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trogdor
trogdor
12:34 AM
int adding into melee damage is always nice
as long as you actually have int
 
Alex P
Alex P
So, don't ask why this has come up now. But the cover of Dragon #339 drives me crazy.
 
trogdor
trogdor
lol
 
Alex P
Alex P
That is... not at all a good depiction of that character at all. In context, I'd call it straight-up sexist. Because you're taking a completely unapproachable, inhuman, and only vaguely-female mystery figure and giving her cleavage and an hourglass frame.
Okay, done complainin'.
 
user61230
But... but less armor is more effective... I mean..... isn't it..?
 
trogdor
trogdor
I'm sorry, but they gave Dragonborn women breasts
I just couldn't keep caring anymore after that
 
BESW
BESW
12:46 AM
I still say the dwarven template backstory makes sense for that.
 
Alex P
Alex P
@Emrakul I don't think she wears armor at all. Or, rather, maybe she is armor. It's all kinda indistinguishable.
 
trogdor
trogdor
@BESW I don't care if it makes sense, it's wrong
 
Alex P
Alex P
@trogdor That's like githyanki women suddenly getting breasts in 3rd Edition.
 
trogdor
trogdor
this is my point
 
Alex P
Alex P
Giant ones on an emaciated frame.
 
trogdor
trogdor
12:49 AM
I just can't rouse myself to be mad at them for every time they do it, because it isn't like you can't see this coming
 
Alex P
Alex P
The thing that annoys me isn't so much BOOBS! as how any time there's something evocative with its own cool style and whatnot, it eventually rots away into generic D&D mish-mash.
They worked so hard to make these weird-ass settings with their own super-distinct art styles in the later years of AD&D 2nd Edition.
And then you have, like, 3rd Edition books bringing back Planescape without any of the stuff that made it its own setting.
 
trogdor
trogdor
I wouldn't know
I entered DnD in 3.5
all I know for myself is that they do have this tendancy to give anything female breasts
 
Alex P
Alex P
Planescape was originally a riff on the old D&D cosmology. Where they were like, "Your high-level characters come here to fight gods and stuff! But what about the people who just live here and think you're a stupid rube tourist?"
 
trogdor
trogdor
and I don't consider it ok, but,..... they won't stop no matter how many times I rage
 
user61230
I don't blame them, because it's actually a good marketing technique. It appeals to the mass market, and they're a company.
 
Alex P
Alex P
12:54 AM
I blame Wayne Reynolds, partly.
It's his art style.
Part of his sort of pulp-ish aesthetic.
 
user61230
That doesn't mean it's not sexist, but if society didn't respond to it the way they did...
 
Alex P
Alex P
Also the man can't draw feet.
I think if you went through all my D&D3 books back when I still had them, you'd find maybe a dozen pictures with proper feet.
 
user61230
Pathfinder artists know how to draw feet.
 
Alex P
Alex P
@Emrakul Not Wayne Reynolds.
 
user61230
Wayne worked with Paizo on PF?
 
user61230
12:56 AM
I had no idea.
 
trogdor
trogdor
lol
feeeeeeeet
 
Alex P
Alex P
@Emrakul He did most of the iconic characters, IIRC. Certainly that wizard or sorceress lady that was on a lot of their initial stuff.
The elf with the red outfit?
 
user61230
Ah, yes
 
user61230
I see now. Except the feet on that one are covered by the word "Rulebook" :P
 
Alex P
Alex P
Yeah, he ends up drawing a lot of characters who kinda have feet but then you look more closely and they are triangular meat chunks.
He's not, like, noted 90s comic-book icon Rob Leifeld. Reynolds' feet are a weak point, not a crime against nature.
 
user61230
1:00 AM
I really want to make a two-shield fighter.
 
BESW
BESW
@Emrakul And call them "The Rock" and "The Hard Place," right?
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@BESW \o/ that would be great.
 
BESW
BESW
And use them like battle cymbals.
 
user61230
Except with peoples' heads.
 
