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12:00 AM
I'd say Corey's focus on the physical ethnic markers he thinks his contemporary readers care about, alongside discussions of differences the characters care about, is an attempt to discuss the nature of prejudice and cultural divides and challenge our assumptions about them.
But since Corey's chosen to write in third person limited point of view, all these characters who supposedly don't attach strong meaning to race (unless it's a phenotype they find sexy) keep going on and on and on about physical markers they shouldn't care about.
 
@Hamlet Hmm, OK. I still think a tag simply named is going to be misused a lot.
 
...and that just makes it all the more glaringly obvious that they never comment on whiteness.
Anyway, must dash as well. ttfn
 
user15026
@Randal'Thor I feel like it might end up like Arqade's tag and be used in places that don't make sense (Glitch being a now-defunct game, but the tag gets used incorrectly a lot)
 
@Ash Exactly.
 
@BESW What, they do? Man, I gotta re-read that book... unfortunately our middle-of-nowhere library is unlikely to be much help...
@Randal'Thor Ah, I see
 
12:07 AM
@BESW a point that needs to be addressed in any answer: I have a hard time taking anyone who claims to be subverting race when they're writing in a way that supports/recreates the racial categories they claim to be subverting.
OK, now I really need to head out
 
(and everyone knows that the real reason my question was down-voted is that everyone hates me :-P)
jk
"Even if I had googled it, I wouldn't necessarily recognize the title anyway. All I have to go on is fragmented memories from years ago. I know Riker's answer is correct because the book excerpts look familiar, but a Google search wouldn't necessarily help." -kristan
 
12:25 AM
0
Q: Why does Pinocchio's nose grow?

yannisIn chapter 3 of The Adventures of Pinocchio, Geppetto shapes the piece of wood Mastro Cherry had given him into a marionette. When he creates the nose, it starts growing uncontrollably: After the eyes, Geppetto made the nose, which began to stretch as soon as finished. It stretched and stret...

 
12:47 AM
@kristan Now I feel bad :-(
 
about my trouble digging out the scanner?
 
Yes.
 
It's not that big of a deal, at least now I have it on hand if I need to scan anything else...
 
I know you must have gone to some trouble making that text ... tbh, I was quite doubtful from the beginning about the whole idea of getting handwriting for an ad. It just doesn't seem to fit with the overall look of SE.
 
but I was a bit excited about my 5 seconds of fame :-P
@Randal'Thor I've thought of trying again with a thinner pen, I had thought maybe a thicker one would help visibility, but maybe not.
(though frankly I don't find that computer font all that readable either; especially the word "book". I keep reading it as "boax" at first glance)
 
12:54 AM
@kristan Yeah, agreed.
What do you think of the font I used to make this?
 
@Randal'Thor It's readable enough, though the aesthetics aren't my favorite (that's just my personal opinion, of course)
My personal favorite font is "Segoe Script".
afk
 
@kristan Like that? ^
 
@Randal'Thor add a few mfers in that, and you can replace the Johnson with Jackson
 
@Randal'Thor Yeah, that looks pretty good, and certainly readable.
(not as good as my eminently awesome handwriting, but okay :-P)
 
1:24 AM
@Randal'Thor It doesn't have the personal touch of the real handwriting, but it does look nice. I think it's a suitable ad.
But I still hijacked the handwritten one for my own telling-about-the-site purposes, I hope that's okay :-P
 
You can't hijack your own work :-P
 
Well, it wasn't my ad design
 
1:45 AM
@Mithrandir how long did it take from you getting the email to becoming a mod?
@Randal'Thor mind if I steal that for the rpg.se ad
 
@Riker Oh hey, did you get an offer from Veg? :-D
 
yes
 
@Riker I had a different tagline in mind for RPG ...
@Riker Congrats!
 
@Randal'Thor which was?
@Randal'Thor thanks <sheepish grin>
 
in Literature Community Ad, Feb 16 at 1:13, by Rand al'Thor
> "A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies. The man who never reads lives only one." -- George RR Martin
 
1:51 AM
do you have a image with that on it?
 
