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00:00 - 23:0023:00 - 00:00

12:57 AM
Narbonic: Director's Cut is over. [moment of stunned silence]
 
 
6 hours later…
7:13 AM
@Ethan Hi!
Not bad, not bad. What brings you here?
 
I am bored, don't want to go to sleep I am all done with finals so that is good
Are you in school?
 
@Ethan Not I, but several of us are either still attending school or are teaching.
 
@BESW Got any life goals?
 
@BESW or researching.
 
7:15 AM
What are you researching?
 
let's take this to main chat, shall we?
 
@BrianBallsun-Stanton Narbonic.
 
what is the main chat?
 
After it finished, the author re-ran it with "director's commentary" on each strip.
 
7:16 AM
nice
 
oh hi
I used to play rpg's when I was in middle school
All the way through 6th to 8th grade or so,
That was all I did
I never really had any freinds but it was ok
 
um... tabletop?
or... computer?
 
What?
On computer
 
Ah. Fair enough. Been there myself.
 
My parents got divorced, I had really bad hygene also during those years
lol
@BrianBallsun-Stanton How old are you?
 
7:19 AM
@Ethan but yeah. so you asked what I was researching. A technique to create "born digital" archaeology, integrated analysis, and archival grade repositories.
@Ethan 29.
 
@BrianBallsun-Stanton Lol, alot of terminology there
can you talk to me like I am a cave man ;d
 
@Ethan it goes with the floppy hat.
@Ethan Sure, what verbs are we allowing in today's game of Og?
 
Lol
 
@BrianBallsun-Stanton I really want to try that game some time.
 
7:20 AM
@BrianBallsun-Stanton What is your average day like?
 
@Ethan I have coffee, go to meetings, code, go to meetings, code, go to meetings.
 
@BrianBallsun-Stanton In any relationships?
 
@Ethan No further information is available here.
 
What?
 
@Ethan Your questions are getting a bit personal for someone Brian's only just met.
 
7:22 AM
If you want to know anything about me feel free to ask lol
You only live one life
Why do you care what I think
I wont judge
 
It's not a matter of uneven reciprocity, it's a matter of Strangers On The Internet.
 
:p
what?
Actually I don't have any, I just don't have very many common interests
But I can still talk to people if I need to do
 
@Ethan is everything okay, mate?
 
I suppose it depends how you define 'okay'
 
@Ethan how do you define it?
 
7:25 AM
$\neg \text{not okay}$
 
With TeX. ... you sir, are a man of Baroque interests...
What's up?
 
baroque?
I got summer break in about 4 days lol
 
ornate, overly elaborate. You responded with TeX markup to a general question. A man after my own heart.
 
;p
 
@Ethan going to uni?
 
7:27 AM
I am a junior at the moment lol probably will study mathematics or something of the like
 
@BrianBallsun-Stanton hey what kind of music do you listen to?
 
@Ethan Depends on my mood. Cruxhshadows for programming, Musicals, Celtic...
 
lol why do you talk in 3rd person on your network profile
 
Say, random question. How well have you been eating and sleeping?
 
7:30 AM
Not very good actually I slept the whole day yesterday
 
@Ethan Because that's my bio, and bios are written in 3rd person. It reads better when printed in various places.
::nod::
@Ethan ::nod:: are you eating well?
 
I have very bad eating habbits, some days I will eat a single meal others I will eat everything at 1 am
 
like chips
and microwaveble stuff
 
@Ethan ::nod::
 
7:32 AM
Thats all I can make :p
 
Ethan, I'm sorry I have to ask this. Do you plan to injure yourself?
 
What do you mean, like end my own life?
 
@Ethan Among other things.
::listens::
 
lol
No
 
7:35 AM
I am trying to think of a reason why though
 
@Ethan What do you mean?
 
I mean, I don't know why I chose to live, I just do
Let me think of some rationalization as to why
I am not religous
Are you?
I enjoy different aspects of life, and I don't think I will be able to enjoy them if I am dead
 
Not particularly.
::nod::
 
Though I don't think I would be able to feel anything if I was dead, so that really doesn't make any sense...
 
