Vyxal

Underslash

00:49

am i losing it?
do lambdas auto-eval?

lyxal

Yes

Underslash

lyxal

It's a new feature

Underslash

oh

why?

lyxal

Only when printing

Underslash

00:50

so that it doesn't print lambda:13269762369712396713879giasuigd8792q78etqyg v8hegt2?

lyxal

01:02

Yep

Underslash

so when does it not return 0?

does it return the last pushed value?

lyxal

Correct

lyxal

01:32

@Underslash actually that's a big with implicit input and lambdas

Underslash

@lyxal a big problem?

user

Idea: Use scala or kotlin instead of Python. I see no way in which this could inconvenience people or set back work on vyxal

lyxal

@Underslash it's not that big

Underslash

im so confused lol

lyxal

Don't be

Just know that lambdas don't exactly play nice with implicit input at the moment

Underslash

01:39

ooh

thats what you mean

lyxal

Correct

Underslash

oh thats weird
i have: `?λ1|n;`and the input is 26, so it prints 26

but when I tack on a , it prints 0

lyxal

Of course, it works with explicit input

@Underslash oh

Uh

That's not expected behaviour

Underslash

yeah thats what I figured

lyxal

03:12

@hyper-neutrino codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/23537/…

Do you think that's accurate?

Also, @pxeger, how long would you say the code clean up would take?

A day? A few days? A week?

Asking because a time estimate would help chose a starting day

For example, if it would only take a day or two, the halting of production could start now

But if it would take longer, we'd probably have to wait a week for the recent version to stabilise a bit

Razetime

@lyxal timwi, creator of the IDE made that

lyxal

@Razetime what?

The link goes to a comment on the vyxal community ad

Razetime

hm it centered on the esoteric ide ad

lyxal

Razetime

ppain

lyxal

05:16

@hyper-neutrino @Razetime how's this for the community ad?

Razetime

good

hyper-neutrino

much better

lyxal

The background is darker, the contrast it better, and it looks a tiny bit cleaner

PyGamer0

05:36

@lyxal have you considered rewriting vyxal in C

or C++

hyper-neutrino

why would you do that to yourself

lyxal

Vyxal is staying in Python for the time being

time being = indefinitely

if I was to migrate to another language, it'd be a dynamically typed language

PyGamer0

@hyper-neutrino why not

@lyxal then rewrite it in LUA

hyper-neutrino

alternatively

no

PyGamer0

hmm why doesnt anyone want to rewrite their projects in C

hyper-neutrino

05:42

C is for masochists

PyGamer0

> masochists

what is that

hyper-neutrino

> A willingness or tendency to subject oneself to unpleasant or trying experiences.

there's a slightly more NSFW definition too

Underslash

06:50

@lyxal That looks really good, but what is the code actually supposed to do?

also, something is broke with the online interpreter
if you have code, then comment it out, if you implicitly output implicit input, it uses the commented out code's result instead

lyxal

07:28

@Underslash that looks like an issue with the v2.5.x+ parser

Jul 4 at 23:54, by lyxal

Because the lambda is hyper, the 42 is AMiller42, there's a (was)if statement, kN is the (raze)time and username is you and A Username

If anyone has a better code snippet for the community ad, feel free to share it here

Underslash

what exactly is the string snippet?

lyxal

It's a compressed string

Underslash

ooooooohhh

y'know

you would think I would know this by now lol

I was looking at other snippets, but in terms of syntax elements + the references, I think it works really well

lyxal

λ42=[kN|`ʁβ`

Try it Online!

lyxal

07:51

Version 2.5.2

3

Underslash

were comments just not comments?

lyxal

the parser wasn't looking for them properly

Underslash

thats kinda funny

lyxal

@Underslash what was happening was that if # was followed by a newline, it'd run forever.

because a) I had the condition wrong and b) I wasn't moving to the next character

Underslash

that'll do it

generally moving from one character to another is good when parsing ;)

lyxal

07:54

hmm

I know

especially when you're using a while loop + continue

Underslash

while True:
pass

lyxal

there's a v2.5.x+ related bug tag for a reason

math

@lyxal btw the cache problem I had is fixed now

lyxal

@math good

@pxeger When do you suggest the cleanup start?

math

There was some poll

pxeger

07:57

@lyxal user posted a strawpoll

math

strawpoll.com/974ygod5h/r

pxeger

strawpoll.com/974ygod5h

math

first

lyxal

also, marcobelo.medium.com/…

Underslash

so is the code cleanup just a refactoring of everything to make it not spaghetti?

lyxal

07:59

github.com/Vyxal/Vyxal/projects/2

Underslash

@lyxal thanks

Razetime

@Underslash it shouldn't be too spaghettified knowing lyxal

refactoring in the sense of making it maintainable by anyone

Underslash

yeah thats def a good idea

what are people working on rn that would need to be finished before the cleanup could occur?