BESW
BESW
Yes.
 
Alex P
Alex P
1:02 AM
::head in hands:: There's something really wrong with a system where the only way to use a shield in an accurate manner requires so much resource investment that your best bet is to just use TWO.
In "real life," you're supposed to hit people with shields, like, all the time. It's not especially tricky.
 
BESW
BESW
I spent a while trying to build a Captain America in 3.5 or 4e, but never got it to my satisfaction.
 
user61230
If you min/max a two-shield fighter, you can get up to ridiculous damage pretty quickly. A GM I know built a two-shield fighter who dealt 67d6 damage at level 8.
 
user61230
Nonlethal damage, but still.
 
trogdor
trogdor
lol
 
Alex P
Alex P
@Emrakul who cares, right? just kill them later
Or don't.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
1:04 AM
Did Daniels (the guy asking about converting an RPG to a computer game) come into chat yet?
 
trogdor
trogdor
or let your non tow shield friends finish them
 
Alex P
Alex P
@JonathanHobbs Yeah, we talked a bit.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
Ok, cool :)
 
user61230
Or just kick them once they're unconscious.
 
trogdor
trogdor
or punch
but that would require dropping a shield
so kick is good
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
1:05 AM
@AlexP Reasons I am preferring Fate over D&D. How to create a character who attacks with his shields: "My guy hits people with his shields." "Okay." "Also he throws them and they bounce around." "Sure." Done!
 
Alex P
Alex P
@JonathanHobbs Honestly that's not usually my priority. "Make anything you want," I mean.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
(Maybe create an aspect with "shield-warrior" in it or something)
 
BESW
BESW
@JonathanHobbs I think the Captain America shield might be worth its own extra, because it has that kind of narrative weight.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@BESW The thing where it has incredible blocking power and he makes crazy bouncing attacks with it?
 
trogdor
trogdor
lol
yeah
that's a superpower just having that shield.
 
BESW
BESW
1:09 AM
And it's made of the strongest stuff ever, and is a powerful symbol of hope that he can use to rally the troops...
 
trogdor
trogdor
more than one superpower even
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
Okay, well, if it's Captain America, that's probably worth extra stuff. Just creating some guy who throws his shields around is a bit simpler though. :)
 
BESW
BESW
Aye.
 
Alex P
Alex P
back in a bit
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@trogdor Tenser's Captain America's floating shield? :D
(GONNA HAPPEN.)
 
Metool
Metool
1:11 AM
just found a Ponies for Pathfinder supplement kickstarter.
isn't sure how to feel.
 
BESW
BESW
@Metool I... cannot see that working well with the d20 System.
 
Metool
Metool
@BESW why not?
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
@Metool we've had ahem extensive discussion on a proposed ponies system
 
Metool
Metool
Aaand?
 
user61230
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
1:13 AM
it needs...odd things
 
trogdor
trogdor
@JonathanHobbs lol
 
user61230
Oh. Oh my gods. Unicorn ponies. If I post this on Meta.SO, they will freak out.
 
user61230
 
BESW
BESW
I've found at least three attempts to make full-fledged independent FiM RPG systems, as well.
@Emrakul "Earth pony." Not "ponyfolk." They're all ponies. [canon pedant]
And yeah, ah. Earth ponies at -2 Str? They're totally +2 Con.
Anyway. The d20 System doesn't encourage FiM-style play.
 
trogdor
trogdor
lol
 
BESW
BESW
1:17 AM
The social conflict systems are rudimentary to the point of usually consisting of a single roll, or maybe two opposed rolls.
A Friend in Deed gets reduced to Pinkie failing a Diplomacy roll, but she has a feat that lets her re-try using her Insight instead.
And the physical combat is too granular. FiM combat isn't often about the combat; it's about the interpersonal dynamics that get shoved into the open during the stressful experience.
Personality-driven stories just aren't something d20 System is built for.
 