@Ethan ::nod::
 
7:38 AM
@BrianBallsun-Stanton youtube.com/…
 
I like rob dougan
;d
 
the music is good.
The imagry is... rough.
 
There are some things I want to do with my life, I want to go to a concert, maybe get in a relationship, learn some formal logic and set theory and combinatorics
 
@Ethan ::nod::
 
7:41 AM
I read a book on number theory by silverman, lol he quotes poetry every other chapter fairly annoying
 
@Ethan poetry... has some interesting analytics to it, actually
Have you read Rainbows End by Vinge?
 
sci fi?
 
yes, but relating to both of the topics you brought up
 
I have trouble reading because of my ocd, I usually re-read things alot
 
::nod:: Listening?
 
7:44 AM
See any good movies lately? I saw the pursuit of happiness because I had a sub for my history class
 
I'd love to hear your reactions to Rainbows End or Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality. I ... suspect you'd identify strongly with both books.
 
I didn't like the end
Nothing happened..
It was like ok... he got the job now what
 
@Ethan not really
 
oh well
@BrianBallsun-Stanton I also saw 'the tree of life'
I couldn't really connect with it, found it boreing
 
mmmm... HP:MoR the audiobook ... if you're ever sufficiently bored.
on the other hand, if you want to engage in other activites, I suspect you might find RPGs quite engaging.
 
7:46 AM
@BrianBallsun-Stanton thanks, Il copy it on a notepad lol I will have a pretty empty summer break prolly
 
@Ethan it's ... probably 40 hours worth of audiobook, at present. So plenty to listen to :)
 
Brian ever been to california?
 
On the other hand, RPGs, table top RPGs (the kind we play here) are ... quite a good way of passing the time, and learning patterns of social interaction.
@Ethan To my regret, I grew up there.
It's a vile place.
 
@BrianBallsun-Stanton I wouldn't know its where I have lived my whole life
 
::nod::
what part of cali?
 
7:48 AM
I would like to travel maybe
here
 
sorry?
I'd love to hear your feedback on either.
And in terms of making your summer less boring, I'm sure we can help you to find some play by post games (ones that fit your interests) and help out with rules questions.
 
@BrianBallsun-Stanton Its ok, I will probably study up on some logic and set theory I am finding interest in combinatorics, so I think these will be helpful tools
 
@Ethan Sure, but there may be more to life than just logic. (Though, as a philosopher, I certainly agree that it's important.)
 
@BrianBallsun-Stanton My life is about a 5th over, assuming I live to 85 ;p
 
@BrianBallsun-Stanton [citation needed]
 
7:52 AM
@Ethan Bad assumption, actually.
@BESW [Are you sure?]
 
@BrianBallsun-Stanton Why do you say that?
 
I can link to the SEP...
 
@BrianBallsun-Stanton Not at all!
 
@BrianBallsun-Stanton What do you think I should do with my life?
 
@Ethan Well, there are some fascinating discussions going on right now on the nature of aging, and the rate of average time-till-death growing. It's decently close to one second per second...
well, growing decently close, that is.
@Ethan That's... a good question.
What level of response would you like?
 
7:54 AM
@BrianBallsun-Stanton What does level mean in this context
 
@Ethan degree of complexity.
 
I would like to get a girlfriend or somthing, I here relationships can be enjoyable experiences, although I worry I would have to sacrifice large portions of time from doing other things I enjoy doing
 
I can discuss Mazlow's hierarchy of needs, I can go into various ethical systems or ways of calculating maximal utility, I can emulate (from the surface anyway) a number of philosophers who could make various and sundry arguments...
@Ethan ::nod::
northern or southern cali?
 
Los Angles california
 
... I am truely sorry.
what part of LA? The valley?
::nod::
I went to school in santa monica, west LA.
 
