really good

BESW

32

Q: Helping new players learn a setting on the go

I started a new Eberron campaign last night, and I quickly ran into the problem of my players not knowing much of anything about the campaign setting. What is the Mournland? Where is the Eldeen Reaches? Do goblins have a written language? How long ago was The Last War? Who were the Dhakaani? ...

gm-techniques settings eberron

You asked this one:

11

Q: GMing an unorthodox setting the players know NOTHING about

Just a while back, there has been a question concerning GMing a setting the players know better than the GM. Now, let me ask you sort of an inverse of that question. I.e. how to introduce and integrate the players into a setting they have no clue about? Let me be more specific here: the setting ...

gm-techniques system-agnostic settings metagaming

@Phil asked this one, not quite as on the nose, but I'll link it:

8

Q: Introducing a complex game world to players unfamiliar with its fiction whilst still hitting the ground running with character creation?

I am preparing to start up a Hellfrost game using the Savage Worlds system. Although I've run Hellfrost before, it has always been for people who are already familiar with its fiction and fluff. In this new case though, players will be completely new to the world and everything that goes with i...

gm-techniques system-agnostic character-creation settings

And that's all I've got for now.

Johnny

Coll. You're providing some neat reading material to dig into right there. Might take some time to process all that ...

So ... thanks for that! (I'll bookmark that right away)

BESW

All I did was run an is:question search on the setting tag.

Johnny

1:26 PM

Well, you know what you're doing

BESW

And now you know what I'm doing too!

Johnny

1:45 PM

A sort-of realization stands out here: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/11669/… - it seems that no matter the setting, not including the humans does not eliminate the issue of, say, "cultural uniformism" - no matter what you do, as a game master, you're still stuck in a body of a human ... puny little human. And the players too ...

Shodan style: "... a pathetic creature of meat and bone ..."

BESW

@Alyksandrei Hi!

Johnny

Oh hai!

BESW

@Johnny Heh, yes. We always bring our own context to what we do.

Alyksandrei

@BESW Hi!

BESW

@Johnny Are you familiar with the distinction between sympathy and empathy?

Sympathy means you feel compassion, can recognize that another person is feeling something.

Johnny

1:52 PM

@BESW hmmm

BESW

Empathy means that you can identify with that feeling, that you can imagine yourself in their place.

Johnny

They're the same! Aren't they?

If you feel them, its mirror neurones ...

BESW

It's a fascinating subject for research, but at some level no, they're not.

Johnny

And as you feel, you have no direct access to the other person's feelings ...

BESW

I can feel sorry for someone who has lost a loved one, and speculate on what it's like.

Johnny

1:54 PM

Still, the experience is individual

BESW

But unless I've got a relatable experience of some sort, it's almost impossible for me to feel empathy.

Johnny

You can lose a loved one ... but the relationship was unique

BESW

This isn't a cut-and-dried issue of "is" and "is not," it's a matter of degrees.

Johnny

I've had a guy telling me i know nothing about losing someone - he used that as a leverage to win the argument.

Thought there is something to the degrees, as youre saying ...

BESW

I don't think there's much point in arguing over if someone else is feeling sympathy or empathy, but the language is useful.

I bring it up because it relates directly to what you said earlier: that in portraying aliens, we are at a fundamental handicap because we are not alien.

Phil

1:57 PM

I know people who, although they have experienced similar, find it impossible to put themselves in other peoples shoes

they simply cannot consider anything that they are not feeling themselves

BESW

My father, on the other hand, has a curious case where it is nearly impossible for him to imagine that others are not feeling what he is feeling. It's a kind of Gaia-like experience, I think.

Johnny

@Phil I suppose ... Its ... social intelligence? You know, the degree of being able to attune to someone

Phil

that's part of it I think, yes

BESW

@Johnny Social intelligence requires commonality.

There must be shared schema at some level, and the required level is dependent on many factors.

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