Metool
Metool
Wait. What's the 4E system called?
 
BESW
BESW
4e is a d20 System product.
d20 System is the generic "roll a d20, add your ability modifier and another modifier depending on the action" system, with classes, feats, skills, damage rolls being non-d20 dice, etc.
Most of the pony RPGs I've found come from the d20 System school of RPG, and are decent at replicating the physical aspects of the world but don't support the kind of story the show actually tells.
Because ultimately, whether Applejack has +2 Str or +2 Con doesn't matter in all but the fewest of the stories about her.
 
Metool
Metool
But ultimately, I care more about It's a Dangerous Business Going Out Your Door than I do about most other fics, and I imagine others might feel the same way.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@BESW Gunslinger doesn't appear to be a class...
 
BESW
BESW
I'm leaving a comment.
Where did you find this power? You've got dnd-4e in the tags and it's formatted like a 4e power, but 4e has no mention of handguns anywhere, much less a "Gunslinger" class or other source of powers. If it's a homebrew power, then we'll need to know what your intent was in making it. — BESW 11 secs ago
@JonathanHobbs I leave it in your capable hands for at least ten minutes. ttfn
 
Metool
Metool
1:35 AM
it has the house-rules tag.
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
added post facto
 
BESW
BESW
Yeah, but that could be in reference to the ruling.
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
it couldn't be a gamma world thing could it?
 
BESW
BESW
@JonathanHobbs I think the problem is that he's putting too much into the attack line. The target line is sufficient to attack each creature in the burst once.
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
 
BESW
BESW
1:37 AM
Hellooooo homebrew, and I'm out for a while.
 
Metool
Metool
Gah, wikis.
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
though that doesn't have this specific power
 
Metool
Metool
Ah, here's the source then.
 
Alex P
Alex P
Hi again everyone.
 
BESW
BESW
1:55 AM
I see three separate questions. The first is a generic question about close bursts targets (in the title); the second is about how to interpret a homebrew power; the third is about how to change that power (and since you're asking for it to be "over or under powered," I don't see how we can help with that). Please pick one to focus on, and if the other questions still need answering make them into other posts. That way the one question you're most concerned about can get due attention. — BESW 1 min ago
I really think @waxeagle should get the guy into a chat, but I can't be part of it; I'm heading out soon.
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
@BESW I'll drop an invite in.
 
BESW
BESW
@JonathanHobbs You've got a lot of work to do on that answer.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@BESW Do I?
 
BESW
BESW
> the effect line (which has mechanical weight) this attack is performed by firing at the enemies
Lacks verb.
> This isn't a poorly written power. The author appears to have misunderstood the purpose and full utility of the effect, target and hit lines, and unclearly and ineffectively expressed their ideas.
I think you mean "is" poorly written.
And so forth.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
Going to reread it, I was evidently more distracted than I thought.
 
BESW
BESW
2:03 AM
@JonathanHobbs I'm taking the "how to change the power" line out of the question, as it's asking for both over- and under-powered options and in the comments he clarified that it's of secondary concern.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
Alright.
 
BESW
BESW
New edit:
0
Q: How many times can this power attack one target?

Vos harrowOne of my players wants to use this homebrew class, but we're unclear on how to read one of its powers: Rotating Turret Gunslinger Attack 1 Enemies close in from all sides. You make them regret that decision. Encounter * Martial, Weapon Standard Action Close burst 1 ...

dnd-4e powers homebrew attack
...I think it's very telling about the D&D paradigm that the first line of that homebrew's "Playing a Gunslinger" section is "Gunslingers have no reservations about murder, but also don’t generally go about seeking it."
 
Alex P
Alex P
I'm really looking forward to the first time my Burning Wheel character kills someone. Because it's going to be interesting.
I mean, I kinda enjoy killing people in games.
Err, okay, that came out wrong.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
2:19 AM
@BESW A lot of work: am I done?
 