7:58 AM
I went there when I was a child, I had my 4th or 5th birthday party at the santa monica aquarium
When I was younger I wanted to be a marine biologist or somthing
 
In terms of your approach to life, I ... mmm, I'm going to recommend the rationality community in northern cali.
 
My mom got me these national geographic videos on sharks and stuff
lol
 
@Ethan So did I! Well into highschool, even.
 
if you're that good at pure math, I suspect you'd have a nice time at Berkeley
 
I still find that sort of stuff fascinating
 
7:59 AM
So if I was asked, "what should I do with my life?" I'd point at those. While there are other philosophies than Rationality, I suspect that it would most appeal to you.
Since you're a cali native, I would say read the sequences, get involved in that community, and celebrate pure maths.
 
@BrianBallsun-Stanton It just happened that I started studying pure mathematics first lol, I am trying to get a feel for other stuff though
 
Of course, I'm not you, though I can identify with all too many aspects of your life.
 
I'm envious. I love maths on a conceptual level, but I can never get the numbers right.
 
@Ethan so yeah, read them. We're here to help, and if it gets beyond us, I can refer you to other sources.
 
I also think biology might be interesting, the orgin of life and what not
 
8:02 AM
also, in-person RPGs are really really really good ways of learning social interactions
 
@Ethan Math does seem to turn into philosophy when you poke it with a stick.
 
and we're here to help with those, too.
 
@BESW Some of the logic stuff lol
 
@BrianBallsun-Stanton Specify "tabletop" RPGs. MMOs... not so much.
 
@BESW granted
 
8:03 AM
Whats a tabletop game?
 
@Ethan I'm glad you asked. Before computers were... things, people simulated games on... well, the tops of tables
 
Its 1:03 am here though no worries, my teachers are all probably showing movies sense its the last few days of school
 
in those days, they were mostly strategic war battles, but people became invested in the stories of the people dying by their command.
 
@BrianBallsun-Stanton fantasy oriented games?
 
And so, role-playing games were invented to tell those stories.
@Ethan They can be, they certainly don't have to be.
Any genre you can name, there's a game that can, at the very least, handle it.
Any. Single. Genre.
Mind you, some genres are more fun to play in than others.
 
8:05 AM
Yeah, the Richard Cory RPG would be pretty lousy.
 
And yes, I used RPGs to figure out this whole 'interpersonal interaction" thing.
@BESW GURPS or FATE for that one? :)
@Ethan in any event, we'll be here. @BESW and I are on australia time.
 
@BrianBallsun-Stanton I knew you secretly roll d20 in your head when you speak.
 
@BrianBallsun-Stanton what time is it there?
 
@Magician hah!
@Ethan 18:06
 
is that military time
what do you mean?
 
8:07 AM
6 pm
 
18 modulo 12
;p
 
@BrianBallsun-Stanton Hey, we're officially the Chamorro Time Zone.
 
@BESW you might be. We're Australian Eastern Standard Time
@Ethan ayep
 
loll'
 
8:09 AM
mildly amusing, but not appropriate, mate.
 
sorry if that was offensive they have ones for conan and linkin etc
lol
 
@Ethan No worries, we generally discourage pictures here.
 
For future reference, this is a public chat that gets logged by Google's search engine, and we have people with lots of different ages/locations/opinions, so we try to keep things relatively upright here.
 
Yes I know, I get advertisements for stuff I type in chat cause of web crawlers
 
It's nice when everyone works together to make sure everyone feels comfortable. I hope it's good for you, too.
 
8:12 AM
I don't understand whats good for me
 
@Ethan Ah! I can help with that
Luminosity has actually helped me.
but yeah, mate. Get some rest, come back tomorrow, we'll likely be here.
 
Yes, indeed.
 
If you need some ideas on what to cook, I'm sure we can help there, too.
 
I can put stuff in the microwave, and take it out when it feels warm
 
... yes. And we can improve upon those skills :)
 
8:14 AM
lol
 
[grin] I cook for my family, and it's amazing what you can do with some simple ingredients without a lot of fuss.
 