I don't know much about role-playing games, but that strikes me as fairly appropriate?
 
it's more or less appropriate yeah
do you have either a blank image of the bg minus the text, an image with that text, or the capability to create either?
 
8
A: Let's design an ad for our site

BESWBased on my thoughts shared last week, here's an ad! The text version uses handwriting kindly contributed by our own kristan. And a blank version for folks to customise with their own tagline: (Click through each ad to get a double-size version.)

 
cool, thanks
@Randal'Thor how'd you add the text to taht ad?
and what font? I have a couple good ones, but yours is nice
 
@Riker Gimme a minute.
 
1:53 AM
kk
 
Oh, actually, yes, I do have an image already.
 
nice work
 
So I don't have to put the text on right now.
 
so mind if I steal that for the rpg.se ad?
 
@Riker Using MS Paint. I'm low-tech :-P
 
1:55 AM
lol
 
@Riker Woohoo!
</steeler>
 
2:06 AM
lel
 
@Hamlet White guy alert:
> His pale skin was bright with sweat, his carrot-orange hair pulled back in a frizzed ponytail. It was strange watching him. His large head was made larger by his hair, and the thinness of his body made him seem more like something from a children’s program than an actual man.
Notice that, from the perspective of an Earther (who is probably of Chinese descent), his grew-up-in-low-gravity physique makes him seem inhuman.
On the other hand, a Russian-extracted Methodist meets a man with no physical description but the name Jin Ichigawa, and assumes (rightly!) that his family is Buddhist.
(Contemporarily, I believe "Ichigawa" is more of an Indonesian (Muslim) and Filipino (Christian) spelling; in Japan (Shinto, Buddhism) it'd more likely be Ishikawa.)
 
The Relativity of Wrong, by Isaac Asimov - interesting essay on scientific theories in response to a literature student.
 
2:27 AM
I wonder what ancient Pacific Islanders thought about the shape of the world.
 
@BESW Have you read Terry Pratchett's Nation, by any chance?
 
I have not.
 
You definitely should. I really enjoyed it, and some people say it's Pratchett's best book. I'd also be interested to hear what you in particular think of it, since a lot of it is about Pacific islander culture.
adds to re-read list
 
[pokes around looking for Pasifika responses to it]
Aaaand question asked.
 
2:45 AM
1
Q: What is the Pasifika response to "Nation"?

BESWPratchett's "Nation" was recommended to me because it depicts an alternate reality version of Pasifika cultures, faiths, and traditions. A quick glance at Wikipedia tells me it's got cannibals and reveals that a Pasifika culture is the forgotten remnant of a culture which was once successful by W...

 
Seriously though, if the Wiki article's right that's some epic 1910s-1930s Robert E Howard, Edgar Rice Burroughs levels of noble savage which might have been understandable if he'd written it in the 60s.
 
3:09 AM
@Napoleon I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this, since you have experience with such things.
 
3:31 AM
2
Q: Reward system for answering unanswered questions?

Rand al'ThorOne of Literature's biggest problems, as can be seen even from the Area 51 stats, is the unanswered questions. At the time of writing, we have 138 questions with no upvoted or accepted answers, out of only 575 questions total.1 A very significant proportion of our questions just aren't getting an...

 
3:43 AM
I know people aren't thrilled about identification questions, so I figured I'd ask here. I think the title was something like "Ordinary people" or "Common people". Not fantasy or sci-fi. Drama book, multiple main characters. At least part of it takes place in a hospital where we are warned early on that someone will die. A pathologist's girlfriend develops cancer of the knee. A rhesus test is not properly formed on a pregnant mother, leading to complications from blood mismatch with her baby.
 
Sounds like great fodder for a main-site id question.
 