Alex P
Alex P
But, I have nothing against stories that prominently feature combat or murder.
But it's kinda interesting when it's not a given.
Also when it's hard
 
BESW
BESW
@JonathanHobbs Looks better, but I'm running late and gotta dash.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@BESW Alright, bye for now! :)
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
it's not homebrew that I can't stand...it's 4e homebrew...
at least poorly done 4e homebrew (is there another kind?)
 
trogdor
trogdor
not that I know of
it's bad enough some of the official powers in 4E
homebrew isn't even close to balanced for 4E that I have ever seen
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
2:25 AM
@waxeagle there's definitely well written homebrew, though it may or may not be mythical (I haven't looked into the matter)
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
to me, 4e lends itself so well to reskinning that I see absolutely no need to write my own power for it. If i want to play something off the wall I'll find something close to what I want to play and skin it.
 
trogdor
trogdor
if you reskin a normal power that's great
I am all for that
but so far I have not seen a single homebrew power that I thought was built well FOR 4E
it sometimes seems like it is hard enough for Wizards to make balanced powers for their own game, so I am not surprised
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
@trogdor yeah. I've actually seen a well thoughout homebrew weapon construction system, but power construction has to be so careful and most folks who want to write their own don't understand the system well enough to actually write for it
 
trogdor
trogdor
mm
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
@trogdor the amount of balance directed errata they've had to issue...
 
trogdor
trogdor
2:28 AM
yeah
errata is a big part of it
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
trial and error game design :)
 
trogdor
trogdor
not necessarily the only big part, but its up there
 
Alex P
Alex P
@waxeagle All game design involves prodigious quantities of trial and error.
 
trogdor
trogdor
this is true
but 4E is a big game, in terms of how much material comes out
and honestly, Wizards seems to have always had an issue coming up with actually balanced things
 
Alex P
Alex P
"Wizards" as a monolithic entity is kinda tricky.
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
2:32 AM
@trogdor yeah...and their combo blindspots are quite often huge.
 
trogdor
trogdor
yeah
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
they can write a power that makes complete sense in a vacuum, but when it's introduced into the wild it's broken in two minutes
 
trogdor
trogdor
BESW has prolly mentioned a fighter who did massive amounts of pushing, and debuffed people he pushed
 
Alex P
Alex P
The stackability of the abilities does make it super-hard to balance.
 
trogdor
trogdor
I figured that out, and latter I found even more I could add to it to make it more ridiculous
half again as much pushing was added, and over half of the push was turned into slide instead
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
2:35 AM
@trogdor and then with the pushing and the sliding comes the proning, and, did you want to attack this game? no? of course not...
 
trogdor
trogdor
this was all before you add in how much pushing or slideing the power you use does
yeah
prone, slow
stuff like that
push/slide people 11 squares, make em use a move action just to get up, then they only get to move 2
if they have no range, they are screwed.
if they do have range, push them into all your melee
now they can't even run
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
and you make sure your allies take agile opportunist and have decent MBAs :)
 
trogdor
trogdor
yeah
but just by itself, it is still pretty broken
if our 4E group had actually coordinated our builds, BESW would have had to up the anti a lot
as is, he says he already had to make things harder just because of certain individual builds we had
it really isn't an incredibly balanced game if you aren't trying to make it one
 
Alex P
Alex P
So, I'm curious.
Since 4e has well-defined character-building space and whatnot, and supports "gamey" battlegrid combat without a lot of ad-hoc decision-making...
It seems like it would do "tournament module" play well.
Have people done that with it?
 
trogdor
trogdor
how so?
like fighting each other? doing a dungeon crawl in less time/rounds?
 
Alex P
Alex P
2:44 AM
The old-timey tradition of "Throw a party at this mega-hard dungeon and see how far you get."
 
trogdor
trogdor
ah
 
Alex P
Alex P
Maybe also time/rounds.
 
trogdor
trogdor
not sure, I would guess that probably happens?
in some form or other anyway, but I don't know
I just played it as it is
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
@AlexP yes. actually one of their store programs is designed for exactly this
 
Alex P
Alex P
@waxeagle Interesting!
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
2:46 AM
@AlexP it's called Lair Assault
There is also a set of 4e homebrew called fourthcore that's published 3 adventures that are along this line.
 