Just like everything else, it requires feedback and practice.
And we're here to help. And if we can't help, we've got a huge network of specialists who can.
 
what do you mean?
 
:9720567 No, I live with my parents so I can help take care of my dad.
 
8:16 AM
I live with my mom
 
That seems reasonable.
You really should be going to bed now, though. I say this as someone who recently developed a pitiable sleep pattern himself.
 
good night all
 
Regularized sleep patterns make everything seem better.
G'night! ttfn
 
@Ethan Cheers mate. Come back to us :)
@BESW +1
 
8:30 AM
ugh. Bouncing a VM to try to perfect an install script. My life is... bliss...
 
9:17 AM
2
Q: What can I do with Spirit Magic?

Chris CI have a player who wants to take Spirit evocation, as an idea, but neither of us are sure practically on what sort of spells it would let him evoke. What does Spirit Magic let my player's character do? Are there examples? We're playing a very investigative game, and both combat and non-combat ...

Is this question OK now?
 
9:38 AM
Yes, that looks better.
 
 
1 hour later…
10:43 AM
The Married Folks club dance was not held last night owing to failure of the married folks to show up. UT1899
 
According to many of the rising generation, a young man should learn to despise religion, dress like a dude, and wear pointed shoes. LA1885
 
I know what I'm doing wrong!
 
I don't know exactly what they meant by "dress like a dude" but this could equally have been written yesterday (by someone with an old fashioned use of language).
(well, with the "despise religion" thing possibly being an exaggeration)
 
I think dude = cowboy.
 
Nonono
"Dude is an old term, recognized by multiple generations although potentially with slightly different meanings.[2] From the 1870s to the 1960s, dude primarily meant a person who dressed in an extremely fashion-forward manner (a dandy) or a citified person who was visiting a rural location but stuck out (a city slicker). "
 
10:54 AM
Oh, right.
I encountered it in the context of city boys trying to dress like cowboys and failing miserably.
I think the modern equivalent is fluorescent camo capris.
 
11:15 AM
@BESW is there a good link describing fate fractal?
 
Hmmm.
Maybe On Fire?
Worth mentioning that aspects have changed a bit over the years, gaining more passive effects.
 
Cool, thanks
 
In DRFPG, aspects don't have effect unless they're invoked/compelled.
In Core, aspects can create effects simply by existing.
Gonna restart my comp and install some updates.
 
11:31 AM
y'know, sometime a for loop is really what's needed, and trying to get SQL to fake it is just... no.
 
11:44 AM
magbonch.wordpress.com/2013/06/03/first-impressions-marvel Because it's been way too long since I wrote something
2
 
 
1 hour later…
12:49 PM
Um. I do believe Fred Hicks (of Fate/Evil Hat) has just commented on that post. I think that means I made it as a blogger?..
 
1:03 PM
@Magician Grats!
 
1:22 PM
@BESW Thanks :)
 
That's what you get for directly linking to his blog
 
 
2 hours later…
3:02 PM
@MaxPower Code review is partly for that, but I think that's mainly for code quality, like "what can i improve?"
 
Oh...
 
You may want to bring it up on a discussion board somewhere
 
As in a forum of some sort?
 
Yes
Or take your chances on Stack Overflow. What technology are you dealing with?
 
Python
I don't think SO is a good place to submit code and ask people "what's wrong with it?"
 
3:04 PM
No it normally isn't unless you can go "Here I have this very specific little thing, what's going on here?"
And show that you've done a decent amount of research, have debugged, etc.
Have you debugged?
 
yeah
i did
well i appreciate your help
i'll think about it
probably gotta do some more research
Thanks though
 
There are lots of Python boards
Python.org might link to some
 
alright
thank you, ill be off for now.
 
See you. Good luck!
 
Thanks!
 
3:19 PM
@ShaunGillies Hi!
 
 
4 hours later…
6:55 PM
perks up
Did somebody say python?
 
 
3 hours later…
10:20 PM
I also need to put some thought into what I might use for my game group, if I can talk them into trying out Fate.
 