It's a fairly well-known one. I remember mentioning it to my mother after reading it and getting a comment along the lines of that she'd read it, as had most people of a certain era.
It's one of those tip-of-my-tongue things too...
Eh, I'll submit it. Hamlet won't be happy, but he'll live. :)
 
4:36 AM
0
Q: Drama, probably set in a hospital, where we know early on (from the blurb?) that someone is going to die due to a doctor's mistake

Sean DugganI read this in the 90s, but I remember that, when I mentioned it to my mother, she commented that it was a fairly well-known book which she herself had read when she was younger (she would have been in her late 30s when she made that comment, so she probably would have read it in the 60s). Most o...

 
Wow. Half an hour.
 
4:56 AM
@Riker a couple hours after I responded. I responded two days after I got the email, though, so.... Also, china aromatic! :D (aka congratulations)
 
 
3 hours later…
7:56 AM
@muru Clickbait comes at the expense of accuracy or quality. Sensational but accurate titles are not clickbait, and are considered desirable by some Stacks.
 
8:06 AM
@BESW since the q title appears in related qs and linked qs without tags, not being able to tell what the q is about is decreasing the quality and becoming clickbait.
 
Again, that's a value and associated protocol which changes from Stack to Stack. To the best of my knowledge this Stack hasn't yet settled on one.
Are you going to add "In The Hunger Games" to "How did they plan the conspiracy against the Capitol given mass surveilance?"
 
@BESW Capitol adds a fair amount of context
 
It could easily be a Skeptics.se question.
 
What provides any context at alll in your title?
 
Nothing. I'm not saying it does. I'm implying that you edited mine, and not "Is Simon epileptic?" or "What is the greater meaning of the thrush?" for reasons having nothing to do with context.
 
8:11 AM
Oh, in that case, my apologies.
However, there are fairly limited number of works to which either title could apply
 
I made a good-faith attempt at a catchy title based on my experience with other sites which like that sort of thing, and my experience with this site that I don't have to spell out everything in the title; I can let tags and body do the heavy lifting.
I got accused of clickbaiting.
If there's a lit.se meta about title contexts, please link me to it so I can learn this site's protocols.
If there's not, please don't go around accusing people of clickbait because their title doesn't meet your personal standards.
I don't have any problem with the edit itself, it's quite fair.
 
@BESW sorry, but if I feel a title is clickbait, I will say so.
If you feel that's not nice, do flag.
While I'm a mod on chat, I'm a regular user on lit.
 
user61230
@muru Not all not-Nice things are flaggable.
 
user61230
There's a lot of grey area between "positive contribution" and "unfriendly enough to delete."
 
@Emrakul this was in a edit summary, so only a mod can change it, hence the suggestion to flag
 
8:19 AM
I don't know of any way to flag an edit summary, and I don't want to escalate it to formal channels anyway. I just thought one of us was perhaps working with some knowledge or context the other didn't have and wanted to clear it up, and it escalated from there.
 
Sorry, no, but it's just a result of continued disappointment in the titles common on SFF, Arqade and others.
 
So I'll just say that I find "clickbait" a needlessly antagonistic (and ironically ineffective) way to say what you seem to have been trying to communicate.
 
user61230
8:37 AM
 
user61230
An interesting example of authorial intent being horribly off-base.
 
user61230
An investment banker placed this bronze statue of a girl standing up to the Wall Street bull in Manhattan today.
 
user61230
The creator's message was supposed to push for women to stand up to and take part in male-dominated investment boards. The message that's actually received is, obviously, women standing up against capitalist corruption, and the de-construction of those very investment boards.
 
Beautiful.
 
9:05 AM
@Riker: BTW, all of the meta flairs on the vegetarianism mod nominations are broken....
You managed to do the main site, but the metas are broken
 
user61230
9:17 AM
Can I borrow this chat's Google-fu briefly?
 
Hm?
 
user61230
I'm looking for a quote about writing. It goes something along the lines of, "I edit four times: once for [something], once for [something], once for [something], and once to make it look like an accident."
 
user61230
I have no recollection of who wrote it, and only have vague gists of recollections for what the other three somethings are.
 
Jan 25 at 1:36, by BESW
> I write every paragraph four times - once to get my meaning down, once to put in anything I have left out, once to take out anything that seems unnecessary, and once to make the whole thing sound as if I had only just thought of it. -Margery Allingham
 
user61230
That's the one!
 