Alex P
Alex P
I was thinking back to MMOGing, is why. And I ran the same dungeon like 100 times with pretty much the same group. And we optimized our work down to, like, completing a 12-man thing that takes most groups 2 hours (if they beat it) down to a 1:15 8-man.
And this was actually, like, fun.
Even though it was really repetitive in most ways.
But just knowing you were X% above the norm.
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
@AlexP Lair Assualt is designed to be played multiple times by the same or a similar group of players
I haven't actually tried it so I don't know if it stays fun for much past the first time, but it's designed for multiple run throughs
 
Alex P
Alex P
Interesting!
 
Metool
Metool
pain
 
Alex P
Alex P
@Metool ?
 
Metool
Metool
2:54 AM
Not sure what's up with my back, but it hurts.
 
Alex P
Alex P
:( Lower back?
 
Metool
Metool
Upper.
It's not sharp, but my god.
 
Alex P
Alex P
Oh, yick, that kind of between-the-shoulderblades feelings?
(I don't know why I like to play these guessing games.)
 
Metool
Metool
No, shoulders.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
3:10 AM
Lair Assault would definitely have to come with something letting your character respawn with their memory intact...
 
Alex P
Alex P
> The Immortal Dread Pirate Lives On! (Su): when killed, a swashbuckler continues to fight while dead. Feel free to continue tracking damage, but it doesn't actually do anything (and she gains a Hardness rating, being a dead body). After one minute, she reverts to actually being dead, but becomes a Ghost for free. Enjoy your capstone.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
(though perhaps as a completely different person. Reincarnation-type thing.)
 
Alex P
Alex P
(From here)
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
Oh my god, what? xD
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
@JonathanHobbs metagaming is encouraged in LA IIRC
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
3:11 AM
@waxeagle Oh! Well. Very well 8)
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
it's set up to be DM vs players encouraging both sides to go all out
there is a loose story, but it's a single massive encounter.
so no rests at all
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
So this is a thing where the DM is actually told "Your goal is to defeat the players"?
 
Alex P
Alex P
@JonathanHobbs That's the idea of tournament modules in general.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
Excellent.
 
Alex P
Alex P
With the assumption that you are "playing by the rules" more than you'd be in a regular game.
It used to be a convention tradition back in the days of BD&D and such, IIRC.
That's kinda where Tomb of Horrors come from, though Tomb of Horrors is degenerate on purpose.
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
3:17 AM
@AlexP yeah it's a very RAW exercise because the DM is now a competitive entity rather than a storyteller
 
Alex P
Alex P
I'm pleased this exists. Because it's short-form, focused RPG play!
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
oh jeeze that gunslinger is so MAD that it's not even funny
 
Alex P
Alex P
Wargame-like in the extreme, perhaps, but that's not bad for a game-store environment.
@waxeagle The 4e Dex/Int/Cha one?
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
Dex, Cha and Str...I guess that covers major defenses...but str attack that does cha damage? no thanks
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@waxeagle whaaa?
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
3:20 AM
@JonathanHobbs class feature: pistol whip
Pistol Whip Gunslinger Feature
Some just have to have discipline beat into them.
At-Will * Martial, Weapon
Standard Action                 Melee weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding a ranged weapon with a stock or butt.
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 1[W] + Charisma modifier damage.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
why
why why why why why [begins writing on walls] why why why why why why why
Why not keep it as a dex, int or cha attack?
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
and it can't decide whether it's melee or ranged...
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
It's Melee.
But it shouldn't say "weapon" after "melee"
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
@JonathanHobbs I think that's Ok. I was saying the class couldn't decide what it was
 