Razetime

idk tbh

i'm not part of the cleanup side

pxeger wants some bytecode thing

and the main task looks like running black on the whole thing\

pxeger

and also refactoring into multiple files

Underslash

08:03

@pxeger do yall have any idea how its going to be split up right now?

lyxal

@Razetime that's easy

pxeger

I do, in my head...

Razetime

maybe just decide right now

lyxal

just use VS Code

@Razetime ^

Razetime

python mode also uses black so /shrug

Underslash

08:03

couldn't you also do something with github actions to automatically run it on it when pushing?

pxeger

yes, I've put that on the project

lyxal

I set up VS Code to autoformat with black on saving

y'all should do the same

pxeger

BTW, what line length did you run Black with? The default (88)?

Underslash

imagine not using the chad atom lol

lyxal

@pxeger yeah, the default

@Underslash I used to

but then I switched away

Underslash

08:05

im assuming for larger projects / where stuff had to compile?

lyxal

no

Underslash

what for then?

lyxal

I just switched because Atom stopped working

and because VS code is actually cooler

@pxeger if I format with black, does that mean that flake8 will mostly be happy?

Razetime

vs code is straight up better and effectively maintained by the same company now

Underslash

@lyxal maybe, but how did it stop working?

lyxal

08:06

@Underslash I don't know. Something about javascript

pxeger

@lyxal it will complain about things that are bad practice but that can't be fixed automatically with tools like Black

e.g., using eval everywhere cough

Underslash

what are some of the pros of using vs code versus atom?

lyxal

@Underslash can Atom be set to auto-format your code upon saving it?

Underslash

I'd imagine theres a package for that tbh

lyxal

@pxeger what's the overall plan for the clean-up?

math

08:11

@lyxal is it normal to have a red no in the local version of flask?

lyxal

Yes

hyper-neutrino

yes

that is the george webring

lyxal

That's the George part

Ninjad

math

which george?

pxeger

@lyxal Initially I/someone would run all the autoformatters on the code and refactor it while noone else was working on it (to prevent merge conflicts), and then incrementally fix minor issues like adding type hints, fixing lintier complaints, improving comments/documentation

But you've already run black on everything lol so...

lyxal

08:12

@pxeger but we're still pausing work though

Because the refactoring still needs doing

Black was the easy part. The comments and static types and documentation is the hard part

pxeger

ok well I'm working on that now

@lyxal if we add those one or a few at a time in individual commits then merge conflicts should be manageable

Underslash

why are the first 100 factorial pre-compiled?

does it really make that much of a difference

pxeger

it's by far the fastest way to do it

lyxal

Probably not

(because people probably don't use factorials that large)

But yes, it is more efficient

Underslash

I mean, even with large factorials, they should take like microseconds to calculate

hyper-neutrino

08:15

tio.run/##K6gsycjPM/7/…

math.factorial takes like

0.031s real time for the first 100

pxeger

@lyxal hopefully a couple hours

hyper-neutrino

tio.run/…

sympy takes about the same

pxeger

but realistically about a day

Underslash

@hyper-neutrino so does the first 1000

and then when you switch to 10000 it stalls

pxeger

because they're likely cached in CPython

hyper-neutrino

08:18

mhm

pxeger

github.com/python/cpython/blob/…

it also uses some fancy divide-and-conquer algorithm for computing them

Underslash

doing the factorials manually take fractions of a second on idle on my machine using the most simple factorial approach

like, im not sure it really saves time vs just not having a large cached table there

anything below a 1000 is very fast to calculate, so having the first 100 makes little difference

lyxal

@pxeger just make sure you only do as much as you want to do. And leave some stuff for me!

pxeger

lol :)

math

@pxeger what's with html?

pxeger

08:29

I don't know, what is??

math

@pxeger cleaning up. are you going to do that too?

pxeger

oh

maybe

math

but then black can't do it

pxeger

we'd use Prettier or something to do HTML

if I were in charge of Vyxal I'd ditch the online interpreter entirely and put it on ATO, tbh, so I'm not that bothered

@lyxal make sure you use isort --profile black to get them to agree

math

09:38

In vyxal, where are all the constants defined?

except command.py

I see only functions in Vyxal.py

Razetime

@math github.com/Vyxal/Vyxal/blob/master/commands.py#L493

math

no, but there it's not actually defined, is it?

I thought it was for debugging

Razetime

nope it's definitely defined there

quite obviosu why it's done that way

math

ok

Razetime

it's parsed into an ast and then the transpilation is done by lookup into the commands

lyxal

11:34

@Ausername I may or may not have done a tiny bit of sandbox sniping

I mean, I got it working pretty quickly anyway, so it doesn't really matter ;p

A username

@lyxal Oh

Btw 16

lyxal

that's 18 though

that's the same link

A username

Is it? Oops

Well 15

lyxal

what an epic gamer

A username

14

Beating osabie woohoo!