9:22 AM
Margery Allingham is one of the best murder mystery writers of all time, and during her life was accorded the glowingly high critical praise of "practically not a mystery writer at all."
 
user61230
That could be either positive or negative critique, depending.
 
user61230
Mostly on the attitude of the speaker. But given historical context I'm going to place my money on negative.
 
(ie, her novels addressed issues and themes that were considered incompatible with the potboiler nature and low-brow audience of mystery stories.)
(Which is one of the reasons she wrote murder mysteries: they weren't expected to be insightful or eloquent or to contain social commentary, so she could get away with insightful social commentary that'd be scandalously controversial in other genres of the time.)
Allingham also wrote murder mysteries because the structural restrictions appealed to her:
> Allingham regarded the mystery novel as a box with four sides - "a Killing, a Mystery, an Enquiry and a Conclusion with an element of satisfaction in it." Once inside the box, she felt secure: the genre gave her the discipline she felt she needed, while allowing her imagination full play to provide the "Element of Satisfaction."
 
user61230
Interesting. I'm going to need to think about this more.
 
user61230
10:07 AM
Struggling to pick my next good nonfiction book. I just finished Community Development as a Process.
 
user61230
I already own Mistakes Were Made (but Not By Me), Undoing Border Imperialism, Future Shock, and One, Two, Three, Infinity. But picking is haaaard...
 
Toss a coin...
 
user61230
Fantasy's Othering Fetish is also on my list, but I'd have to get a copy of it first.
 
user61230
Hrrrrrm. Good point. [rummages for dice]
 
Waiting for the Graphic Design and Apple Suggested Edit reviewers to pick it up...
 
user61230
10:10 AM
Hey, that's your fault for trying to be helpful!
 
:P
Waiting for the SFF metaers to pick it up, also...
 
user61230
I rolled Mistakes Were Made, but I don't like that option. I'm reading Future Shock, instead.
 
user61230
Thanks!
 
user61230
@Mithrandir Oh, crap. Is this something Puzzling needs to do?
 
@Emrakul Possibly.
 
user61230
10:14 AM
54 entries over the site's history aren't on Imgur or HTTPS.
 
user61230
Less than I expected.
 
0
Q: Why is the study of Philology in decline?

Matt ThrowerPhilology is a branch of English academia, described on Wikipedia as "a combination of literary criticism, history, and linguistics". I am no expert, but its central premise appears to be that these three subjects are essentially indivisible for a proper understanding of a text. Tolkien, in his...

 
@Emrakul How... puzzling.
Want me to copy my post, without the tags part?
@Emrakul Idea: Include it in this.
 
user61230
@Mithrandir It should be its own thing, b/c it's not related to tags. Gimme a second to think and review.
 
I included both tags and images on SFF; can do the same on Puzzling.
 
user61230
10:17 AM
I think I'd rather leave the tag cleanup post the way it is, since there's no harm in doing that slowly.
 
user61230
I'd rather not rush tag cleanup for the sake of image editing.
 
> Failed to upload image; imgur is rejecting the request
...why....
 
user61230
@Mithrandir Do you happen to know how soon the change is going through network-wide?
 
user61230
Oh, 6-8 weeks. Ah, well.
 
...For real 6-8 weeks :P
 
10:20 AM
 
user61230
I'm gonna make a post quickly that's a little more targeted. Getting all those edits done in the same day would be nice, because it'll break the front page.
 
user61230
So it's going to be more of a "let's pick a day" post.
 
@BESW That does not describe my problem in any way at all. 1.) I'm not using Windows. 2.) I'm not using Firefox. So... :P
 
Have you tried upgrading your ram?
 
...o_o
 
user61230
10:25 AM
 
@Emrakul [queues multiple downloads]
 
user61230
@BESW You don't have enough RAM to complete this download!
 
