Discussion on answer by Ben: I feel like male professors don't feel comfortable taking me as a student. How should I address this problem?

Discussion on answer by Ben: I feel l

Imported from a comment discussion on https://academia.stackexchange.com/questions/169953/i-feel-like-male-professors-dont-feel-comfortable-taking-me-as-a-student-how-s/169975#169975
1347d ago – Ian Sudbery
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Jun 15, 2021 10:02
@henning and where I live, we live in a world where even the hint of impropriety can lead to accusations which can lead to career ending consequences - even if nothing was done wrong. Why do people find it hard to believe that men might have just reason to be uncomfortable? I can - and do - act professionally... but I also know it only takes one accusation. The world TODAY is different than the world 5 or 10 years ago. How could someone learn in adolescence when the world is changing around them? My points: It's not as easy as "just work together" and it's not as easy as "you should know".
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Ben
Jun 15, 2021 10:02
That is a ludicrous straw-man: I have not claimed that men are unable to treat women as people, or anything close to that. (The discomfort and awkwardness some people feel around attractive people also afflicts females in my experience.) Your pretensions to the contrary notwithstanding, I don't think I require your reading suggestions; why don't you read up on not making idiotic straw-man arguments out of what other people say instead.
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Jun 15, 2021 10:02
@Sursula If someone has trouble talking to another person because they find that person attractive, they are not "unable to treat women as people." They are behaving differently because they're nervous. And yes, like all people, women do sometimes have to do their best to deal with the shortcomings of others (including men). Of course, the men in question still have a responsibility to fulfill their roles as mentors, teachers, etc. But the fact that they get nervous alone does not immediately make them whatever horrible image you seem to have in your head.
Jun 15, 2021 10:02
@Sursula as for your comment... "it even reflects negatively on your own gender" is fairly blatant sexism. People having opinions (read: stereotypes) about genders as a whole is precisely the problem
Ben
Jun 15, 2021 10:02
Your opinion is (evidently) not humble at all.
Ben
Jun 15, 2021 10:02
@Sursula: Same goes. If you are going to use the you-can't-know-what-it's-like-to-be-a-woman argument then by that standard you have no standing at all to comment on the lived experience of men and the social pressures that operate on them. Like most asinine identity politics arguments, it yields a stalemate.
Ben
Jun 15, 2021 10:02
@Sursula: Yes, it should be, but that is precisely the nature of a shortcoming --- it is a deficiency relative to what is expected of you. Throughout my answer (which is highly sympathetic to the female complainant) I have said repeatedly that the behaviours of the men being described are shortcomings. I have merely noted that some men find it difficult to develop this aspect of their social skills. Your apoplectic reaction is not in proportion to this innocuous observation.
Jun 15, 2021 10:02
@Sursula "your learning period should be over" Why would you think there's ever a point in a persons career where "learning is over"? Does that mean that men who got to the level of manager 20 years ago and learned what they know are done learning? What a silly comment... I guess we shouldn't try to teach those guys anything. They are DONE!
Jun 15, 2021 10:02
@henning while you can learn control, we live in a weird time where, for the first time in history, men and women are working together and have to figure out how to get along on a day to day basis. In the grand scheme of evolution, it's been not even an eyeblink since women gained the freedom to work outside the home. From feminine products to running water... They aren't tied to "home". How exactly can someone learn in adolescence how to work on a day to day basis when we, as a society, don't know how to do it properly yet?
Jun 15, 2021 10:02
@WernerCD where I live, most men manage to be professional around women. It doesn't exceed their individual capabilities.