Rabbinic Torah differs from the Torah as understood by Moses

Conversation started May 29, 2013 at 16:19.

Ali

May 29, 2013 16:19

The distinction is that we dont consider fatwas as Quran hadith , whereas the rabbis saying are considered to be torah

(Rabbinic))Torah=Torah+Talmud(sanhedrin+rambam+rashi+....)

Daniel

@Ali Ok, but that is a much subtler difference than you seem to think it is

Either way, they are totally binding

And either way, the consequences for violating decrees are less severe than for violating the original law

Torah, in addition to it's meaning as the book of law, is also a word with a much broader meaning

Unlike Quran which (AFAIK) is only the specific book

Ali

Infact I also stumbled upon a tag in mi.yodeya where it literally said something like rabbi framing laws

Daniel

The word "Torah" is sort of a word that means Jewish learning

@Ali Yes, the rabbis created laws. Those are "rabbinic laws"

They don't have the same authority as the written Torah

but we still follow them

The thing is that you don't seem to understand the distinction between rabbinic laws and Torah laws

Like separating meat and milk, as we have discussed in the past

Ali

@Daniel I do understand framing decrees or judgements but laws?

Daniel

That is a Torah law, not a rabbinic one

@Ali What don't you understand about it?

We give the rabbis the authority to create laws

Maybe you don't like it

But that's just how it is

That's Judaism

Ali

May 29, 2013 16:28

Thats just Rabbinic Judaism

Daniel

@Ali Yes, that's what we follow today

Ali

Karaites , samaritans and many others have a different take on this and are aligned with the Islamic standpoint

Daniel

@Ali So?

They don't really exist today

except in very small numbers

Ali

@Daniel You gave the rabbis power to create laws , which is akin to adding laws

Daniel

@Ali I didn't give them that power. The Torah gives them that power

Charles Koppelman

May 29, 2013 16:31

@Ali - Are you trying to debate a foundation of rabbinic Judaism, then?

Ali

In Islam we have fatwas, they are based on Quran hadith they dont make new laws totally unrelated or to do "fencing"

Daniel

Karaites and samaritans disagree with that interpretation

That's fine

They don't follow normative Judaism

Charles Koppelman

That's a fine thing to do, but mi.yodeya is the wrong forum for debating it

Daniel

@Ali Ok. We don't follow Islam, though. Our rules are different

Ali

But there is a prohibition to add new laws and some rabbis have done it under the garb of "fencing"

so the core law is being violated

Daniel

May 29, 2013 16:33

@Ali That's your interpretation

Those rabbis know more about it than you do, though

Trust me, they know that you're not allowed to add to the Torah

There is no prohibition on making decrees and calling them decrees

Ali

@Daniel I find no problem in giving decrees\fatwas which are important

But they should be derived from the revelation book

Daniel

@Ali Frankly, we don't care what you have a problem with and what you don't

You are making up rules of Judaism that don't exist

We don't follow Islam's rules about these things

We follow our own

Ali

So who makes up the rules?

Daniel

@Ali Nobody makes them up

They are found in the Torah

Ali

and who is authorized to make the rules

Daniel

May 29, 2013 16:39

@Ali Which rules?

Ali

the one you are refereing to

rules of Judaism

Daniel

@Ali The groundwork comes from the Written Torah

That's where we find the authority of the rabbis to make decrees

Ali

decrees is fine as I said its the fencing which violates the commandment to not add laws

Daniel

@Ali I say it doesn't violate that commandment

So there

you can't argue with me

because I didn't give a reason

That's the way you are arguing

2 hours later…

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

May 29, 2013 18:13

@daniel Mikwoh is custom now a days. Also the decree for a Baal Keri to not recite torah or anything like that by 3zra is a "fatwa" in his time as seen in the gamoro which says it was his time. Mikwoh is not needed to Daven just minhag

Daniel

@MoriDoweedhYaAgob You are talking about men, then?

MoriDoweedhYaAgob

Yea

Daniel

Then I agree

I was confused becaues the part of the paragraph that I thought you were referencing said that Mikveh for women was added by Ezra

Conversation ended May 29, 2013 at 18:16.

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