Sounds like @BESW needs a sheep.
 
user61230
@Mithrandir borscht
 
10:34 AM
@Emrakul Now I've got to think of an answer...
 
user61230
I actually don't think I'm quite ready to declare I'm starting Future Shock. My fiction reading queue is much longer than my nonfiction queue, and there's quite a bit of good reading I'm quietly neglecting.
 
user61230
Hmm.
 
@Emrakul Lust Over Pendle!
 
user61230
It's on my list, actually! Though, not my priority list... I'm not quite looking for HPverse stuff right now, I think.
 
Summer in Orcus!
 
user61230
10:40 AM
It's definitely on my general list, though.
 
(Reminder that your non-fiction list includes "Who Is Writing the Future" and "Century of Light.")
 
> You earned a new privilege! Thanks to your efforts, you can ...
Fun!
> See votes, expandable usercard
 
I love the expandable usercard.
 
Oh... that boring privilege
@BESW You do? Is the least exciting privilege...
 
user61230
Enqueued + Priority pg. 1, Priority pg. 2. Enqueued just contains stuff I have on hand. Priority hasn't been cleaned in a while, but it's stuff that particularly piqued my interest.
 
10:44 AM
I should do something with it here, I suppose.
@Emrakul Gosh but I recognise a lot of those.
 
And "See votes" isn't really a privilege. The only reason it exists is to limit the somewhat expensive query that gets the votes to a small subset of users (the vast majority of accounts never reaches the required rep level)
 
...but no Who Is Writing the Future or Century of Light.
@yannis It also teaches users that the aggregate count is more important than the individual votes which make it up. There's some very strong low-key teaching embedded in the privilege progression.
 
user61230
@BESW Under Philosophy
 
user61230
Next to The Analects
 
All right then.
(That's a lotta Gaiman.)
What software are you using for that?
 
user61230
10:51 AM
 
Ahah.
 
user61230
And, yeah. In my defense, I pick up a lot of Gaiman from friend groups. Number of tags is number of personal recommendations.
 
user61230
And also in my defense, I enjoy what (little) I've read of Gaiman.
 
Ah, that'd do it.
The more Gaiman I'm exposed to, the more samey it feels. A little Gaiman is great and feels like he does new exciting things each time! A lot of Gaiman... well, you'd better like what he likes.
(When Gaiman and Moffat teamed up to do Doctor Who, I nearly wept.)
 
user61230
That's reasonable. I feel the same way about a number of authors I've nominally liked, e.g. Sanderson.
 
user61230
10:55 AM
It's also worth noting that there's a bias on my priority list towards stuff that's been there for a while.
 
Gaiman's not as bad as Adams, though.
 
user61230
Douglas Adams?
 
Yeah.
 
user61230
I'd agree.
 
user61230
It's hard to convince me to read multiple books by the same author, which is part of the problem. I feel like there's opportunity cost in exposure to style.
 
10:57 AM
The only way I can ever really enjoy a whole Douglas story (not series, just one story) without getting fed up at the repetitious gimmickery is when he's writing for Doctor Who. Tom Baker can make Douglas dialogue work.
 
user61230
Why read one author twice, when in the same span I could gain access to two minds and two thoughts?
 
user61230
@BESW I enjoyed THHGTTG by itself. I enjoyed the other five books in the sort of passive, low-effort reading sort of way. When I got to The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul, I put it down, and it remains one of the only books I've ever set aside after starting.
 
I read the Hitchhiker series because I kept expecting it to get better. People kept going on about how inventive and clever it was.
 
user61230
I enjoyed Adams' sardonicism when I read it last, but I think I was a lot more cynical-negative at the time.
 
On reflection, Gordon Korman may have spoilt me for life on situational/chaotic comedy.
And yeah, dismal sardonic cynicism is really hard to get past me.
 
user61230
11:07 AM
But yeah, the Enqueued list is generally going to contain stuff I'm more likely to read in the short-term.
 
2
Q: Do we need tags for literature-related or specialist academic disciplines?

Matt ThrowerI just put up a question about a relatively obscure branch of literature study, philology. It didn't have a tag and I have the rep to make one, so I did. However I was unsatisfied by some of the other tags available but wasn't so sure they were needed/relevant - so I thought I'd ask the community...