Yeah? What do you usually play?
 
We initially got together to play D&D4, and we go back to it occasionally. Had a good Shadowrun4 campaign and a fun but short Champions6 stint. I talked them into trying Fiasco a couple times, but only about 2/3 of them like it, and one or two hate it.
 
What makes them happy?
 
Arguing. ;)
One guy seems to like doing off-beat, wacky, character-driven stuff. I think he's the easiest sell for Fate. (There's another gal who is similar, but she hasn't played with us in ages.)
That's Alan. I haven't played RPGs with Tony yet, just board games, and all I know about him is that he runs a Seven Seas campaign and has a raunchy sense of humor.
I don't have a good feel for Danhiel either. He's really easy-going though and would probably go along with whatever the group decides.
Tarisa is a very, very casual player. She often watches instead of actually playing. In Shadowrun, she was very happy playing a physical adept modeled loosely after Hit Girl from Kick-Ass. We'd basically get her attention when it was her turn, and then she would cut bad guys into little pieces.
So, typical RPG newbie.
 
Heh.
I'm increasingly learning that my RPG experiences are very atypical overall.
 
10:34 PM
Mike is the tough sell. He likes games with lots of moving parts and crunch. As a GM, he's at the extreme end of the tactical, GM vs players end of the spectrum. He only likes games with clear objectives and victory conditions. He thinks a strategy game isn't worth playing if it takes less than a couple hours to finish.
 
@Problematic cannot resist
 
But he's a reasonable team player, and he will also go along with group consensus if they want to try it. We can occasionally talk him into playing party games like Cards Against Humanity where the points don't matter, but he doesn't enjoy it.
@BESW I have found that most RPG newbies like kicking ass and taking names, especially new female players. Dunno whether my experience is actually typical, but that's typical for me.
 
rpg.se chat is giving me the sense that nothing is "typical".
 
@BESW was it running a play-by-chat storytelling game for a dozen strangers scattered across the planet that tipped you off?
 
The vast majority of female newbies in particular have either gone for “I kill it to death with a big sword and a little magic” or “I turn into a bear and kill it to death”
 
10:38 PM
@Problematic No, it was all the "OMG my players suuuuuuuck" questions.
 
@BESW ... I ...
 
Or sometimes in between: “I am a pixie and I jump from the shadows to kill it to death with my tiny sword”
I'm working from an admittedly small sample size, about half a dozen players.
 
@BESW I guess I always just ran the games that my players wanted. Murderhoboes indeed
 
I love the question about “murderous cretins”
132
Q: How do I get my PCs to not be a bunch of murderous cretins?

mxyzplkMost RPGs teach you that casual violence is the best solution to all your in-game problems. This is so well established a part of the vast majority of RPGs that there are entire satire RPGs like Greg Costikyan's Violence and John Tynes' Power Kill dedicated to showcasing the issue. In most RPGs, ...

 
@BraddSzonye Fair enough. I... hrm. I'd have to take a minute and sort out "female players" as a category; it's not how I think of them categorically.
 
10:40 PM
My personal experience is that the game doesn't teach them to become murderous cretins. Most of them start out that way.
 
@BraddSzonye there's a meta post trolling on the use of the word "cretin" somewhere
-7
Q: Should this site condone terms derogating an individual's characteristics?

ExTSRI have objected to the use of the term "cretin" at rpg.stackechange.com and my objections have been arbitrarily dismissed. Two site moderators (mxyzplk and AceCalhoun) have endorsed the use of the term. Mxyzplk claimed that "there is no Official StackExchange Policy" and added a derogatory Commen...

Found it!
 
@Problematic And I've considered RPGs to be an exercise in environmental conditioning and the social contract from day one...
 
I channeled @BESW's google-fu
 
@BESW I don't tend to distinguish female players as a group, partly because of my experiences. Lots of folks stereotype them as being all about the social elements of the game, but I've found them to be at least as murderous as the boys.
 