Dammit

13

lyxal

11:50

@Ausername what.

how?

how are you so epic?

A username

Magic

And the experience of ~150 Vyxal answers

Why user?

lyxal

because we have a culture of rickrolling here

A username

They really shouldn't've made it multiple-choice

lyxal

yeah

you're probably right

hehe I got 12

A username

Oh nice

@user Hi

user

11:56

@Ausername Why not?

I figured itd be better in case people want to vote on a range of days

A username

Ok...

user

@Ausername also, hi

@Ausername :)

A username

But it's ztatic

r is only a byte longer

'night

Aaron Miller

12:50

@lyxal Why do the backticks look different from each other?

lyxal

I honestly don't know why

Aaron Miller

Is this broken for anyone else?

lyxal

@pxeger how do I set up the Vyxal package?

I tried pip install --upgrade --user .

but it didn't work

pxeger

you don't need to do anything, you should just be able to do (from the root of the repo) import vyxal.interpreter

lyxal

13:06

So then how do I run the repo?

*Repl

pxeger

the Python repl?

lyxal

no

the Vyxal repl

pxeger

I didn't even know vyxal had a repl lol

lyxal

previously, running Vyxal.py let you use it as a repl

pxeger

but

python -m vyxal.interpreter

lyxal

13:09

oh

very nice

thank you

pxeger

btw I think Vyxal should move away from auto-installing a whole load of pip packages as soon as you start the interpreter

lyxal

it didn't use to - it only did it if they weren't installed

pxeger

even that's pretty narsty though

Aaron Miller

Is the online interpreter being really slow for anyone else?

lyxal

@AaronMiller yes

not even the webhooks can connect

pxeger

13:16

do you know why?

lyxal

no

it just says "We couldn’t deliver this payload: failed to connect"

hyper-neutrino

F

Aaron Miller

I think it's with pythonanywhere, because the Grok and brainbox interpreters are really slow too

lyxal

yeah

I saw that pythonanywhere was taking a while to load

pxeger

even pythonanywhere's homepage is very slow

lyxal

13:17

^

when I first tried to get to the dashboard, it wouldn't connect

@AaronMiller but that was still a bug though

well, while PythonAnywhere is on fire, I think I'll go sleep

maybe when I wake up, it will have fixed itself

pxeger

famous last words

lyxal

o/

pxeger

\o

Aaron Miller

the l flag doesn't work on numbers

According to the PythonAnywhere twitter, it looks like they're getting DDoS'd at the moment

So that would explain the slowness

pxeger

yoikes

hyper-neutrino

13:23

bruh

user

14:53

@AaronMiller No, what's happening to you?

Is everyone fine with starting the code cleanup roughly around July 16?

Aaron Miller

@user It looks like lyxal fixed it.

2 hours ago, by lyxal

@AaronMiller but that was still a bug though

hyper-neutrino

vyxal is now a tag on the main site!

6

user

Nice!

hyper-neutrino

@lyxal ^. feel free to edit the tag wiki to make it more descriptive if you want to add things about the language or whatever

user

@AaronMiller Oh good

Aaron Miller

15:04

@hyper-neutrino noice

user

Just submitted a tag wiki edit, someone please review it

hyper-neutrino

both have been approved

user

:)

Aaron Miller

16:05

Idea: "^<>Vyxal", a 2D version of Vyxal.

hyper-neutrino

V>XA<

looks very vaguely like Vyxal

and V is down, > is right, A is up, < is left, and X is all four directions

Aaron Miller

+1

user

16:24

VYXAL seems kinda like it would fit with a 2d language

user

16:42

Oh wait, y'all started on the code cleanup without me already? :/

math

17:43

Could I help with the comments btw?

I love comments

user

Sure, go ahead

math

Okay, so in the main branch?

Or is there a different branch for the cleanup?

math

19:03

@AaronMiller What's a 2D language?

hyper-neutrino

a language where the code forms a 2D structure (pretty much always just a grid) where the code being run depends on the character under the instruction pointer (IP) and the IP can move around that grid

Aaron Miller

@math Befunge is considered the first general-purpose 2D language, if you want to check it out. You can also check out Grok and brainbox, which are a couple of 2D languages I've made.

lyxal

23:30

@math if you're that much of a masochist then sure :p

@user yes

user

Aight great

lyxal

All I've done so far is install the black plugin for VS Code

And now it automatically formats my code every time I save it

user

It's beautiful, isn't it?

lyxal

Is the fizzbuzz issue in #140 fixed? Or does the pr need a bit of work before merging?

user

It's not, unfortunately, lemme work on it a bit

I have a feeling it's one of the imports messing something up

Transcript for