 
SHouldn't you be asleep @Emrakul based on what your meta.puzz said?
 
I do horrible things to @Emrakul's sleep cycles.
 
user61230
Bah, sleep cycles. Just another social construct.
 
user61230
I actually do need sleep, though, incidentally.
 
user61230
11:16 AM
Goodnight!
 
11:49 AM
@yannis Quite a few of the privileges are boring. Like protecting questions, or suggesting tag synonyms.
@Emrakul Oh, fun. I see you're yet another Sanderson fan ;-)
Neverwhere is a fun, quick read. The TV series is also pretty good (sacrilege!). I read the book first and still managed to appreciate the TV series, which says a lot.
 
The TV series requires a certain mindset, not unlike watching Classic Who.
 
I think it helps to be at least somewhat familiar with London (for both the book and the TV series).
 
Yeah, it's very place-driven.
 
@BESW People rave about how great The Doctor's Wife is, but I don't get it. For me it's one of those "bleh, Moffat doing cool stuff without caring much about previous canon" episodes, and is on my Wouldn't Rewatch list.
@BESW I have a thing about place-driven literature. Especially British, because those are the places I'm most familiar with.
 
@Randal'Thor It's got some good performances and some clever answers to certain long-standing fan speculation which nobody who doesn't know about the fan speculation will care about.
 
11:56 AM
I love it when you can read fiction set in a place and then actually go there and it's just like the way it's described.
 
Hmm. I think I may have to ask a story-id question in order to recommend a book to you.
 
This is almost certainly part of why William Horwood's The Stonor Eagles is still high up my list of favourite books ever. I've lived both on a northwest Scottish island and in Kent, and I have some familiarity with Norway, so a book set very realistically in a combination of Skye, Deal, and Romsdal had me sold.
 
I have wanted to get into Sanderson and have multiple of his books, including special editions on my shelf, I just haven't gotten around to him yet.
 
Also, Horwood has an incredible gift for writing realistic-sounding legends - possibly the best author I've read in that respect, and I say this as a Tolkien fan. Both the legend of Haforn in The Stonor Eagles, and the legend of Beornamund in Hyddenworld, had me searching the internet to find out if they were REAL legends.
 
0
Q: Novel about time travel through period accuracy

BESWA novel was described to me some time ago, in which people traveled to other parts of history by living in carefully designed boxes (of which there was a whole building) which were perfectly period-accurate. I believe the main story was about traveling to late 1800s New York, and involved a histo...

Also, yey new tag!
 
12:14 PM
Bet you someone will come along and burninate it.
Anyway I think I've found the novel, @BESW.
 
I edited to use a more specific word than "box" and add a bit more visual of the building because I'm pretty sure it's accurate.
 
0
Q: Novel about time travel through period accuracy

BESWA novel was described to me some time ago, in which people traveled to other parts of history by living in carefully designed cubicles (of which there was a whole building, all of them jammed up next to each other with a walkway over the top for observation through one-way glass ceilings) which w...

 
@Randal'Thor That's it!
 
@Randal'Thor Why?
 
And you thought it wasn't detailed enough.
 
12:23 PM
@BESW I've deleted my original comment and upvoted the question :-)
@Benjamin Well, we'll see.
 
> visited 50 days, 50 consecutive
Oh, hey, half fanatic
 
@yannis Yeah, I messed up and visited two minutes after the day change on the Weekend, so I am back to two.
 
true fanatics write scripts to visit the site for them.
 
(which is why a gold visits badge isn't such a great idea)
 
12:30 PM
@yannis I don't believe that. Is wouldn't be an expensive query then. They'd just put the upvote/downvote pair in the original HTML content hidden, and make javascript to reveal it. I agree with BESW.
 
0
Q: How do The New York Times bestseller lists work?

BenjaminThe New York Times, a leading newspaper in the United States provides bestseller lists in their The New York Times Book Review. These lists are very influential in what is read by a large number of people because books that reach the bestseller list are often marketed as such and therefore sell m...