@Problematic [innocent whistling]
 
10:42 PM
@Problematic Wow, that's a bizarre troll.
(And it immediately reminded me of “spaz” which I then saw in the first posted answer)
 
@BraddSzonye D&D in particular, and a lot of games inspired by its engine and ethos, do teach and encourage a murderhobo culture.
I wouldn't be surprised if people come into it expecting that, but the engines are there for reinforcing the behavior.
 
I think the game may be emulating source material there (with some exaggeration) rather than initiating it
Like, action movies and pulp fiction are full of it
And the new players go straight for it. Not many of them actually read the rulebooks.
 
Aye, but the system mechanically supports it, and actively discourages other playstyles.
@BraddSzonye That really doesn't matter.
 
There's a bit of “if all you have is a hammer” to it
 
If you hand them a character sheet that contains at best a half-dozen social skills, and the entire rest of the two-plus-page sheet is about combat, "fight things" is what they'll do.
 
10:47 PM
I don't really get the “actively discouraging” though
 
@BraddSzonye XP and material rewards are what drive the game forward.
In most systems, those are awarded most prolifically and sometimes only through combat.
Social solutions are discouraged through minimal coverage, dissatisfying systems, and inappropriate goblin dice.
 
Killing dudes has never been the sole source of XP in D&D, though.
In old-school, problem solving was about half of it (with the actual mechanics based on how much gold you got from it)
 
And unless the GM is really actively working to change it, killing things is the best and most efficient means of ending a threat: the GM is encouraged through the DMG and the narrative source material to make any enemy allowed to live into a recurring threat.
 
And new D&D makes it so that killing isn't necessary for the combat half of XP. Good point about how recurring villains can subvert that, though.
 
@BraddSzonye What kind of problem solving, though? From what I've seen, it's always been about "you and the problem, in a cave, far from anyone who would care."
 
10:51 PM
Done poorly, it makes certain players paranoid.
Old-school D&D is full of puzzles.
The three basic elements of old-school D&D are: killing things and taking their stuff (heavy rules), solving puzzles (looser rules), and role-playing (doesn't need rules) – note, that's how I interpret the game design, not how I think RPGs should work.
When they started introducing rules for role-playing challenges, they were often useless because so many people had bought into the idea that you don't use rules for that, you use your judgment and role-playing skill.
 
Mhm. That's what I mean about discouraging other gamestyles: the further you get from murderhoboism, the less the rules support it. Which means that not being a murderhobo means not doing the things you spent time and effort designing your character to be good at, and equipping him for as he levels up.
 
So it often came down to: If you can convince the GM of something, you get a bonus that makes the skill trivial. If you can't, you get a penalty that makes it pointless.
I would agree that it discourages game styles for some people
But there's a spectrum of styles, and at the opposite end are folks who think it's the most important part of the game, but that you shouldn't use mechanics for it.
 
I spent about eight years trying to un-murderhobo D&D 3.5, and the extent that it worked was the extent to which my players were willing to not play D&D with D&D characters. We had to ignore and often actively alter the rules.
 
Cat
I think it's better to take DnD in the Pirates of the Carribbean sense.
 
If you have to decide to not use the provided mechanics in order to achieve a playstyle, I'd say the mechanics discourage the playstyle.
 
Cat
10:57 PM
They're more like "guidelines"
 
@BESW That's an accurate but biased way of describing it.
 
Cat
But I have to run off for a date with my bf now. Sorry to miss a fun conversation.
 
Enjoy!
Many role-players really, really hate mechanics in their role-playing
 
IE, D&D does provide rules for, say, social interaction. But hinging the king's favor on a single d20 roll is not a good rule if you want social interaction to be a major part of the game.
@BraddSzonye I'd argue that's because games like D&D have really BAD mechanics for it.
 
Before D&D3, it had practically no mechanics for it
 
10:59 PM
And if the engine doesn't speak to a playstyle, I can't really see it as anything other than discouraging to that playstyle.
 
That part of the game was freeform.
 
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