Alex P
Alex P
Strength for attack, Charisma for damage?
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
3:24 AM
@waxeagle What, "melee weapon"?
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
@JonathanHobbs yeah, that indicates the range is the same as the weapon's
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@AlexP I'm just bothered by the fact this class is a ranged class which requires strength. Is that a prominent attack stat?
 
user61230
0
Q: Synonymize or retag [online] and [online-roleplaying]

EmrakulWe should synonymize or retag online + online-roleplaying -> online-roleplaying. The tag wiki for online reads: Involving play of tabletop RPGs using Internet tools such as desktop applications, web applications, chat clients, and so on. Which fits the self-description of online-roleplayi...

feature-request tag-synonyms retag-request
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
@JonathanHobbs just for the class feature...that I've found so far
though it does offer MBA on a few powers...
so strange
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@waxeagle Then it's a melee attack made at range where you hit them with the pistol and use strength for the attack modifier.
(You're throwing the pistol at them)
 
user61230
3:26 AM
Also, I've noticed the initiative tag is around, but only has one question. There are a bunch of questions concerning initiative, though; was this destroyed at some point?
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
@JonathanHobbs in this case it's the second end of the pistol...it's functioning as a double weapon here (lolwut?)
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@Emrakul Maybe that question created the tag.
 
user61230
It did, but I'm wondering why it's the only question with initiative...
 
user61230
Given the number of questions concerning initiative.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
Because no other questions have been tagged with it yet.
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
3:27 AM
@Emrakul probably just because it didn't exist prior to that question and no one had thought to create it yet
 
Metool
Metool
Because the thought occurred to nobody?
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
And if it remains the only question with that tag, the tag will disappear in a few days.
 
John Craven
John Craven
it should be replaced with an Internet tag
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
If you want the tag to continue to exist I suggest you retag a couple of initiative questions with it (don't go all at once).
 
John Craven
John Craven
because lots of things are about the Internet now
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
3:28 AM
@JonathanHobbs you know what that class is really missing though? stats for the guns...
 
user61230
Huh. Iunno. It just seems weird that nobody's thought to use the initiative tag yet... oh well.
 
user61230
Thanks!
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@Emrakul It happens! This is how tags are created (and possibly then die away again)
 
user61230
Seems like a useful tag. I'll do that.
 
Alex P
Alex P
@JonathanHobbs I don't think you're throwing the pistol.
You're hitting them with the gun itself, while holding it.
At least that's what the name communicates.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
3:31 AM
@AlexP Well, you can make it at the pistol's range, and it's a melee attack. I guess you could fulfil the requirement but then just shoot them, or yell at them charismatically?
The name is mechanically meaningless though ;)
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
@JonathanHobbs I assume that the stock or butt will have seperate stats from the muzzle end :)
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
You: (a) have a gun with a stock or butt, (b) make a melee attack (c) against anyone in your weapon's range (d) using strength (e) and deal charisma damage
 
Alex P
Alex P
@JonathanHobbs Where does it say c?
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
"melee weapon"
 
Alex P
Alex P
So what means "use your weapon's range"?
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
3:33 AM
8 mins ago, by wax eagle
@JonathanHobbs yeah, that indicates the range is the same as the weapon's
 
Alex P
Alex P
gotcha
poorly-written description is poorly-written
it is like longcat in that way
 
Metool
Metool
Standard Action                 Melee weapon
Requirement: You must be wielding a ranged weapon with a stock or butt.
what.
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
@Metool right, we need the stats for the weapon now
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
Actually I'm not so sure "Melee weapon" is a thing as far as a range statement goes
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
@JonathanHobbs it is, I checked
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
3:35 AM
Actually, yeah, it is (Arrow of Warning). "Ranged weapon" is a thing. "Melee weapon" therefore is the same, but it's a melee attack using weapon range.
 
Magician
Magician
Hello!
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
@Magician g'day mate
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
Hi!
 
user61230
Evenin'!
 