 
@b_jonas "expensive query" is the stated reason.
 
@Bookworm To reinforce established patterns of acceptable popular literature, mostly.
 
I don't know if it's true anymore, and I do agree with BESW that teaching people to not obsess over voting specifics is a good thing.
 
@yannis Sounds like an excuse. Where is that stated? scifi.stackexchange.com/help/privileges/established-user doesn't say so.
 
12:34 PM
@b_jonas See prev link. And I do agree it's stupid. It's also stupidly easy to bypass.
 
@yannis What? How is it easy to bypass?
 
@b_jonas btw, Jeff changed his answer later on: meta.stackexchange.com/a/37127/162704
 
I mean, viewing the rep changes of the user can often reveal how many votes they got for a question, but that's not easy; the archive dump and the data.stackexchange.com dump show downvotes, but that's not easy either.
@yannis Ah! Now that looks better.
 
@b_jonas Kinda like how it's easy to pick a lock if you've got picks and have practiced with that kind of lock, I'm guessing. As someone who fumbles his keys in this metaphor, I have no clue.
 
I think it's a good idea to show only vote total, but I think the DB organization stuff is just an excuse for that.
 
12:37 PM
@b_jonas The SE api does return the info. I'm guessing that means that the query isn't that expensive anymore (if it ever was, that is).
 
@yannis Fun fact: The Workplace has more Great Question badges than Fanatic badges, and over ten times as many Famous Questions, but only a single Inquisitive badge.
 
@yannis Ah. So they do actually reveal that stuff. Like the info of who has starred a chat message.
It's just hidden in the interface.
 
It seems like most of their hot questions are from one-shot wonders, and not so many people have a long-term dedication to the site.
 
Yeah, badgers are nice gamification, but they're more nudges to show us what good behaviour looks like: the badger list is basically a "what to do to be a good citizen" list.
 
When can I visit a private beta site? Is there a network rep limit for that privilage or something?
 
12:41 PM
@b_jonas Not anymore.
 
@yannis So I can just visit any private beta? In what sense are they private then? Can I not post or something?
 
It used to be that you could only enter private beta if you had committed to the A51 proposal. Right now, I think anyone can simply login.
It's private in the sense that unregistered users (including search bots) don't have access to the content.
 
I'm asking because I'm trying to look at the DevOps private beta, to figure out what topics it covers, especially about topics I care about.
@yannis Thanks.
Obviously it's a bit early for that, while they're still figuring out the scope.
 
@Randal'Thor Not sure about that. Great / Famous Questions are usually by people who typically have significantly more answers than questions.
Inquisitive is a very hard badge to earn if you don't ask questions... Except the one or two that are interesting enough, that is.
 
And you get the tautology badge for earning the tautology badge.
 
12:47 PM
Now about Literature Beta itself, when is it time to start the discussion on the per-site customizable parts of the help center and tour, especially the parts defining the on-topic and off-topic stuff, and the example question?
 
Is there a reason?
Are we getting a significant amount of off topic questions? If not, what's the point of clarifying the help center?
 
@yannis No reason. We can keep the daisy spraying for now if you wish.
@Randal'Thor Yes, but I've already found I could visit the site, thanks.
I just thought Icould do that because I have network rep or something.
 
@yannis Do we need to wait for things to be broken before setting up a framework to define how not to break them?
@BESW Image not found
 
@Randal'Thor Yes.
 
12:50 PM
@Randal'Thor Boo.
 
The basic framework is already there, the network wide guidelines.
It's not like it's complete anarchy.
 
@Randal'Thor That is sort of a common theme underlying much of Stack curation philosophy, but it's also something we seem to have to re-learn for each subsystem on each new site.
 
Other than that, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
 
For the help and tour, basically: what unique things have we learnt from our experience with this particular site which seem so crucial to using the site it'd be good to put them in front of new users?
 
