"natural greed" - [Citation needed] - you'll need to demonstrate that greed is 'natural' and not a socially acquired/learned behavior.

@AdrianColomitchi You've never observed toddlers, have you? Or dealt with anxious puppies? Even in puppies, lack of food can cause aggression until you train it out of them.(citation, working and volunteering in an animal shelter)

@PaulTIKI-MonicacomeHome I don't know about you, but I'm not putting aggressiveness due to lack of food against greed, but against survival. Greed is a term I'd use for somebody who wants more even when the one has what it needs to live.

@AdrianColomitchi for the love of the gods. Humanity as a whole has a lot of greedy bastards in it...unless they have all died during the war their greed will factor in to the reasons of conflict after the end, especially if they are in any position of power...if it is because they are natural born greedy or if they are greedy because they learned this behavior is completely irrelevant...

@AdrianColomitchi They already have more than they need to survive, and yet will still fight for more. Also, "greed" is an emotionally charged word as it denotes a moral failing. In the case of dogs, obviously there is no moral failing, but you still see the behavior. Hell, if you care to look, you see the same exact mechanism everywhere. Territoriality in all kinds of predators. Even in plants! Taller plants will grow and crowd out and kill other neighboring plants for the resources of sun or water. In the end, humans are animals.

@A.bakker Humanity as a whole has a lot of greedy bastards in it... it just happens that humans are the only species one can speak about a culture. if it is because they are natural born greedy or if they are greedy because they learned this behavior is completely irrelevant... Yes, I know, pedantry is one of my many defects.

@AdrianColomitchi If greed has to be trained into people, where did it come from in the first place?

@Jedediah if reading has to be trained into people, where did it come from in the first place? What about speech?

@AdrianColomitchi Twin babies will start creating a language between themselves, or so I've heard. Language will start out primitive, but it arises spontaneously among humans. And a small child exposed to anything like language will begin to acquire it. You might say it's part of human nature...

@Jedediah Ok, now address the reading.

@AdrianColomitchi Why? Because wheels are invented, greed has to be taught? Because microchips don't show up in every culture, greed is a learned behavior? Walking is a learned behavior, but we call it natural, and part of human nature, because a physically and mentally typical child will figure it out independently.

@Jedediah Because wheels are invented, greed has to be taught? exactly my counter-point to your If greed has to be trained into people, where did it come from in the first place?, which is as irrelevant to establishing whether or not greed is "natural" or "cultural" as "reading" or "the wheel".

"Irradiated hellhole" is complete nonsense. Aftereffects of nuclear winter, sure, but the effects of radiation have been greatly exaggerated. Note that Hiroshima and Nagasaki are thriving cities, and the Chernobyl "dead zone" is a nature reserve that's one of the ecologically healthiest places in Europe.

@AdrianColomitchi Greed is a byproduct of survival instincts. I want food, I want shelter, I need to stockpile more, etc. If you aren't greedy you don't survive evolutionarily. Every animal has it, not just humans. Even eusocial animals like ants, bees, and naked mole rats are greedy and constantly try to cheat the system. If anything it's selflessness that's the learned behavior, given it's much less common.

@user2352714 May be so. But it takes (some) humans to go beyond the natural limits

@AdrianColomitchi If greed arises from individuals, like walking, it's perfectly reasonable to call it natural. If it's a human invention, like writing, then someone, sometime invented it. But it's absurd to suggest that, say, before 2376 BC, when Oggina had the idea to encourage her husband to take more than their family's share from the tribal stores, nobody was greedy. That's MY point.

@Jedediah If it's a human invention, like writing, then someone, sometime invented it. Improper to say "someone, sometime invented it" It would be pretty much like saying "someone, sometime invented the English language".

@AdrianColomitchi Greed is hardly as complex or unique as a specific ("natural") language like English. And you can trace some specific words back to particular people. But if greed is so easy to create that society is not necessary, it just naturally arises with individuals, your original comment is silly. My request for the origin of greed is indeed absurd. That's the point. Only if someone were suggesting that greed is much more of a "socially acquired/learned behavior" than walking would a request for the origin of greed make sense.

Can you guys take this to a conversation? Comments aren't meant for this type of discussion.

@Jedediah I think you underestimate the greed's level of sophistication. Just think of the years of study to acquire the "greed specialist" MBA diploma today. (and that's my last on the topic)

@AdrianColomitchi Oh, are you one of those people who never took real business classes, so you imagine that business decisions are based on greed, and not on actual constraints? The sort who assumes others motives are bad if you can't personally think of a charitable interpretation of their actions? (I hadn't thought of that possibility until your targeted namecalling.)

@AdrianColomitchi It's not just a human thing. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surplus_killing Most animals will wipe out their own food source without external controls. It's an intrinsic property of life's desire to survive and multiply, combined with how brains of animals in general are wired to reward short-term gratification (plants are just as bad) and how long-lived species like humans tend to hoard resources for lean periods. It's bad but characterizing it as unnatural and a human-only thing is inaccurate and misrepresents reality.

@user2352714 Point conceded - I saw compelling arguments and citations. However, I still maintain that the evolved manifestations of greed that (some?) humans display have a strong cultural component (i.e. human greed is no longer just natural)