Metool
Metool
@Magician Hey!
 
Magician
Magician
3:36 AM
Oooh, active chat
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
ok, none of the dandwiki stuff has stats for the butts of their guns...
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
We are discussing a Gunslinger homebrew class.
 
Magician
Magician
@JonathanHobbs For which edition?
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
@Magician 4e
 
trogdor
trogdor
wait a sec
primary atributes are dex wis cha
but they have a str to hit
on a class feature
no no no no no no no no no
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
3:44 AM
@trogdor yes
22 mins ago, by Jonathan Hobbs
why why why why why [begins writing on walls] why why why why why why why
it's not great
 
trogdor
trogdor
this is a prime example of one of the reasons 4E homebrew sucks, at least right now
and it looks like ranger pretty much already fills the role they are trying for
I see no reason for any of this
if you want to say you are shooting a gun, just re skin ranger
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
@trogdor honest, I could build a dual hand crossbow wielding rogue that would eat this thing for lunch
and have the exact same flavor or better
 
trogdor
trogdor
(or at least learn how the game works before you make homebrew)
@waxeagle yeah certain rogue builds work too
in fact maybe better
the point is
this concept already exists, and is better implemented
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
then you can spend less time breaking the game with poorly thought out mechanical choices and more time writing your story :)
 
trogdor
trogdor
yeah
this is pretty sad
 
Metool
Metool
3:49 AM
Yeah, poor homebrew makes me sad.
 
trogdor
trogdor
I don't want to be against homebrew,....... but this is not how you do it
and most homebrew I see is around this level of quality
especially for 4E
 
The Oracle
The Oracle
0
Q: Synonymize or retag [online] and [online-roleplaying]

EmrakulWe should synonymize or retag online + online-roleplaying -> online-roleplaying. The tag wiki for online reads: Involving play of tabletop RPGs using Internet tools such as desktop applications, web applications, chat clients, and so on. Which fits the self-description of online-roleplayi...

feature-request tag-synonyms retag-request
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
yeah. Ultimately though I see little point in making homebrew for 4e. Most of it is done to satisfy arbitrary narrative requirements that would be better dealt with through basic reflavoring
 
trogdor
trogdor
@waxeagle that's my stance on it too
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
but then I'm of the mind that there is very little reason to invent something if there already exists something that does it as well or better. And I know for a fact that this is not a popular opinion everywhere
 
trogdor
trogdor
3:52 AM
4E is a mechanical system, you can easily reflavor it
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
@trogdor yep. in fact that's in the instructions on the tin.
says quite clearly on the box: powdered RPG, just add flavor
 
trogdor
trogdor
I may or may not have read that
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@waxeagle 4e doesn't really make a big deal about refluffing though. Maybe that's part of the problem. The classes all come with heavy fluff, the "you can refluff stuff" boils down to one paragraph somewhere in a book few people read more of than necessary, and in previous editions of the game, the "fluff" was hugely mechanically important.
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
@JonathanHobbs good point. That was sort of a big paradigm shift in the design and they just sort of ignored it in the books
 
Magician
Magician
I don't actually think it's there in the books. It's just something that people have discovered on their own.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
3:57 AM
@Magician No there's definitely a paragraph that passingly says you can refluff your abilities.
It says so very explicitly, but it's only one paragraph.
 
Magician
Magician
And I'm still not sure what my attitude towards refluffing is. Basically, existing narrative of a class is a strong constraint. Class means something, being a member of the class means something, in a world with class system you should be able to look at someone and say "they're clearly a barbarian". Constraints are good for the story.
I've had a player ask me if she could be a barbarian, but really a warlock with a glaive, who would somehow use melee attacks.
 
Metool
Metool
"I added it so their unarmed strikes would be dealing fire damage, whether it actually enhances their combat ability was a secondary concern." I cry when someone says this when building in a very gamist system.
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
@JonathanHobbs was trying to actually find it the RC has it on page 93 under hte section on flavor text :)
 
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