@BESW I'm not saying we're ready to put anything there yet. But it'd be nice to have some guidelines there before we start getting inundated with off-topic questions. At the very least, we can then say to new users who get their questions closed, "well, it is off-topic - look, it says so in the help pages".
 
12:55 PM
Topicality is a unique thing we're learning about which is crucial to using the site, yes.
So common misapprehensions about topicality would be a reasonable thing to add.
 
Is there anything other than book recommendations that is unequivocally off topic?
 
Inconsistent tagging.
 
And aren't book recommendations unequivocally off topic only because we know they are more harm than good? (see prev lit site)
That said, I certainly wouldn't mind if we declared all mythology & folklore questions off topic...
(not for any reason other than I want those on Myth.SE and not here)
 
@yannis Flagged as site rivalry :-P
 
Augh, don't give me flashbacks to coffee.se beta.
 
1:03 PM
I've been one of the strongest voices against any sort of redirection of sci-fi and fantasy questions from here to SFF.SE.
@BESW VTC, duplicate of Seasoned Advice.
ducks
 
Yes. Be jealous of your site, and all that.
That said, I won't think twice before offloading legal questions from Politics to Law.
 
I'm not 100% certain how they fare on Law, but the answers legal questions were getting on Politics were abhorrent (even if highly upvoted).
 
On the other hand, RPG.SE once had someone try convince us that it was unethical to have any kind of legal question be on topic there at all.
 
I don't know about unethical, but legal advice in answers can be highly problematic. Especially on a site like Politics, with our endemic partisan voting.
 
1:09 PM
gasp, shock
 
@yannis I definitely wouldn't want to moderate Politics. You're a brave soul.
 
"+1 This is highly illegal, but who cares, we both support the same candidate! Yay!"
@Randal'Thor It's mostly purging (very) long comment chains.
 
@yannis You're doing good works.
...oh, sweet Luna in the Moon. Corey's gone and given The Expanse an Asian antagonist on a mass-murdering rampage to restore her family's honor.
I'm used to sci-fi being tone-deaf and blind to all kinds of deeply problematic themes that its tropes tend to reinforce. It's a balancing act to find books I can enjoy in spite of their flaws, but I'm willing to put in the effort because it's so rare to find sci-fi that manages to avoid them entirely. But this is just getting ridiculous.
 
1:32 PM
@Randal'Thor As someone who defended its independence originally... I agree now. It doesn't have enough fuel. The last question on its front page is a few days over a month old and that's concerning.
@BESW :'(
 
@doppelgreener "It doesn't have enough fuel" - maybe it needs more caffeine ;-)
 
@Randal'Thor More caffeine would just get people jittery editing things all the time! They've got enough of the stuff!
 
@doppelgreener And at Beer, Wine & Spirits people keep getting suspended for going on drunken rants.
 
@Randal'Thor for real? wow
 
1:42 PM
@BESW that's brilliant
 
@doppelgreener No, not for real. I was just extending the caffeine jokes from Coffee.
 
@Randal'Thor oh phew.
i was thinking i'd enjoy having 10k there just to read all the deleted rants.
 
Though there was this one guy on SFF ... each weekend he used to get drunk, troll chat and meta, get suspended, rinse and repeat.
 
Diminishing returns can't have let that last long.
 
No, he ended up on a longer suspension and then hasn't made much trouble since.
@Bookworm I could probably put together a decent answer to this if I had enough time ...
 
1:51 PM
@b_jonas I'm going to be discussing it with the other mods.
 
@Mithrandir You may get a PMYP ;-)
 
Pretty Mediocre Youtube Pony?
 
Patience, Mithrandir - You Promised.
 
"I'm going to be discussing it with the other mods" is also my standard response when I'm absolutely not going to be doing anything about is ;)
You learn fast, young padawan
 
@Randal'Thor: About the unanswered, I was thinking something along the lines of 'answer 5 old questions (i.e., unanswered for a month+). Each answer must get a score of 5(?) and at least 2 accepted.' Then they're eligible for the bounty.
That provides incentive for high-quality answers.
 
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